Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Darky-Sama]

Oh, I do something like that combo as well. But instead of dash attacking, I just walk up to them, when they slip, downsmash, jab three times, they should hit the banana again, downsmash, jab three times.

I do love how ZSS's dash attack just pushes characters around the stage where she wants them if you sweetspot it correctly.


I'm just trying to think of a way ZSS could use the bananas into an infinite now.

Trip -> Downsmash -> Throw the banana upwards -> Pivot Grab?
Then when the banana hits the ground, he'll slip on it and you can probably have time to repeat until the banana disappears.

(Just rambling on. Haven't tested, just a theory.)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So why is JC item toss > nB not legit? Is the time that he is stunned not enough to pick the banana as it is falling to rethrow?
If not, is it possible to
nana > nb > grab > let him slip > dsmash > run to behind the nana and pivot grab > let him slip > dsmash etc etc

 

[Nefarious B]

I was thinking the same thing a while back and tested a lot of stuff and to no avail with the infinite. I didn't test what you posted there, and although I have a feeling it's too slow to work I'll try to test it tomorrow.

 

[Darky-Sama]

I just tested out something.

Upthrow the banana -> Downsmash -> Run behind Diddy and Pivot Grab -> Pummel -> Release onto the banana -> Downsmash -> Running grab (should boost far enough to hit the banana again) -> Pummel -> Repeat.

That works. I did a good 80%+ before messing up at the edge on Final Destination.

I'm practicing on a computer, but if I'm correct, this should prove inescapable either way.

 

[Nefarious B]

What do you mean by running grab? I'm having a hard time seeing how a dash grab would cover the distance enough to pummel them onto the nanner again.

Edit: If that does work though, then the only issue is that you will never have the situation come up where you up throw the nanner then get a dsmash. However, you could take what I tested to improve it.

Fglidetoss to dsmash, reverse DA them onto the nanner, dsmash, "running grab", pummel repeat til you run outa stage.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So why is JC item toss > nB not legit? Is the time that he is stunned not enough to pick the banana as it is falling to rethrow?

this still

And does dair shockwave (not the initial hit, only the shockwave) jablock :o

Active boards are active

 

[Darky-Sama]

Better said, don't do the grab from the same place you were at. Get as close to Diddy as possible to release him onto the banana. But again, it's a computer.

I'm wondering if jabbing them onto the banana would be a bit more reliable? Then downsmashing again. Grabbing, it sorta poses as a limitation since you've literally got to be grabbing him so that ZSS is standing here he previously tripped. Even then, it comes close with him slipping again.

Edit: Also, yes, I know. For them to fall into that would just be pathetic. Unless you were to do it from a glidetoss or something, getting the banana right behind them is almost impossible otherwise.

 

[Nefarious B]

The issue with using jab being that he can PS it. Unless he's in the air from the dsmash animation, he may not be able to then.

xonar i'm not sure if it's the shockwave but check out shadow tactic's combo video, he has some footstool dair to dsmash combos that are legit.

And with JC item toss>nB, that works once but when someone is hit with a nanner from a throw, it pops up and it's high enough that I don't think you could catch and rethrow before the nB stun wears off. I'm gonna look at this thread tomorrow when im testing stuff so i will try that out for sure.

 

[Darky-Sama]

this still

And does dair shockwave (not the initial hit, only the shockwave) jablock :o

Active boards are active

I don't think there's enough reaction time to assure a nB after the throw. Takes too much time to come out, but I could be mistaken. Also, nB doesn't stun them long at all. Usually long enough to follow up with one of her attacks, but that would be pushing it, I think.

Also, Shockwave has knockback. I don't think it has locking/force getup properties. If it did, I would be abusing it.


Edit: No. Shadow Tactics did...
Footstool -> Fastfall -> Dsmash.

I was discussing it with him when he discovered the patch on ROB with it. xD
Unless he made another video, then meh. I haven't seen it then, I'll double check.

