Zelda Social Thread

[Downdraft]

Idk guys. Still haven't been able to read through the thread's discussion on Zelda transform removal but...if they kill Sheilda in the only game Sheilda is actually an option, I might quit maining/semi-maining Zelda >___> I'd probably only use her for spacie MUs after that...gahh depressing thoughts

Transform won't be removed in 3.6. 3.5 was the major balance patch, and I'd be surprised if they introduced more game-changing nerfs to characters. Quitting Zelda would show that we aren't dedicated and fold in the face of significant adversity; however, it comes with the major benefit of being able to focus on other activities, characters, or people that don't come with the flak that being a Zelda main carries.

 

[ECHOnce]

Transform won't be removed in 3.6. 3.5 was the major balance patch, and I'd be surprised if they introduced more game-changing nerfs to characters. Quitting Zelda would show that we aren't dedicated and fold in the face of significant adversity; however, it comes with the major benefit of being able to focus on other activities, characters, or people that don't come with the flak that being a Zelda main carries.

Naw quitting was the wrong word for it. I was probably going for more like...it'd be sad to lose the comfort of just picking Zelda on the CSS out of habit lol. Even as a Sheik main first, Zelda second, I always go in with the queen first to size them up and condition to playing safe, then flip it around if/when things don't go well. I don't like starting games as Sheik (yet another reason why I prefer PM > Melee aha), but yeah. That was more of a "gahh don't take my toys away" 1am whining post aha. You're right though. And honestly, I'd keep playing Zelda against some MUs if I feel I could get away with it just to mess with the haters. Nothing feels better than 3-stocking a complaining spacie with an ego as awful as their MU knowledge hehe.

On another note, my local smash venue started holding weeklies on Mondays some time ago. Didn't think much of it until recently though - with the fall in popularity of PM, Mondays are now reserved for 30+ man PM brackets 3/4 Mondays every month. Sick right? Missed the bracket yesterday (gotta stay consistent and always be late), but I went 45-55 against several of the top 5 placers in friendlies, without a setup to practice still xD (I've ordered one now, though!). Hoping I won't disappoint on upcoming Mondays!
EDIT: The 5th place Squirtle main wasn't included in that wins/losses guesstimate tho cos...bahh I don't think I've taken a game off of him ever ; n;
EDIT2: Seriously though guys, what even is Squirtle?! He's like a super slidey Sheik ****** with super armor on half his moves. I still get nightmares.

 

[BJN39]

@ 4tlas those ideas actually sound kind of cool! I really liked that Sheik counter idea.

On a similar desgin line to the healing Fairy for Zelda, (Really just an interesting brainstorm here.) what about a sort of magical move that leaves her open for a very short period, but when used temporarily increases her speed and damage a tiny bit? I've been playing Dynasty Warriors 8 recently, and got the idea from Diao Chan's EX attack. Basically, she could get specific small increases to her normals' damage, and very small increases to her air mobility and walk and run speed.

Thinking about it, it wouldn't be too far off from Wii Fit Trainer's Deep Breathing in SSB4. For instance the boosts could last for 10 seconds. (About 2 more than WFT's DB.) Theoretically this could be used to promote going in at least during that time for Zelda. (Because only her physical attacks would be boosted.) Of course then there would be some sort of wait period or significantly slower next execution to balance it out in usage, like DB. IDK, it just came to my mind and sounded pretty interesting, maybe a little strong, though. haha.

 

[4tlas]

@ 4tlas those ideas actually sound kind of cool! I really liked that Sheik counter idea.

On a similar desgin line to the healing Fairy for Zelda, (Really just an interesting brainstorm here.) what about a sort of magical move that leaves her open for a very short period, but when used temporarily increases her speed and damage a tiny bit? I've been playing Dynasty Warriors 8 recently, and got the idea from Diao Chan's EX attack. Basically, she could get specific small increases to her normals' damage, and very small increases to her air mobility and walk and run speed.

Thinking about it, it wouldn't be too far off from Wii Fit Trainer's Deep Breathing in SSB4. For instance the boosts could last for 10 seconds. (About 2 more than WFT's DB.) Theoretically this could be used to promote going in at least during that time for Zelda. (Because only her physical attacks would be boosted.) Of course then there would be some sort of wait period or significantly slower next execution to balance it out in usage, like DB. IDK, it just came to my mind and sounded pretty interesting, maybe a little strong, though. haha.

I'm glad you like them!

