Zelda Social Thread

[Luis Alonso]

I don't trust myself to not SD, whether because my opponent arrives first or I don't let go of the control stick in time. I also don't trust myself to space a lightning kick off the ledge, especially in 3.5. Those are definitely both things I should work on, though! Thanks.

Edit: @ Luis Alonso did you see him do it starting from a platform? If you ride the ground the best you can do is cancel right above the ledge and grab it while starting your fall, but that isn't the same thing.

I could go and check @ 4tlas I'll edit if I have a confirmation.

EDIT: Okay now I see what he did. He did a very short hop into a Farore's Wind auto-snap. Clever little sneak!

 

[Kaeldiar]

Clever little sneak!

 

[4tlas]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX3hT2mX5tQ My most recent streamed match. I have a lot of trouble with super fast characters, tether recoveries, and characters with disjoints. ZSS is all three... =(

 

[Luis Alonso]

During that battle, I lamented greatly the lack of a grabbox above Farore's Wind. How many close recoveries have been lost because of a simple thing ;-;

 

[jtm94]

I get so many gimps with Farore's at ledge, her ability to grab ledge is very strong. I can gimp Sonic now making grabbing the ledge advantageous.

I struggle against ROB with my other characters, but I think Zelda has the advantage. I've put enough time into 3.5 I may start to pull her out instead of Sheik in some scenarios.

New strong kick having more range is such a blessing. I miss all of the old up close critical kick spacings, but niw I can beat things with a kick strong enough to KO.

It was to my understanding that both kicks sent at 361 degrees meaning you could not DI strong kick. sakurai angle sends higher at higher % and against aerial opponents. 3.5 fair sends at 40 degrees now, but flub hitbox is sakurai angle. 3.5 bair all sends at sakurai angle. I do not know which scaling the 361 angle follows.. SSB64, SSBM, or SSBB. I would assume SSBM because Brawl angles are very low. So below about 32% bair will send at an angle of 0 degrees allowing you to secure an edgeguard fair might not have allowed.

Eh, whatever, that's all unimportant, I can enjoy playing her again.

 

[Downdraft]

1. Who'd be interested in collaborating on a thread where we discuss and condense tips (DO's/DON'Ts) versus each character in 3.5. There is limited footage of 3.5 Zelda in the sense that no great players have emerged, there aren't many videos of good 3.5 Zelda on YouTube, and finding footage of certain matchups is an ordeal. Essentially, an unreliable amount of quality 3.5 Zelda footage exists. It'd be easier to consult a thread for help rather than the efforts it could entail to find useful footage of 3.5 Zelda on YouTube or twitch.

2. How does one handle Bowser in 3.5? Super armor + great crouch canceling + power is a deadly combination.

 

[jtm94]

1. I will help with the few MUs I actually know things about.

2. You grab him. His movement is slow even compared to Zelda and the only thing he has to bail him out is UpB. We can use Din's to get free % even if he armors it and then repeatedly grab him until bthrow will KO or set up an edgeguard.

 

[Downdraft]

1. I will help with the few MUs I actually know things about.

2. You grab him. His movement is slow even compared to Zelda and the only thing he has to bail him out is UpB. We can use Din's to get free % even if he armors it and then repeatedly grab him until bthrow will KO or set up an edgeguard.

I feel like I know little about any of the matchups due to my overall negative experiences with local competition. I will admit that I tend towards negative thoughts, which I why I asked for help to clear my mind and help the other Zeldas that may feel helpless or hopeless playing her sometimes.

Alright, I'll try and figure out ways to setup grabs, but I have one more question at this moment. How do I reset the situation once I've been hit into the air? I made decisions when trying to return to the stage and got punished badly. Bowser can reliably kill Zelda under 100% if she's not careful enough.

 

[jtm94]

get out of tumble ASAP and air dodge wisely. His attacks are all high commitment so air dodge should get you down safely if you can't DJ around an aerial. His super jump thing allows him to really get us good.

 

[4tlas]

Another option is to do a "love jump" with teleport then immediately juke back to the ground with it. Since I Sheilda, sometimes I "love jump" with transform to get back toward the stage or avoid followups from my transform.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Another option is to do a "love jump" with teleport then immediately juke back to the ground with it. Since I Sheilda, sometimes I "love jump" with transform to get back toward the stage or avoid followups from my transform.

To avoid confusing terms, shall we call the boost with transform a "Transform jump?"

And the boost with teleport is "Farore's Boost" if you mean the horizontal boost you get from it. That's a Brawl tech that carried over

 

[4tlas]

To avoid confusing terms, shall we call the boost with transform a "Transform jump?"

And the boost with teleport is "Farore's Boost" if you mean the horizontal boost you get from it. That's a Brawl tech that carried over

I think those should be swapped. The Transform lets you slide horizontally but the Farore's pops you up like a love jump. So, Farore's Jump and Transform Boost?

 

[Downdraft]

I don't know what either of you are talking about. Where could I find footage of Farore's Boost?

 

[Kaeldiar]

I think those should be swapped. The Transform lets you slide horizontally but the Farore's pops you up like a love jump. So, Farore's Jump and Transform Boost?

