Air-dodging an Olimar usmash is asking for pain.
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Zelda+Sheik Matchup Listing
- Thread starter Zankoku
- Start date
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
everytime I've done it I can get off a dsmash or nayru's before olimar can do a thing.
TheFast
Smash Lord
You should add StZ to your guide as somebody you might fight.
It's not a really important matchup to list. Everyone knows that using Sheik or Zelda individually is inferior to using both.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
Usually, yeah.
Though I find myself finding less and less situations where I require Zelda to do well.
But that's probably because I lack practice with her.
I'm sure there are Zelda mains out there who find no use in transforming either.
It's hard to find that middle ground... it just takes a lot of practice and experience with BOTH characters, and I can't get that experience with Zelda unless I go Zelda-only in matches for a long period of time.
That's next on my agenda.
Zelda, here I come!
Though I find myself finding less and less situations where I require Zelda to do well.
But that's probably because I lack practice with her.
I'm sure there are Zelda mains out there who find no use in transforming either.
It's hard to find that middle ground... it just takes a lot of practice and experience with BOTH characters, and I can't get that experience with Zelda unless I go Zelda-only in matches for a long period of time.
That's next on my agenda.
Zelda, here I come!
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
oh god >_< it's truly sad and I'mn ashamed to admit it... but even though I KNOW Zelda/Shiek does better against a given charcter, and I've played the matchup in friendlies and done well.... sometimes I'll just stay as Zelda when I'm afraid of losing momentum in a matchup -_-
I'm ashamed but.... I just feel more secure that way
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
May i ask why is Yoshi 50-50 VS Zelda :o
Just a question Ok? If Zelda is anti-aerial and Yoshi is an aerialist o_o then...um...
Explain please ;3 *puppy face*
Just a question Ok? If Zelda is anti-aerial and Yoshi is an aerialist o_o then...um...
Explain please ;3 *puppy face*
I think it'd be better if you told me what the matchup actually is and why. Because I have practically no experience in that matchup.
RoyalBlood
Smash Ace
Me neither >_< I just assumed that since Zelda is anti-aerialist she could have some kind of advantage
8D I mean Jigglypuff, Peach and Luigi, that are aerialists suffer from some problems against Zelda, BUT they can do some nasty things to Zelda (well, maybe jigglypuff not :o ) I mean Peach can combo like a b*tch and Luigi's aerials just have too much knockback increase and comboability =/
Yoshi's dangerous moves are Dair (too much damage) F-smash and U-smash, maybe Fair too, all the other are not a big concern.
Zelda outprioritazes Yoshi a lot on the ground and in the air she can hold her own ( i think o_o)
Zelda's weak Dair to footstool is horrendous for Yoshi and she has no trouble edgeguarding him with D-smash or D-tilt at the edge that take away Yoshi's jumps
Lightning kicks are normal difficulty to connect, egg roll is easily countered egg toss on the other hand can be troublesome
Up-tilt and U-smash both of them beat Yoshi's Bomb and i think that's all
Like i said i'm clueless about the match-up so... 0_0 better ask a Yoshi main ;3
8D I mean Jigglypuff, Peach and Luigi, that are aerialists suffer from some problems against Zelda, BUT they can do some nasty things to Zelda (well, maybe jigglypuff not :o ) I mean Peach can combo like a b*tch and Luigi's aerials just have too much knockback increase and comboability =/
Yoshi's dangerous moves are Dair (too much damage) F-smash and U-smash, maybe Fair too, all the other are not a big concern.
Zelda outprioritazes Yoshi a lot on the ground and in the air she can hold her own ( i think o_o)
Zelda's weak Dair to footstool is horrendous for Yoshi and she has no trouble edgeguarding him with D-smash or D-tilt at the edge that take away Yoshi's jumps
Lightning kicks are normal difficulty to connect, egg roll is easily countered egg toss on the other hand can be troublesome
Up-tilt and U-smash both of them beat Yoshi's Bomb and i think that's all
Like i said i'm clueless about the match-up so... 0_0 better ask a Yoshi main ;3
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Har Har my field. Yoshi vs Shiek is 45-55.
What Yoshi has going for him is his B Air, his grab and the fact on the ground he can almost match your speed with his tilts. Yoshi can approach relatively safely with B Air and can defend himself against virtually everything Shiek has with pivot grabs.
Shiek on the other hand counters Yoshi's terrible shield and roll. Shiek can pressure away and when Yoshi finally breaks out of his shell, Shiek has the speed to take advantage of the lag. A defensive Yoshi is what's going to give Sheik trouble and so you wan't to be playing the same way. Abuse needle camping because if you're on the ball you're not going to get egg throw'd. When he does come to you, chance's are he's going to be B Airing away. Shiek when spaced correctly can really crack his defences, with dash attacks and smart shield grabbing.
When you do get inside, you can F Tilt the day away and SH N Airs work wonders. Just be careful to not give him room to breathe because he's got some quick moves at his disposal too as well as that really annoying Pivot Grab. Constantly be on the lookout for the pivot grab because it's really good. Luckily, Yoshi's throws don't do much, he doesn't have any guaranteed follow ups for a grab on Shiek, nor a chaingrab, so if he does get you, it's most likely an added 10ish %
Yoshi also has trouble KOing so you're on fairly even footing there. Don't expect to get a gimp either because despite what people say a smart Yoshi is **** near ungimpable. DJ will almost always get him back on its own and he can air dodge at any time during it.
