~ Zelda Video and Critique Archive ~ (obselete thread/check stickies)

[KayLo!]

The only thing you need to worry about when dtilting at low percentages is to not try to follow up unless it trips. At low percentages, you actually suffer a frame disadvantage even when you hit with it, so it's a bit risky.

A lot of people instinctively shield/DI backwards after a dtilt, though, so you can try a grab if you're ballsy. Or just get out of their range after hitting them.

 

[Aibou]

Yea like when you are attacking someone right next to you it's hard to punish with fsmash because it's slow to come out. Dsmash is fast but it is punishable on block. At least with dtilt the low cooldwon makes it somewhat safe on shields.

Bad habits that I have include F-Smashing.

You use Naryu's smartly but be careful because that move also has a lot of lag.

Nayru's is my favorite Zelda move. I find it helpful when I end up with my back to my opponent, which happens a lot.

Edit: Don't worry too much about percentages......just use dtilt a lot lol.

Doesn't a trip from D-Tilt guarantee a grab?



EDIT @ KayLo: That's what I was thinking. You can't follow up after a d-tilt at low percents unless a trip occurs.

 

[zeldspazz]

It only guarantees a grab when it trips iirc

 

[KayLo!]

EDIT @ KayLo: That's what I was thinking. You can't follow up after a d-tilt at low percents unless a trip occurs.

Exactly.

Fresh dtilt gives you a frame advantage at ~30%.
Fully stale dtilt gives you an advantage at ~50%.

Before then, it's a judgment call whether to use it or not.

 

[Aibou]

Before then, it's a judgment call whether to use it or not.

And therein lies my problem, along with never hitting with it.

 

[KayLo!]

Comes with experience. Pretty soon it'll be second nature to you.

I'm out for the night. If I have time tomorrow, I'll take a look at your vids and see if I have anything to add that other people haven't said already.

 

[Aibou]

Comes with experience. Pretty soon it'll be second nature to you.

I'm out for the night. If I have time tomorrow, I'll take a look at your vids and see if I have anything to add that other people haven't said already.

Thank you KayLo! Good night

 

[WickedDeceit]

Er-hem. I'm gonna butt in to this thread to finally post some vids for my fellow Zeldas to critique. Both are against the same person, who will remain unnamed unless he says otherwise. Both were on wifi, though there was generally no lag. I don't remember the exact date, but I remember they were both fought on the same day about a week ago.


vs (Smashville) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIPauB_U9Cw

vs (Battlefield) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45Qd1bpd3Y8


I think I said everything that was important...Well, do what you will with them, critique people.

I like your Zelda

Against Wario, the middle two grab release to LK's whiffed because you full hopped the LK.
In general I think you need to mix up your Dsmash, Dtilt, and jab. Dsmash isn't as safe on block and the other two have much better follow-ups in most cases.

 

[NinjaLink]

Exactly.

Fresh dtilt gives you a frame advantage at ~30%.
Fully stale dtilt gives you an advantage at ~50%.

Before then, it's a judgment call whether to use it or not.

Percent is dependant on the weight of the character (heavier meaning more percent) to do the lock. Also the staleness.

If someone REALLY wants to make a chart feel free.....cause its gonna be awhile.

 

[Veggie123]

K I think you smash a little too much

Bad habits that I have include F-Smashing.

If you're going to choose a smash to spam, fsmash is the way to go. I believe it really only hurts you if your opponent outranges you or is close enough to jab/tilt you before you get it off. I'd like to see less dsmash though, you have a tendency to overuse it when you're close range (I only saw the video vs Pit). It can easily be substituted for dtilt like others have said...which can then have a dsmash followed right after I'd like to see more grabs too, I think a lot of people who play against Zelda underestimate its usability.

You kind of rely on spotdodging a lot to avoid getting hit and follow up with a smash, it's something I see a lot of Zelda's do since her smashes are usually good to go afterwards, it's really punishable/avoidable if your opponent picks up on it though.

Shielding grabbing is always an option to consider for mixing it up, especially when approached aerially since there isn't a danger of being grabbed yourself. And sometimes shield pushback is nice, since it'll sometimes space Zelda for an out of shield bair. Zelda has good out of shield options, so they're nice to keep in mind.

Nayru's was used which is good, but it was sometimes used in situations where there'd be a better move to use. It's good for covering Zelda's sides instead of dsmash, but it should be used more subtley so people won't expect it.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say I was quite fond of your platform play. Especially with those nice drop down fairs on Pit. Spacing for the most part was good as well, your Zelda is definitely on its way.

