Zelda Social Thread

[WhiteLightnin]

FINALLY DONE WITH FINALS! Also, I just got to 10,000 VR in Marvio Kart 8

Also wait, is Black Mamba actually black? That's awesome​

Wow a double header! lol Congratulations! That is awesome. I bet you feel much more relaxed. I'm actually heading back to Ohio for my 5th year reunion right now.

 

[Downdraft]

I thank the Zelda Social for their support, knowledge, resilience, and friendliness over the past 14 months.
Thanks largely to the members of this board I have received 250 likes.
This post commemorates the trophy I will receive and my appreciation of my Zelda brethren—we need female Zeldas. I hope to persevere to 500 with your help. Have a great weekend!

 

[Downdraft]

Solution to Zelda's mobility problems

Spoiler

Legalize Infiinite Glacier and make more legal stages with low traction.
Modify the air or gravity on certain stages to increase the distance characters travel aerially.

Spoiler

 

[WhiteCrow]

I decided to make a blog to collectivize my random Zelda thoughts. Check it out if you're interested, ignore it if you're not. https://pressingwordsfromcrow.wordpress.com/

 

[otheusrex]

hey guys, i don't want to seem like an attention hog but last tuesday I just released a 3.5 build where she has sd remix style dins fire. I finally learned how to tweak it so that there's no returning wisp on dins fire and thus far no one seems to notice. With all the dins fire theory crafting I've heard on these boards, I would have thought that a lot of people would be interested in seeing this. I'm not mad or trying to grab the spotlight, just, well I KNOW most of us would/should be interested in taking a look and having a discussion about it

 

[Downdraft]

http://smashboards.com/threads/tier-list-speculation.331666/page-782#post-19242733
Please check out my post regarding Zelda and other characters that were drastically altered in 3.5. Thanks.

 

[4tlas]

http://smashboards.com/threads/tier-list-speculation.331666/page-782#post-19242733
Please check out my post regarding Zelda and other characters that were drastically altered in 3.5. Thanks.

Your post seems to imply that Zelda was fine in 3.02 and only got worse, which was not the case. She was still bad then, and while she got nerfed in many ways, she did get a few buffs to compensate. Dins places faster and covers her normal range blindspot, the return of Dins applies pressure as a true projectile, and teleshort enables recoveries to sweetspot ledges from below and return to the ground from the air with less endlag.

Other than that, I vaguely agree with everything you've said. Personally, I find more options to be both more enjoyable and better balanced, as you always have a soft counter option available, even if less efficient. However, many of the options in 3.02 were in fact blatantly overpowered. The solution was to, in most cases, weaken those options rather than remove them entirely, but this is not what happened. Many of Zelda's were outright removed (Nayru's invuln, love jumping, multi-dins, supersweetspots) and that made me angry, and now sad. But I'm tired of arguing with people, so I generally stick to the Zelda boards where people are civil.

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Alright everyone. Since the idea of us having a moderator to help organize our threads has seen a lot of interest lately I messaged @AlphaZealot, Smashboards' owner, to inquire about it and the possibility of perhaps having an election. I mentioned names of Zeldas who had mentioned interest in the position. Hopefully we'll hear back soon.

Hey everyone. I just wanted to give an update that I still have not heard back on the moderator potential election request yet. I am going to tag @AlphaZealot here again because I realized the first time I tagged him I had added it from an edit. I asked for Kaeldiar's help to test about adding tags with edits and we found that it does not show up on notifications. Thanks Kaeldiar!

Edit: 5/28/15 Great news everyone, I have heard back from AlphaZealot! He has put me in touch with the staff member who is in charge of the Smashboard's staff and I am now awaiting reply from him. Also the PMDT has their own setup for their part of the boards so of course we would also need their blessing. I'll edit here when I learn anything more. Keep your fingers crossed!

 

[Corjha]

hey guys, i don't want to seem like an attention hog but last tuesday I just released a 3.5 build where she has sd remix style dins fire. I finally learned how to tweak it so that there's no returning wisp on dins fire and thus far no one seems to notice. With all the dins fire theory crafting I've heard on these boards, I would have thought that a lot of people would be interested in seeing this. I'm not mad or trying to grab the spotlight, just, well I KNOW most of us would/should be interested in taking a look and having a discussion about it

So are you saying that after it detonates it doesn't return, it just disappears? Would you still be able to detonate it manually? Does this mean that after it detonates you can immediately place another?

If so, that sounds balanced and really good. Detonating on return is a waste of time, you can almost never convert off it and you can't maintain pressure with dins when you can't throw another one out until the returning one, uh, returns.

