Zelda information thread (last edit 02-24) Cleaning up, changing sections

[white_mage]

I found that list very interesting. (Notice Dixie is on there as well.)
But who or what is the Zako-ball/boy/girl/child

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I found that list very interesting. (Notice Dixie is on there as well.)
But who or what is the Zako-ball/boy/girl/child

They're the Alloys in Multi-Man Brawl. Ball=green, child=yellow(Mario), boy=red(CF), and girl=blue(Zelda). Red Alloy = Zako Red in Japanese, etc.

 

[Metroid_01]

I can add a bit of info on Zelda. I dont have as much extensive knowledge as I do on my main (Samus), but I picked up Zelda pretty shortly in because she is unbelievably good. I only transformed into sheik to try abusing the invincibility frames during final smashes really. Sheik was still all nasty and stuff, but not even close to as fun as Zelda.

I didnt play her in melee, so I dont know much about her back there, but I can say this... everything about her is very impressive.

Her side B is definitely a kill move, I landed more than few kills with it. It looks fast and significantly less abusable than before.

Neutral B is pretty fast. I toyed around flinging myself at someone and throwing that up...mostly ended in tears though. Its quick and we will definitely find use for it.

Up B appears to have damage, and you guys will know the range more than I will. But I believe on appearing and disappearing it does a small about of damage and knockback. Nice.

Her tilts were good, *especially* up tilt. I tried to avoid down though, because of down smash.

Her up air can kill as good %s for brawl, and her forward air has a really small hitbox, but eats souls when it connects. Expect things to die when you land that.

Down air is actually a good meteor now. I killed someone with it once. It was exciting.

Her neutral air was really good when I hit with it. I kept using it like I would mewtwo's, but with her higher short hop and the high hitbox of the attack, I didnt connect a bunch. I have *no* idea if it was that way in melee or not.

Up smash has the same property as her up-tilt, but it holds them longer, and does more damage...but same knockback (give or take a bit)

forward smash seemed to have really good priority and the knockback was alright.

Down smash was fast as hell still, and sent them farther than I remember Zelda doing it in melee.

Her throws were solid. Dont quote me on this, but I think she had a killing forward throw. I think she used throws as a setup in melee, but I didnt use them that way...I never landed much off a throw. Of course, I could almost never hit a sweetspotted f-air or b-air so... *shrug*.

And all her magic attacks have nice sound effects =).

Overall, she is alot of fun, and is very solid. The only thing that I did not like about her is that her up B is really hard to recover with. It was the same way in Melee, but thats how those teleports are...just takes getting used to. She will probably end up my second/third character. (Since I main Samus, might as well use Zero Suit too, tho I think I like Zelda more).

Zelda mains, you have nothing to worry about this time.

 

[white_mage]

Zelda mains, you have nothing to worry about this time.

Music to my ears. I definitely cannot wait to save her in SSE.

 

[Airgemini]

MAJOR SPOILERS

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtUbat4jdA

it has some zelda gameplay in it

Wow everyone's recovery will be a lot better this time around.

 

[Drake3]

Zelda mains, you have nothing to worry about this time.

Bittersweet. While I do love the fact that she's moved up, I would be unhappy if people started playing her just because she's good now.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Bittersweet. While I do love the fact that she's moved up, I would be unhappy if people started playing her just because she's good now

That was my worry also. I don't want to see Wifi infested with sudden Zelda's simply because she's "good" now.
I like playing an under-rated character.

 

[Ztarfish]

Wow thank you Metroid :D
And I agree with Drake, I would much rather prefer the board stay roughly the same size during the release rather than everyone and their piano teachers flooding this board because she's super good.

 

[GameAngel64]

I'm glad she's better, and I'm not afraid of other people swarming to use her. For one, many of the very childish will not want to main a female character. Plus I'm saying people will want to stick with their favs, as long as they are good and viable, and Zelda didn't have too many fans in Melee. But I guess only time will tell.

 

[Stiputation]

I dunno. I agree, I seriously don't want to have everyone using Zelda either simply because shes improved.

Literally NO ONE used her in Melee. EVERYONE talked about how much they used Sheik and how much Zelda sucked, and now simply because shes buffed DOES NOT call for a massive influx of people that want to use her simply because she plays much better.

