Zelda's Personal Matchup Thread

[Fuujin]

Why are some of the heads smaller than others :/?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I dunno.

I disagree with Samus, Sonic, Luigi and Ike being -2 though.

Peach seems okay, but I dunno about Wolf.

Also Charizard is horrible. lulz.

Ivysaur is +1.

Everything else seems fine I guess.

Basically with the Luigi matchup, it's get in the lead > force approach > spam f-smash (smartly ofc). Luigi will slide awaaaaaaaaaaaaaay and be forced to approach again. lulz.

 

[Fuujin]

Basically with the Luigi matchup, it's get in the lead > force approach > spam f-smash (smartly ofc). Luigi will slide awaaaaaaaaaaaaaay and be forced to approach again. lulz.

That sounds nice on paper, but when I played him irl Yosh didn't just run into f-smash, he baited them in the air and punished with b-air.
Not to mention you didn't say anything about his up b.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It's not like he has any guaranteed set ups into up b.

Don't you dare say jab > up b either.

Just attempt to reset space and go through it again.

 

[Fuujin]

It's not like he has any guaranteed set ups into up b.

Don't you dare say jab > up b either.

Just attempt to reset space and go through it again.

Well this is turning into a debate of me facing a notable and good Luigi against you saying what "should" and "shouldn't" work on paper.

 

[z00ted]

I just want to say Peach could be Zelda's WORST matchup.

 

[Fuujin]

I just want to say Peach could be Zelda's WORST matchup.

Welll I wouldn't go that far lol.
She has some significantly worse ones, and that's pretty sad seeing as how Peach ***** her.

 

[Blubolouis]

Ike can't stop Din's fire with Nair or any aerial and counter is the same as a normal shield, the zelda player just has to delay the explosion. I played JuJux this summer (he said he was a bit rusty with zelda) and Ike HAS to approach.
It kinda felt like fighting a snake, approaching her is hell and getting her offstage is well rewarded.
Like Fuujin said, zelda absolutely can't go out of her way -read: massive camp- to kill ike, cause she'll be put in a bad position.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I just want to say Peach could be Zelda's WORST matchup.

Really? I always thought it was Mr. Game and Watch.

 

[GodAtHand]

Really... any Zelda that thinks Peach is that bad is just playing the matchup wrong.

 

[Fuujin]

Really... any Zelda that thinks Peach is that bad is just playing the matchup wrong.

Me: I've played like 3 out of the 5 top Peaches and they would all agree its probably -3.
I live by Nicole and play her regularly and in fact Illmatic JUST said it was clearly bad for her.

Riot: I've played my local Peach friend who I think is good and I don't have a hard time against him so therefore it isn't that bad of a match up and if you say differently you're just playing it wrong or just bad.
Don't use you playing Nicole as an excuse ether, you had to have played her like 2 years ago.
The first time I played her I won against her because she had no idea how to play the Zelda match up.


Of course the o mighty Riot could NEVER be wrong.
Why don't we just let him decide the personal MU chart all by himself?
He's obviously the best Zelda and all of his match up opinions are 100% accurate.
It could never be that maybe, JUST MAYBE his friend isn't really a prime example of Peach being played to her best abilities in that MU.
Perish the thought!

 

[Fuujin]

counter is the same as a normal shield

the zelda player just has to delay the explosion.

Ike HAS to approach.

Zelda, kinda felt like fighting a snake

Please go back to the Ike boards, we have more than enough people spewing nonsense in the Zelda boards.

 

[Blubolouis]

... whatever then

 

[Meru.]

Really... any Zelda that thinks Peach is that bad is just playing the matchup wrong.

I main Peach and second Zelda, and have played the match-up both ways. If it isn't a -3, it's a -4. Peach ANNIHILATES Zelda. It may be not the the worst but ****, it's definitely one of her worst.

Peach's spacing ***** Zelda. Nearly any move on Zelda's shield is save. Dodging Zelda's attacks is a piece of cake. Turnips give her hell. When Peach hits Zelda, she isn't going to stop pressuring till Zelda loses a stock.

There is only one thing that can possibly stop Peach from ****** Zelda and that's fear. If Peach doesn't continuously attack or makes a mistake or whatever, Zelda can smash. It's not unusual for a Peach player to get greedy and try to hit Zelda while she's landing, which obviously leads to one of Zelda's landing punishes. Other than that, there's Dsmash, which can be annoying.

But really. Fear, Dsmashes and (if the Zelda is lucky) landing punishes arent going to make a match-up any good. Especially not if nearly everything the opponent does gives you hell.

