Zelda Social Thread

[Muhti]

Talk about Zelda from Project M here!

 

[BJN39]

Goody! Let's get cracking!

Edit: This changelist in now OFFICIAL!

[COLLAPSE="Code:"]Zelda Change List
-Zelda's Jab
Priority on hitboxes altered to work better on heavyweights' hitstun animations
Animation and graphics cleaned up some
Linking hits use slightly negative angles, which prevents landing animations from being triggered on very slightly sloped areas which can cause the rest of the move to whiff.

-Zelda's Dash Attack
Animation adjusted to be closer to Melee
Angle on sweetspot adjusted to be like other, similar attacks

-Zelda's Forward Tilt
Tipper hitbox adjusted in knockback and SDIability slightly to be more conducive to combos
Hit sound effects adjusted for sweetspot hitboxes
Hitboxes adjusted to give proper spacing for the tipper hitbox

-Zelda's Up Tilt
Hit duration very slightly reduced as a visual correction (1 frame)
Graphical effects edited to match the new timings
Launch has less base knockback but more growth, dealing less knockback at lower damages but more at higher damage
Launch angle of first half of the attack increased slightly

-Zelda's Forward Smash
Innermost hitboxes on linking hits have reduced hitlag
Linking hits use slightly negative angles, which prevents landing animations from being triggered on very slightly sloped areas which can cause the rest of the move to whiff.
Has a new linking hitbox far inside her only intended to prevent whiff issues in-close on heavyweights
Launch hit has less base knockback but more growth, dealing less knockback at lower damages but more at higher damage, also taking greater effect with smash charge.

-Zelda's Up Smash
Hit sound effects on linking hits altered to be softer
Final hit has slightly increased base knockback
Linking hits have slightly reduced SDI capacity, enough to control your launch point when hit by the move but never enough to escape it in any normal circumstances.

-Zelda's Neutral Air graphical effects terminate earlier, closer to when the move stops hitting

-Zelda's Forward Air and Back Air
Nonmagical flubs have more effectual damage and knockback growth values to not lead directly into sweetspots as easily
Melee sized sweetspots (first frame) regained a bit more of their old damage and knockback power
Melee sized electric flubs (later frames) now use average KO move values instead of flub values
Bair critical sweetspot deals slightly more knockback and shield damage

-Zelda's Up Air
Fire hitboxes (both) have slightly more base knockback
Hit sound effect of large fire hitbox upgraded
Has very slightly increased shield damage on large fire hitbox

-Zelda's Down Air
Sweetspot duration reduced
Sweetspot now has shield damage
Damage and knockback growth against grounded targets significantly increased
Knockback growth against aerial targets slightly increased
Graphics altered to better match the presence of the sweetspot
Thigh flub hitbox has slightly improved power and combo potential from ground bounces
Animation adjusted for the hitboxes to be aligned with the axis for its hit duration

-Zelda's Turn Grab is able to grab very low crouching targets

-Zelda's Forward Throw slightly reduced in knockback growth

-Zelda's Down Throw graphical effects altered to be prettier and similar to Melee

-Nayru's Love
Ground version of the move deals more damage
Air version of the move has quicker intangibility startup, equal to ground version
Knockback on air version adjusted slightly, uses less base but more growth to induce tumble later
Grounded Nayru's is visually larger, and aerial Nayru's visually smaller to better show their hitbox size difference
Size of the last hitbox on air version was reduced to consistent with the linking hits

-Din's Fire
Has slightly quicker travel speed
Has slightly lower maximum channel time
Projectile starts out smaller, but ending size is unchanged
Damage growth with travel duration on explosion hitbox altered slightly, now does a minimum of 10 damage and a maximum of 20
Mine hitbox has slightly more base knockback and slightly less knockback growth for combo purposes

-Farore's Wind
Landing lag reduced
Air reappearance transitions properly into SpecialFall

-Zelda's Transform graphical effects adjusted to better match their timing
-Zelda's Final Smash uses the new Light element[/COLLAPSE]

 

[HanAmes]

Din's Fire also seems to have a smaller hit box when it detonates.

 

[BJN39]

Are you sure? They still seem especially huge.

I was doing BtT with Zelda and an almost full size hitbox hit the target from pretty far. The animation wasn't touching it at all. (Not even the tiny pulse waves.)

Same thing happened in training against Mario.

 

[HanAmes]

Are you sure? They still seem especially huge.

I was doing BtT with Zelda and an almost full size hitbox hit the target from pretty far. The animation wasn't touching it at all. (Not even the tiny pulse waves.)

Same thing happened in training against Mario.

I could be wrong, though...because some of the time, I had a hard time connecting. To me it's gotten a bit smaller; either that, or I need extensive more practice.

 

[Wavebuster]

The explosion reaches as far as that shockwave circle indicates. The "pulsing" animation before the explosion is only half as large as the explosion itself. When it does explode, expect reach similar to a bomb or grenade. This much didn't exactly change between demos.

 

[HanAmes]

I believe you, and now it's up to me to continue to put it to good use!

 

[Juushichi]

Just got done playing for like 5 hours straight, lol.

