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My actual job involves teaching kids, and my roles in all school clubs have always been about coordinating/entertaining newer members. Its just kinda what I do.
Overall, not bad. Good use of Din's and telecancel. You got caught using the same things a few times, and sometimes picked a sub-optimal option, but not bad.
I did some experiments in this game and I'm not sure they were a good idea, but people in the audience freaked out so #worth. 3 things I did that I wouldn't normally do were 1) try to punish spin attack with a lightning stomp (I screwed up the short hop and ended up whiffing the punish), 2) end a combo string with a lightning stomp instead of lightning kick, and 3) try to edgeguard Link with lightning stomp (just plain stupid of me). Basically I'm bad with lightning stomp and I wanted to see if I could do some things with it.
Hey there! (long response coming up, I hope you find it helpful) So I've actually worked specifically on two of the things you tried during this set (utilizing sheik and using Zelda's dair effectively) and gotten pretty good with them so I can give you a tip. Basically, don't ever try challenging someone with the stomp when you're trying to get down (even if you sweetspot, there's a good chance you'll trade with the opponents antiair, which for a light floaty like zelda is often deadly). When you're it for edge guarding, you have a couple options. The hitbox can actually reach slightly beneath the stage when you're on it, so if you have good timing you can short hop, stomp from onstage and meteor your opponent when they're trying to recover from below. Then of course you can go offstage, but zelda has so many good edge guarding tools that the only time this is really worthwhile is 1) if the opponents recovery doesn't have great priority and you feel like you can time/land the sweetspot (e.g. fox and falco) or 2) you scare a sword character into up-bing early with an empty jump, then fastfall stomp during the hang time before they grab the ledge. I don't know if sweetspotting the dair is an issue you have (it was for me for sure) but if you are, it's probably because you're doing it too close to the opponent. The sweetspot is just below her foot, not on the foot itself. Also, you HAVE to l-cancel when using this move cuz the landing lag is awful
Disclaimer: I have not watched the videos.
Glad I could help, and thanks for the welcome
That's interesting, because I had an easier time with long combos in 3.02, although I can more reliably get 2-3 hits strung together in 3.5.
Hi. I do not, because I don't like the new mechanics from a design/idea standpoint as far as their concept, reason for being changed at all, and how they ended up - most notably dins and the way up-b cancels work.
3.5 Zelda isn't as exciting to watch or play as 3.02 Zelda, but it is my understanding that her changes partially were to make her less annoying to play against. I'm not sure if people are accepting her more in 3.5, but the changes haven't really affected my game since my Zelda was moderate at best, i.e. I did not use traps, was unable to have much success with her in high level play, did not understand several matchups, did not practice against several others, etc. I play the game competitively, but I feel like I haven't improved much in the past several months or so.
Because it's not as good. It's more annoying, certainly, but it's not as good.
)
The canonical Din's Fire would leave Zelda open to extreme punishment, so perhaps it's good they didn't copy OoT.
I haven't thought this through much, but I believe the new Din's is better for low and mid-level Zelda play. 2.6b/3.02 Din's required much more skill to use effectively but needed to be mastered in order to master Zelda. Gone are the formations and stage control, but you can still combo off the Din's. Basically, old Din's was much harder to use. Few players would actually unlock its full potential, so was there really a need to change it?
Personally, I got to start learning Zelda shortly before the changes implemented at 3.5 came to light. I wasn't able to get used to speed of 3.02's Din's Fire nor a quick change in trajectory by merely holding up or down on the control stick. I'm sure that if I did get used to them, I would use them to their utmost potential, but then 3.5 came out.
I really liked the changes to Zelda's Din's Fire. Since I was more or less transitioning from Smash 4 (3DS) Zelda, the process was as smooth as diamonds and I was able to quickly adapt to the changes. I've often gotten comments on how effective I am at Din's placement in the map, as well as the utility of the boomerang effect.
I still have a long way to go before I truly master Zelda. But I want to create my own style for her, not just simply follow the mold. I want her to be my own, an extension of who I am when I play Smash. So I guess the better I get with her, the better I become as a person (though that may be a hyperbole
Good luck. By the way, there isn't a "mold" for Zelda. I don't know two Zelda mains that are alike.I didn't feel very disappointed when I tried 3.5 Zelda for the first time, but I don't have your experience or intelligence with Project M either, so that could explain it. Drastic changes affect the players that made the most of the original data more than anyone else. I do not believe I was particularly good at any aspect of Zelda's moveset; therefore, the changes had little effect on me.
