Zelda information thread (last edit 02-24) Cleaning up, changing sections

[Soluble Toast]

It would be much more helpful if you can provide images of this guide scan you're talking about. Along with any other imagery that I haven't seen and added yet...

http://www.brawlcentral.com/guide_scans.php

Zelda/ Sheik are one of the easiest characters to KO, Fox being the easiest.
I don't understand why Peach is harder to KO than Zelda though =S

 

[Airgemini]

Maybe its because her dress is more....Bigger this time...
And besides are these scans 100% accurate?

 

[Drake3]

Hmm I actually kinda like the Zelda/Sheik thing. It's like a whole "Night and Day" theme they've got going on. However, I am still of the unhappy variety because it wasn't fitting to add ZSS to Samus. PT I can understand because each of them could probably have a whole pixel to themselves, but why not Samus and ZSS.

Edit: The whole Peach being so much heavier doesn't make any sense to me. She's the one that floats, isn't she? But I guess we have to account for Toad or something.

 

[rageagainst]

amazing smashboards works... only at these random hours though, taking a break from pulling an allnighter so i am here.

Nice sig drake, ugh in the video Zelda runs SLOW or atleast of how much I can tell. Yeah i was kind of irritated that peach was heavier but she DOES have a heavier build (aka she is fatter) and has a bigger dress. weight makes a large difference, note that in Ike's FS mario had more dmg on him (9X) at the end of it but survived, while zelda had around 82 and got a star KO -.-

I don't know, i'll definately main zelda if shes mid tier, which shes turning out to be, but it woudn't be a smart move to main her if shes bottom, ill put her 2ndary, main biengOMG GENO IF HE GETS IN (doubt it but hes so cool) or link, because i kindof liked geno in the 1st place b/c he resembled link.

 

[Airgemini]

When Zelda drops through platforms her dress is huge...

 

[-spAzn-]

Yes the sites back up.

Anyway, so Brawl Central posted some character info on Zelda so here it is:

Zelda
Number of jumps: 2
Wall Hop: No
Wall Cling: No
Gliding: No
Crawling: No
Weight: Light
Speed: Normal
Best 3
Arial Forward or Back A: 67%
Aerial Up A: 81%
Side A: 104%

So those are suppose to be her best three moves and what percent they can KO Mario at. Also apparently her Fair is buffed. Ha her strongest move buffed was expecting a nerf on that. Btw does anyone know at what percent Zelda's Fair and Bair KO at in Melee? Cause I don't remember. Also she is one of the few people who can kill at a very low percent yay. One more thing it seems as though Zelda is now faster then Peach because Zelda's speed is normal yet Peach's speed is slow hmmm. I'm assuming this is all reliable info.

May Zelda be taking her ice cream back?

 

[Iris]

I remember seeing though that her Fair had terrible damage unsweetspotted in the 5 minute movie. I'll guess that it's harder to sweetspot now, but way worth it when it lands. Her up aerial seems to be getting a nice buff. So far, it seems nearly all of her moves have been improved.

BrawlCentral also shows a SSE video with her using Din's Fire and her Nair. Both seem pretty impressive.

Most importantly though, Sheik's best killing move is her up smash (89%) and her second best is over 40% away from it. I'm thinking that Fair of hers has been destroyed and even more thought has been put into comboing with Sheik and KOing with Zelda. All we need now is a video of her transforming and we can probably speculate how effective switching will be this time.

Instead of nitpicking all the fine details of the 5 minute video I'll just say this: Zelda looks way impressive this time around, and I wouldn't doubt if she got a lot more spotlight now. I'm extremely pleased.

 

[Airgemini]

Yes Zelda is looking nice .
Its a shame that Peach still doesnt seem to have any KO moves besides the Usmash at low percents.
But yeah if the Fair is harder to sweepspot I wonder just how hard it'll be to sweetspot them.

 

[.:~*Momo*~:.]

amazing smashboards works... only at these random hours though, taking a break from pulling an allnighter so i am here.

Nice sig drake, ugh in the video Zelda runs SLOW or atleast of how much I can tell. Yeah i was kind of irritated that peach was heavier but she DOES have a heavier build (aka she is fatter) and has a bigger dress. weight makes a large difference, note that in Ike's FS mario had more dmg on him (9X) at the end of it but survived, while zelda had around 82 and got a star KO -.-

I don't know, i'll definately main zelda if shes mid tier, which shes turning out to be, but it woudn't be a smart move to main her if shes bottom, ill put her 2ndary, main biengOMG GENO IF HE GETS IN (doubt it but hes so cool) or link, because i kindof liked geno in the 1st place b/c he resembled link.