Finished with a 3-2 set win over my friend's Falco with Sheilda, but was mostly Zelda in games 4/5.

 

[GKInfinity]

I really like zelda in PM. I've been a zelda main in melee for at least 5 years now, and it's really hard to go back to using her in melee since she's so much better and more fun to play in project m now. Zelda seems like a really strong character though. I will probably write out a very lengthy post detailing my opinion of all of her matchups in the near future.

 

[BJN39]

This reminds me, what general area (number/s) do you Zeldas think Zelda should be placed comparing her to the rest of the cast?

 

[GKInfinity]

I personally think that Ike is a really good character, but some people think that he is utter trash. I expect some people to similarly disagree with my opinion of zelda.

I would personally place zelda in high tier... maybe ranked 10th overall or something. All of her moves seem viable now which gives her a ton of options in terms of combo potential. Din's fire is actually a good projectile now which helps with a ton of matchups. She's pretty fast and being able to cancel farores when you're on the ground helps her with her speed issues. I still haven't played P:M much, but I haven't played against anyone that led me to believe that she has any really hard matchups. The matchups that I felt were hardest for her still seemed pretty even. I think Zelda's a pretty solid character.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

im gonna agree with u on her placement, she has huge disjoints, high power, quick attacks, stupidly safe recovery, she can stage control to make snake jealous, and i hate every bit of it lol and not just cause im a ganon main

 

[Juushichi]

I think she'll be somewhere around 15th. High mid.

 

[BJN39]

I personally think that Ike is a really good character, but some people think that he is utter trash. I expect some people to similarly disagree with my opinion of zelda.

I would personally place zelda in high tier... maybe ranked 10th overall or something. All of her moves seem viable now which gives her a ton of options in terms of combo potential. Din's fire is actually a good projectile now which helps with a ton of matchups. She's pretty fast and being able to cancel farores when you're on the ground helps her with her speed issues. I still haven't played P:M much, but I haven't played against anyone that led me to believe that she has any really hard matchups. The matchups that I felt were hardest for her still seemed pretty even. I think Zelda's a pretty solid character.

This is exactly how I feel about it too.

Except I'm even more extreme to others because I think she could be as good as 7th

The hardest MUs I believe are Marth, Rob, and Maybe Sonic. But IDK, You know, it hasn't been out long enough to say exactly. But these three all take advantage of different weaknesses she has. Marth outrages her sorta and kills fireballs far to easily. Rob can camp her pretty well because he eats through din's, and sonic can overwhelm her with speed. (It was worse in 2.1) They all also have decent kill moves they can land on Zelda easy enough. To name a few problems.

 

[GKInfinity]

I definitely agree with you when it comes to marth. I'm the only person I know who uses Rob so I can't really say anything about that MU, but I don't think Sonic would be that bad at all honestly. Every matchup should be played differently obviously, and against sonic I don't think it'd be a good idea to use Dins ever except possibly when sonic's offstage. Other than that you can just play campy. Use attacks that come out quickly such as jab to stop approaches. Dsmash is fast, lightning kicks can be really effective, and up/fsmash seem like they'd be pretty good.

 

[BJN39]

I definitely agree with you when it comes to marth. I'm the only person I know who uses Rob so I can't really say anything about that MU, but I don't think Sonic would be that bad at all honestly. Every matchup should be played differently obviously, and against sonic I don't think it'd be a good idea to use Dins ever except possibly when sonic's offstage. Other than that you can just play campy. Use attacks that come out quickly such as jab to stop approaches. Dsmash is fast, lightning kicks can be really effective, and up/fsmash seem like they'd be pretty good.

Well yeah in the case of sonic it was one of her worst MUs in 2.1, (Partly because of spinspinspinspin) but he's changed quite a bit and I feel like it could be better for Zelda now.

Also, she whoops Captain Falcon, no jokes.

 

[GKInfinity]

Also, she whoops Captain Falcon, no jokes.

Really? Nice. I don't think I've played that matchup yet in PM, but I can definitely see her doing pretty well now. In melee it was nearly impossible against top Falcon players; one grab and you die.

 

[BJN39]

What do you guys think of Zelda vs Falco? The more and more I think about it the more I think this could be even or even in Zelda's slight advantage. I just don't see any real troubles Zelda could have in this MU.

 

[Airrider]

I must get this game. I've always wanted Zelda to be a good character and now she finally is Nintendo, learn from this! Project M actually seems the be the best smash so far.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think Falco gives her too much trouble. I'm skeptical that it's in her favor, but I consider it even-ish.

 

[drsusredfish]

Some Zelda dittos if yall wana see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSJUWi38NkA&list=PLFM_KPhmUexOT_JyOfLmkfgDYMX6E1Qrm&index=5

 

[Zerudahime]

Tankkk, you need better internets. =(
id play with u so much more often...
Great uploads btw

 

[Plasma]

Some Zelda dittos if yall wana see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSJUWi38NkA&list=PLFM_KPhmUexOT_JyOfLmkfgDYMX6E1Qrm&index=5

Thanks for posting these. Learning quite a bit and loving the commentary, lol

 

[BJN39]

Hey guys! Second post in this thread now shows OFFICIAL ZELDA CHANGELIST!

