Zelda's Stage Discussion and Analysis (SMASHVILLE)

[Villi]

Alright, folks, it's time for Zelda and Sheik's stage discussion and analysis. Discussion will be organized into categories of stage qualities (helpers/hazards), zoning, traps, edge guarding, recovery, pressure, defense, and miscellaneous properties. They'll be ranked from best to worst as we go along. Zelda and Sheik(/Zelda) will be separated for convenience.

We'll get the neutrals out of the way first and then go on to popular counterpick stages. Stages will change as soon as discussion halts. The OP will be updated regularly so any new and useful information for old stages will be added to the front page.

Explanation of terms:

Stage Qualities: Stage occurences such as the ship weapons on halberd, the ghost platform on Yoshi's Island, the water on Delphino, the reappearance of Luigi's Mansion will all be discussed here. Platform heights, blast zones, and occurences will be up for analysis.

Zoning/brick-walling: Positions on the stage you want to be in to maximize your potential to keep your opponent at a disadvantage. Methods you can use to limit your opponent's options and strategies for punishing attempts to escape your wall.

Traps: Attacks you can use to put your opponents in disadvatageous positions. Methods you use to place your foe in a position to be zoned.

Edge Guarding: Stage specific maneuvers for edge guarding your opponent. Ways to use the layout of the stage to make it difficult for your opponent to recover while aiding you in your edge guard, e.g., using platforms to help you gain height against high recoveries. Methods for limiting its options of landing on the stage from off-stage or from on the ledge.

Recovery: Using properties of the stage to aid you in your recovery after being sent off the stage.

Pressure: Ways you can use your positional advantages on the stage to effectively approach your opponent to cause damage to it or its shield.

Defense: Ways you can use the stage to defend yourself from enemy approaches or projectiles.

Miscellaneous: Random, stage specific information that hasn't been covered by the above categories. Free summaries of your stage experiences.​

Stage Rankings:

Zelda:

Battlefield
Yoshi's Island​

Sheik(/Zelda):

Battlefield​

Current Discussion: SMASHVILLE

​

Onto Smashville! It's a flat, small stage. The moving platform adds a little bit of variety.​

 

[Villi]

Space reserved.

 

[Villi]

Space reserved.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

*reserves space*

I'm far too tired right now to make an organized and coherent post.

I'll sumarize the points I already talked with villi about when I wake up and get back from classes tomorrow.

ibvuj9arfdh***ff

^that's my head landing on the keyboard in a near comatose torpor.

 

[SinkingHigher]

Alright, time to re-write this post.

Zelda and Sheik, in my opinion, have a reallllyyy good time with large flat stages (preferably double-edged). It allows for projectiles and chasing to be as effective it can be, and gives you options for spiking and gimping/edge-guarding. A few platforms can be a huge help too, however, there is a problem.

Zelda HATES to be on top. She has two moves that could hit someone below her. Din (not suggested if you dont know what you're doing) and d-air. D-air has like, the tiniest hitbox ever, so not good options. Basically, stay AWAY from that top platform. Nothing good comes of that platform. Of course, if you can get your opponent up there, U-air works wonders.

On the flipside she loves being underneath, and the side platforms make it really easy to U-smash trap, U-tilt, and set up lightning kicks. They also help you when you're coaxing people towards the edge, because that situation is really strange. Some characters' shorthops will land them on the platform, so wait for the change and do some damage. They provide the perfect height for an opponent to be at for lots of Zeldas moves. N-air works really well jumping up to the ledges and fast falling down from them.

The problem with them of course is that you are put in the same bad situations that you want your enemy to be in if you don't stick to the ground.

If you are one of the few people that use Din glides, it pops them up to the ledge at which point you can u-air or even b-air.

The lip is BEAUTIFUL. Unlike FD, it is VERY easy to recover even if you're nervous and can't hold the north-north west or east position when recovering. This allows for really good edge-guarding, since you can use NL to trap someone beneath the stage and then get back to the stage.

The bottom and side edges are somewhat closer to the stage than FD as well, so spikes and lightning kicks theoretically *should* KO at earlier percentages.

 

[Oh Snap]

Stage Qualities: Land a Utilt on somone on the lower platforms...N-air, FFu-ar can work too ^_^

Recovery: No lip...easier vertical recovery for Zelda.