I like the idea of an "offense up" for Zelda, and power level can always be adjusted, but I think there might be a few small inherent problems with the idea.

1) This ability doesn't just discourage opponents from camping out Zelda, it also makes Zelda snowball. Zelda often knocks opponents far away from her. Should she be rewarded with more than just stage position when she does this?

2) A sped up Zelda may be oppressive in some scenarios and not strong enough in others. Anytime Zelda already dominates a MU, this will probably make it even better for her, and some of the times she is dominated, this isn't good enough.

3) Even after you use "Stat Boost", you still have to approach the opponent. It helps her be more well-rounded and aggressive, but it doesn't do much to enable the defensive/reactive playstyle Zelda inherently has.

4) If this move isn't enough to let her go in, it's useless when the opponent camps (which is the only time you can use it besides the scenario in #1). Something like healing is theoretically infinite (aside from stock advantage, which should be rewarded anyway). EDIT: This means that no matter how much they camp you can continue to do this. 3 Dins that replaced themselves served a similar purpose. Now I can be out-camped because once I have 1 Dins out I lose the ability to place a new one: shield and repeat.

5) It might feel ****ty for the opponent (especially in scenario #1). I already hear complaints about how I'm playing Captain Falcon with 2 disjointed knees, imagine if Zelda were, like, Kirby speed!

I don't think those are big problems though. It's a cool idea and I think we should try it out over in the Triforce of Inspiration thread!

Edit: I don't think I made it clear enough that it's a cool idea. I just like discussing things, and it's always easier to critique other people's ideas than see the flaws in your own. Please let me know what problems you see with my suggestions, too! =)

 

[BJN39]

I'm glad you like them!

I like the idea of an "offense up" for Zelda, and power level can always be adjusted, but I think there might be a few small inherent problems with the idea.

1) This ability doesn't just discourage opponents from camping out Zelda, it also makes Zelda snowball. Zelda often knocks opponents far away from her. Should she be rewarded with more than just stage position when she does this?

2) A sped up Zelda may be oppressive in some scenarios and not strong enough in others. Anytime Zelda already dominates a MU, this will probably make it even better for her, and some of the times she is dominated, this isn't good enough.

3) Even after you use "Stat Boost", you still have to approach the opponent. It helps her be more well-rounded and aggressive, but it doesn't do much to enable the defensive/reactive playstyle Zelda inherently has.

4) If this move isn't enough to let her go in, it's useless when the opponent camps (which is the only time you can use it besides the scenario in #1). Something like healing is theoretically infinite (aside from stock advantage, which should be rewarded anyway).

5) It might feel ****ty for the opponent (especially in scenario #1). I already hear complaints about how I'm playing Captain Falcon with 2 disjointed knees, imagine if Zelda were, like, Kirby speed!

I don't think those are big problems though. It's a cool idea and I think we should try it out over in the Triforce of Inspiration thread!

Edit: I don't think I made it clear enough that it's a cool idea. I just like discussing things, and it's always easier to critique other people's ideas than see the flaws in your own. Please let me know what problems you see with my suggestions, too! =)

I like discussing this too, it feels fun and helpful (For me, honing some thinking/constructive arguing skills as well.) even if the idea doesn't get picked up. You make some very valid points on the idea of a Zelda "Deep Breathing" type of move, I've been thinking it over, and I thought of a few things:

On 1, there IS an interesting way to work around this, that would get rid of possible obnoxious KB issues. During the active period of this move, each normal receives some sort of damage boost, (Say, 2% or 3% for certain moves. More or less can be adjusted if these boosts seem to be off-balance.) but its KB stats are adjusted down to make its KB match the un-boosted versions during the active period as well. (It would work similar to Shulk's buster art in SSB4, but with a little more polish. It might take a little more work to execute though, unless a fast-route is taken, like with Shulk's monado arts.) You could use the period mostly to try and get as much damage on your opponent as possible, but moves don't knock unnecessarily far.

Also thinking about it, the amount of time it lasts would be up for inspection, as I myself think 10 seconds might not be enough. Knowing how little that amount of time does for Wii Fit Trainer...

You COULD replace one of these boosts instead with a slight KB resistance increase. (Similar to one of WFT's DB customs, where she receives a temp weight increase. Only in this case not so drastic.) But, really, with any boost, it's gonna have some types of double-edged-ness. We want her to get something that could improve her, but there's always the possibility that it could be too much in some situations, so if we want it, we have to... Pick our poison, so to speak? I think getting this change would just need to take a little bravery as far as backlash for its design.