 

[Aibou]

If you're going to choose a smash to spam, fsmash is the way to go. I believe it really only hurts you if your opponent outranges you or is close enough to jab/tilt you before you get it off. I'd like to see less dsmash though, you have a tendency to overuse it when you're close range (I only saw the video vs Pit). It can easily be substituted for dtilt like others have said...which can then have a dsmash followed right after I'd like to see more grabs too, I think a lot of people who play against Zelda underestimate its usability.

You kind of rely on spotdodging a lot to avoid getting hit and follow up with a smash, it's something I see a lot of Zelda's do since her smashes are usually good to go afterwards, it's really punishable/avoidable if your opponent picks up on it though.

Shielding grabbing is always an option to consider for mixing it up, especially when approached aerially since there isn't a danger of being grabbed yourself. And sometimes shield pushback is nice, since it'll sometimes space Zelda for an out of shield bair. Zelda has good out of shield options, so they're nice to keep in mind.

Nayru's was used which is good, but it was sometimes used in situations where there'd be a better move to use. It's good for covering Zelda's sides instead of dsmash, but it should be used more subtley so people won't expect it.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say I was quite fond of your platform play. Especially with those nice drop down fairs on Pit. Spacing for the most part was good as well, your Zelda is definitely on its way.

I grab regularly, but only when I see a really good opening. Zelda's grab is kinda risky to me. I grabbed a lot in the Wario match (and even succeeded a few times).

Smashes are just a habit that I think I'm starting to grow out of. I u-tilt a bit more in place of u-smash. But, like I said before, d-tilting is harder for some reason.

 

[KayLo!]

Percent is dependant on the weight of the character (heavier meaning more percent) to do the lock. Also the staleness.

If someone REALLY wants to make a chart feel free.....cause its gonna be awhile.

I said those're the percentages where you get a frame advantage, not the lock. -_- For the lock, you need a large enough advantage, which doesn't happen til a bit later.

And obviously it's dependent on weight. Figured that was common sense, hence the "~" before the numbers (which translates to "about," btw). Those numbers are for Mario, though, who's the average, middle-of-the-road character.

I also noted that the percentage is different for a stale dtilt.

........Did you even read my post? Or did you quote it for no reason?

 

[-Mars-]

Zeldspazz wanted to see japanese Zeldas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2BPSq1x-n8

Same old usual standthereshootindinsfireballgettingtossedaroundlikearagdoll Zelda that we all know and love .

 

[Kataefi]

Lol you're right. Is that Earth's Zelda?

 

[-Mars-]

No. I've seen Earth's Sheik/Zelda......I think I saw him go Zelda for a stock in a match before. He was pretty smart but it wasn't anything too special from what I remember.

 

[zeldspazz]

Hahaha thanks Mars xD You be lurkin Tactical I see

 

[NinjaLink]

I said those're the percentages where you get a frame advantage, not the lock. -_- For the lock, you need a large enough advantage, which doesn't happen til a bit later.

And obviously it's dependent on weight. Figured that was common sense, hence the "~" before the numbers (which translates to "about," btw). Those numbers are for Mario, though, who's the average, middle-of-the-road character.

I also noted that the percentage is different for a stale dtilt.

........Did you even read my post? Or did you quote it for no reason?

my bad. Not many ppl kno its dependant on weight. I thought sonic was the middle char not mario :\ idk anymore lol

 

[Aibou]

Zeldspazz wanted to see japanese Zeldas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2BPSq1x-n8

Same old usual standthereshootindinsfireballgettingtossedaroundlikearagdoll Zelda that we all know and love .

Wow, that Zelda's even worse than mine lol.


And on a more serious note, I think this Japanese Zelda is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtPDmkW2vw&feature=related

Though her opponent kinda sucked...

 

[-Mars-]

Video was from 08' lol.

 

[NinjaLink]

Wow, that Zelda's even worse than mine lol.


And on a more serious note, I think this Japanese Zelda is better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtPDmkW2vw&feature=related

Though her opponent kinda sucked...

The opponent was horrible.


CAN WE GET A ZELDA THAT DOESNT SPOTDODGE TO LIFE ANYMORE?!?!?!?!

 

[Veggie123]

Let's not forget about Europe people, Jujux has a very nice Zelda.