 

[Nefarious B]

At 3:20 here you have it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzFsquu3kaU

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't think there's enough reaction time to assure a nB after the throw. Takes too much time to come out, but I could be mistaken. Also, nB doesn't stun them long at all. Usually long enough to follow up with one of her attacks, but that would be pushing it, I think.
nB is faster then Dsmash, and Dsmash is legit.

Also, Shockwave has knockback. I don't think it has locking/force getup properties. If it did, I would be abusing it.
Ftilt has knockback and locks too

Edit: No. Shadow Tactics did...
Footstool -> Fastfall -> Dsmash.
if that was legit we'd have an infinite >_>

I was discussing it with him when he discovered the patch on ROB with it. xD
Unless he made another video, then meh. I haven't seen it then, I'll double check.

replies in red

 

[Darky-Sama]

Xonar: on ROB, it IS an infinite.

Nefarious B: Ah, the Ground Zero video. I don't think it was the shockwave that phased Bowser though. If you notice, he sorta got footstooled and the DAIR made him slide across the stage a bit. I don't think the shockwave hit him. o_O;


EDIT:

I take it back. The shockwave does cause it out of the footstool animation, when they bounce on the ground. Odd properties, I'm going to need to look into that too. Bah.

 

[Nefarious B]

Exactly why i brought up the vid because I didn't know myself, it is the weak hitbox though. IIRC the reason why ROB's is infinite is because his weird footstool animation allows him to avoid the weak hitbox of dair intirely, which in turn allows dair to cancel on the ground with no lag.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Come to think of it, how come the footstool infinite works on ROB but no one else?

And also, when I try to do Dair at any height, it stops my momentum and I suffer landing lag. Yet when you do the infinite it auto-cancels. WTF?

 

[Nefarious B]

It has to do with ROB's unique footstool animation, because he doesn't have legs or something dumb like that.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Xonar: on ROB, it IS an infinite.

that simplifies the infinite alot, I thought you had to cancel the footstool animation with a dair and be all flashy n ****.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAaOhH6UUg

Anyway, if shockwave jablocks I must test around with an infinite idea I have.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It's a very odd property, I can say that much.

It doesn't cause Dair to end laglessly, but since they're still hitting the ground and in a bouncing animation when you're coming up from the DAIR, you have time to punish their force get-up with a downsmash.

See, what I'm thinking, is that when you hit them with the DAIR as they're bouncing off the ground from the footstool (since it's not techable), that leaves them vulnerable for the DAIR to hit them non-sweet spotted.

That's like how Falcon can footstool and fastfall into a weak back air on ROB as he hits the ground and cause a force get up. It only works on characters with large hurtbox, where hitting them in a certain area wouldn't necessarily 'sweetspot' enough to cause knockback.

(Hope that didn't turn out confusing. Rofl)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's a very odd property, I can say that much.

It doesn't cause Dair to end laglessly, but since they're still hitting the ground and in a bouncing animation when you're coming up from the DAIR, you have time to punish their force get-up with a downsmash.
It does cause Dair to end laglessly, watch the vid.

See, what I'm thinking, is that when you hit them with the DAIR as they're bouncing off the ground from the footstool (since it's not techable), that leaves them vulnerable for the DAIR to hit them non-sweet spotted.
Dair doesnt hit ROB at all

That's like how Falcon can footstool and fastfall into a weak back air on ROB as he hits the ground and cause a force get up. It only works on characters with large hurtbox, where hitting them in a certain area wouldn't necessarily 'sweetspot' enough to cause knockback.

(Hope that didn't turn out confusing. Rofl)

Is this post about rob? :o

 

[Darky-Sama]

Is this post about rob? :o

No, it was characters in general.

If you look at the clip right after Bowser on Shadow Tactic's video, the same applies to Snake. Which makes me think it only works on characters with larger hurtbox frames.

ROB though, hes sorta unique. His bouncing animation when footstooled is so odd, that he can actually get ***** due to his oddly shaped structure.


EDIT: Oh, the video YOU posted. Not ground Zero.
Yes, that's because it's not registering as a DAIR, it's registering as a FASTFALL.
Notice in the description, it says:

DownSmash - Footstool - DownAir(orDownB)

That's because those make ZSS fastfall much quicker than just holding down, because she has an attack animation trying to start-up, which she hits the ground first, causing it not to register.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No, it was characters in general.