With 5, lol yeah. It's hard to be Zelda. I think people will complain about Zelda's design no matter what... Unless she was a mollusk... But then we'd be down about her design... HA

 

[4tlas]

I like discussing this too, it feels fun and helpful (For me, honing some thinking/constructive arguing skills as well.) even if the idea doesn't get picked up. You make some very valid points on the idea of a Zelda "Deep Breathing" type of move, I've been thinking it over, and I thought of a few things:

On 1, there IS an interesting way to work around this, that would get rid of possible obnoxious KB issues. During the active period of this move, each normal receives some sort of damage boost, (Say, 2% or 3% for certain moves. More or less can be adjusted if these boosts seem to be off-balance.) but its KB stats are adjusted down to make its KB match the un-boosted versions during the active period as well. (It would work similar to Shulk's buster art in SSB4, but with a little more polish. It might take a little more work to execute though, unless a fast-route is taken, like with Shulk's monado arts.) You could use the period mostly to try and get as much damage on your opponent as possible, but moves don't knock unnecessarily far.

Also thinking about it, the amount of time it lasts would be up for inspection, as I myself think 10 seconds might not be enough. Knowing how little that amount of time does for Wii Fit Trainer...

You COULD replace one of these boosts instead with a slight KB resistance increase. (Similar to one of WFT's DB customs, where she receives a temp weight increase. Only in this case not so drastic.) But, really, with any boost, it's gonna have some types of double-edged-ness. We want her to get something that could improve her, but there's always the possibility that it could be too much in some situations, so if we want it, we have to... Pick our poison, so to speak? I think getting this change would just need to take a little bravery as far as backlash for its design.

With 5, lol yeah. It's hard to be Zelda. I think people will complain about Zelda's design no matter what... Unless she was a mollusk... But then we'd be down about her design... HA

With point #1, I didn't just mean that the increased knockback will let her use the move more, though that is an excellent point I hadn't thought of. I also meant that hitting the opponent with Zelda normally will put the opponent far away, allowing her to use this move and become even MORE powerful next time.

A problem with giving her more weight is that 1) I might not want more weight and 2) opponents will complain about having to adjust to comboing a differently weighted character, which is one of the "reasons" transform should be removed.


The reason why I think a speed/damage boost might be oppressive is because those are the types of stats that are critically important and strictly better in all scenarios. We need something that helps much more in the hard MUs than the easy ones, and Zelda is already pretty solid (though I still think she's low tier) so we don't want to give her universally good tools. Finding something situational is the best option.

Perhaps boost something else instead? What helps vs fast/campy characters (her weakness) but isn't as useful vs slow/spacing/rushdown characters? Stage control is a good one (which is why multiple mines was nice).


Ok here's a WEIRD idea. Using the "boost" move causes her teleburn to set a Dins for the next...let's say 2 teleports or 5 seconds or w/e.

 

[BJN39]

With point #1, I didn't just mean that the increased knockback will let her use the move more, though that is an excellent point I hadn't thought of. I also meant that hitting the opponent with Zelda normally will put the opponent far away, allowing her to use this move and become even MORE powerful next time.

A problem with giving her more weight is that 1) I might not want more weight and 2) opponents will complain about having to adjust to comboing a differently weighted character, which is one of the "reasons" transform should be removed.

OH, I guess I hadn't totally grasped one of your points. I wasn't thinking of the move's boosts being stackable, I was thinking along the lines of Deep Breathing again. With deep breathing, using the move again while it's active actually makes your boosts have to disappear, (By failing a DB you loose any current boost from it, and when using it during the active period you literally cannot execute it successfully.) so you can't stack them, and using it during or too soon after using it initially will result in the boosting move's animation being slowed down significantly (And, slowly reverting to normal animation speed as time goes on.) and a loss of your boosts.

As for a weight boost, I was kind of just trying to bring it up to make my point; I agree that it'd be a less helpful/desirable boost.

The reason why I think a speed/damage boost might be oppressive is because those are the types of stats that are critically important and strictly better in all scenarios. We need something that helps much more in the hard MUs than the easy ones, and Zelda is already pretty solid (though I still think she's low tier) so we don't want to give her universally good tools. Finding something situational is the best option.

Perhaps boost something else instead? What helps vs fast/campy characters (her weakness) but isn't as useful vs slow/spacing/rushdown characters? Stage control is a good one (which is why multiple mines was nice).