This may have been posted before but,

http://www.youtube.com/watchv=5n_MEHLPfNk&feature=PlayList&p=E5C917834950999A&index=0&playnext=1
(Anyone else hear "Do Your Ears Hang Low?"?)

 

[-Mars-]

New Mikey Lenetia Vids! Get Em while theyre hot! Search "AnkokuSmash" on youtube. There's a lot of them

 

[Aibou]

New Mikey Lenetia Vids! Get Em while theyre hot! Search "AnkokuSmash" on youtube. There's a lot of them

I just watched them all. Mikey is just a beast! Learned a couple of things from him, I did.

 

[KayLo!]

Aibou, I just watched your vids, and I'm gonna soft counter what Mars said: depending on the amount of lag, I find that smashing is better than jabbing online. Lingering hitboxes like fsmash seem to work better when there's any kind of lag, and the slow startup isn't as easily reacted to.

If there's not a lot of lag, then, yeah. More jabs and stuff. But it's hard to tell from a wifi video.

You spotdodge too much, though, and at inappropriate times. Sometimes you'd spotdodge when they weren't near you..... x.o Or spotdodge before counterattacking when it wasn't necessary. That does nothing but give the opponent extra time to block or otherwise avoid your next move.

That's really all I have to say -- didn't know they were wifi vids before I clicked. Weirdly, it wasn't the description that tipped me off..... it was the beginning of the first vid. In 90% of wifi matches, there's a huge pause at the beginning where nobody moves, lolol.

 

[Aibou]

Aibou, I just watched your vids, and I'm gonna soft counter what Mars said: depending on the amount of lag, I find that smashing is better than jabbing online. Lingering hitboxes like fsmash seem to work better when there's any kind of lag, and the slow startup isn't as easily reacted to.

If there's not a lot of lag, then, yeah. More jabs and stuff. But it's hard to tell from a wifi video.

You spotdodge too much, though, and at inappropriate times. Sometimes you'd spotdodge when they weren't near you..... x.o Or spotdodge before counterattacking when it wasn't necessary. That does nothing but give the opponent extra time to block or otherwise avoid your next move.

That's really all I have to say -- didn't know they were wifi vids before I clicked. Weirdly, it wasn't the description that tipped me off..... it was the beginning of the first vid. In 90% of wifi matches, there's a huge pause at the beginning where nobody moves, lolol.

Curse my terrible habits. And there wasn't any lag in the matches. I wouldn't have posted one with lag since a laggy match impacts a player's performance. I perform terribly with lag, even with Zelda.

But yeah spotdodging, my mortal enemy. Though sometimes, spotdodges come out by accident when I'm trying to do an attack out of shield. I have no clue why that happens, but some spotdodges weren't intentional.

 

[-Mars-]

If the match was online...it had input lag.

 

[Aibou]

If the match was online...it had input lag.

That would make sense as I seem to do it less offline. Though I didn't notice any real input lag in the matches. But I guess all online matches have even a slight bit of input lag (that still affects the game)

 

[KayLo!]

All online matches have a minimum of 6-7 frames of input lag..... I think it's 6. Even with a perfect connection.

 

[Aibou]

Oh okay, that makes things a heck of a lot clearer now. I was wondering why the heck I could barely accomplish an OOS move without spotdodging by mistake. The majority of my play is online (until I find a way into an offline tourney, which I'm probably not even ready for), so I would need to master correct OOS timing.

Also, there was a question I wanted to ask...but I think I'll put it in the Q&A section.

 

[KayLo!]

Do you live near the FL Brawl scene at all? I know a few FL Pikas who play against/near Seibrik and Nick Riddle and them.

I dunno the geography of your state, though, so you could live miles and miles from them for all I know. x.x

I think they're close to Orlando..... maybe.....?

 

[Aibou]

Do you live near the FL Brawl scene at all? I know a few FL Pikas who play against/near Seibrik and Nick Riddle and them.

I dunno the geography of your state, though, so you could live miles and miles from them for all I know. x.x

I think they're close to Orlando..... maybe.....?

Nah I'm not near Orlando. I'm like on the outskirts of Miami (in a kind of dead town). Though transportation and school are other problems that I face when it comes to playing in tourneys.

 

[-Mars-]

Hey you will never be truly "ready" for your first tourny. My first tourny I was getting 3 stocked by a Sonic lol.