 

[Fuujin]

I main Peach and second Zelda, and have played the match-up both ways. If it isn't a -3, it's a -4. Peach ANNIHILATES Zelda. It may be not the the worst but ****, it's definitely one of her worst.

Peach's spacing ***** Zelda. Nearly any move on Zelda's shield is save. Dodging Zelda's attacks is a piece of cake. Turnips give her hell. When Peach hits Zelda, she isn't going to stop pressuring till Zelda loses a stock.

There is only one thing that can possibly stop Peach from ****** Zelda and that's fear. If Peach doesn't continuously attack or makes a mistake or whatever, Zelda can smash. It's not unusual for a Peach player to get greedy and try to hit Zelda while she's landing, which obviously leads to one of Zelda's landing punishes. Other than that, there's Dsmash, which can be annoying.

But really. Fear, Dsmashes and (if the Zelda is lucky) landing punishes are going to make a match-up any good. Especially not if nearly everything the opponent does gives you hell.

Thank you!!!
When Peach plays aggro and constantly bombards Zelda with attacks it leaves Zelda no room to breath, Zelda has no options out of it!
Especially because Zelda's only good OSS option is down smash and most of the time peach is going to be too high to hit with that.

When Peach hits Zelda, she isn't going to stop pressuring till Zelda loses a stock.

This!
I was getting ***** up close by Illmatic, I had no way to combat his pressure and its not like Zelda is fast enough to run away.
I would occasionally land attacks but for every 8 hits I took from him I would only be able to land like 1.

Zelda is basically like another slightly faster, floaty, lighter Ganondorf to Peach with decent smash attacks.
Ganon might even do better against her because he can at least manage a shield grab every now and then.

 

[GodAtHand]

Whatevs clearly these Zelda mains know way more about her than I do. Despite having played Peachkid, Dark.Peach, Mikey, Nicole, and Praxis before. And Having beat each of them.

Do as you will, the Zelda boards are less for Zelda mains than ponies lately anyway.

 

[Fuujin]

Whatevs clearly these Zelda mains know way more about her than I do. Despite having played Peachkid, Dark.Peach, Mikey, Nicole, and Praxis before. And Having beat each of them.

Do as you will, the Zelda boards are less for Zelda mains than ponies lately anyway.

Whens the last time you played these peaches other than Peach kid?


I've played Illmatic, Nicole(again, regularly), Silly Kyle, King Beef all within the last 8-9 months and here you have another Peach attesting to it being horrible for her.

Edit: Probably not King Beef, that was a long time ago.

And I'm not doubting that your friend is a good Peach but in this video he isn't playing the way he should be against Zelda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rru95YGK8yg
He plays too passive and like he's afraid of Zelda.
Just like Yaaay said, one of the only things Zelda has going for her is hoping that the Peach is afraid of her kill power.
He also only approaches with grabs, glidetoss, peach bomber... and...upsmash.
at 2:40 he DIs torward Zelda to escape d tilt...
His spacing is all off, he plays sloppily and he does a lot of stupid moves.

He does the same **** against Ganondorf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omYsx_mixe4
I doubt we'd have Verm coming in here saying it's an near even match up just because he nearly 3 stocked a Peach who plays horribly.

 

[GodAtHand]

Nicole was recently in NE and we played once again if I recall correctly. The rest of the people I named where all at APEX exactly one year ago, except for PK and Dark.Peach. PK was obviously a few nights ago, and D.peach was I would say between 5 and 8 months ago.

I don't disagree with it being a bad matchup for Zelda, but once we start talking Snake-bad, and Meta-knight bad someone is screwing their idea of bad up. For god's sake the *****'s air dodge is near useless and our up air kills her at 70%!

And I really don't understand your animosity toward me, we are seemingly the only two active Zelda mains worth noting these days and I don't remember getting into a horrible argument with you or killing your puppy or anything.

 

[Fuujin]

I'm not having animosity but in the past there have been match ups that I clearly have more experience with, I proceed to give my input on these and your response is basically "lol no youre just bad" or "You're doing something wrong".
Two examples I can think of would be the Peach match up and the Link match up.

 

[Bloodcross]

well, peach and zelda are both terrible

nothing matters

 

[GodAtHand]

When your views of matchups are just SO negative and you are unwilling to even consider what other players do in those "hopeless" situations it will certainly seem like that. I offer explanations as to why I think the matchups are the way they are and then I get things back like:

It's impeccably difficult to even take you seriously sometimes never mind having to explain anything to you and get nothing back in return except for a troll-gif and a bucket of salt.