 

[Pluplue]

hey zeldas fun

 

[BJN39]

Not so fun right now, these (Zelda) boards are sleepin'.

We need to start advancing Zelda's metagame with more discussion.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I think one thing Zelda players should practice is Farore's Wind cancels. I think that move has the potential to be very frustrating and tricky for the opponent, but mastering it is going to be difficult. You need to have good prediction skills, and doing it incorrectly can be very dangerous. I don't think the surface has even been scratched since Zelda isn't exactly the most popular character.

Knowing when to teleport away, when to teleport in place, when to teleport right in front of them or right behind them, when to do a few teleports in quick succession to throw them off, when to use the full teleport to catch them off-guard with the reappearance hitbox, using it in conjunction with Din's, how to traverse platforms of varying heights, and what move to do out of it.

 

[GKInfinity]

It's easy to edge cancel farores now than it used to be. I think that can be tapped into a bit. Also, using farore's cancel to teleport upwards onto platforms is something I definitely need to incorporate more. It seems pretty good for tech chasing

 

[Arcalyth]

Not only do you have the ability to position yourself precisely with teledashing, you also have the option to slide out of it (which can put you in the same position you wanted, but with different timing, or to have different momentum than your opponent expects)

I use teleport quite often, but you have to be careful because the opponent can start reading you if you don't vary the timing enough, or if you tend to teleport to the same place. I find it easy to tunnelvision and only teleport horizontally, but teleporting onto platforms and even sliding off of them (especially into fair/bair) is quite effective as well.

 

[shounenkel]

hey =) new zelda player here looking some help... tips an stuff i should know about her haha.

 

[drsusredfish]

if you're going to use up b cancels alot be aware of the start up. its pretty punishable. also throughout the match you need to condition the opponent to react to a certain teleport length so you can create openings through mind games.

To practice with the teleport cancels go to training mode and get the smoke ball item. activate it grab it and practice teleporting. It shows how fast and where zelda is going so you can understand the timing better.

 

[KassandraNova]

Whelp after today I guess I'm using Zelda in this project M.

How are you wonderful sparkly princesses doing? XD

 

[Wavebuster]

Honestly, my advice for grounded Farore's Wind cancels is never to use it unless you have a really good reason for doing so, like closing huge gaps against projectile camping.

While she does have a good deal of control over where she ends up, it's a gated movement option. The reappearance hitbox is punishable on block, and wavedashes aren't lagless. Abuse will lead to you teleporting into more attacks than you get against any adapting opponent who isn't overcommitting to attacks. Most times you're better off just running and jumping to keep all of your options intact against the opponent when needed.

 

[Arcalyth]

Another good way to practice teleport cancels is to go to a stage with visible landmarks and try to aim for a specific spot on the stage to land on, like the center or edges of the Pokeball on PS2, or on the little circles on Battlefield.

Also:

Fsmash too good.

 

[BJN39]

OMG lol! Fsmash =

If only JCs had saved the stream of PMS 2.5. That would've been a lot to show those people in the TLSpec. thread.


Also, Hiya Kassandra, It's nice to see another person choosing to play zelda.

What made you decide to play Zelda?

 

[Yeerk]

I'm an Ivysaur main, looking for more characters. I like Zelda's movement options and strong smashes. I'd like to see hitboxes on her side aerial sweetspots, do you have to space them pretty far/on the edge? She doesn't seem higher tier to me, even with her stage control option. Regardless, there needs to be more talk on her threads! What other tricks does she have?

 

[drsusredfish]

Zelda players need to :

use ftilt often. know how to short hop double bair/fair. do retreating fair/bair. know how to land cancel nayru(but don't rely on it). punish rolls with grounded nayru. Learn to upsmash OoS. use UP b OoS (has its uses too). use utilt to anti air (since her arm is invincible). know somtimes nair is a better pressure escape than nayru. There's alot of other stuff.

go read the guide if you haven't already.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=331774

 

[Dopey]

I actually had my first pmfest today and found that zelda is soooo strong...

Her overB yakno the fire, u can place 3 of them at any time anywhere and combo into them or off of them. Or if ur edgeguarding, place them in a wall, or drop them on the ground to your sides, and even techchase without chasing lmaoo. The fact she still has her toes to both sides she can kill u at very low %s.

I also like when im coming back from high % i can use my fire to float me a little and block a path from the opponent coming to finish me, and i still have my jump afteri use my fire.

Now that im actually playin this game vids soon!

 

[drsusredfish]

did you have problems fighting against any character? Marth, lucario, bowser, sheik, and mario are some of the fighters I think she may have a problem with.

 

[shounenkel]

thanks for the thread its super help full i always wanted to play.. Zelda in melee.. but i just couldn't do it an gave into peach fox as my melee main... but i hate both fox an peach in PM.. so im going to pika an Zelda.. cant wait for the weekend to start training with her. i'll let you guys know how it goes..

P.S teleport cancels is soo fken sexy :O i really need to work on that. its something like pika QAC! xD