Ok here's a WEIRD idea. Using the "boost" move causes her teleburn to set a Dins for the next...let's say 2 teleports or 5 seconds or w/e.

I guess I'm not sure atm what would be a good boost to deal with her weakness characters in particular. Could that even be easily attained specifically? My early thought process lead me to think that a boost that helped her with the particular issue would also end up helping her against a non-issue type as well, which would just be oppressive like before. I'm gonna have to think on that.

As for the tele-mine idea, instead of the boost move doing it, it could be its own type of move where she could "fuse" Din's and Farore's together. (Accomplishing your idea.)

 

[4tlas]

OH, I guess I hadn't totally grasped one of your points. I wasn't thinking of the move's boosts being stackable, I was thinking along the lines of Deep Breathing again. With deep breathing, using the move again while it's active actually makes your boosts have to disappear, (By failing a DB you loose any current boost from it, and when using it during the active period you literally cannot execute it successfully.) so you can't stack them, and using it during or too soon after using it initially will result in the boosting move's animation being slowed down significantly (And, slowly reverting to normal animation speed as time goes on.) and a loss of your boosts.

As for a weight boost, I was kind of just trying to bring it up to make my point; I agree that it'd be a less helpful/desirable boost.




I guess I'm not sure atm what would be a good boost to deal with her weakness characters in particular. Could that even be easily attained specifically? My early thought process lead me to think that a boost that helped her with the particular issue would also end up helping her against a non-issue type as well, which would just be oppressive like before. I'm gonna have to think on that.

As for the tele-mine idea, instead of the boost move doing it, it could be its own type of move where she could "fuse" Din's and Farore's together. (Accomplishing your idea.)

Haha, we keep talking past each other! I hadn't thought of it being stackable, though obviously THAT would be a problem too! Or maybe a solution...

What I meant was that Zelda and her opponent duke it out, Zelda wins and hits the opponent far away, as Zelda often does. If she hits them far enough, instead of being unable to followup and returning to neutral like before, she might get to use stat boost. Now she is not only rewarded with stage positioning for winning a prior neutral engagement, she is also more powerful. Is that ok? I don't know, honestly. I think it might be, since you'd probably be giving up that extra stage positioning by channeling this move instead.


I don't know what a good boost would be. Universally good stats involve speed (moving hitboxes and hurtboxes large distances ), quickness (less commitment), disjoint/projectiles (separating hitboxes and hurtboxes), damage (more damage = more knockback = more kills), and defensive options (shield size, roll/dodge/tech data). I think we should avoid those for such a thing, since she already has MUs she does well in and doesn't need the universal buffs.

Fast characters abuse the open space on a stage to fake out or avoid Zelda. Campy characters abuse the open space on a stage to force Zelda through it.

Slow characters can't avoid Zelda, spacing characters play with Zelda appropriately, and rushdown characters play hardball with Zelda. All of these characters will always be near Zelda.

So the proper tool is one that closes off open space away from Zelda. This is what Dins does. If we are going to add another tool that does this, it has to be in a different way, such as by making Zelda put herself at risk to do it. We also don't want to have it improve her edgeguard game since it's already very good. Hmm.

 

[4tlas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U32JNOsDw5U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwyJU0_c-M

These are the 2 matches I had against the 1st and 2nd place players of my most recent tournament. I think all of us played poorly, lol.

 

[Downdraft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U32JNOsDw5U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmwyJU0_c-M

These are the 2 matches I had against the 1st and 2nd place players of my most recent tournament. I think all of us played poorly, lol.

The commentary was Did you give any pointers to the other Zeldas at the tournament or invite them to our boards?

 

[4tlas]

The commentary was Did you give any pointers to the other Zeldas at the tournament or invite them to our boards?

Of the 2 commentators, one of them is a Zelda main and the other was a rather softspoken individual. I'll remind him next time I see him to come check us out, though I assume he did to learn the telecancel.

 

[WhiteCrow]

I've started making a Under Used/Appriciated Zelda Tech video, similar to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4NMbJtmQs). Anything specifically y'all think I should put in there?

Also, people should prank me more. I actually really like having pink text for my name :D

 

[Downdraft]

I've started making a Under Used/Appriciated Zelda Tech video, similar to (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k4NMbJtmQs). Anything specifically y'all think I should put in there?

Also, people should prank me more. I actually really like having pink text for my name :D

Spoiler

Picking a better character.

