Zelda information thread (last edit 02-24) Cleaning up, changing sections

[TheLake]

Because zeldas sooo hott of course (;

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I'm more concerned of why her Usmash now sounds exactly like a mini-SMG when it's hitting the opponent.

 

[Luthien]

I'm more concerned of why her Usmash now sounds exactly like a mini-SMG when it's hitting the opponent.

...yeah, that too.

By the way, I checked the General Brawl Discussion, and came across an interesting term: Hyphen dashing. Pardon my stupidity, but I have no idea what that is. I figured someone here should know, seeing as how it "is far broken". I read this up here:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141632

 

[Drake3]

Isn't anyone wondering how Farore's Wind is making people catch fire?

...friction, perhaps?

Well two people can't be in the same space. And I guess it's better than merging with them.

Edit ^: It has to be...one of the dumbest names I've ever seen created. And I'm never using the term "Ink Dropping" ever.

But I believe it's in the Zelda vs Ike video. She slides across the floor while using USmash.

 

[Krytha]

After reading up on the stale moves, I think this hurts Zelda more than other characters. The moves Zelda players are inclined to use more of are of course the Fairs and Bairs. Unfortunately, this moves have become harder to sweetspot which means that even when you connect for a whopping 4%, that counts towards your staleness counter and if you sweetspot the very next one, it won't be as powerful, and god help you if you've been spamming it all along.

I think this is fairly evident in the Zelda videos we've seen so far, with the kick no KOing at reasonable percentages because of it being used 6 times, connecting on 4 and sweetspotting on 1.

 

[Crispy Fries]

Wait, so does the move have to connect for the "decay" to occur?
Similarly, do other moves have to connect to reverse the "decay"?

 

[Krytha]

yes, yes

and you have to mix it up. Marth piiisses me off because decay can also be reversed with grabbing someone and then kneeing them repeatedly and thats a big part of his game still, so his Fsmash doesn't necessarily suffer when hes in smart hands.

 

[Metroid_01]

yes, yes

and you have to mix it up. Marth piiisses me off because decay can also be reversed with grabbing someone and then kneeing them repeatedly and thats a big part of his game still, so his Fsmash doesn't necessarily suffer when hes in smart hands.

Was it always that way? Zelda is no worse off in the grab game than anyone else really (Though some characters do have some beastly long grabs)

 

[Krytha]

Its true that Zelda may have less trouble grabbing and replenishing decay this time around, HOWEVER, what she doesn't have is a ridiculously reliable Fsmash that KOs at low percentages all the time. What she DOES have is a great kick that is very HARD to sweetspot and the problem Im seeing here is that youll be spending lots of time replenishing the potential power of that kick with no guaranteed payoff (i.e. whiffing for 4%).

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Its true that Zelda may have less trouble grabbing and replenishing decay this time around, HOWEVER, what she doesn't have is a ridiculously reliable Fsmash that KOs at low percentages all the time. What she DOES have is a great kick that is very HARD to sweetspot and the problem Im seeing here is that youll be spending lots of time replenishing the potential power of that kick with no guaranteed payoff (i.e. whiffing for 4%).

(Psst, somebody tell him/her that the Fsmash isn't as reliable as initially thought, since it's escapable.)

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Krytha seemed aware, since the post clearly said that what Zelda doesn't have is a reliable Fsmash. >.>

Also, Zelda's grab attack is as slow as it was in Melee, but deals 3 damage a hit. It won't work as well to replenish power as other characters who can repeat grab attacks much faster but do less damage per hit (like Wolf who can like 4-5 in a second for 1 damage each hit), and each hit has the same value towards replenishing your moves as any other character's.

And with the move decay mechanics, KO'ing with Zelda at her optimal killing percentages will a science in itself. Hitting with the sourspots now carries a far greater penalty than it did in Melee, where you could just try it again, have it sweetspot, and be on your merry way. Doing that in this game will now sharply decrease the killing power of the move. The increase of the base KO power of the kicks compared to Melee suddenly makes sense with this in mind.

 

[GameAngel64]

After reading up on the stale moves, I think this hurts Zelda more than other characters. The moves Zelda players are inclined to use more of are of course the Fairs and Bairs.

HEY, just an idea here; the B-Air and F-Air count as different attacks, right? Even though in Zelda's case they both produce the same attack, which is an immensely powerful lightning kick. So, as long as you are mixing it up between F-Airs and B-Airs, one will help replenish the other, and of course you'll still have to mix in some non-kick moves, but what I'm saying is Zelda's lightning kick is only affected half as much as some other KO moves, because she has two chances to use it. Is that right? Or, even though they are produced in different directions, does the game count it as the same move being used again either way?