I already see people claiming "OMG I USED ZELDA IN MELEE. NOW I'LL USE HER IN BRAWL TOO!"
I will be highly peeved lest this situation come to pass. :/

 

[Metroid_01]

I dont think it will be a big problem. For the most part it felt like all the characters I played were pretty viable. People are more likely to play what they like it seems, and Zelda is still an odd choice for most (mostly due to a serious lack of popularity in Melee). I went through and played almost every character atleast once, and I happened to like the style of Zelda alot more than others. I was also the only one in our group of people to stick with Zelda. We all grabbed a different character to try out from our mains in melee... Ike, Marth, Pit, Snake, etc. They were all really fun to play for different people.

I have only said that zelda has improved significantly and that she will definitely be a viable option in Brawl. It is impossible to say exactly how she compares to other characters in the game at this time. People that wanted to play Zelda but could not deal with the fact that she was not very good may pick her up, and those that like her style (like me) may pick her up...but theres no evidence to support a mass influx of new players because Zelda is the new broken thing on the block.

 

[Drake3]

I dont think it will be a big problem. For the most part it felt like all the characters I played were pretty viable. People are more likely to play what they like it seems, and Zelda is still an odd choice for most (mostly due to a serious lack of popularity in Melee). I went through and played almost every character atleast once, and I happened to like the style of Zelda alot more than others. I was also the only one in our group of people to stick with Zelda. We all grabbed a different character to try out from our mains in melee... Ike, Marth, Pit, Snake, etc. They were all really fun to play for different people.

I have only said that zelda has improved significantly and that she will definitely be a viable option in Brawl. It is impossible to say exactly how she compares to other characters in the game at this time. People that wanted to play Zelda but could not deal with the fact that she was not very good may pick her up, and those that like her style (like me) may pick her up...but theres no evidence to support a mass influx of new players because Zelda is the new broken thing on the block.

Now that's what I like to hear. Thanks for the info by the way.

 

[Luthien]

I dunno. I agree, I seriously don't want to have everyone using Zelda either simply because shes improved.

Literally NO ONE used her in Melee. EVERYONE talked about how much they used Sheik and how much Zelda sucked, and now simply because shes buffed DOES NOT call for a massive influx of people that want to use her simply because she plays much better.

I use Zelda in Melee! I live in a rather nooby area, so it doesn't really matter who you main, you can still be better than anyone else. I've tried to use the two together, but whether or not I'm taking the match seriously effects what I do. I tend to use Zelda if I need to win (my Sheik is slightly worse, believe it or not...).

I already see people claiming "OMG I USED ZELDA IN MELEE. NOW I'LL USE HER IN BRAWL TOO!"
I will be highly peeved lest this situation come to pass. :/

Meh. Like S2 said, us genuine Zelda mains know who we are. It's not like there's a big crowd for us to hide in or something...

I have only said that zelda has improved significantly and that she will definitely be a viable option in Brawl. It is impossible to say exactly how she compares to other characters in the game at this time. People that wanted to play Zelda but could not deal with the fact that she was not very good may pick her up, and those that like her style (like me) may pick her up...but theres no evidence to support a mass influx of new players because Zelda is the new broken thing on the block.

Seriously, I doubt people have chosen not to play Zelda because she sucked. I'm guessing there's a total of maybe sixty. The people who were good/decent in Melee will probably stick to their mains, and the noob influx we're worried about won't happen. Still, I hope Zelda remains somewhat of a challenge.

 

[-spAzn-]

Hmmm I sorta agree, I mean I wouldn't mind if more Zelda users popped up because it's nice to have more people support her. Though if it comes to the point where every match I see is Zelda vs Zelda and everyone starts using and abusing her like no other then it would be a little weird. One of the reasons I like Zelda is she's a unique character, the underdog I guess you could say.

Though as for right now it doesn't seems like that's happening...yet. Since there hasn't been lots of videos of her but at the same time the game hasn't been out too long so I guess we have to wait and see. Personally I don't think we have anything to worry about because of her rocky past and spew of newcomers.

EDIT: Thanks for the info Metroid everything you said is music to my ears.

