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Zelda's Nair

Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
2,368
Location
Chicago, Illinois
heres some recovery frame data some ppl might wanna know

upB high enough so that you regain aerial control, then land
4 frames of landing lag

upB to floor
21 frames of reappear lag

upB to air
30 frames of landing lag

it takes ~20 frames of lag to start falling
+many frames of falling before landing

(so you're looking at 50+ frames at minimum if you teleport to a spot in the air vs 21 if you tele to ground.)
 
S

Shag

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
37
Cosmo! said:
heres some recovery frame data some ppl might wanna know

upB high enough so that you regain aerial control, then land
4 frames of landing lag

upB to floor
21 frames of reappear lag

upB to air
30 frames of landing lag

it takes ~20 frames of lag to start falling
+many frames of falling before landing

(so you're looking at 50+ frames at minimum if you teleport to a spot in the air vs 21 if you tele to ground.)
Click to expand...
Any idea what the frames are after you reappear before you can react? Cause unless you always go 2 the same spot they have 2 know where you are before you appear in order to capitalize on the 21 frames
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
The up-b high thing doesn't seem very useful because you'd have to be in the air for like 120+ frames with no aerial control beforehand anyway.

Sheik's up-b high is much more practical.
 
S

Shag

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
37
Cosmo! said:
i dont quite understand what you're asking
Click to expand...
You said 21 frames of reappearing lag, during which you can be hit i'm guessing? I was trying to determine if there are frames during that time in which you are still invisible.

In other words can they hit you before they can see you, and if so ~how many frames?

(this is y i don't wear a tag when i play zelda)
 
GKInfinity

GKInfinity

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,131
Location
Modesto CA
well yeah, I don't use a tag ever (unless I'm really just messing around). I was just saying it'd be nice to actually be able to use one without getting destroyed every time you recover to the stage

Not that it really matters anyway though. I think I was just in a 'I feel like complaining about something zelda related' kind of mood when I posted that.
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

♥
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
7,187
At least the fixed it in the sequel ^.^

At the cost of her toes (The sweetspot is small and it's only sweet on the first frame)
 
GKInfinity

GKInfinity

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
2,131
Location
Modesto CA
That reminds me, I got to play the most recent release of project M a little bit at DGDTJ. Zelda's kicks are disappointing though, because although they sweetspot easily again the knockback isn't nearly as good. Her wavedashing ability is surprisingly good though (or at least, much better than melee). Din's Fire is just... weird. And to keep this slightly on topic, nair is about the same

Project M actually isn't bad though. I was pretty pessimistic about it until I got to play it, but it plays very similarly to melee. It definitely has potential.
 
shanus

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
GKInfinity said:
That reminds me, I got to play the most recent release of project M a little bit at DGDTJ. Zelda's kicks are disappointing though, because although they sweetspot easily again the knockback isn't nearly as good. Her wavedashing ability is surprisingly good though (or at least, much better than melee). Din's Fire is just... weird. And to keep this slightly on topic, nair is about the same

Project M actually isn't bad though. I was pretty pessimistic about it until I got to play it, but it plays very similarly to melee. It definitely has potential.
Click to expand...
i believe Magus used identical knockbacks (pored directly from melee) to zelda's fair and bair, but I'll have to check
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Zone said:
Lol cuz you should be sweet spotting anyways or land on the ground and get ***** by a speedy character anyways right??
Click to expand...
what I usually go for is that zelda/sheik specific thing where you hit the edge and appear over the lip on the ground, so you have a little wind down but you don't have any time falling or landing lag. It pretty much never gets punished ever, so I have a very easy time recovering. if you don't know what I'm talking about, try it with sheik first. hers is easier.

1.2 doesn't really matter for me because I don't really use upsmash at all and it's way hard to DI the fsmash sans certain situations. like a lot of my edge guarding sometimes if I mess up is that I just let them have the edge, and when they come up I fsmash w/e they do. It beats pretty much anything from the edge I can think of except maybe a REALLY well placed sheik fair and that doesn't come up often because thats not how you edge guard sheik anyway. If you openly fsmash any char in 1.2 and they SDI the fsmash into you (the best way) you can dsmash them out and it combos and the SDI forces them to DI off of the ground so it can't be crouched either. The only exception I can think of is jigglypuff SDIs into fsmash while sleeping and does rest, so I just kick her. Since she can't crouch while sleeping, it's pretty easy to go for kick to another kick, either the weak or the strong kick for the 1st one but the 2nd one is the strong one. even if puff DIs down and away the 2x kick combo is generally reliable and a better way to punish rest anyway. so if you know how to play zelda correctly, she isn't really affected by either problem in the long run.
 
Zone

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I know what you're talking about mow. If you hit that lip you also can cut your up+b distance and decieve them. From my experience it only works when coming from below.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Zone said:
From my experience it only works when coming from below.
Click to expand...
correct. when i was practicing w/ m2k he would wait for me to go below the stage to do that trick and then hit my actual up B animation, something most players won't attack, they'll just try to react to your lag after the up B. it made recovery stupidly difficult vs his sheik, but marth/fox wasn't so bad.
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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Messages
8,413
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College Park, MD
You guys realize there's training mode for stuff like this. You can easily test which aerials are auto-cancellable in a matter of a few minutes.
 
Zone

Zone

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,483
Location
Pensacola, FL
I will sometimes tilt when i think they will roll behind me like when I jab
Their shield cuz tilt leads to **** when it lands most of the time
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
8,413
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College Park, MD
Short hop and nair as soon as you leave the ground (don't fast fall). You should have no lag upon landing (aside from the normal 4 frames).
 
TheLake

TheLake

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
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3,057
Location
Butler PA
But if you do have lag...

run

for god sakes run as fast as your "hi im the slowest character ever" legs can carry you!!!!
 
TheLake

TheLake

Smash Master
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Aug 8, 2007
Messages
3,057
Location
Butler PA
sheik has the same shoes ma doo

dont play if you cant catch the ball

or kick it in this case...
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
6,283
Location
Upstate NY
whats the fastest way to get from one side to the other? her run is so slow and her wd is jank i just roll all the way across fd lmao. up b sometimes i guess. or down b to run across to down b again lulz
 
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