How is Peach fatter? If Peach and Zelda stand next to eachother, Peach looks much skinnier... that's due to her being more cartoony though while Zelda is more realistic... though without the dresses Zelda looks heavier than Peach to me... and Zelda's dress has metal parts on it while Peach's dress is all fabric, I guess those jewels she wears are pretty heavy? =/ Meh whatever I guess...

EDIT: The weight stuff is just for gameplay... I mean in reality I think Squirtle is lighter than Ivysaur... and Zero Suit Samus and Sheik being lighter than Olimar is ridiculous... it's just how much they can take in a fight rather than how much they weigh... well at least that makes more sense...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I remember seeing though that her Fair had terrible damage unsweetspotted in the 5 minute movie. I'll guess that it's harder to sweetspot now, but way worth it when it lands. Her up aerial seems to be getting a nice buff. So far, it seems nearly all of her moves have been improved.

Most importantly though, Sheik's best killing move is her up smash (89%) and her second best is over 40% away from it. I'm thinking that Fair of hers has been destroyed and even more thought has been put into comboing with Sheik and KOing with Zelda. All we need now is a video of her transforming and we can probably speculate how effective switching will be this time.

If you compare Sheik's killing power in Melee to the same manner they did this for Brawl, the results would also be quite unimpressive compared to the rest of the cast, and Zelda. Sheik's moves were never about killing outright, but forcing her opponents to the edge where she edgeguards them to death. Or in the case of her foward air, knocking them off in such a way where successful recovery was impossible. Sheik may have more power under the hood than this information dictates, especially with its very specific testing scenario.

 

[HipsterKid]

Instead of nitpicking all the fine details of the 5 minute video I'll just say this: Zelda looks way impressive this time around, and I wouldn't doubt if she got a lot more spotlight now. I'm extremely pleased.

Well, luckily enough, I did that all last night.
Here is all the information that I've gathered from the video.
Feel free to double-check anything, seeing as it was late and I could've missed/wrongly marked something.
Enjoy!




Battleship Halberd
Zelda uses Side-Tilt on Yoshi and Metaknight and Yoshi goes from 56% to 64% while Metaknight goes from 34% to 48%, with some good vertical knockback.
Zelda used a Lightning kick on Zamus, that seemed to miss because Zamus went from 83% to 87%.

Castle Siege
Zelda uses up-smash on Pikachu and he goes from 24% to 39%.
Zelda uses Din's Fire on Pikachu and he goes from 39% to 49%.
Zelda uses Up-Air on Mario and he goes from 13% to 29%.
Zelda uses Forward Air on Statue and it instantly breaks (According to possible Famitsu scans, it may have been buffed)
Zelda uses Up-Tilt on Ike and he goes from 11% to 28%.
Zelda uses Din's Fire on Mario and he goes from 52% to 69%.
Zelda uses Dash attack on Mario and he goes from 6% to 19%.

Other things to note on:
Din's Fire seems noticeably faster.
Zelda second jump didn't seem to add any height.
It seemed a lot harder for Pikachu to DI out of Zelda's Up-Smash. It also seemed longer.
Zelda died to Ike's FS at 84%. Either she is still very lightweight or it really had some vertical knockback.
Zelda's Over-dramatic Star-KO scream is still in! :D

These are things that I think everyone should keep an eye out for. They aren't too noticeable and will require some rewinding. Can someone confirm or de-confirm some of these things that I might've wrongly seen?

Hope this helped out some of the optimism in the Zelda Boards. I told you Zelda was getting better ice cream this time around. And who cares about the icon? It's not like Sheik and Zelda aren't the same person anyway. You've seen the difference in Famitsu's Top 3 attacks.
Zelda is looking awesome.

 

[Drake3]

Nice sig drake

-spAzn- does fantastic work <3.

Oh god, I can't stop laughing at Zelda's heel getting buffed. Man, it was a killer before, and now we'll be unstoppable. I'm pretty impressed with these stats. I just did a few tests in Melee with Mario and the killing percentages have been decreased by alot (~20%). It's nice to see Zelda fighting like a heavyweight.

 

[Stiputation]

Oh heck YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
67 damage!? Pure ownage my dear Zelda family!

Its pretty weird though, along with most people I seriously couldn't imagine that move being buffed. I thought that the Brawl...err...people wanted to capitalize on utilizing all of her moves instead of just spamming that one to high heaven. Her aerial Uair should be pretty nice as well. Along with the other moves that we saw in the video. They all look so buffed! I'm totally lovin' that Din's Fire, and even moreso the new aerial animation.