 

[Luthien]

Hmmm I sorta agree, I mean I wouldn't mind if more Zelda users popped up because it's nice to have more people support her. Though if it comes to the point where every match I see is Zelda vs Zelda and everyone starts using and abusing her like no other then it would be a little weird. One of the reasons I like Zelda is she's a unique character, the underdog I guess you could say.

That's what people are worried about: the Sheik complex. Nowhere near as many people liked Sheik from OoT the way they like Sheik from Melee. Melee Sheik's fanbase is HUGE. OoT Sheik's fanbase... not so big. Granted, there are a few people who loved Sheik's character (I'm one of them), but the point I'm trying to make is:

People should enjoy Zelda because she's Zelda, not becuase she's got a top-tier moveset (which I doubt will happen anyway).

Though as for right now it doesn't seems like that's happening...yet. Since there hasn't been lots of videos of her but at the same time the game hasn't been out too long so I guess we have to wait and see. Personally I don't think we have anything to worry about because of her rocky past and spew of newcomers.

Well, yeah. Brawl's gonna be a lot bigger than Melee, so naturally there will be a bunch of Smash Virgins coming who will pick Zelda. I plan on being nice to them. Chances are, they won't have any idea how terrible Zelda was in Melee, so the noob influx probably won't have anything to do with Zelda's rocky Melee past. Competetive people, on the other hand... if they switch to Zelda (which I doubt: I'm hoping she's mid-tier), well, it depends.

EDIT: Thanks for the info Metroid everything you said is music to my ears.

Seconded!

 

[HipsterKid]

I'm not sure how new this video is but here is the Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw9wrGNxem0

Metaknight Vs. Zelda/Sheik on Pokemon Stadium 2.
WARNING: Metaknight B Spammage
From this video, you'll see three different transformations

The First occurs at 00:38. It's from Zelda to Sheik. That one starts in air and end up on ground. It takes total of two seconds for that transformation to happen.

The second occurs at 02:00. It's from Sheik back to Zelda. That one is all air. That one takes about two seconds to happen as well.

The third one happens at 02:31. It's obviously back from Zelda to Sheik. That one is also all air. That one takes two seconds. Also, if you'll notice that Metaknight tries attack Zelda/Sheik during mid transformation but he just continues to go up. No damage is taken. Invincibility frames? I think so.

So there you have it. Transform seems to take about 2 seconds. Invincibility frames seem to occur. I'm going to go ahead and assume that it's going to be easiest to transform when knocked high up in the air. You do seem to slow down though.

Oh, and Sheik's Up Air doesn't kill Metaknight until ~155 percent. :]

 

[Metroid_01]

I am glad to throw up what information I can on the characters I like, especially since most of the community only has some random videos to watch...and stuff doesnt always make sense from them.

As Hipster says, down B is pretty much the same all around. I found it useful to dodge certain final smashes because it had alot of invincibility...and seriously they will hit you no matter what you do with some of them... I dont think they will be in competitive play tho.

Luthien - Your point in the first point is kind of vague, but I think its a good one anyway (as I read it). It is true that Zelda's status in melee may have absolutely no influence over hers in brawl, but my guess is that it will be a small factor in driving people from her. Of course, the Sheik complex as you put it would be the perfect counter to that statement. Sheik had little to no popularity, but because of how great she was...everybody played her.

People, especially new players will always gravitate towards the easiest to play characters, but those characters most definitely are among Pit, MetaKnight, and DeeDeeDee. Those were easily the most popular characters used between my group of friends and we all pretty much agreed they seemed the best. Not by a ton, but those three (especially if you consider final smash) were the easiest to pick up and do well with.

But, even if Zelda ends up the best character in the game, theres no reason to act better than the Zelda players that came on only once she was really good. That will only create an elitist community here, thats not something we need.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I'm sorry to say, but in this video you linked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw9wrGNxem0
the Sheik->Zelda transformation was still noticeably shorter than the Zelda->Sheik transformation to my eye-frame counter.

 

[Metroid_01]

I'm sorry to say, but in this video you linked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw9wrGNxem0
the Sheik->Zelda transformation was still noticeably shorter than the Zelda->Sheik transformation to my eye-frame counter.

I think you are right. It looked maybe 3/4 sec faster sheik -> Zelda. Im gonna check on that. I might be able to play later tonite.

 

[Airgemini]

Yeah it did seem a bit faster...