Of course the o mighty Riot could NEVER be wrong.
Why don't we just let him decide the personal MU chart all by himself?
He's obviously the best Zelda and all of his match up opinions are 100% accurate.
It could never be that maybe, JUST MAYBE his friend isn't really a prime example of Peach being played to her best abilities in that MU.
Perish the thought!

And that just reeks of over-the-top animosity. Clearly you have some issues with me that goes beyond us disagreeing on matchup ratios. So what if I think my opinions of a match up are right? Doesn't everyone? I state from the get-go when I don't believe I have enough match up experience do give an accurate summary, what else do you want? I'm not going to deny what I have learned from playing other players simply because they don't quite measure up to Fujin-level pro-status.

 

[Fuujin]

well, peach and zelda are both terrible

nothing matters

When your views of matchups are just SO negative and you are unwilling to even consider what other players do in those "hopeless" situations it will certainly seem like that. I offer explanations as to why I think the matchups are the way they are and then I get things back like:

I try to contribute sometimes, seriously I do.
It's just some of the stuff you guys say is so....asinine.
Look at the front page, you guys have her match up ratios akin to a character like Mario's or Lucas's position on the tier list.
Then we have people go around saying things like Zelda can gimp Lucas or that she goes even with Peach???
I sometimes don't know if the Zelda boards are really that ignorant about this game or if everyone's just trolling me.

It's impeccably difficult to even take you seriously sometimes never mind having to explain anything to you and get nothing back in return except for a troll-gif and a bucket of salt.

Again, when I try to explain something I just get responses like.

Yah, it's called: "Being a skilled player."

You should start working on that, people would take you more seriously.

And that just reeks of over-the-top animosity. Clearly you have some issues with me that goes beyond us disagreeing on matchup ratios. So what if I think my opinions of a match up are right? Doesn't everyone? I state from the get-go when I don't believe I have enough match up experience do give an accurate summary, what else do you want? I'm not going to deny what I have learned from playing other players simply because they don't quite measure up to Fujin-level pro-status.

My only issue with you is that you tend to act high and mighty about things on here or like your opinion is the only one that matters.

None of your results stand out as being any better than mine and while I understand you've been playing longer and have more results but it doesn't mean my opinions should be discredited with a "LOL YOU'RE JUST BAD" response.

 

[GodAtHand]

I try to contribute sometimes, seriously I do.
It's just some of the stuff you guys say is so....asinine.
Look at the front page, you guys have her match up ratios akin to a character like Mario's or Lucas's position on the tier list.
Then we have people go around saying things like Zelda can gimp Lucas or that she goes even with Peach???
I sometimes don't know if the Zelda boards are really that ignorant about this game or if everyone's just trolling me.

I have barely any say in anything that goes up in the Zelda boards. I own no threads, and lead no guides or what have you. Throwing me in with the rest of "the Zelda's" does not make any of these things my opinions or my words. And isn't that ending a bit ironic?

Again, when I try to explain something I just get responses like:

You also pulled that response from a petty argument we were having about other people's opinions on who was the better Zelda player. I was being snarky after I had made my case, you were being a troll before being anything else.

My only issue with you is that you tend to act high and mighty about things on here or like your opinion is the only one that matters.

None of your results stand out as being any better than mine and while I understand you've been playing longer and have more results but it doesn't mean my opinions should be discredited with a "LOL YOU'RE JUST BAD" response.

Well, we are at a stand still because that it was I feel I get from you in reply as well. And no offense but you tend to act the same way when it comes to believing your own opinion is of a higher caliber than the rest of the Zelda's. I feel like people respect my opinion and value my input as a player and perhaps it shows in my posts and attitude, maybe you think nobody values your posts or you think they view you as a joke so that is how you reply to people?

Just try to explain to people what your opinion is, I do feel a bit annoyed when I reply to you but I feel like you ask for it in the way you conduct yourself. You would think with how the Zelda's make you feel like you are being trolled that you would reply in a less alike manner.

Now I have no problem giving Zelda terrible matchups for everything if the majority agrees on it (or the top players), but I will still post my opinion on the matchup if I feel like it. I will however make a more conscientious effort to try to tell when you are not trolling and reply accordingly.

 

[Fuujin]

I have barely any say in anything that goes up in the Zelda boards. I own no threads, and lead no guides or what have you. Throwing me in with the rest of "the Zelda's" does not make any of these things my opinions or my words. And isn't that ending a bit ironic?



You also pulled that response from a petty argument we were having about other people's opinions on who was the better Zelda player. I was being snarky after I had made my case, you were being a troll before being anything else.