If you look at the clip right after Bowser on Shadow Tactic's video, the same applies to Snake. Which makes me think it only works on characters with larger hurtbox frames.

ROB though, hes sorta unique. His bouncing animation when footstooled is so odd, that he can actually get ***** due to his oddly shaped structure.

Also, that's not ending DAIR laglessly.
It's not canceling or anything from what I see. o_O;

oh, yeah I thought it was about rob.
I think the key is weight or falling speed.

Oh and I don't see which video you're watching, but in the video in front of my nose the zero suit ends lagless next to the rob, effectively avoiding the 40frame lag

 

[Darky-Sama]

oh, yeah I thought it was about rob.
I think the key is weight or falling speed.

Oh and I don't see which video you're watching, but in the video in front of my nose the zero suit ends lagless next to the rob, effectively avoiding the 40frame lag

I fixed my post. My apologies for that. I didn't see your video. I thought that was in your signature before. xD

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

EDIT: Oh, the video YOU posted. Not ground Zero.
Yes, that's because it's not registering as a DAIR, it's registering as a FASTFALL.
Notice in the description, it says:

DownSmash - Footstool - DownAir(orDownB)

That's because those make ZSS fastfall much quicker than just holding down, because she has an attack animation trying to start-up, which she hits the ground first, causing it not to register.

Interesting.. what would happen if you'd normally fastfall?

I fixed my post. My apologies for that. I didn't see your video. I thought that was in your signature before. xD

My sig is sexy right? :3

 

[Darky-Sama]

Interesting.. what would happen if you'd normally fastfall?

After the footstool, she would have done a jump.
Notice, she doesn't jump, she goes straight down.

While in the footstool animation, you have to do an attack - - preferably one where you can hold down, so she just fastfalls. Down+B or Down Air are the two to rely on.

As soon as she does the footstool, you have to use an aerial to cancel out the jump so she just fastfalls without doing an attack or getting the jump height of the footstool.

My sig is sexy right? :3

Yes. <3 LS.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

After the footstool, she would have done a jump.
Notice, she doesn't jump, she goes straight down.

While in the footstool animation, you have to do an attack - - preferably one where you can hold down, so she just fastfalls. Down+B or Down Air are the two to rely on.

As soon as she does the footstool, you have to use an aerial to cancel out the jump so she just fastfalls without doing an attack or getting the jump height of the footstool.


Yes. <3 LS.

Rob is weird >_>

 

[Darky-Sama]

Rob is weird >_>

Indeed.

It can only be labeled as "GET *****, TOP TIER". <3

Footstooling is causing me to want to find patches to infinites now.

I know I found a lock you can do with Peach with her ground canceled weak back airs - and finishing with a Forward Smash. Getting them onto the ground is the problem though. I think a footstool could do the trick.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Indeed.

It can only be labeled as "GET *****, TOP TIER". <3

Footstooling is causing me to want to find patches to infinites now.

I know I found a lock you can do with Peach with her ground canceled weak back airs - and finishing with a Forward Smash. Getting them onto the ground is the problem though. I think a footstool could do the trick.

Ah, that would be the infamous Bair lock. It's almost impossible to do consistently, but if you can, that **** is deadly.

I still don't understand about the ZSS-ROB infinite, but then I probably never will so I'll just stop. Though I must say, it looks really filthy when you do it. It kinda looks like ZSS is rubbing her skintight suit all over ROB's face, and then he faints with pleasure.

 

[Darky-Sama]

New Frame Data!

I was just doing the downsmash footstool thing on ROB in slow motion in training mode. You know why the properties are so odd and it works on him? When you footstool him in midair, which a downsmash registers it as him being in the air- - she actually pushes his head downward so he's on his side by the time he hits the ground. From the point where his head hits the ground, thats where her jump usually begins from the footstool.

