- Jan 10, 2013
I'd agree with that. I'm not the most flawless technical player and I manage to telesnap to the ledge enough to know that it's still viable with only a modest amount of swag. I've never really felt Zelda wonts for edge gaurding capability anyways.You said the rest of the changelist other than fixes is "straight nerfs". I don't know how else you'd expect that to be interpreted other than "the rest of the items in question are nerfs", but it certainly didn't sound like "the telesnap nerf is more significant than the sum of the buffs" to me, which was where my post was coming from. TBH though, I feel the overall effect the telesnap change has on her capabilities is quite overstated. Not that the difference between having no vulnerable frame and 1 vulnerable frame isn't significant, but the situations where that 1 frame does matter and other options of getting onto the ledge and using/timing/maintaining ledge invincibility properly can't get the job done are extremely few.
maybe I don't understand actually... if her legs are extended sooner before the hitboxes doesn't that mean her hurtboxes are closer to the opponent than they were before? which would mean that they are actually less safe than they were. The same thing goes for them being extended for longer afterwards too. Although, aesthetically these kicks are much better. Did you do the animations or did someone else?The brawl kick animations were pretty sluggish to extend and pulled back right as they began hitting, while the melee kicks I based the new 3.6 animations on are snappier and more forceful (in addition to aesthetic stuff like pulling the dress back some to see she's actually doing a kick and not a dress smack). For example, instead of like (going off memory here) 4-5 frames windup on f-air followed by 4-3 frames extending the leg out there and hit it's now 6 frames windup and 2 extension. Then on the late hit frames the leg stays held out fully extended.
I trust what you're saying is true, but without digging too hard for it, Dairing an opponent offstage is noticeably worse now. i don't understand how, nor have I taken the time to figure out what's going on, but it's definitely worse, so take that as you willIf you miss the sweetspot when trying to actually kill with the d-air, you are connecting with the unchanged lower flub hitbox on the foot unless your aim was very far off. The upper flub is the one you get with low lcanceled d-airs on a grounded opponent, and has utility that works best when it doesn't cause knockdown, which the reduced KBG improves. Nontumble d-air combos directly into kick (among other things) if timed well and cannot be ASDIed down.
Here's where I think things need to be put into perspective a little better. It's cool that dair had/has a niche utility that's been recognize and now enhanced, but it simply isn't useful for Zelda so it doesn't matter. There's no reason I can think of where you would have an advantage going for a late hit dair on a grounded opponent that wouldn't have yielded better results than just going for another move. Same thing goes for the upair autocancel buff (although because of the size buff, i'm sure the spacing for upair to link both hits is better now, rather than worsened like dair) because while cool, it isn't something a smart player should ever attempt theoretically. It doesn't really hurt anything though to hide a few swag improvements where only skilled and cheeky players can access them, but at the same time this aren't real buffs in that they should be considered when weighing her comparative balance between builds.Ledgehop crossup d-air flub -> retreating b-air them back offstage the way they came is afaik the optimal (and stylish to boot =P) punish on hogged recovery landing lag at the edge at mid percents. It's something I use on Marth/Sheik in melee, where it works up until around 70% when it begins to pop up and can then be DIed/ASDIed into the floor and teched (generally switching to b-throws at that point). That upper hitbox does +1 damage and +5 BKB from melee -> PM (the flubs are basically buffed normal melee hits. brawl flubs are even worse), but that also made it knockdown at around 55% or so. With the 3.6 KBG change that nontumble combo window for flub d-airs extends back up to 72ish
Now, even if I'm wrong on that and there are some strange sort of reasons why going for a late hit dair on a grounded opponent (who isn't or you expect not to be shielding, at that), they still can't be common enough where the improvement to that utility makes any sort of difference, not really. If it did, then it would already be noticeable and you wouldn't have needed to explain it.
This isn't to say that that change matters though. It's not something I'm concerned at all about. But summing up, I guess I'd come to the same conclusion that Kaeldiar did that overall she was nerfed in a sense because the improvements were all just 'fixes' to things that should have worked that way anyways or microbuffs that actually obsolete