In all seriousness though, I don't recall seeing people use Nayru's momentum tricks much.

 

[WhiteCrow]

In all seriousness though, I don't recall seeing people use Nayru's momentum tricks much.

Why pick a better character when you can just down b kappa?
When you say Nayru's momentum tricks do you mean Nayru's glide or b-reversed land cancelled Nayru?

So far I want to showcase ribbon dancing, auto-cancelled first hit of up air, the landing hitbox of neutral air, jab cancelling, auto snapping teleport, ledge cancelled teleport, wave landing out of aerials, and orbiting Din's Fire

 

[Downdraft]

1. Why begin the match with Zelda if you're committed to playing Sheik instead?
2. I wasn't referring to Nayru's glide. Jump back -> wavebounced land cancelled Nayru's can catch an opponent rushing in. B-reversed Nayru's from backwards momentum can put you facing your opponent's back. Jumping over then b-reversing land cancelling Nayru's is good for setting up a kill or combo if the opponent doesn't react quickly enough. B reversing off the edge of the stage and ledges is good bait or might even set up an attack.
3. Is ribbon dancing not just for show? Sure the opponent wouldn't expect it, and it's flashy, but I believe it's rarely used because there are better options.
   
4. Auto-cancelled first hit of up air is a good one.
5. Not sure what you mean by the landing hitbox of neutral aerial, but fast fall neutral aerials to get back to the stage and occasionally interrupt or start combos is good.
6. I just looked up jab cancelling and will see if I can execute it later; that option probably isn't well known.
7. Auto-snapping teleport is the easiest thing to execute out of the things you listed. Once one overcomes their fears of SD'ing it's simple.
8. Ledge cancelled teleport is deadlier with teleport cancelling, but that takes practice. I assume that you will show ledge cancelled teleport cancels into aerial attacks.
9. I haven't thought of wave landing out of aerials.
10. Orbiting Din's fire might not be seen much because people don't know how to reliably do it. Also, I'd be wary of showing that off because I wouldn't be surprised to see Din's tracking changed.
11. How about showing some SHFFL'd aerials? I don't L-cancel Zelda's aerials since D-air is rarely used and the others don't have significant lag if you perform them at the right heights.

 

[ECHOnce]

Why pick a better character when you can just down b kappa?
When you say Nayru's momentum tricks do you mean Nayru's glide or b-reversed land cancelled Nayru?

So far I want to showcase ribbon dancing, auto-cancelled first hit of up air, the landing hitbox of neutral air, jab cancelling, auto snapping teleport, ledge cancelled teleport, wave landing out of aerials, and orbiting Din's Fire

I'd suggest having all of the various Nayrus tech back to back to show how the seemingly minute differences in distances are actually pretty important. Showing how B-reversed/Wavebounced Nayrus can be used to shield pressure would be a good idea, too. You know, the mixup where you let them think you're absent-midedly jumping from behind their shield to in front where they can grab you, but then you B-reverse/Wavebounced Nayrus? Or when you jump towards their front, then either nayrus past their shield behind them normally, or B-reverse/Wavebounced Nayrus back and out of their shield grab range (not always optimal if they react quickly with good oos punish options, but it's still an option to use if you start getting in their head with shield pressure mixups)?

You pretty much covered all the main things I would point out lol. Maybe you could tack on some things like using N-air to carry airborne opponents to the ground after they whiff an aerial (to lead into a D-smash or U-tilt or grab follow-up or something); sorta like how Ivy's N-air was featured in the vid you showed. It may seem obvious, but sometimes it can catch opponents off-guard since aerials that disrupt their momentum and drag them down with you aren't all that common or last that long...and the few that are are usually given a more distinct "drill-attack" apperance. N-air is a drill, but it's not super obvious at a first glance.

After going over all the points, ending the vid with a short montage of examples on how these tricks could be stringed together could be helpful as well. Like on say...Battlefield....while recovering onto one of the lower platforms, edge-canceled teleport/teledash off of the inner edge, and then with the momentum start a B-reverse/Wavebounced Nayrus. (used to be much more useful back when we could use it from on stage with a backwards waveland out, but it's still sort of a thing >___<) Or similarly, from on stage (battlefield example again), edge-cancel teleport/teledash from one platform to another of the same level, and then use the falling momentum in a Turnaround or Wavebounced din-laying. Stuff like that hehe.

EDIT: neat little tips for practicing could work in the vid too. Like using the smoke ball for teledashing distances.