Maybe one kick can be used to rack up damage, and the other can be saved for the KO?

Not that I'm saying to forsake using other moves? (Personally I'm a fan of spamming the kick as little as possible).

This is probably impractical for competitive use, since in the moment it's kinda hard to make sure you're only attacking from one direction, but I'm just thinking aloud here.

 

[Airgemini]

The battles we've all been waiting for (well me at least)
Peach vs Zelda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny-xB5iNJUk
Peach vs Zelda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMnvRPVxlrQ
Peach vs Zelda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApS9I7bnbmg
Peach vs Zelda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8Uag7Qr-GI

 

[Metroid_01]

I really like how he covers himself with neutral B...

 

[rampant_apart]

Peach vs Zelda- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApS9I7bnbmg

Oh, I love that ending.

Peach: "Yay! Ledge!"
Zelda: "No."
*STOMP*

 

[GameAngel64]

I feel like NinjaLink gets better at using Brawl Zelda in every new match I see him in. Very novel, Brawl-specific ways of using her.

Also, is it my imagination, or is there a wind sound every time a character gets tossed high into the air?

 

[-spAzn-]

I agree NinjaLink's Zelda is very impressive. Looking forward for her to be in the hands of all the other competitive Zelda players that I can look up to. I think most know who you are :D.

Anyway all those Zelda Vs Peach matches were great. A couple of them had very nice usage of that strong D-air she's inherited, the ledge one was the best. I love that Farore's Wind afterburn that automatically causes shields to go up hehe. I am suprised on how many times that Peach player got caught in her smash attacks sure is satisfying until...not finishing sentence. Hope more videos pop up soon.

 

[Wind Owl]

Also, is it my imagination, or is there a wind sound every time a character gets tossed high into the air?

No, it's real. And pretty cool, too.

 

[Supersmashbro125]

What up with that taunt where her hand is in the air and she moves back and forth?
LOL it looks weird.Id rather have the praying taunt.

EDIT:hey well atleast I can use it to cheer me up when i get KOd!LOL!

Her other taunts are cool though!

 

[Airgemini]

I know its really funny...
And yeah they are...

 

[Master Peach]

This is my first time looking in this thread. RyokoYaksa I know you've visited my Thread a few times, Do you like it that much. I'm just messing with ya. But seriously your Thread does look similar to mine.

I just took a look over this this thread. You've got great info here on Zelda here. Good stuff man. Zelda looks way better much more powerful in brawl. Looks like Peach has a worthy rival to fight now.

I'll think be coming here often.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

HEY, just an idea here; the B-Air and F-Air count as different attacks, right? Even though in Zelda's case they both produce the same attack, which is an immensely powerful lightning kick. So, as long as you are mixing it up between F-Airs and B-Airs, one will help replenish the other, and of course you'll still have to mix in some non-kick moves, but what I'm saying is Zelda's lightning kick is only affected half as much as some other KO moves, because she has two chances to use it. Is that right? Or, even though they are produced in different directions, does the game count it as the same move being used again either way?

Maybe one kick can be used to rack up damage, and the other can be saved for the KO?

Not that I'm saying to forsake using other moves? (Personally I'm a fan of spamming the kick as little as possible).

This is probably impractical for competitive use, since in the moment it's kinda hard to make sure you're only attacking from one direction, but I'm just thinking aloud here.

Yes, Zelda's F-air and B-air count as different attacks as far as the game's mechanics are concerned. It's entirely possible to use one kick to build damage, while keeping the other at its full strength to save it for the even lower % KOs that the kicks are now capable of.

As far as its practicality for competitive use, knowing the exact ins and outs of this mechanic is going to be the first huge step towards advanced play. Of course, just hitting with any move you can at any opportunity will still have its value of usefulness (ie. keeping you safe from attack), but at the same time, being able to KO while having to exploit the fewest openings possible is also worth the time to figure out. And advanced/competitive players will figure it out in due time.

On another note, Transforming (twice) and dying and respawning will also reset all of your attacks to full damage/power. Also, Sheik's moves are not linked to Zelda's moves like they were in Melee in respect to move decay (although in Melee the effect was minimal to begin with). If you spam the crap out of Sheik's ftilt, then Transform into Zelda, Zelda's ftilt will be at full power.

 

[GameAngel64]

If you spam the crap out of Sheik's ftilt, then Transform into Zelda, Zelda's ftilt will be at full power.