Just get out to one and experience it. i think after your first tourny once you experience how gay people play you'll determine whether you want to truly be a competitive player or whether you just want to kick it with your friends on the weekends.

 

[Aibou]

I can't say whether or not I'd like to go competitive because I haven't had the proper experience yet. Though I deeply want to bring Zelda into the competitive scene (just like the rest of us), so I'm definitely gonna enter some tourneys whenever I get the chance.

...3 stocked by a Sonic? Was it with Zelda or Sheik (I believe you use both correct?)?

 

[-Mars-]

Yea lol it was with my Sheik.....it was my first tourny ever lol and I had like NO Sonic matchup experience. That's one of those matchups where if you're not patient and don't know the matchup you just get Raaaaped.

He's still the only person on my state's PR that I have never taken a game off of and now he moved to Cali beating peple like Tyrant and whatnot.

Actually forget that he went MK on me my second tourny and I beat him with all Zelda one game.....then he went Sonic the other two games and ***** me again

Oh and yea I play both but i'm weird in that I : would rather play Sheik vs. Pikachu & Ice Climbers and I use Zelda for random characters like Falco.

It's nice being able to play both cuz I can always determine if I should transform....sometimes it's stage dependent, sometimes it's just a gut feeling, Or like Falco I can avoid CG percentages and then switch to Sheik and tilt ****

 

[Dre89]

What was the Sonic's name?

 

[-Mars-]

__X__. 10 Sonics

 

[KayLo!]

would rather play Sheik vs. Pikachu & Ice Climbers

That makes zero sense, lol. That's like saying you love to play Ganon vs. DD -- oh wait, Vex likes to do that too sometimes. Y'all weird. Getting CG'd isn't fun at all.

Aibou, your nerves will probably get in the way your first tourney anyway. Besides a rare few, a majority of people play somewhat worse than their best during their first tournament because they don't know what to expect. Better to just get it over with and not worry about if you're "ready" or not.

Just do it!

 

[-Mars-]

That makes zero sense, lol. That's like saying you love to play Ganon vs. DD -- oh wait, Vex likes to do that too sometimes. Y'all weird. Getting CG'd isn't fun at all.

Yea it's not fun.....which is why I don't get CG'ed. I make sure the first nuetral isn't FD, then I ban FD. I CP Lylat and it's really hard to catch me lol. I platform camp and play hit and run and i'm constantly charging needles occasionally landing so I can attempt to land needle storms. Icies and Pikachu both have *hitty grab ranges lol.

In fact Pikachu is kind of simple imo(not easy mind you, just simple) in that he tilt locks really well so even if I lose most of my stock I can talk half of his with a lock, His CG doesn't even work after like 50% iirc so I only have to run away for like the first half of my stock, and I have GR DACUS on him so if he gets grabbed by me at around 90-95%.......he's dead.

 

[KayLo!]

He has ****ty grab range, but he has kick *** grab setups. x.o A few of Pika's moves lead to a grab on Sheik (and a lot of characters), both aerials and ground moves.

I mean, if you can platform camp to perfection, that's cool, but don't underestimate Pika's ability to get a grab simply because of his grab range.

Just words of caution and whatnot. Not that your region has any good Pikas afaik, so I guess you don't have to worry about it.

 

[-Mars-]

He has ****ty grab range, but he has kick *** grab setups. x.o A few of Pika's moves lead to a grab on Sheik (and a lot of characters), both aerials and ground moves.

I mean, if you can platform camp to perfection, that's cool, but don't underestimate Pika's ability to get a grab simply because of his grab range.

Just words of caution and whatnot. Not that your region has any good Pikas afaik, so I guess you don't have to worry about it.

Yea He has some like AC fair to grab correct? I jabbed before he grabbed me a couple times......don't know if that should work all the time.

It's still hard to avoid the grab but I mean I only have to avoid a grab to 50% and he can't grab me if i'm airborne and I make sure i'm careful where I land. I don't have too big of a problem of trading aerials or just simply eating 50% either.

Not gonna lie, i haven't played any well known Pikachu's or anything. I did play a knowledgeable, solid Pikachu in Arizona back in September.....Isaacard from new mexico I think or something like that. He wasn't amazing but he knew what he was doing. He got some crazy utilt to QAC lock bull**** on me on one of my stocks lol.

Don't know if there's any Chu's in Socal but we're traveling up there next weekend so thanks for the tips.