EDIT2: I was gonna suggest the whole using-stages-like-Temple-to-practice-weaving-dins-through-obstacles thing we used to offer back in 3.02 as well, but alas...that's not really necessary now that they're so vertically-restricted in trajectory. ; -; Sad to see old practices go. It's as if someone has removed the step of SHFFL-shining Bowser/DK in Melee with low knockback settings to adjust to their input speeds...almost every spacie main I talk to has gone through that as a way of passage/tradition at some point haha

 

[ECHOnce]

Dupe post because first was pretty long already. Sue me hehe.

3. Is ribbon dancing not just for show? Sure the opponent wouldn't expect it, and it's flashy, but I believe it's rarely used because there are better options.

It's still a good mixup hehe, gets into their heads too, since it's not only showy but seems easy to escape from and frustrates them a bit.

9. I haven't thought of wave landing out of aerials.

Try it with LK pokes --> waveland away! It puts you quite a safe distance away. If you condition them into realizing that most attacks to try punish you immediately after the waveland will whiff, and they start trying to drop shield --> dash or wavedash oos towards you into punishes, then you can mix it up by wavelanding towards them into a grab and catching them in dash/wavedash. Haven't done this all that much myself, but I'm sure I've gotten it to work well a few times in the past lol.

10. Orbiting Din's fire might not be seen much because people don't know how to reliably do it. Also, I'd be wary of showing that off because I wouldn't be surprised to see Din's tracking changed.

I would actually say so; even if it isn't all that well-known, it's not like it isn't already out there for the public to know, with Oracle showing it off at the TL tournies pretty frequently and all; other Zeldas are bound to use it on stream eventually, too. Can't really stop it from spreading now that it's out there, so I wouldn't see much sense in worrying about it.

11. How about showing some SHFFL'd aerials? I don't L-cancel Zelda's aerials since D-air is rarely used and the others don't have significant lag if you perform them at the right heights.

Other than low LKs to try poke shields, the N-air drill carry I mentioned, or the U-air cancel thingy, I wouldn't think of SHFFL aerials as that stand-out or unusual. Everybody has them, and with Zelda's being among the slowest (if not the slowest...can't remember), there wouldn't be much to talk about unlike...say, Fox/Falco, for who we could advise that SHFFL N-air is their safest aerial to approach with, etc. If anything, I would just lump those three things and the aerials into wavelands together as neat little Zelda tricks with aerials.

 

[flying_tortoise]

Wait... The Social Thread hasn't been stickied yet? *looks at @ BJN39 *

edit: Ok wow, yah there are so many new ppl in the zelda forums. That's awesome

 

[ECHOnce]

Wait... The Social Thread hasn't been stickied yet? *looks at @ BJN39 *

edit: Ok wow, yah there are so many new ppl in the zelda forums. That's awesome

BJN yields his mod powers upon leaving the comfort of his smUshy domain. Here, he can only wander in distraught with the rest of us mere mortals.

...huhu~

 

[flying_tortoise]

*gasp* BJN I apologize. T.T u visiting these boards with no powers means great sacrifice.

But in all seriousness I actually didn't realize mods only had power in certain areas. Perdon BJN.

 

[QuickLava]

Just had a weird experience on Dracula's Castle. During the phase where the outer platforms are slanted inwards, I shot a Din on the lower part of one of the platforms, then wavelanded onto the higher part of that same platform. Then when the Din started coming back towards me, instead of actually making contact with me and disappearing, it circled me for a good 10 to 15 seconds. During this time I sat in shield and it seemed to perfectly skirt the edge of the shield the entire time. As far as I can tell, the Din will do this indefinitely unless you either move or are hit into it. I didn't think to try to pulse the Din either, so I don't know if that would have made it come back. I can't tell if this has any practical use, and I'm still working to recreate it, but it was certainly interesting.

 

[4tlas]

As long as the Dins misses you you can get it to rotate around you until it expires due to time. Re-exploding it will only pause it before it continues on its current trajectory.

Try setting a mine then detonating it at arm's length/height (the hand position during the command animation). It should circle you.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Just had a weird experience on Dracula's Castle. During the phase where the outer platforms are slanted inwards, I shot a Din on the lower part of one of the platforms, then wavelanded onto the higher part of that same platform. Then when the Din started coming back towards me, instead of actually making contact with me and disappearing, it circled me for a good 10 to 15 seconds. During this time I sat in shield and it seemed to perfectly skirt the edge of the shield the entire time. As far as I can tell, the Din will do this indefinitely unless you either move or are hit into it. I didn't think to try to pulse the Din either, so I don't know if that would have made it come back. I can't tell if this has any practical use, and I'm still working to recreate it, but it was certainly interesting.