Well, we are at a stand still because that it was I feel I get from you in reply as well. And no offense but you tend to act the same way when it comes to believing your own opinion is of a higher caliber than the rest of the Zelda's. I feel like people respect my opinion and value my input as a player and perhaps it shows in my posts and attitude, maybe you think nobody values your posts or you think they view you as a joke so that is how you reply to people?

Just try to explain to people what your opinion is, I do feel a bit annoyed when I reply to you but I feel like you ask for it in the way you conduct yourself. You would think with how the Zelda's make you feel like you are being trolled that you would reply in a less alike manner.

Now I have no problem giving Zelda terrible matchups for everything if the majority agrees on it (or the top players), but I will still post my opinion on the matchup if I feel like it. I will however make a more conscientious effort to try to tell when you are not trolling and reply accordingly.

The players can view me as a joke all they'd like, my results speak louder than opinions.
I try not to act like my post are better or more important than other people, but when I see something that is clearly wrong(Zelda being able to gimp Lucas, Finger bang being a good move to use against Link) its hard for me not to think most other players don't know what they're talking about.

As for my trolling I do that to anyone on any of the boards.
Especially here, bacause its so hard to take some of the responses seriously.

Now I have no problem giving Zelda terrible matchups for everything if the majority agrees on it (or the top players), but I will still post my opinion on the matchup if I feel like it. I will however make a more conscientious effort to try to tell when you are not trolling and reply accordingly.

We've established that the majority of the Zeldas here don't know what they're talking about right?
I think you should just go with whatever you feel the match up really is.
No offense to the other members on the Zelda boards but me and you and sometimes Scary are pretty much the only people who I feel could really contribute to her match ups accurately.
If you honestly thought Peach was even, then I apologize about being an *** about it.
I suppose I can try to reply more seriously around here, I can't stop trolling completely though.

 

[GodAtHand]

Sounds we have come to an agreement.

Also I don't think Peach is even I think it's just not that awful...

 

[Fuujin]

It's sort of like how I felt about Falco.
I used to think Falco was like 40-60 or -2 until I played Arty and found out his jab completely destroys her, where as some characters like Olimar sort of destroy her regardless of their play style.

Its one of those match ups that is highly dependent on the opponents play style.
These type of match ups go from doable, to getting *****, all depending on the opponents play style.

 

[Peachkid]

Why does everyone bring up that one Ganondorf match? It was when I was terrible like... How many months ago maybe even a year? I really can't see how dropping that match into a Zelda vs Peach match-up discussion would help for anything. Especially considering the video's date. I may not be the best Peach in the world but, man I would like it if people would just stop making it seem like I'm not super inconsistent and lose to lower tiered characters. I'm only human and just an ok at best Peach main, geez

Anyway, rant aside, Peach can really mess up Zelda in the sense she can force Zelda's hand and punish pretty hard. I mean hell, my forward air and back air can go through Usmash if its angled correctly additionally, if Zelda gets comboed by a Peach dair, there isnt much that she can retaliate with while airborne. But where Zelda strives is around mid-range, where Peach's main weapon is turnips to counter most of Zelda's relatively large transcendent Forward Smash. And before I'm laughed off the Zelda board, I'll vouch for Dins being used to fish for a reaction and punishing the lag of said reaction. Plus, **** lightning kicks. If you can estimate where a peach will float, landing a sweet-spotted one isn't as fantastic as one would think.

Version for idiots: Don't let peach combo you, stay mid range, predict her moves and punish punish punish and don't die. It's peach, her getting kills is rather hard actually

And sorry if I was late to party, I just caught wind of this discussion

Call me an idiot because I have a "wrong" view of this match-up, but I'm sticking to this analysis

 

[Vermanubis]

Just saying, Peachkid is far better than that video makes him look. It was over a year ago, as well.

 

[Mocha]

I have yet to fight a good offline Peach, though Illmatic is in my region (I will fight him eventually lol). Online, Zelda gets wrecked by Peach. Her nair stops Din's, her veggies can gimp her recovery, and as Peach Kid said, Peach's Fair and Bair can go through Zelda's Upsmash. No, the MU isn't as bad as MK and Olimar, but it still sucks.

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Holy crap what did I miss?!

Ummm.....Ok I see some things of mine quoted by Fuujin. In response, I can only really say that I'm confident I can make some of these things work. Maybe not 100% of the time but it's certainly doable irl. Trust me.

I think we all need to eventually try and work together here instead of fighting each other all the time. I can see a nice part of it comes from Fuu's trolling but it's not all him because we always end up retaliating on him so badly. Yes, he can afford to post a tad more seriously but I really can't just peg him for everything.