From the looks of it, it seriously looks like they're trying to stress the whole Zelda/Sheik relationship this time. Ecspecially with Zelda's rediculously low KO percents. That still doesn't mean I'm going to use Sheik though. Actually, I won't. Not only do we get a hot design for Zelda, but awesome and more powerful moves as well! Oh heck yes my dear Zelda family! We shall overcome! =D

 

[Arean]

hey hipsterkid.. regarding your info.... you had one tidbit thats wrong... in the halberd stage. zelda did her neutral a on metaknight and yoshi, and it had more of a paralyzing effect.. just so you know :D
besides that.. great post!


Hehe stipulation... now you made me think if I should try zelda and sheik as one character... but with all of this buffs... im loving it :D

 

[Soluble Toast]

LOL@ F-air getting buffed.

Looks like those boots really do pack a bigger punch eh? ;]

boots FTW!

 

[Iris]

The up tilt and second Din's Fire weren't actually that strong. Both were combined with a thunderjolt from Pikachu. I like that she's deadly this time around, but I hope her best moves besides the three listed aren't far off from 104%. FSmash, USmash, and UTilt hopefully all still have nice knockback.

Also, the person who gave the damages said that the magazine made some mistakes. I'm hoping that Zelda's normal speed isn't one of them.

 

[HipsterKid]

hey hipsterkid.. regarding your info.... you had one tidbit thats wrong... in the halberd stage. zelda did her neutral a on metaknight and yoshi, and it had more of a paralyzing effect.. just so you know :D
besides that.. great post!

Actually, I saw that and I totally disregarded it. It didn't feel important to me but I know I should've listed it anyway. My apologies and thanks for the correction.

The up tilt and second Din's Fire weren't actually that strong. Both were combined with a thunderjolt from Pikachu.
Also, the person who gave the damages said that the magazine made some mistakes. I'm hoping that Zelda's normal speed isn't one of them.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I wasn't really paying much attention to everyone else at the moment so I didn't see that. It's a good thing that you caught that. I thought it was weird that one Din's Fire did about 10 and the other around 17. Thanks for the correction! Oh, and, let's cross our fingers on Zelda's speed being normal. :]

 

[Drake3]

Oh well. Would've been cool if it did more damage.

 

[Ztarfish]

What's a Wall Cling? And I like how she can't do crap, is lightweight, and doesn't have remarkable running skills.

Oh well, I do think it would be rather odd to see my beloved princess crawling.

Oh and for the person who asked, I think Zelda could KO mario at 80ish percent without a chance of recover. I tried comparing Zelda's and Sheik's Fair KO percents a while back, for those who are curious, Sheik was like 150ish without a chance of recover.

 

[Soluble Toast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=728BnDcgnx4

Footage of Zelda transforming into Sheik.

It looks unbearably slow D:

Also confirms that even though you finish the match with Sheik, the cutscenes still show Zelda. Hooray!

 

[Iris]

Wow, it's even slower. I guess they're going to be pretty independent again.

Also, hopefully we'll see some Zelda gameplay info since she's apparently in the demo.

 

[-spAzn-]

Man, transforming is incredibly slow I guess people who use both in a match are gonna have a hard time.

Though is it me or does it look like your invincible for that amount of time your transforming? It looked like one of the primids kept trying to hit her but she took no damage until after she was done. So maybe now it can't be interrupted.

 

[Iris]

That's a possibility, but being attacked while transforming wasn't really a problem. The problem was fitting transform into the flow of battle.

 

[Ztarfish]

I want to see footage of Sheik outside the SSE.
I'm not too terribly crushed transformation time is slow, though I am confused to why they made it longer?
What could have possessed them that made them think slowing down the switch between the two was a good idea?

 

[Stiputation]

Now its confirmed. I certainly won't be using Sheik -witch laughter-

Shes icky and ugly and looks like she crawled out of the dumpster. Ecspecially with the nasty little finger rubber band thingies. Not to mention she looks EXACTLY THE SAME!

 

[Soluble Toast]

Sakurai made a massive mistake.
The transformation time alone could split Zelda/ Sheik players in half once again.

It all looked promising that they could work as a team, but Sakurai actually managed to screw it up in the end. the lag of the transformation definitely is not worth using them both. 3 seconds is a massive amount of time in a match. The whole idea of the transformation was to switch when the battle suited. The battle could change within 3 seconds. That's like putting your foot on the brakeof a car and stopping 3-4 seconds later. Congratulations, you just slammed into a wall.

Looks like I'm back to using solely Zelda.

 

[Drake3]

Goooood God. Woman, put your make-up on, faster!! That was painful to watch, but I do agree with spAzn. There was something about the twitchy aura that strikes me as invincibility frames.