This is known as an orbiting Din's Fire and I think it has lots of practical applications. The area on Zelda that makes the Din disappear when returning to her is close to the center of her body, and the returning Din will try to make right or left turns to reach this point. What you are doing is tricking it into constantly turn in one direction, making it circle you instead of returning to you. The larger the Din is the wider it's turn radius, so it is inherently easier to make larger Din's orbit you.

Teleporting with Farore's Wind while a Din's Fire is returning to you is a great way to start an orbit. When Zelda is invisible or off screen the Din will lock in a straight line until it can re-track her. Turn debug mode on so it's easier to see where the Din is when it goes through the stage. Send the Din out straight forward (for starters use the Din's max distance) and make it return to you. Teleport at it, ending your teleport right behind it. If you timed it right the Din will make a sharp turn, creating an orbit. You can make orbits without teleporting but it really helps. Experiment with movement, refreshing the Din, wave landing out of side b refresh, and off stage/ledge orbits. There's lot of stuff you can do with this technology.

 

[QuickLava]

This is known as an orbiting Din's Fire and I think it has lots of practical applications. The area on Zelda that makes the Din disappear when returning to her is close to the center of her body, and the returning Din will try to make right or left turns to reach this point. What you are doing is tricking it into constantly turn in one direction, making it circle you instead of returning to you. The larger the Din is the wider it's turn radius, so it is inherently easier to make larger Din's orbit you.

Teleporting with Farore's Wind while a Din's Fire is returning to you is a great way to start an orbit. When Zelda is invisible or off screen the Din will lock in a straight line until it can re-track her. Turn debug mode on so it's easier to see where the Din is when it goes through the stage. Send the Din out straight forward (for starters use the Din's max distance) and make it return to you. Teleport at it, ending your teleport right behind it. If you timed it right the Din will make a sharp turn, creating an orbit. You can make orbits without teleporting but it really helps. Experiment with movement, refreshing the Din, wave landing out of side b refresh, and off stage/ledge orbits. There's lot of stuff you can do with this technology.

Do you happen to have footage of it being used in a match? Seems like it could lead to some interesting situations.

 

[WhiteCrow]

Do you happen to have footage of it being used in a match? Seems like it could lead to some interesting situations.

Covering recovery options:
https://gfycat.com/WeirdBlackandwhiteFlatcoatretriever

Making our recovery safe:
http://gfycat.com/ImaginativeEllipticalIchidna

Grab combos:
http://gfycat.com/AngelicIndelibleIndianabat#

 

[QuickLava]

Thanks for this. I'm thinking about learning Zelda next (I aim to play every character at least proficiently), and this could help quite a bit. Any other fancy stuff I should know about?

 

[4tlas]

All of her specials can be used out of hitstun for weird movement properties. You can shorten teleport the same way you would shorten Fox Illusion. The timed detonation of Dins is bigger and stronger than the manual one. You can also get the timed detonation by Transforming.

 

[Downdraft]

 

[ECHOnce]

Yo someone gfycat these: 1 - 2 - 3
And this...my heart can't take it. Zhime whyyy

On another note, two more vids have since been uploaded with Zhime (vs. a G&W and a Mario). Haven't watched them yet.
EDIT: lmao G&W taunts though...apparently Zhime channels his salt through great Sheilda play: 1 - 2

 

[4tlas]

Yo someone gfycat these: 1 - 2 - 3
And this...my heart can't take it. Zhime whyyy

On another note, two more vids have since been uploaded with Zhime (vs. a G&W and a Mario). Haven't watched them yet though.

The G&W was bodying Zhime at first, then managed to suicide 3(?) stocks!

So far Zhime is playing like a god against Gallo, though. Go Zhime!

Edit: I know one of these commentators personally and I am disappointed at how many wrong things are said. Then again I know the people I commentate with say everything wrong too, so whatever. Gallo coming back with a vengeance.

 

[ECHOnce]

The G&W was bodying Zhime at first, then managed to suicide 3(?) stocks!

So far Zhime is playing like a god against Gallo, though. Go Zhime!

Edit: I know one of these commentators personally and I am disappointed at how many wrong things are said. Then again I know the people I commentate with say everything wrong too, so whatever. Gallo coming back with a vengeance.