Hmm, that kind of reinforces the notion even more of using Sheik to combo, and Zelda to KO. Decay away Sheik's moves to the minimum damage, it doesn't matter, as long as you can keep comboing, and when all of her KO moves are useless (which they're not so great to begin with now), switch to Zelda and you have a few fresh KO moves to finish off your opponent. Although I really don't see myself playing this way

 

[Wind Owl]

This is probably impractical for competitive use, since in the moment it's kinda hard to make sure you're only attacking from one direction, but I'm just thinking aloud here.

The "Moonwalking" mechanic should make this a lot more practical (even though I'm told we already had it, so it might not even be new).

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Oh, and for the curious... as far as I was told to believe, "hyphen smash" was so named because the creator(s) (who I will not name), decided that the name "dash smash" was too simplistic and uncool.

Thus, they decided on "hyphen" smash (-) as opposed to a "dash" smash (—). Note the use of the symbols. Think about them carefully.

Now if that isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen... I don't know why "sliding Usmash" couldn't have worked, since a sliding Usmash is what the technique actually produces. It's a simple C-sticking up while in the middle of a dash, which unlike Melee causes the Usmash to come out without having to cancel the run with some other method.

 

[Drake3]

Hmm, that kind of reinforces the notion even more of using Sheik to combo, and Zelda to KO. Decay away Sheik's moves to the minimum damage, it doesn't matter, as long as you can keep comboing, and when all of her KO moves are useless (which they're not so great to begin with now), switch to Zelda and you have a few fresh KO moves to finish off your opponent. Although I really don't see myself playing this way

I was actually thinking which one would be the better alternative. Risk changing back and forth from Sheik->Zelda or just replenish your KO moves by yourself. I suppose there are advantages to both.

 

[Supersmashbro125]

Zeldas attacks seemed to have improved...oh yea Zelda gonna own!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Airgemini]

Videos....
Zelda vs Link- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCV4mR9S2A
Zelda vs Bowser- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ74srVgGRU

 

[Luthien]

About the stale moves thing: do the attacks regenerate after a while, like your shield? Or do you have to die/switch to Sheik and back for it to happen?

Because if the attacks regenerate, I was thinking that you could just have the fair/bair take shifts. Use fair for a minute, then switch to bair for a minute while waiting for fair to 'recharge'.

 

[blink777]

About the stale moves thing: do the attacks regenerate after a while, like your shield? Or do you have to die/switch to Sheik and back for it to happen?

Because if the attacks regenerate, I was thinking that you could just have the fair/bair take shifts. Use fair for a minute, then switch to bair for a minute while waiting for fair to 'recharge'.

Quoted from Ryoko's thread on the subject in General Discussion:

-An attack's power decreases on a curve after each successive use, first dropping sharply, then slowly bottoming out to a bit less than half the attack's max power after about 8 uses. You recharge your moves by using different attacks. It doesn't matter if you spam 1 attack, it will still recharge your other previously used attacks.

A ridiculous amount of info on the subject here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141977

 

[Luthien]

Quoted from Ryoko's thread on the subject in General Discussion:

A ridiculous amount of info on the subject here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141977

Thanks. Sorry, I was just too lazy to read through all that again.

 

[Airgemini]

Video..Its Zelda's Brawl ending thingy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls-vKOSfyZM&feature=user

 

[Melphyr]

Must.. resist... spoiler... temptation!!!!!

 

[Soluble Toast]

Video..Its Zelda's Brawl ending thingy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls-vKOSfyZM&feature=user

*Eye twitches*
Must...resist...until...PAL...release...

She better team up with Link for an uber pwnage attack against Ganon D:<

 

[Airgemini]

Its only 8 seconds...
Its just like how in Melee when you beat one of the 1 player modes at the end they would show you a little video.....

 

[Krytha]

But... that video has the Zelda/Sheik transformation as practically instantaneous? What the heck is up with our current bubble bath transformation cutscene?

 

[Melphyr]

They're just teasing us! (Yeah I watched it...couldn't resist)

 

[Luthien]

But... that video has the Zelda/Sheik transformation as practically instantaneous? What the heck is up with our current bubble bath transformation cutscene?

I know, pathetic. Perhaps they just edited it because the ending movie can only be so long... >.>

 

[Soluble Toast]

They probably just cut a lot of the transformation footage out from that scene to make it look flashier. Is the transformation time known to be the same in the air?


False advertising FTL!

 

[blink777]

What the heck is up with our current bubble bath transformation cutscene?

lol! I love that description!

Anywho, it seems to me that at least at some point in development, they had coded/animated/created FX for the Melee-esque transformation. It was probably pulled out of the asset-graveyard for this little cutscene.