That's basically the gist of my comment. 2.6/3.0 Din's were more complex. For those who could use them skillfully, the attack reaped great rewards and was fun. For most Zelda players, I'd imagine that 3.0 Din's was nothing special. On that note, 3.5 isn't all that special either, so the transition wasn't much of an upgrade or downgrade.
That's awesome! Glad to hear you're making progress! I put in some serious work with Zelda at my last tourney. 3 upsets and actually put some pressure on Redd (got him to 2-stocks and 100+%). Missed out on playing Junebug, so I guess that'll have to wait for another time :/ Telecancel to platforms is a really good option when you can get it. I set time to infinite (so I can practice w/o CPUs), go to WW and BF, lock the camera so I can see the whole stage, and just practice that way. It's a trick you'll definitely want to pick up, especially for recovering. It gives you a much faster option when recovering!I just want to post a little more on my progress with 3.5 Zelda.
My biggest problem thus far is with her teledashing. Getting around platforms, despite my practice, is still exceedingly difficult given how punishable a teleport mistake is now. Like Magus said, it's significatly more endlag than a flubbed airdodge and I don't believe that the rewards of moving quickly around the stage with teleport is worth the risk of eating all that lag. I might as well always just use teleburn because at least I'll have coverage on that endlag.
Nayrus is pretty cool now. You can get a horizontal boost out of hitstun similar to Love Jump. I call it Love Slide.
Strating to get consistent with how Dins moves but not enough to really break it down into a set of discrete formations. but I'll get back to you guys on that later for the sake of trying to spread knowledge
I wouldn't call it tricky, but I too feel that I luck into punishes more than anything else. Where my experiences differ are the control aspect; I feel that the new Din's is easier to maneuver especially when it slows down. One thing I miss about the old Din's is the ability to manipulate my opponent's movements and the ability to set them up to cover my approach.
I didn't even notice it got updated. I'll go look. I'll give feedback there I guess.@4tlas : I understand your argument.
On a matter unrelated to this topic, would someone provide feedback on my set with Reflex that I posted in the video thread? I haven't played a human Dedede in quite a while, and I have not learned the Ivysaur matchup.
The back air is a Sakurai angle, which is problematic. The spacing on the kicks is extremely similar to Melee, but I also would attempt to go deep for the critical, so I feel like the option for the critical should still be there as it does nothing but disadvantage you, preventing optimal spacing, and allows one to go deeper for the hit if desired. But I digress. Truth is I've had trouble landing kicks in some scenarios where I feel like they should have landed, but ultimately they did not.@Prynne : Could you explain how you feel about the kicks? They're still powerful and fast, so I don't understand your concern.
There are times when you would've gotten a critical in 3.02, but you'll get a flub in 3.5 :/ So you have to just think "tipper" now. I don't really like this mentality, because I thought adding more reward for more risk was a great idea (also Brawl kicks were MMMMM), but it's certainly not on my "must fix" list for a future update.
I post http://smashboards.com/threads/minesweeper-mine-formations-and-you.351488/ in response to the bold part, and that thread is just the tip of the iceberg. 3.02 Din's had much greater utility and will likely still prove to be the harder one to master of the two. You have to think when using either version of the attack, but I believe 3.02 will remain superior even after we've figured out how to use 3.5 Din's.
Why not teleport to the ledge for an edgeguard? If the opponent recovers onto the stage, then you can Lightning Kick from the ledge. There really wasn't anything for me to critique. You played very well and demonstrated some proficiency with 3.5 Din's and telecanceling. Congrats on winning that round.
I finally learned how to auto-snap the edge with an aerial Farore's! I am so proud of myself!
I don't trust myself to not SD, whether because my opponent arrives first or I don't let go of the control stick in time. I also don't trust myself to space a lightning kick off the ledge, especially in 3.5. Those are definitely both things I should work on, though! Thanks.
Luis Alonso
did you see him do it starting from a platform? If you ride the ground the best you can do is cancel right above the ledge and grab it while starting your fall, but that isn't the same thing.