That's what the commentators said (that he SD'ed three times), and while it seemed that way, I timestamped at least two kills from that last match aha. And to be fair, at least one or two of Zhime's deaths were sorta jank too. It was just a weird match in general, for both players lol

From the Mario match: 1 - 2 - 3
idk Gallo, but his Mario is definitely fun to watch. More reason to sub to that weekly's channel aha

 

[Downdraft]

Yo someone gfycat these: 1 - 2 - 3
And this...my heart can't take it. Zhime whyyy

On another note, two more vids have since been uploaded with Zhime (vs. a G&W and a Mario). Haven't watched them yet.
EDIT: lmao G&W taunts though...apparently Zhime channels his salt through great Sheilda play: 1 - 2

I occasionally check the Top Players' Videos thread to see if there are any new Zelda videos worth my attention; that's where I found the two I embedded. None of the other updates were against top players. Where can I find these matches against Gallo?

 

[4tlas]

What's up with the Top Player's Video thread anyway? Do people have to promote themselves on there, or do people get nominated by others or something?

 

[noobftw]

I occasionally check the Top Players' Videos thread to see if there are any new Zelda videos worth my attention; that's where I found the two I embedded. None of the other updates were against top players. Where can I find these matches against Gallo?

idk but I looked up zhime and found a super long video of him playing with gallo LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4MGE9WYFvw
Have fun watching? I guess... LOL it's a lot to watch xD

 

[ECHOnce]

I occasionally check the Top Players' Videos thread to see if there are any new Zelda videos worth my attention; that's where I found the two I embedded. None of the other updates were against top players. Where can I find these matches against Gallo?

I linked his set with Gallo (the Mario vid) in my post that you quoted lol.

What's up with the Top Player's Video thread anyway? Do people have to promote themselves on there, or do people get nominated by others or something?

People recommend top players in the thread, and if there is a general consensus among those who know them, then they'll put them up. If the player is sort of unknown, but there aren't any other standout representatives for the character, I'm assuming they just judge from video footage someone may provide. Other than Zhime, none of us should be able to qualify. Crow is maybe up and coming and getting better, but he hasn't come close to taking down any top PM players afaik. He's definitely taken names that are big in the regional Melee scene, but that still doesn't carry as much value as beating those known for their PM prowess.

 

[~Frozen~]

For future reference you can find the Nova vids here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwdVytA5FmjUEUBbc28h9QA :D

Also damn LOL I got bodied that first game at #4. RIP

 

[4tlas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGk9q0KIM40&index=16&list=PLcSDnlN_g2t6kJqHJe0TXrsmMGhRL0c3a I apologize for linking a playlist but I am in 3 of the 4 videos that will play. Skip the second video. I'm the Zelda on team Diabeetus.

 

[Zerudahime]

how to play sheilda : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSrl6tukDM

fun fact: pink = solo zelda
black = usually sheilda

 

[4tlas]

how to play sheilda : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSrl6tukDM

fun fact: pink = solo zelda
black = usually sheilda

These jump transforms into lightning kick edgeguards are sexy. I also love to bait Ness players into trying to absorb the huge mine then transforming to kill them with it, like you did. Glorious.

 

[BJN39]

So... I went to a local tourney being held at a college campus that was gonna be a PM tourney with claims of SSB4 on the side for friendlies. I was gonna go there for mostly playing SSB4, but also entering the tourney with no prospects of getting far, since I hadn't played PM in like, a year... lol

Obvs at the tourney I went solo Zelderp b/c literally no one else in PM interests me, and I'm most well-versed in her design and gameplay (And nerfs ) even though I hadn't played for a while.


I had jitters the whole while before since this was my first actually going to any sort of tourney. Every time I was actually PLAYING I was at ease, though. Alas, there was no SSB4 there.

The PM tourney was great though. No invulnerability on aerial NL and SDI-able Usmash hurt, (People were escaping my Usmash TOO WELL at times, smh PM devs...) but overall she felt the same, and gosh the PM mechanics felt abusable! New din's was better than I was expecting, and very helpful at mid-range (Like intended by the devs I suppose... <_<) I did surprisingly well and got in the top 8 out of 44 entrants ("Tied for 7th" lost my first top 8 set while in losers. :/ ) but lots of people were apparently impressed with my playing, and I was encouraged to come play more. Which was really nice.

Could it be? Could I really be picking P:M back up?