That's such a pity. I was actually going to try and use both in Brawl, but looking at the time it takes to go from one to the other, it's never gonna happen.

Edit: Realization. It actually looks like Zelda's not there. Whoever mentioned that the primids seemed to be attacking her was right. They were attacking her, but she wasn't taking any damage from it. She seems to have the same deal as PT.

Speaking of PT, ITP discovered the method of starting the match as a specific Pokemon instead of just Squirtle by selecting them on the character selection screen. I assume Zelda now shares her space with Sheik for this very reason.

 

[Stiputation]

Soluble Toast you're right.

I will say, that I am very sorry for those who had the intent of playing with both characters.
But I'm not sure though, they may have given the transformation invincibility frames. Its very hard to tell from the video if Sakurai did or not.

But the thing being, why in hell would Sakurai make the transformation that long in the first place? Believe me, I seriously don't give a good kitty, but it just doesn't make very much sense. I honestly thought he wanted to make Sheik and Zelda rely on each other. But even with invincibility frames who feels like waiting three centuries for the transformation to complete? Meh, oh well. I already knew I wouldn't be be transforming =P. But chu gotta think of those who really wanted to D=

 

[Stiputation]

Soluble Toast you're right.

I will say, that I am very sorry for those who had the intent of playing with both characters.
But I'm not sure though, they may have given the transformation invincibility frames. Its very hard to tell from the video if Sakurai did or not.

But the thing being, why in hell would Sakurai make the transformation that long in the first place? Believe me, I seriously don't give a good kitty, but it just doesn't make very much sense. I honestly thought he wanted to make Sheik and Zelda rely on each other. But even with invincibility frames who feels like waiting three centuries for the transformation to complete? Meh, oh well. I already knew I wouldn't be be transforming =P. But chu gotta think of those who really wanted to D=

 

[Luthien]

What were they THINKING?

"We want people to switch mid-battle, so we'll make the transformation time twice as long. That'll help."

I need to go vent my frustration out on a level nine Falco, seeing as how none of my friends are around. I'll be back after a few quick four-stockings.

 

[Airgemini]

Wow that was slow but at least the graphics are better.

 

[Ztarfish]

The slow transformation time not only hinders any possibility of them working as a team, but even using them for fun.

I use Sheik in Melee every once in a while to change things up and to make things funner for myself. Doesn't seem like this is possible in Brawl since the transformation time is THE LENGTH OF THE FRICKIN LotR TRILOGY.

<Down-B>"Oh hey, excuse me guys I'll be back after some refreshments, just keep going on without me. Oh don't worry, it's all good, I have INVINCIBILITY frames"

Wth.
On the bright side, perhaps this discourages Sheik users from switching to Zelda for a Farore's?

 

[Airgemini]

I'm sure there's a reason its slowed down...
When Japan gets the game we'll know.

 

[HipsterKid]

Yet, again, everyone is making assumptions when not one of use has even played as Zelda!
I know we all like to speculate and what not, but you guys continually are hoping for the worst.
It'll take more than one video to confirm that Transform will not work and, yet,
everyone is already "It's slow, I ain't using it".
I think we'd already have learned that one or two videos isn't enough to confirm something as good or not.

Besides, we are human.
We will eventually find a way to change things up and suit it for our preference.
Just everyone, please stop assuming right away.

 

[Ztarfish]

The transformation time is 3-4 seconds for Zelda/Sheik then it's about the same length as PT (though it looks longer). people have played as PT and they say that it's pretty frustrating to use.

Transformation in Melee was not my favorite thing to use ever, so why would I use it if it takes longer?
I don't think we're really assuming anything on this.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Zelda being invincible while Transforming was flat out negated by the fact that, immediately as Sheik appeared, she was pounded on. I really hope the Transform doesn't make it live as shown.

 

[Airgemini]

We can only help for the best...
But maybe he made it like that for a reason...Soon enough we'll know.

 

[Penguyen]

Wth.
On the bright side, perhaps this discourages Sheik users from switching to Zelda for a Farore's?

HAHAHAH PLAY ME OR DIE! Sounds interesting...

 

[Arean]

*eye twitch* ugh..... that was so abysmal... heck they shouldve had their own slots!!

 

[Drake3]

On the bright side, perhaps this discourages Sheik users from switching to Zelda for a Farore's?

Yes! I'm glad someone else pointed it out cause I was way too lazy. After watching the vid where PT's Pokemon died every single time he switched them due to Eldin's Bridge collapsing, I doubt it's going to be better to switch to Zelda when falling. Shorter FW + 3 seconds = Death.