 

[Villi]

The two platforms are low enough for you to up smash or up tilt them from beneath. You can also short hop nairs and up airs and still hit them. A full hopped lightning kick gets you at just the right height for a sweet spot. A full hopped nair will auto-cancel if you fast fall onto the platform from which you can buffer any move you want, although there is significant lag before you can fall through the platform instead of crouching. Nairs last long enough for you to travel almost the entire width of the platform, maintaining a hitbox.

The top platform is the perfect height for a full hopped up air and sweet spotting double jumped lightning kicks. From the center of the top platform, you can pretty easily teleport onto 1 of 5 places on the stage. This option coupled with falling/fast falling throuhg and air dodging give you some good ways of not being punished by landing here.

Mario dies from off the top from up smash at 104% and off the side from the center at 114% by fsmash. I might collect data from all character with her most reliable kill moves later. It would be nice if someone volunteered to help me out. :3

From the spawning platform, when you come back with a new stock, you are at the perfect height to ledge warp onto the edge of the lower two platforms. Vurry sexy, pretty easy. You can duplicate the height of the spawning platform by double jumping from the center of the top platform and FW'ing down+down-right or down-left with little risk of killing yourself.

General strategy on BF is to just hide under the platforms and keep them at your fsmash range, getting ready to hit them for rolling behind you or aerial them for jumping.

Here is a good example of a battlefield trap: at 40% to a little over 60% (at 60% this is a death blow), you can down throw Mario and he will fall onto a platform before his hitstun expires. This means he can't double jump and has to either tech or fall onto his back on the platform. Your cooldown is short enough to lightning kick him if he doesn't tech. If mario bounces (meaning he doesn't attempt to air dodge, tech, or aerial), and you for some reason sour spot him, he will be forced to do an immediate get up animation as if you were setting him up for a jab or laser lock. That means you get a free down smash on him as he's getting up. For in case he shields it, allow yourself to follow through with your DI so that you land next to him as he falls off the platform then down tilt him.

 

[Veggie123]

You can uair under battlefield's main platform. Can throw off a potential edgeguarder or get them killed if they're high enough, but it's more of a quirk than anything and is probably best to use sparingly since you get put into a position where you can be easily edgehogged if it's avoided. I don't think you can do this on any other stage and make it back "safely".

Battlefield is arguably one of Zelda's better stages. Being above Zelda is usually a hassle after all.

 

[-Mars-]

You can uair under battlefield's main platform. Can throw off a potential edgeguarder or get them killed if they're high enough, but it's more of a quirk than anything and is probably best to use sparingly since you get put into a position where you can be easily edgehogged if it's avoided. I don't think you can do this on any other stage and make it back "safely".

Battlefield is arguably one of Zelda's better stages. Being above Zelda is usually a hassle after all.

You can do this on a lot of stages.

I don't know the exact number, but uair kills at like 60% on most characters on the top platform. I love BF just because I land the most uairs there. The platforms were almost made for Zelda. Her platform pressure game is insane.....nair is also very good for platform pressure at the lower percentages

Like it was mentioned earlier, her recovery is also aided by the stage. Being able to teleport to the platforms during your recovery and from being juggled is invaluable.

It's pretty much her best stage.

 

[Villi]

I don't think y'all quite understood what I meant in the range thread. Zelda's up air hitbox is a couple of pixels longer than the battlefield's main platform. If you time it just right, you can hit someone standing in the center of that blue circle from way beneath the stage. The hitbox is actually a little smaller than the explosion, tho, so even though it goes through smashville, I doubt you can hit someone through the main platform unless it's through the ledge.

 

[deepseadiva]

I'll ask this here then. Would you Zeldas agree with this so far:

Zelda
Best: Smashville, Battlefield, Luigi's Mansion
Worst: Lylat Cruise

It's for my thread listing each character's three best and worst stages. Would you agree? Suggestions for the empty slots?

 

[-Mars-]

I'll ask this here then. Would you Zeldas agree with this so far:



It's for my thread listing each character's three best and worst stages. Would you agree? Suggestions for the empty slots?

I'd put FD as one of her worst stages. She's not terrible on it, but the camping becomes a pain in the a$$ on that stage and against some characters it destroys her.

 

[Bandit]

@Meno

Any stage the character can come through the stage (ex. delfino) is horrible for Zelda. It forces Zeldas to FW above the stage and be punished because sweet spotting the ledge is so hard. I would rather play at Lylat, which is difficult for her, than delfino or any stage like it.