 

[otheusrex]

So are you saying that after it detonates it doesn't return, it just disappears? Would you still be able to detonate it manually? Does this mean that after it detonates you can immediately place another?

If so, that sounds balanced and really good. Detonating on return is a waste of time, you can almost never convert off it and you can't maintain pressure with dins when you can't throw another one out until the returning one, uh, returns.

Yup that's what it means.

I think whatever you ahve dins do you can make it balanced, but this particular execution of Dins I think ends up being too OP for shooting offstage opponents and needs some tweaking

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Alright Zeldas I have another update regarding the moderator topic. Currently the administrator who is in charge of staff is talking with the PMDT and staff on the Project M boards regarding our request. He explained to me that typically the PM character boards have lighter traffic than other character boards so it has been the responsibility of the category moderators for PM to handle character subforums. Smash 4 has character board moderators as the traffic is higher. Brawl/Melee also have fewer character specific moderators as they are far less active than they used to be. Regardless of this information the administrator informed me that the request for a moderator is being considered and that they will be looking at users and the board activity itself. He also told me that whether or not we are given a moderator, he will make sure that the Zelda boards have better handling and organization.

 

[the_irish_dude]

I support having a White Lightning Mod

 

[TimeSmash]

I support WhiteLightnin as mod of these boards.


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[Kaeldiar]

I would support @ WhiteLightnin for PM Zelda mod. @ 4tlas , @ Downdraft , and @ otheusrex are all pretty active as well. Honestly, I think that any of the Zeldas would make a good mod. We just need someone who is here every now and then, in case we need a thread locked or stickied. There isn't so much traffic that we need a patrol officer, but when something needs to be done that only a mod can do, it's hard to get someone.

 

[otheusrex]

I think whiteligting would be best

 

[4tlas]

Pretty much what Kaeldiar said. This isn't to have a police force, since we're all civil and care about the community. This is about having someone who is active among us have the powers Smashboards reserves from us. That way we can take care of each other

 

[the_irish_dude]

I would make the best mod cuz I would look the other way when things get tough and rely on a mute elf looking boy to save the forums.

 

[TimeSmash]

I mean really like others have said the mod would be for keeping these boards more organized, professional-looking and easy to access. Things like the Triforce of Whathaveyou threads should really be stickied, as they all have proven to be hot topics within these boards.

Aaaaand maybe the Temple of Time thread if I ever update it. Which I will do now

 

[BJN39]

Or I could mod here as well.


*Shot*

 

[TimeSmash]

SHOTS DIN'S FIRED!

 

[WhiteLightnin]

I support having a White Lightning Mod

I support WhiteLightnin as mod of these boards.


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I would support @ WhiteLightnin for PM Zelda mod. @ 4tlas , @ Downdraft , and @ otheusrex are all pretty active as well. Honestly, I think that any of the Zeldas would make a good mod. We just need someone who is here every now and then, in case we need a thread locked or stickied. There isn't so much traffic that we need a patrol officer, but when something needs to be done that only a mod can do, it's hard to get someone.

I think whiteligting would be best

Honestly Lightning, I can't think of anyone more fitting to mod these waters. You've more than showed your dedication to the boards and have been a beacon for new players. These halls would be empty if you hadn't filled them.

@ WhiteLightnin regardless of what everyone says I stand by you not being worthy of moderating until you have beaten me in an iron man match.

But honestly I would also be pleased if you became a mod. you are free to skip the iron man match for now. But understand you can't run from me forever.

WhiteLightning for mod pretty please. Real nice guy and very knowledgable Zelda player. Can't name a better candidate at the moment.

I too think it'd be a great idea to have a dedicated PM Zelda forum moderator for:

• Organizing the disorganised threads in our forum,
• Handling the sometimes heated discussions regarding Zelda changes, saltiness, and the like, and
• Ensuring the unity of our Zelda community and the integration of our community to the wider PM and Smash scene.

And it seems unanimous, but WhiteLightning would be an ideal candidate due to:

• His passion for Zelda and the growth of our community,
• His calm and collected nature, and
• His initiative, which has already been demonstrated well.

Wow, I don't really know what to say. I am honored and deeply moved by all of your support. I feel really privileged to be among such a fun and dedicated group of people. The fact that we could use a moderator for solely organizational purposes with little to no need of mediating quarrels is a major testament to our community. You guys are the best!

 

[WhiteCrow]

Honestly Lightning, I can't think of anyone more fitting to mod these waters. You've more than showed your dedication to the boards and have been a beacon for new players. These halls would be empty if you hadn't filled them.