That is interesting, because I'm getting the opposite effect! Haha! The transform in particular from Sheik to Zelda gives you an astounding amount of height due to the gravity change during Sheik's transform. If you are hit, and jump then transform (from Sheik to Zelda), as if you were doing a Love Jump but with Transform, it is QUITE noticeable. You get almost as much air as a Love Jump!

 

[Kaeldiar]

I don't know what either of you are talking about. Where could I find footage of Farore's Boost?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LRXRkVs3S0#t=39s

 

[Downdraft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LRXRkVs3S0#t=39s

That? I'm sure I've done that a few times, but I don't understand what makes it special as opposed to Love Jumping, Diamond Diving, or Nayru's Glide.

 

[jtm94]

That? I'm sure I've done that a few times, but I don't understand what makes it special as opposed to Love Jumping, Diamond Diving, or Nayru's Glide.

It's a different move that does a similar thing.
I don't really use Nayrus much anymore it always gets beat out, but the land cancel is GREAT bait because they expect end lag, but get dash attacked.

 

[4tlas]

That is interesting, because I'm getting the opposite effect! Haha! The transform in particular from Sheik to Zelda gives you an astounding amount of height due to the gravity change during Sheik's transform. If you are hit, and jump then transform (from Sheik to Zelda), as if you were doing a Love Jump but with Transform, it is QUITE noticeable. You get almost as much air as a Love Jump!

Hmm, I have never jump transformed out of hitstun as Sheik -> Zelda as I've never needed to. I play Zelda at low percents and Sheik at high percents so I'm not escaping any combos by doing it anyway. As for the teleport boost, Zelda continues moving whatever direction she was previously. In the video you posted, sometimes that is straight up. So I guess boost is the best name because it applies to any direction.

I'll try out Sheik -> Zelda at some point.

 

[Downdraft]

It's a different move that does a similar thing.
I don't really use Nayrus much anymore it always gets beat out, but the land cancel is GREAT bait because they expect end lag, but get dash attacked.

Yeah, 3.5 Nayru's isn't even half of what 3.02 Nayru's was. The attack needs to send in the direction she's facing consistently, and I now understand how important the brief invincibility was. It'd also be nice if the attack's range matched the diamond's size.

 

[jtm94]

The move is completely fine for what it is. Not everything needs to be so cut and dry.

Speaking of direction. It's sad that because of weakened SDI modifiers on nair opponents can get sent in either direction, but at least I have yet to have someone escape the move.

 

[4tlas]

I have always been able to control which direction they get hit out of nair, even with the weakened SDI. What are you/opponents doing to fly randomly?

 

[Tactician Lan]

My problem with opponents flying out of nair is that they generally tend to fly out in the opposite direction of how Zelda is moving, so other than punishing platform landings by pushing my opponent off stage I haven't done much with Nair myself. I notice that they tend to fly randomly if I don't influence my aerial movement and simply do a perfectly vertical jump into Nair.

Does anyone know how to find out which hitbox has the most priority for actually registering as a hit? For example, like when the flub and the sweetspot both hit on Fair/Bair, but you get the flub. This is information I haven't been able to find or figure out myself

 

[Kaeldiar]

Does anyone know how to find out which hitbox has the most priority for actually registering as a hit? For example, like when the flub and the sweetspot both hit on Fair/Bair, but you get the flub. This is information I haven't been able to find or figure out myself

If you look at the hitbox and frame data thread, all the hitboxes are listed. Priority is based on the hitbox's ID number, with the lowest number having highest priority. 0 > 1 > 2 > 3...etc.

 

[jtm94]

I have always been able to control which direction they get hit out of nair, even with the weakened SDI. What are you/opponents doing to fly randomly?

I nair them without moving and they have a chance to go either direction.

 

[4tlas]

Ah, I always move a tiny bit near the end of the nair so I can know which direction they'll go. Helps with bouncing them back at me off a Dins, or if they are a fastfaller and DI up or a huge character at low percents I can get a lightning kick, or ensuring they go offstage for an edgeguard.

 

[Downdraft]

Could we come up with something like this?
http://smashboards.com/threads/3-5-...-wheres-my-tail-edition.378700/#post-18578633

 

[BJN39]

It was to my understanding that both kicks sent at 361 degrees meaning you could not DI strong kick. sakurai angle sends higher at higher % and against aerial opponents. 3.5 fair sends at 40 degrees now, but flub hitbox is sakurai angle. 3.5 bair all sends at sakurai angle. I do not know which scaling the 361 angle follows.. SSB64, SSBM, or SSBB. I would assume SSBM because Brawl angles are very low. So below about 32% bair will send at an angle of 0 degrees allowing you to secure an edgeguard fair might not have allowed.

Eh, whatever, that's all unimportant, I can enjoy playing her again.

A little late, but I just wanted to mention a few things regarding this:

I'm not 100% sure how drastic the difference between Sakurai angles in Melee or Brawl is, but Sakurai angle should scale it's angle with the KB stats of the move for hits on grounded opponents. An airborne opponent will always be sent at 45 degrees by a Sakurai angle. If it matters. So BAir's sweet-spot shod in most cases be sending at an angle of 45 or higher if I'm thinking correctly.