This is going to be a long battle, so save up them D Smashes and if you can B Airs too so you can get the kill earlier then him.
What Yoshi has going for him is his B Air, his grab and the fact on the ground he can almost match your speed with his tilts. Yoshi can approach relatively safely with B Air and can defend himself against virtually everything Shiek has with pivot grabs.
Shiek on the other hand counters Yoshi's terrible shield and roll. Shiek can pressure away and when Yoshi finally breaks out of his shell, Shiek has the speed to take advantage of the lag. A defensive Yoshi is what's going to give Sheik trouble and so you wan't to be playing the same way. Abuse needle camping because if you're on the ball you're not going to get egg throw'd. When he does come to you, chance's are he's going to be B Airing away. Shiek when spaced correctly can really crack his defences, with dash attacks and smart shield grabbing.
When you do get inside, you can F Tilt the day away and SH N Airs work wonders. Just be careful to not give him room to breathe because he's got some quick moves at his disposal too as well as that really annoying Pivot Grab. Constantly be on the lookout for the pivot grab because it's really good. Luckily, Yoshi's throws don't do much, he doesn't have any guaranteed follow ups for a grab on Shiek, nor a chaingrab, so if he does get you, it's most likely an added 10ish %
Yoshi also has trouble KOing so you're on fairly even footing there. Don't expect to get a gimp either because despite what people say a smart Yoshi is **** near ungimpable. DJ will almost always get him back on its own and he can air dodge at any time during it.
This is going to be a long battle, so save up them D Smashes and if you can B Airs too so you can get the kill earlier then him.
I'm well aware of how the Yoshi matchup is for SHEIK. I have no idea how it goes for ZELDA.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Err, sorry. Use U Smash?
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
having played competent yoshis, I can say that, despite Zelda generally being better, she really doesn't have specific advantages against yoshi. Her attacks are walls of priority, but he's **** hard to kill as heavy as he is, and he can beat zelda up in the air.... uair kills at low damages.
Blistering Speed
Smash Champion
Erm Snake: MK is 55:45, just ask M2k.
Also Olimar: Zelda is 60:40. He can outcamp and outrange you, if he plays smart Zelda has a very hard time penetrating his defences. However she can dish it out when she does.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
M2K says silly things to make MK look worse than he is to avoid getting him banned.. At least that's how it seems. Regardless, everyone else says it's MK's advantage, even other pros, so I trust the majority there. I'm sure it's not an overwhelming advantage either way, but if you see what MK can do to snake off the edge at any damage, it's just unfair.
as for Zelda:Olimar... it might be worse than 60:40... but if it is, it's barely worse and is a hell of a lot closer to 60:40 than it is 80:20. Even Rykoshet, who is harsh on zelda (fair, but harsh) says there's no way the matchup is any worse for zelda than 70:30. And he didn't even suggest it WAS 70:30... just that anything more than that was ridiculous. 60:40 is probably correct. it might be 65:35 though.
honestly zelda CAN approach olimar. it's not the easiest thing to do, but she CAN do it. and, when she does, she can dish out the punishment for it. she's also adept at killing him because Dsmash comes out quick enough that Olimar can't defend against it well if she's in range and it FORCES him to need his tether to recover... which is when he dies.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
he's not fast. just FW and he'll have to guess where you are going to go... if he's not right, he can't make it to you in time... or you could just airdodge and land right next to him and then Dsmash him or grab him if he sheilds.
I'm not saying it's not a disadvantageous position, it's just not hopeless
Brinzy
Godfather of the Crimean Mafia
Why is Fox 60:40 on Zelda? What can he do that gives him the advantage? Zelda gives Fox a rough time. Also, make Ness a neutral with Zelda, just for kicks. (That's the new decision and it is written down on said board.)
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
I wouldn't say that zelda's disadvantages with game and watch or metaknight are that bad.
60:40 at worst for MK and 70:30 at worst for game and watch... but otherwise the list seems pretty good.
60:40 at worst for MK and 70:30 at worst for game and watch... but otherwise the list seems pretty good.
I fail to see how it's 60:40 for MK at worst. That's like saying Zelda might go even or even have an advantage.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
oh good point... yeah there's no way it's zelda's advatage.
it's not a bad matchup though. it plays 60:40... really it does. It's closer to 55:45 than it is 65:35.
65:35 is almost hard counter territory and there's no way it's that bad.
Do you have any videos, tournament players, anything to support this point? I really want to see exactly how this matchup is supposed to look.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
do you have something to support the opposite?
I'll have to look for specific videos... but I know the common consensus is that MK isn't THAT bad for Zelda.... not that it matters if he gets banned.