 

[lmazard]

@ WhiteLightnin regardless of what everyone says I stand by you not being worthy of moderating until you have beaten me in an iron man match.

But honestly I would also be pleased if you became a mod. you are free to skip the iron man match for now. But understand you can't run from me forever.

 

[Heero Yuy]

WhiteLightning for mod pretty please. Real nice guy and very knowledgable Zelda player. Can't name a better candidate at the moment.

 

[luxingo]

I too think it'd be a great idea to have a dedicated PM Zelda forum moderator for:

• Organizing the disorganised threads in our forum,
• Handling the sometimes heated discussions regarding Zelda changes, saltiness, and the like, and
• Ensuring the unity of our Zelda community and the integration of our community to the wider PM and Smash scene.

And it seems unanimous, but WhiteLightning would be an ideal candidate due to:

• His passion for Zelda and the growth of our community,
• His calm and collected nature, and
• His initiative, which has already been demonstrated well.

 

[WhiteCrow]

https://pressingwordsfromcrow.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/i-dub-this-technique-wind-cancelling/

 

[Kaeldiar]

https://pressingwordsfromcrow.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/i-dub-this-technique-wind-cancelling/

Ledge-cancelling the shorten? Yeah, definitely a super useful trick. The timing takes some practice, but it's the fastest way to get out of it. It's really nothing new. I've been practicing it since Day 1, but you don't see it often because it's very difficult to do consistently. Props to you for getting it down to enough consistency that you feel it's worth bringing up!

 

[otheusrex]

I too think it'd be a great idea to have a dedicated PM Zelda forum moderator for:

• Organizing the disorganised threads in our forum,
• Handling the sometimes heated discussions regarding Zelda changes, saltiness, and the like, and
• Ensuring the unity of our Zelda community and the integration of our community to the wider PM and Smash scene.

And it seems unanimous, but WhiteLightning would be an ideal candidate due to:

• His passion for Zelda and the growth of our community,
• His calm and collected nature, and
• His initiative, which has already been demonstrated well.

Whitelightning for President!

 

[luxingo]

Random fact: Zelda's double jump makes a really weird sound as she spins around in the air (it's really soft though so you might have to turn up the volume and turn down the music).

 

[Kaeldiar]

@ WhiteCrow , I am SO FREAKING GLAD you posted about ledge-cancelled telecancel. To be completely honest, it had sort of slipped my mind, because I've been focusing on more important tech for a long time...like getting consistent shorten distances required for the more advanced techs. Anyway, today I focused on it as my "AT of the day" and played some of my best matches ever! It significantly sped up my game, and I almost took out a Lucario who routinely 3-stocks me. It came down to last-stock last-hit for both games I lost, and I was able to take a game off him in friendlies (something I had never done before)

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Hey Zeldas! After the head of staff spoke with a few PMDT members, they have decided that they would still like things to remain the same without having moderators for character-specific boards. However, I have been informed that several PMDT members would be happy to help us with organizing our boards. I talked with several Zeldas today to help with coming up with ideas for the organization of the boards. We are still working out the details but for starters we were thinking of asking for getting the Zelda Social Thread stickied. @ TimeSmash and @ WhiteCrow , some ideas were discussed regarding the Triforce of Wisdom and Power threads that we would like to explore with you. That conversation will be pertinent to deciding what direction we want to go with the organizing process. We can then decide on requests for what other threads should be stickied and how the remaining threads should be organized. How does that sound?

 

[WhiteCrow]

Explore away! Thanks for keeping us posted Lightning. Organizing the boards would cut down on a lot of the doubly posted content.

 

[BJN39]

Great stuff! I'm glad to hear that there will at least get to be some attention to the organization here, even if it isn't in the form of a new mod.


Also, Zelda Social Sticky! Zelda Social Sticky! xD

 

[WhiteLightnin]

Project M 3.6 Beta is out!

 

[Downdraft]

Project M 3.6 Beta is out!

Where's the excitement? Have our Zeldas grown busier or simply left?

 

[Trollinguy]

Busier. The problem with having an educated, tight knit community is that no one wants to jump to conclusions and get excited too early. No one wants to hype incase she was nerfed or complain imcase she was buffed. Though at this point I feel preety confident she got a very slight buff.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Busier. The problem with having an educated, tight knit community is that no one wants to jump to conclusions and get excited too early. No one wants to hype incase she was nerfed or complain imcase she was buffed. Though at this point I feel preety confident she got a very slight buff.

She got nerfed, but she's better, because she was fixed. Some of her tools did not work properly in 3.5, and those were FIXES. If you look at the rest of her Changelog, it's straight nerfs.