Battlefield

I play my best games on this stage. Platforms allow to get on a different plane than the opponent. You realize how much of a blessing this is when you face opponents like Diddy and ROB. Zelda has a great time attacking people above her, and the platforms can allow her to recover from the air a little easier. She does not like people below her, but the platforms gives you more options.

I agree with the strategy of hiding under the platforms. I dare any opponents to approach from above with Zelda's upsmash or straight on with her dtilt and fsmash.

I never have had a problem getting back on battlefield when off the ledge. As far as opponents off the ledge, relatively small ceiling and walls makes for utilt and dsmash territory.

All-around, it is a strong stage and one of the best neutrals to end up on for your first match. If you are stumped on a counter pick, it also isn't a bad choice if you need a comfortable place to go.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd put FD as one of her worst stages. She's not terrible on it, but the camping becomes a pain in the a$$ on that stage and against some characters it destroys her.

no. I'd say not to put FD as a bad zelda stage because it isn't. It's misleading to suggest that it is.

Zelda does poorly on FD against people who are good at FD, but FD itself does nothing really to hamper her.

the only stages that are hard for her just by their existance are:
lylat
delfino
halberd

 

[-Mars-]

no. I'd say not to put FD as a bad zelda stage because it isn't. It's misleading to suggest that it is.

Zelda does poorly on FD against people who are good at FD, but FD itself does nothing really to hamper her.

the only stages that are hard for her just by their existance are:
lylat
delfino
halberd

She's not necessarily bad on the stage, just that it creates a lot of problems for her against some characters.

If i'm playing against Zelda, I want as much space possible between me and her. I know you mentioned those stages because of what they can do to her recovery, but if i'm playing Zelda i'd rather have the option of camping here all over the place instead of smaller stages where she will be up close a lot more often.

 

[Oh Snap]

Jiggs dies at 91% from a F-smash from the center the FD and 85% from a U-smash.

Bowswer dies at 125% from a F-smash and 119% from a U-smash.

Both moves are fresh...

 

[Bandit]

I used to think frigate was a terrible stage for Zelda as well, but I am finding more and more that her recovery doesn't require a ledge. The first part of the stage is small with small walls and ceiling. It could allow for a lot of kills at lower percents, and if it flips then it is basically a neutral stage. I am not saying I would CP it, but I could see Zelda fairing well here if she were taken here.

 

[Villi]

Ok, it's been a week and there hasn't really been much discussion on BF, so we'll move on. This thread won't work out well unless you guys actually try to figure out some stage specific strategy.

The down throw trap works well for people with average fall speeds. Doesn't work so well for floaties, though. Up throw doesn't seem to be a particularly good move for this stage since at best you'll be able to land a non-lethal up air at low percents if you get someone on the top platform.

Standing on one side of the platform while your opponent waits on the edge is a good position to be in. It gives you room to punish anything your opponent might try to do and you can keep pressure on them with nairs. You can keep them on the run for a pretty good while by owning the center of the stage and punish poor decisions.

You want to push people toward the edges at low percentages to limit their approach options. Their most obvious options are gonna be ground approaches or short hopped, so be able to punish character specific approaches. Double jumps, you can just follow on the ground and punish where they land. If they land on platforms, SH nairs are a nice way to chase them down.

Standing on the side platforms puts you in a decent position to edge guard as a mix-up. Fast falling off the side puts you in a position to sweet spot a dair on someone hanging from the ledge. It also gives you extra height on people who will be recovering high after you fsmash them.

Platforms give you some good recovery options. If you're just missing the ledge from your double jump, you have the option of sweet spotting or FW onto the nearest side platform. From up high, you can get onto the top platform and then double jump teleport cancel onto the edge of a side platform.

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

So are we done with Battlefield? 'Cuz I'm moving on to Yoshi's Island (been waiting for this one)

The thing I really like about this level is that unlike FD, LC and other stages it's impossible to get stuck under it. This more than anything is my biggest problem while recovering - spending too much time to make sure I'm not going under the level - so I like it when I'm taken there. I wouldn't CP it, not while Battlefield is just sitting there, but it's still an excellent stage for Zelda, as the center platform often offers the same advantages the Battlefield platforms do, especially on the lower side when it's tilted. And on the higher end FH Nair/SH Uair both work wonders.