 

[HipsterKid]

I'm sorry to say, but in this video you linked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw9wrGNxem0
the Sheik->Zelda transformation was still noticeably shorter than the Zelda->Sheik transformation to my eye-frame counter.

Well, for one, I just looked at the timer at the bottom to give a general time.
For two, I did say about two seconds.

[Sorry if that sounded rather sarcastic. It wasn't intended.]

 

[Drake3]

But, even if Zelda ends up the best character in the game, theres no reason to act better than the Zelda players that came on only once she was really good. That will only create an elitist community here, thats not something we need.

Uhh I'm pretty sure I'll cry if all the Sheikers switch sides. But hey, it'll prove that they only liked Sheik for her broken moveset. I don't know, I just have a thing against playing a character because they're clearly at an advantage. But I really don't think that's going to happen anyway. While Zelda does look buffed, she's definitely still not noob-friendly or top-tier material.

All I'm saying is that there's a clear difference between "Hey, this is actually a pretty fun character to use" and "OMG this thing is awesomely broken! HAHA LOSERS!"

And that video was painful to watch. Please don't make me do it again.

 

[Luthien]

Uhh I'm pretty sure I'll cry if all the Sheikers switch sides. But hey, it'll prove that they only liked Sheik for her broken moveset. I don't know, I just have a thing against playing a character because they're clearly at an advantage.

Yeah. That does seem shallow. However, we need to be careful about being judgemental. It's not like Sheik mainers are in league with the devil or anything.

But I really don't think that's going to happen anyway. While Zelda does look buffed, she's definitely still not noob-friendly or top-tier material.

That's the point I've been trying to make.

All I'm saying is that there's a clear difference between "Hey, this is actually a pretty fun character to use" and "OMG this thing is awesomely broken! HAHA LOSERS!"

I can't really picture anyone doing that... unless it's trash talk.

And that video was painful to watch. Please don't make me do it again.

Yeah. Are you reffering to the poor playing, or the tranformation differences? I think it applies to both... makes you really appreciate the Zelda vs. Ike gameplay video, doesn't it?

 

[Metroid_01]

Its very strange. The first thing I did when I played a while ago was try the transform. I used transform on the ground with both zelda and sheik a few times, and in the air. All 5 of us present agreed...there was no difference. I dont know why it seems faster in that video but it wasnt when we tested. Granted, this was in that one situation, who knows what other factors there might be.

Also, I am sorry, I dont really have any new info for yall today. I was only there for a bit when I remembered I need to finish a chem writeup for tomorrow (Brawl took up my entire yesterday...blah)

Although, you guys will like this...I killed MetaKnight at 80 with forward B off the top. =)
Zelda was pretty fast and had good enough priority to keep the sword storm off, so that was all nice. Definitely a fun character to play.

 

[Ztarfish]

SideB.. at 80.. off the top...
oh my bajeesus!

Thank you Metroid
And even if there is a difference, I don't really care all that much as DownB will not be one of my more utilized moves

 

[Luthien]

Its very strange. The first thing I did when I played a while ago was try the transform. I used transform on the ground with both zelda and sheik a few times, and in the air. All 5 of us present agreed...there was no difference. I dont know why it seems faster in that video but it wasnt when we tested. Granted, this was in that one situation, who knows what other factors there might be.

That's... incredibly weird. In the two youtube videos, Sheik's is consistantly faster. I guess I'll just need a copy for myself.

Also, I am sorry, I dont really have any new info for yall today. I was only there for a bit when I remembered I need to finish a chem writeup for tomorrow (Brawl took up my entire yesterday...blah)

Although, you guys will like this...I killed MetaKnight at 80 with forward B off the top. =)
Zelda was pretty fast and had good enough priority to keep the sword storm off, so that was all nice. Definitely a fun character to play.

Wow. WOW. Do you think distance had anything to do with it? We appreciate all of the info.

 

[Drake3]

I sort of want to compile a list of things we used to speculate about and see what actually got implemented. I know that we overall wanted Zelda to have better priority and knockback and it seems she's gotten both.

Also I love the news about Din's Fire. Finally her 1 projectile seems to be worthy.

 

[Metroid_01]

Ya know, the first time I heard about the distance thing was on these boards somewhere last night. If it is true, I would say absolutely. That thing was nearly at max range (which would explain why I dont recall launching people left and right with it yesterday ). According to what I read here it increases in damage, knockback and size with distance, right? I didnt give that any thought earlier, but its something I can look into.