I have no evidence pointing toward anything, but you're the one making the claim, so I'd appreciate support to that before I go and change things.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
ah well I can't give you anything solid yes besides that no zelda main seems to think it's that bad. including myself. I'm inclined to beleive all the zelda mains over the sheik's guide 
Zelda mains aren't in perfect agreement.... but we don't think it's as bad as 65:35... though maybe it is.
but for game and watch. he's tough, but 80:20 is ridiculous.... that's unwinnable XD he's not THAT bad... he's 70:30 no harder... I've never seen a video, a personal accaunt or had any experience stating G&W is THAT bad. he's bad sure, but he's 70:30 bad... maybe 65:34 or 60:40 if you can affectively dual main.
MK is hard no matter what you do... I don't think he's much easier dual maining than playing a straight zelda... if it's easier at all.
Zelda mains aren't in perfect agreement.... but we don't think it's as bad as 65:35... though maybe it is.
but for game and watch. he's tough, but 80:20 is ridiculous.... that's unwinnable XD he's not THAT bad... he's 70:30 no harder... I've never seen a video, a personal accaunt or had any experience stating G&W is THAT bad. he's bad sure, but he's 70:30 bad... maybe 65:34 or 60:40 if you can affectively dual main.
MK is hard no matter what you do... I don't think he's much easier dual maining than playing a straight zelda... if it's easier at all.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Hmm... I actually think it really depends on match up experience
Like if you don't fight meta knights often you should use Zelda but once you start getting extend practice against meta knights using sheik then you can start using the tag team effectively enough that zelda by herself wont necessarily be as effective.
Hypothetically though if you master sheik short hop into chain(it doesn't need to be jacked) and grab release into DACUS then Zelda wont even be needed.
why do people think chain is good in this game lol
popsofctown
Smash Champion
It is good.... especially against stupid people. It's kind of sad how many people will run into the chain to try and hit you, even if they have a projectile.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Uh...no, that's wrong pops, it's good if you can jacket it with an attack and use it to edgeguard. The problem is that it's difficult to pull off and requires time...something that you don't have unless they're off the stage, and if they're off the stage, then you can do something with that time instead of using it to jacket.
As for the MK talk, the only Zelda who i've seen do well against MK is Darkmusician vs. Terrence(whoever that is), so I really don't think we can make an accurate assessment at this point. It's still clearly in MK's favor by a large margin until proven otherwise.
Tristan_win
Not dead.
Gimpy I thought the same exact thing until I fought Ryoko and he anally **** me with it.
If used correctly the chain can be sooo **** good especially if you are having trouble landing a ftilt on someone or even if you just can't tilt lock them. I've also found it great for edge pressure against a good deal of characters and is nice to whip out once and a while on selective character if you are fighting someone who shield aerial approaches often instead of trying to counter them immediately with a attack or even if they approach mainly from the air.
Because I've started using the chain in my game play I've been scoring a lot more dsmash kills, which is nice.
edit: I still don't give a rats *** about chain jacking though but jump into chain by it's self is hot.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
why should we assume that? MK has non **** matchups. I'd assume advantage, but nothing leads me to believe it's a huge one.
Because no Zelda has ever gone up against the better MK's. If the matchup were that close, I assure you someone would be trying to take advantage of that.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
60:40? really... MK has enough 55:45 and other that a 60:40 that it's not worth it to pick up zelda just to use her against MK.
Timbers
check me out
not like i should care, but those zelda numbers are extremely biased in zelda's favor lol.
Going through it she has like 25 advantageous matchups and 3 disadvantages, and the remaining few are even.
Lol.
iirc, Zelda boards have both said that Ike and Wolf are disadvantages to Zelda, which would make this list inaccurate, assuming what they've agreed upon was correct. I don't play Zelda, so I can't go into disproving anything, but the numbers seem way too good for a character ranked in such a mediocre fashion on the tier list. I would think that a character with so many amazing matchups would get some more rep in the metagame haha.
Going through it she has like 25 advantageous matchups and 3 disadvantages, and the remaining few are even.
Lol.
iirc, Zelda boards have both said that Ike and Wolf are disadvantages to Zelda, which would make this list inaccurate, assuming what they've agreed upon was correct. I don't play Zelda, so I can't go into disproving anything, but the numbers seem way too good for a character ranked in such a mediocre fashion on the tier list. I would think that a character with so many amazing matchups would get some more rep in the metagame haha.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
meh... yeah you are right about Ike. not zelda's favourite.... but wolf is about even, maybe even slightly in our favour.
and I know... her matchups ARE too good for her position... hence our displeasure with it.
Given such matchups, there's three possibilities.
She's underrated and every single Zelda player simply sucks because they can't get any kind of success with such amazing matchup numbers.
She's being overrated by the Zelda mains and they're losing because Zelda in fact doesn't have such high matchup numbers.
Both Zelda mains suck and her matchup numbers are too high.
She's underrated and every single Zelda player simply sucks because they can't get any kind of success with such amazing matchup numbers.
She's being overrated by the Zelda mains and they're losing because Zelda in fact doesn't have such high matchup numbers.
Both Zelda mains suck and her matchup numbers are too high.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
could also be that she's horribly underplayed... seriously we have almost zero repesentation with zelda.
but her bad matchups come in the top teirs... so it's hard for her to break into the top levels.
if only she were a bit harder to kill.