Oh, and the little ghost platforms are nice when Din's Demises/Farore's Failures happen (accidentally use the wrong one and float/teleport myself off, happens to me a lot T_T)

 

[Radarr]

Ugh, I hate Yoshi's Island. Just a personal bias as Zelda...
Only because every single time I try to FW up (ok, not EVERY time, but still), I get stuck. If Zelda is touching a wall and you FW straight up then she won't go anywhere. She will disappear, and then reappear in the same spot. And since I usually forget to move that 1 cm away before FW-ing, I'm dead. Hence why if Yoshi's Island is picked, I switch to Sheik ASAP. Wall cling = love.

SO IN SHORT.
On the stage, Yoshi's Island rocks for Zelda. Off the stage, annoying. =D

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I agree with radarr on this one. The stage itself is pretty nice to Zelda, especially when it tilts into Usmash/Utilt reach. I usually get stuck on the edge of Yoshi's as well and when I do go for the ghost platforms, they seem to leave as I make it to them, and mess me up a little bit.

 

[Bandit]

I think this is her worst neutral. The stage is not level causing problems if you FW cancel, the stage can catch you on the sides when you are recovering, and there have been times when i threw a fire ball while near the edge and fell off even though my momentum was toward the stage. This is an awful stage to have to deal with if you are Zelda.

The center platform constantly tipping means there is a big object blocking your fireballs or lifting your opponent just above Usmash range. The walls and ceilings have a good bit of room here, and it would not favor us.

 

[sniperworm]

I hate this stage because the ghost platform hates me. At least 30% of my sweetspotted Dairs are "cancelled" by that dumb ghost coming out from underneath them to save my opponent. That and he's never around when I need him, grr...

Is there some sort of pattern to that platform or is it random? If there is a pattern I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could tell me what it is.

As far as getting stuck while recovering, I've noticed that happens to a lot of Zeldas. In order to teleport straight up, you have put the control stick in neutral. For some reason if you hold up, sometimes it reads up and towards the stage and makes you get stuck.

The sloped stage and tilting platform can be good or bad, depending on the specific situation, so I don't particularly like or dislike these parts of the stage.

So overall, I don't like it because the ghost doesn't like me. It seriously feels like a 2 on 1 sometimes (one time against my friend, I sweetspotted Dair 3 times in one match and that dumb platform saved him every single time, I was like OMG HAX!!!!!!) but maybe that's just me.

 

[Rykoshet]

Stage is horrible from a recovery perspective and from an edgeguarding perspective, I don't see how anyone who isnt wolf or rob remotely likes this stage.

Edit: And lucario/diddy

 

[Villi]

The little v shape really messes with my double lightning kicks since trying to do them going up the slope usually ends up in me landing before my second attack comes out. From one little spot going down the slope, it's possible to do a double fair though.

I have a feeling that standing in the little valley with jabs and fsmashes keeps you pretty safe from all kinds of short ranged approaches... Under the platform is the place to camp if you have a good projectile; though it's not directly pertinent to Zelda.

I think the problem with getting stuck to the wall isn't so much that you're touching it but that Zelda still keeps a bit of her aerial momentum as she's performing her up b. So if you stop her momentum by tapping away from the direction she's moving before FW, she should get up with no problem. It's the same thing I do to sweet spot the ledge from under FD so that I don't get caught under the lip -- you have to stop right under it. Also, I think rolling toward the ledge and then doing Din's causes you to kill yourself... so don't do that.

 

[Lord Yawgmoth]

I agree with Scary and radarr here, I was about to post the same thing until I saw that they did it as well.


I really don't know if it's her momentum because I often let myself fall for a while in order to sweetspot the edge,, but in any case, on final destination I can recover relatively well, because I know the lip is there. On Yoshi's Island however, that **** gets obnoxious. Otherwise, I love the stage. Okay, and shyguys are almost as good as balloons, no statisfying 'pop' though.


Lord Yawgmoth: Yoshi's Island below battlefield.

 

[RedSnowman]

Sorry I'm not contributing a lot... just stating how much I hate yoshi's island. I hate the uneven land and the way the middle platform tilts. Essentially I play a very patient precise game and here it feels like there's always stuff throwing me off. I don't like the ghost platforms, and well there is really nothing I like about Yoshi's island. Give me FD or Battlefield any day. My roomies counterpick Yoshi's a lot against me... it doesn't mess me up a lot but I still hate it.