When you cancel it out with a down+b or down air, it cancels out the jump and she just hits the ground laglessly. Which is why it looks like she's not doing anything but fastfalling as soon as she starts the footstool. The footstool doesn't END until his face hits the ground (being when hes turned on his side, if you were to do it in up higher in midair).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Legs Of Steel

 

[Darky-Sama]

Ah, that would be the infamous Bair lock. It's almost impossible to do consistently, but if you can, that **** is deadly.

I still don't understand about the ZSS-ROB infinite, but then I probably never will so I'll just stop. Though I must say, it looks really filthy when you do it. It kinda looks like ZSS is rubbing her skintight suit all over ROB's face, and then he faints with pleasure.

That, is what I kept talking about in the Zelda Thread before about float canceling. My playstyle with Peach actually revolves around Peach's ability to constantly cancel her back airs with it. It can combo at low percents on heavy weights if you keep using it- - and it can lock if you get them flat on the ground. I've actually gotten the timing of it down, it's just setting it up that's my problem.

You know besides using "The Royal Guard", Peach back air wall actually breaks through most projectile game too? Link and Samus, mainly.

 

[mountain_tiger]

That, is what I kept talking about in the Zelda Thread before about float canceling. My playstyle with Peach actually revolves around Peach's ability to constantly cancel her back airs with it. It can combo at low percents on heavy weights if you keep using it- - and it can lock if you get them flat on the ground. I've actually gotten the timing of it down, it's just setting it up that's my problem.

Really? Well, you're better than I am then. I can sometimes get one sourspot Bair on an opponent lying flat, but otherwise I can't do it at all. Here's a set-up for the Bair lock you can try out:

Full-hop Dair > Footstool > Cancel jumping momentum with float > Fastfall Bair > Bair lock

This is legit, but it's stupidly hard to do.

You know besides using "The Royal Guard", Peach back air wall actually breaks through most projectile game too? Link and Samus, mainly.

Bair is too good. It has awesome priority, ***** airdodges, is fairly quick with good damage and knockback. <3 Bair. Dair clanks with a good deal of projectiles as well. Seriously, Peach would easily be top of B Tier if she had average killing power.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Full-hop Dair > Footstool > Cancel jumping momentum with float > Fastfall Bair > Bair lock

............
-flees to test something-

Bair is too good. It has awesome priority, ***** airdodges, is fairly quick with good damage and knockback. <3 Bair. Dair clanks with a good deal of projectiles as well. Seriously, Peach would easily be top of B Tier if she had average killing power.

I know, right? Peach is making a lot of improvement though. She's certainly going to make a jump or two on the tier list if things keep up the way they are.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

after watching super ganon time again, I was thinking.

Nana JC toss down, nB, nana JC toss down, nB etc

 

[noradseven]

lol at all the ZSS vs ROB infinite stuff its all what we figured out when we first did it. Personally I say don't bother the ROB match is slightly in our favor anyways, and its just kind of a **** move to do this to someone its like an IC infinite but slower .

 

[Nefarious B]

By the way xonar, I tested the nB to forward JCT to nB lock, it looked really legit and i was super excited but unfortunately shield testing proved it not true.

nB to FJCT to nB is a combo, after that you can't throw the nanner in time before diddy can shield. if the nB stun lasted slightly longer it would be a true combo, at any percent o.O

 

[SuSa]

What about dsmash? Isn't that guarenteed on a trip? ( I forget if Diddy trips out or not for dsmash )

 

[NickRiddle]

What about dsmash? Isn't that guarenteed on a trip? ( I forget if Diddy trips out or not for dsmash )

The problem here is that the d-smash forces you in the air, and the shockwave sends you up, so you could jump out of this.

 

[CRASHiC]

How about dsmash footstool naner lock?

 

[SuSa]

Unless Diddy is like ROB, you jump to high from the footstool. You wouldn't be able to get to the ground before he reacted.

 

[Nefarious B]

What about dsmash? Isn't that guarenteed on a trip? ( I forget if Diddy trips out or not for dsmash )

you can do neutral b >either GT or JCT>dsmash combo. it's just that she can do better.

 

[SuSa]

I was the one that told the Diddy boards about that combo with the banana.