Back to Peach....I play Kyon a lot and the MU is at worst a -2. AT WORST! If Peach recovers low, she's dead because Dair plows right through the parasol. Like, it is hilarious how bad Dair is to low offstage Peach. Now it can be baited of course, but that is certainly there. Fighting on stage isn't that difficult since we have the ability to control turnips pretty well. Personally though, if she has a turnip in hand and in shield, I treat her like Diddy and leave her alone. She can punish our anything in that scenario. Pretty much agree with Riot on everything else. I used to believe that this MU sucked for us but it really isn't that bad. Honestly, most MUs we have are not that bad when you sit down and learn it. This I promise.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

As much as Fuujin trolls, and as low as my opinion of him is as a human being, I agree with him on the Zelda/Peach matchup. It's truly TERRIBLE for Zelda and, really, I only consider Game and Watch and Olimar worse matchups for her.

A peach that knows her spacing vs. Zelda is literally almost impossible to do anything against. Aggressive floating tactics are almost completely uncounterable by Zelda. I mean, sure, for any given approach from Peach, we DO have at least one correct response, but the problem is, we're shooting in the dark to pick the correct one and MOST of the time there are more bad possibilities than good ones.
If she's floating low with a turnip, our BEST case scenario is normally just not to take damage, but we have almost nothing to dish back out.

We can choose a few stages with uneven terrain like brinstar, for example, to throw peach off of her float game some, but other than that we are at her mercy. Peach's defensive game doesn't COUNTER Zelda like her offensive game does . . . but Zelda's aggro game is pretty bad so it's still not a great situation if Peach decides to make ZELDA go aggro, which she may do if she isn't familiar with the matchup, though it's still not a GREAT situation even then. But peaches that know the matchup and go Aggro can just **** Zelda's **** up so hard.

Best case scenario, on uneven stages with a peach that can't space correctly on said stages, this matchup goes pretty damn close to even just because Zelda hits so much harder than peach. But that is the absolute BEST case scenario (not taking skill into account) and, otherwise, this matchup is just going to make Zelda look bad . . . like . . . 2-stock bad.

 

[Fluttershy]

Rob is up now

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

For the longest time Zeldas have sworn ROB had a disadvantage to us. I've never bought it. I mean we counter his blindspots pretty well, from what I can recall, and he's a massive target. AND our Dsmash is every bit as fast as his making it harder for him to abuse it as a GTFO move, but still, I mean, we're low teir for a reason. ROB is just better than us meaning, for all our advantages, this matchup is still, on average 45:55 and in ROB's favour. I personally don't like the matchup much... stupid camp fest that it is with ROB just poking the whole game and then not dying easily.

Plus, ROB is a stupid idea for a character.... I want him to suck BADLY. Alas, he does not, and this matchup, while one of our easier ones, is still in the advantage of our foe rather than us :/

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

damn looks like nothing change Zelda players still the same old arguments. *sigh* I'd really wish you guys would attempt to work together instead of being at each others throats. Zelda could use all the help she could get. Check your ego's.

 

[AlanHaTe]

I just suck against ROB so I don't have few to like nothing good to say here

Uair is faster than ROB's Nair so, if ROB is at kill % and landing near to us we can kill him(I've done it before many times) Usmash I think won't work... or just shield (?)

I have no idea about those "blindspots" maybe that's what I've been doing wrong (?) anyone could explain that to me and/or give me good advice for this MU?!?!

sorry for not writing/providing more useful things

 

[Mocha]

Don't fight many of them, but a couple of things I noticed...

His f-tilt and d-tilt actually does outrange us and is an annoying poke on our shields. I'm pretty sure it also cancels Din's. Rob isn't hard to lightning kick because of his height. Tbh, I don't mind fighting him up close too much... it's when he gets you in the air that I start to worry. His recovery is good. His back air can kill you very early if you're close to the death zones on the screen.

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but here's a match I played not too long ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ1KIdIugCw&list=PL40F04DE62939407E&index=6

EDIT: His f-air also cancels out Din's lol

 

[Silly Kyle]

Peach MURDERS Zelda!!!!

I'd say the matchup is -3 for Zelda.

I believe I'm the best Peach at this matchup out of all the top Peach players. Illmatic and Peachkid are up there though.

is free <3

Also, Ven is the best Zelda!

 

[#HBC | Scary]

I personally feel ROB is even. My reasoning, his shield is bad. I'll elaborate more on this.

Kyle, you gonna be at Apex? I'd like to play ya if possible!

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i rarely fight RoB and i never do well so im lurking for others input.

 

[Silly Kyle]

I'm trying really hard to go. It would be amazing <3