Also, iirc, FAir's sweetspots USED to send at an angle of 35 (Or was that just the crit-sweet-spot?) I wouldn't remember without looking whether the large sweet-spot always had a 5 degree higher angle, but imo it sounds weird. So...did it really get an angle raise of 5 degrees?

Also, hai everybody! ^ ^ been a while since I posted here.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Took a game off Smash G0d today at our weekly in what was essentially GF. Match starts at 1:02, and be sure to watch the player cam at 4:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbb00tS7Nfc#t=1m2s

 

[Downdraft]

What are Zelda's playstyles and what others characters share a similar playstyle?
I ask because I don't have a secondary in 3.5 and have locked on to 1 or 2 characters in all Smash games instead of giving entire rosters a good shot.

 

[Kaeldiar]

What are Zelda's playstyles and what others characters share a similar playstyle?
I ask because I don't have a secondary in 3.5 and have locked on to 1 or 2 characters in all Smash games instead of giving entire rosters a good shot.

Defensive with a weak neutral but heavy punish game. Capitalizes on mistakes and lack of MU knowledge. Loses to smart, careful play. Poor DI will lead to huge punishes, good DI leads to very little. Hard reads are required at the highest level.

Similar:
Bowser, Peach, DK, Ganon

 

[WhiteCrow]

Don't know how the hell I missed this thread. Hey all. Bring gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

http://gfycat.com/BlackandwhiteVioletConey
http://gfycat.com/AngelicIndelibleIndianabat#
http://gfycat.com/ComfortableUnsungBlackrussianterrier

 

[Downdraft]

Don't know how the hell I missed this thread. Hey all. Bring gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

http://gfycat.com/BlackandwhiteVioletConey
http://gfycat.com/AngelicIndelibleIndianabat#
http://gfycat.com/ComfortableUnsungBlackrussianterrier

edit: Nevermind, I figured you might have edited the OP. Now it makes sense that you posted them in the chat and social since we don't get notifications for edited posts.

 

[4tlas]

Grand Finals of Level Up Smash 1.2 in Manchester, New Hampshire. I played this opponent in Winners Semis as well and barely won 2-1.

On a side note (but somehow relevant), how do you all feel about the Falcon matchup? I have heard wildly differing opinions...


Edit: OF COURSE I FORGOT THE LINK ZELDAS A STRONG INDEPENDENT PRINCESS WHO DONT NEED NO LINK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgtQeQ3dSc4&feature=youtu.be

 

[BlackMamba]

Grand Finals of Level Up Smash 1.2 in Manchester, New Hampshire. I played this opponent in Winners Semis as well and barely won 2-1.

On a side note (but somehow relevant), how do you all feel about the Falcon matchup? I have heard wildly differing opinions...

Think it's pretty bad if the Falcon knows Zelda and how to apply jab pressure

 

[BlackMamba]

Think it's pretty bad if the Falcon knows Zelda and how to apply jab pressure

Not squirtle bad. But second worst matchup bad (I mean I GUESS you could argue marth is second worst but I have way more trouble with really solid captain falcons)
Edit: actually now that I think about it I think G&W is worse than Marth

 

[4tlas]

Not squirtle bad. But second worst matchup bad (I mean I GUESS you could argue marth is second worst but I have way more trouble with really solid captain falcons)

God **** Squirtle. Tiny, armor, fast, disjoints. Ew.

I also remembered to put the link to the video back into my post lol

 

[BlackMamba]

God **** Squirtle. Tiny, armor, fast, disjoints. Ew.

I also remembered to put the link to the video back into my post lol

lol this squirtle main I talked to a couple days ago tried to argue that squirtle has no good matchups... uh sir please, show our community a half-decent squirtle "not having a good matchup" against Zelda, I'm sure we'd all love to see

 

[WhiteCrow]

Squirtle is pretty rough... so many tools lose their efficiency against his fast d-tilt, seemingly mindless side-b approaches, and his high knock back recovery. I think, at top level play, Squirtle, Marth, Fox, Mewtwo, and Roy are Zelda's hardest matchups. They're winnable but 60/40 at least, and we don't have a lot of footage showing success in those matchups. Ike, G&W, Jiggs, Ganon on small stages, Luigi, and Kirby are also rough but manageable. I wish that active mines would stop Squirtle's side-b but it's not in the cards.

 

[4tlas]

Squirtle is pretty rough... so many tools lose their efficiency against his fast d-tilt, seemingly mindless side-b approaches, and his high knock back recovery. I think, at top level play, Squirtle, Marth, Fox, Mewtwo, and Roy are Zelda's hardest matchups. They're winnable but 60/40 at least, and we don't have a lot of footage showing success in those matchups. Ike, G&W, Jiggs, Ganon on small stages, Luigi, and Kirby are also rough but manageable. I wish that active mines would stop Squirtle's side-b but it's not in the cards.

Doesnt Dins stop sideB? I know I used it to in 3.02. I think.

 

[BlackMamba]

Doesnt Dins stop sideB? I know I used it to in 3.02. I think.

Not usually, no