 

[NinjaLink]

Ok. Worst Neutral. The wall thing. Dtilt edgeguard is not so good. I cant Teleport cancel because its random that it actually cancels and i do this on every stage consistently. Stage is stupid for it. Recovery is stupid. high ceiling meaning not so much vertical kills. Uair the platform but thats it. Uptilt/upsmash hits depends on slant. Eh i hate it.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I think Yoshi Island is a bit of a poor choice for Zelda. Lack of even ground can disturb teleporting game and I don't think Zelda's character adjusts to the height change on attacks, so she loses when she's on the slight downhill.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

It's extremely important to remember that Din's on a certain sloped part of Yoshi's will result in death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dz_s2B08-I 3:15

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

if you release din's immediately you can grab the ledge. but yeah, it's gay like that; pictochat is the same way.

 

[Bandit]

I think this stage is completely worth a ban in most matchups. I can deal with most other CP's but to get stuck with this as the first match would be disastrous if something stupid happened to cost you the match.

 

[NinjaLink]

I think this stage is completely worth a ban in most matchups. I can deal with most other CP's but to get stuck with this as the first match would be disastrous if something stupid happened to cost you the match.

Same. I usually ban this period. Only char that this stage gives an advantage is GW and maybe wolf lol.

 

[Villi]

I didn't know so many people hated this stage... From trying to get myself comfortable on it, I'm beginning to really like it. Not as much as battlefield, but getting close behind smashville.

Teleport canceling is not harder to do on Yoshi's Island than anywhere else. I can do it consistently from the same general area over and over again.

The middle platform is super interesting. Try doing a nair to a buffered down tilt onto it as it's sloping down away from you -- Zelda's dtilt slides all the way down to the edge of the platform and can hit people standing near the platform. If the platform is tilting down toward the ledge and someone is standing near the ledge, you can run off it with a Naryu's Glide and toss them off the stage.

The best thing is from one edge of the platform, you can double jump cancel FW diagonal+down and cancel your teleport on the other edge. The way the platform is slanting doesn't seem to have too much of an effect on whether or not it works, but it's pretty hard to kill yourself doing this one. You just need to be standing at the edge of one side, double jump and FW toward the other edge.

Edit: It seems it's muuuch easier to do out of a full hop standing on the first white tooth of either side. You can even use this mark from underneath the platform and perform it out of a double jump. Too good. <3 YI.

The ghost platforms seem to be random. :-/

 

[Bandit]

Don't forget that the right side of the edge has a lip on it that if you are hanging and hit the jump button that it actually stops you from jumping up. This limits your options for getting back on the stage. I know this affects everyone, but for someone who has recovery problems like Zelda, it affects her a bit more.

 

[sniperworm]

Don't forget that the right side of the edge has a lip on it that if you are hanging and hit the jump button that it actually stops you from jumping up. This limits your options for getting back on the stage. I know this affects everyone, but for someone who has recovery problems like Zelda, it affects her a bit more.

Wait, what? So if you're hanging from the right edge of the main platform you can't jump? Are you sure? What happens if you try to jump (do you just fall or what's the deal)? I've never heard anything about this before, I need to check this out when I get home. This is definitely important for me because my two training buddies LOVE this stage (one uses Wolf and the other uses G&W, coincidence?).

Oh yeah, I still hate that ghost platform.

 

[Darkmusician]

The dips and rises in the surface of the main platform aren't fun especially when playing against short characters.

As previously mentioned the boundaries of the stage hurt cause opponents tend to live longer.

And most of all the sides of the stage. Sakurai randomly comes out of the wall, grabs Zelda and pulls her down.

 

[Bandit]

Wait, what? So if you're hanging from the right edge of the main platform you can't jump? Are you sure? What happens if you try to jump (do you just fall or what's the deal)? I've never heard anything about this before, I need to check this out when I get home. This is definitely important for me because my two training buddies LOVE this stage (one uses Wolf and the other uses G&W, coincidence?).

Oh yeah, I still hate that ghost platform.

Go the right side of the stage. Hang off the ledge. Push the jump button. You will find an awful surprise.

The right side is definitely cursed.

 

[RedSnowman]

The dips and rises in the surface of the main platform aren't fun especially when playing against short characters.

As previously mentioned the boundaries of the stage hurt cause opponents tend to live longer.

And most of all the sides of the stage. Sakurai randomly comes out of the wall, grabs Zelda and pulls her down.

lol ownage by Sakurai

 

[RoyalBlood]

What happened to this thread D=
Hmmmm, this is a nice stage for Zelda? @_@