That said, we've been very active in other threads. The Social itself has been more dead because we've been busy discussing specifics

 

[Magus420]

...What???

There is literally ONE nerf there. The reverse ledgegrab while invisible on up-b change. That's it. I see at least 5 buffs, even if some are minor they aren't nerfs and they aren't bugfixes either (kick animations less vulnerable on startup and hold more range on late frames, u-air electric hit better range, the top d-air hitbox you never hit with when trying to kill someone with the move but does hit on a grounded opponent combos for longer, up-b GtG cancel is reversible, air animations/attacks are shifted forward giving slightly more ground to air reach). The rest of the improvements I could see being argued as 'fixes' in some way.

I am extremely confused right now, lol.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Gonna take this point by point, because you had a lot of information there...which is good. I would hope that you'd have more information than I do, since you made this build of her.

...What???

There is literally ONE nerf there. The reverse ledgegrab while invisible on up-b change. That's it.

That's a very big nerf, and I felt that it outweighed the buffs I saw

kick animations less vulnerable on startup and hold more range on late frames

The changelog says
"Revamped animations to look nicer for their speed. Leg extends faster on startup, and doesn't pull away during late hit frames."
I really didn't think that made any difference to her hurtboxes. It hadn't occurred to me

u-air electric hit better range,

Yeah, straight buff there, though minor

the top d-air hitbox you never hit with when trying to kill someone with the move but does hit on a grounded opponent combos for longer,

In what world are Zeldas combo'ing with sourspot d-air? I honestly want to know

up-b GtG cancel is reversible,

I see this as a fix. When Telecancel replaced Teledash, I assume it was supposed to have about the same grounded utility, though a little bit worse, as you lost the full mobility of a wavedash (and the ability to grab items). Making it reversible (and decreasing the endlag back to what it was in 3.02) gave it enough utility to actually be used. Telecancel in 3.5 was just lacking too much to be truly useful like Teledash was.

air animations/attacks are shifted forward giving slightly more ground to air reach).

That's news.

So all in all, that's how I see it. Big nerf, microbuff, microbuff, micronerf (to be honest, I'd rather have the sourspot be a little better at killing), a fix, and news, respectively[/quote][/quote]

 

[Magus420]

You said the rest of the changelist other than fixes is "straight nerfs". I don't know how else you'd expect that to be interpreted other than "the rest of the items in question are nerfs", but it certainly didn't sound like "the telesnap nerf is more significant than the sum of the buffs" to me, which was where my post was coming from. TBH though, I feel the overall effect the telesnap change has on her capabilities is quite overstated. Not that the difference between having no vulnerable frame and 1 vulnerable frame isn't significant, but the situations where that 1 frame does matter and other options of getting onto the ledge and using/timing/maintaining ledge invincibility properly can't get the job done are extremely few.


The brawl kick animations were pretty sluggish to extend and pulled back right as they began hitting, while the melee kicks I based the new 3.6 animations on are snappier and more forceful (in addition to aesthetic stuff like pulling the dress back some to see she's actually doing a kick and not a dress smack). For example, instead of like (going off memory here) 4-5 frames windup on f-air followed by 4-3 frames extending the leg out there and hit it's now 6 frames windup and 2 extension. Then on the late hit frames the leg stays held out fully extended.


If you miss the sweetspot when trying to actually kill with the d-air, you are connecting with the unchanged lower flub hitbox on the foot unless your aim was very far off. The upper flub is the one you get with low lcanceled d-airs on a grounded opponent, and has utility that works best when it doesn't cause knockdown, which the reduced KBG improves. Nontumble d-air combos directly into kick (among other things) if timed well and cannot be ASDIed down.

Ledgehop crossup d-air flub -> retreating b-air them back offstage the way they came is afaik the optimal (and stylish to boot =P) punish on hogged recovery landing lag at the edge at mid percents. It's something I use on Marth/Sheik in melee, where it works up until around 70% when it begins to pop up and can then be DIed/ASDIed into the floor and teched (generally switching to b-throws at that point). That upper hitbox does +1 damage and +5 BKB from melee -> PM (the flubs are basically buffed normal melee hits. brawl flubs are even worse), but that also made it knockdown at around 55% or so. With the 3.6 KBG change that nontumble combo window for flub d-airs extends back up to 72ish.

In PM she has sweetspot d-air and flub u-air from the ledge as well, but the former can be DIed out of range and plain sends too high around 50-60 or so, and the latter is easily ASDIed down whether it tumbles or not since it sends upward, so those are unreliable punishes once they're familiar with those options.