But for now, lets just hope its just a big red deathball no matter how far it flies. I rather like that idea.


Edit: Drake, when I have more time and get to the point where I have found a way to make Samus useful in brawl (I am worried that Samus may end up the worst character in this game right now and am determined to find a way around it)...ill start really dedicating my time to Zelda...and prolly tomorrow or Tuesday ill throw together a post with everything I got on her. I cant play every day since I dont own the wii, but I can get down there every so often...and shouldn't even be on Smashboards right now since its only getting later and my lab writeup is due at 3:00 tomorrow. But, those emails just keep coming about new posts, and how can I ignore that?

 

[Drake3]

Edit: Drake, when I have more time and get to the point where I have found a way to make Samus useful in brawl (I am worried that Samus may end up the worst character in this game right now and am determined to find a way around it)

Really? The videos I've seen of Samus, she still looks pretty good. But then again I don't really play Samus so I doubt I'd be able to tell if anything got drastically changed.

...ill start really dedicating my time to Zelda...and prolly tomorrow or Tuesday ill throw together a post with everything I got on her. I cant play every day since I dont own the wii, but I can get down there every so often...

Oh no! I meant that we could just decipher what's been changed through the videos. Don't go to too much trouble or anything. D:

and shouldn't even be on Smashboards right now since its only getting later and my lab writeup is due at 3:00 tomorrow. But, those emails just keep coming about new posts, and how can I ignore that?

Yeah, like that midterm I'm "studying" for. Well I finished both of my lab write-ups and I'm not really in the mood to study irrelevant animal body parts at the moment.

Also there's a new video with Zelda in it. She's running around with Kirby. It's actually really boring but voila:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30206.html

 

[Metroid_01]

What I have noticed is that Samus is really balanced for FFA (in fact, she does great there), but she doesn't do so hot in 1v1.

Haha, playing Brawl is definitely not a chore at all! Putting my info together takes a little time, but it helps you get an overall view of the character when you try to write something more comprehensive. (Thats a good thing!) Itll happen later on when I am procrastinating on something that isnt so urgent.

 

[rampant_apart]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30196.html

Yet another FS collection. At least it's more "official" and a little cleaner and downloadable.
It's at 1:28. She insta-kills Diddy. Yay!

 

[Twilight X]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/30196.html

Yet another FS collection. At least it's more "official" and a little cleaner and downloadable.
It's at 1:28. She insta-kills Diddy. Yay!

Thank God the arrow is amazingly fast.

 

[Airgemini]

Wow nice video!
Cant wait to use on people!

 

[-spAzn-]

Alright I guess i'll post this here since my taunt thread is dead. It's a much clearer video of Zelda's taunts it has everyone elses as well. Zelda's shows up at around 7:30.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QlSxR3ebOzc

Her first two taunts are awesome. The waving i'm not to sure about, Ryoko you were right it looks very strange and awkward. She's waving and pelvic thrusting at the same time I dunno it's weird but funny. At least it would be nice to perform when your opponent is falling to their death bye bye.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Zelda's taunts are pretty nice. I would've liked one featuring the Triforce, but oh well.

The thing that astounded me in that video was Samus speaking O.O
I never expected her to speak. a few grunts here and there, but never actually speaking.

 

[Airgemini]

That waving one is sooo funny...
The way she moves when doing it is hilarious!

 

[rampant_apart]

Thank God the arrow is amazingly fast.

Hey, speed of light an all that, right?

 

[Drake3]

I love that she includes magic in some of her taunts. And ANYTHING is better than the praying one.

Also I require more videos of Zelda in competitive play. Everyone has said she's much better, but we've only seen 1 where she uses her newly acquired kick-***-ness.

 

[Airgemini]

Guys here's a video of everyones alternate outfits....Even though we know them I just thought I would post it incase you wanted to see it....
Zelda's is at 02:34-02:46

 

[Metroid_01]

The waving taunt is so strange, I thought it was a dance..hehe.

The arrow is as you guys can see pretty much instantaneous, goes through all walls and barriers (like all FS) and is an instakill provided they have a path to the sky. And, it looks awesome.