Your Opinion on the Brawl Rule Set

[RT]

I would really like more feedback on my proposal.

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Your proposal is whack. LGL is needed, even without MK. Pit can scrooge btw, anyway, the point is, the ledge itself can be abused by other characters.

I'm sure you've seen Will vs. Richbrown at WHOBO 3. Also, Xyro himself took a game off Denti by planking a long while back. It's not just MK. The LGL is necessary period.

 

[RT]

Okay, raise the LGL to 50 for everyone, including MK. And still alloe planking and infinite Dimensional Cape.

Did you really just imply that Pit' scrooging is as good as MK's? Seriously...?

 

[Sinister Slush]

His arguments are pretty bad.

 

[Reizilla]

Two simple limitations to allow a character that's not that broken otherwise. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[RT]

No other fighting game does this, right? They just ban the character. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's silly that the community is putting rules on a MK just to keep him playable. I can't be the only one that thinks it is stupid.

Also, if he's not broken, why the limitations anyways? Let him plank, scrooge, and IDC. They aren't broken, right?

 

[Reizilla]

One is a universal problem which MK just takes advantage of best.

The other is a glitch. Plenty of games have certain glitches banned.

You obviously aren't reading very carefully. I said that those aside he wasn't very broken.

 

[Xyro77]

No other fighting game does this, right? They just ban the character. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's silly that the community is putting rules on a MK just to keep him playable. I can't be the only one that thinks it is stupid.

dude i agree with you but the answer is not letting mk roam freely. whether what you think its right or wrong, i guarantee you NO ONE will go to a hobo/national where everything mk has is LEGAL. you need to think about the community first.

 

[Xyro77]

TBH, this game is just really bad and there is no REAL way to make it fair/good.

 

[Reizilla]

I agree. Brawl was very unfortunate. If a regular fighter, like one of ones that RT loves comparing to, had these kinds of problems, it just wouldn't be played with any kind of seriousness. There's your answer.

 

[RT]

dude i agree with you but the answer is not letting mk roam freely. whether what you think its right or wrong, i guarantee you NO ONE will go to a hobo/national where everything mk has is LEGAL. you need to think about the community first.

See, that's the stupid thought process I want to question.

MK is considered not broken by people.

Okay, they why are planking, scrooging, and IDC banned? MK is the best at all of these.

But it was already proposed that MK isn't broken. So why isn't he allowed to do these things?

I say let him use these freely and see if he's broken. See if people will attend.

Remember, MK isn't broken...right?

 

[Reizilla]

RT, quit being stubborn. You know damn well that people are referring to MK without those techniques. That's the MK that's not broken. Ganondorf with IDC would be broken.

 

[Xyro77]

See, that's the stupid thought process I want to question.

MK is considered not broken by people.

Okay, they why are planking, scrooging, and IDC banned? MK is the best at all of these.

But it was already proposed that MK isn't broken. So why isn't he allowed to so these things?

I say let him use these freely and see if he's broken. See if people will attend.

Remember, MK isn't broken...right?

IDC/Scrooging/plainking...ect are banned because people with higher knowledge know what can happen if they are unbanned. The people who claim mk is NOT broken fit in the following...

1. They use mk(main/2ndary...ect).
2. They wanna stand up for a friend that uses mk.
3. They fear what would happen if mk is gone(more DDDs? Falcos? aka something worse for their char than mk)).
4. They are simply uneducated and think mk is not broken.
5. They dont wann be part of the minority for fear of being made fun of

THESE^ people are ignored when rules are made. You do not cater to these people. You also do not take the chance of running an event to see if THESE^ people are correct. ONE event done incorrectly can wreck you for life(as a TO).

 

[RT]

RT, quit being stubborn. You know damn well that people are referring to MK without those techniques. That's the MK that's not broken. Ganondorf with IDC would be broken.

So riddle me this...if you know MK is broken, then why not follow the examples Third Strike did with Gill or Akuma with SFT and just BAN HIM instead of making rules just to make him playable?

This is what I'm getting at.

I think this is the point some people are missing. Ban the character, not the techniques.

 

[Xyro77]

So riddle me this...

i see without seeing. darkness is as clear as daylight.

what am i?



edit: if u fail to produce the exact quote, you lose.

 

[Reizilla]

So riddle me this...if you know MK is broken, then why not follow the examples Third Strike did with Gill or Akuma with SFT and just BAN HIM instead of making rules just to make him playable?

This is what I'm getting at.

Limits on MK are easily enforced and more universal. They're not necessarily part of the character.

 

[Xyro77]

Limits on MK are easily enforced and more universal. They're not necessarily part of the character.

we as TOs/community should not have to keep restricting this character.

 

[RT]

Limits on MK are easily enforced and more universal. They're not necessarily part of the character.

They could've easily enforced no aerial fireballs with Akuma and no 100% instant stun combos with Gill.

Placing handicaps on a character to make them artificially look worse is dumb. You're just covering up a truth.

This is not a good reason.

 

[Reizilla]

You don't have to. Some people see the game playable with simple limitations that should probably be there for all characters anyway.

 

[Xyro77]

You don't have to. Some people see the game playable with simple limitations that should probably be there for all characters anyway.

but those rules are not NEEDED for any other char cept mk.

scrooging rule wasnt made cause charizard was flying under SV. it was made cause of mk

plainking cannot be done by any character cept mk.

lgl was added cause of mk because if u hang on the ledge and stall right(plainking) he cannot be touched by ANY character in the game. if done incorrectly, he cant be touched by 98% of the cast. it wasnt added cause shuckle decided to hug it out with the ledge.

IDC can only be done by mk.

 

[Reizilla]

They could've easily enforced no aerial fireballs with Akuma and no 100% instant stun combos with Gill.

Placing handicaps on a character to make them artificially look worse is dumb. You're just covering up a truth.

This is not a good reason.

Not really. That's like saying you can't use tornado, which isn't a glitch. They're completely different circumstances. Placing a limit on ledge grabs would be more like saying, you can only throw another character x amount of times in one game. Yeah, it's pretty stupid, but this is a stupid game.

With the limitations, the character is not artificially worse, the character is worse. This even holds true for stages. They make certain characters better.

 

[Xyro77]

Not really. That's like saying you can't use tornado, which isn't a glitch. They're completely different circumstances. Placing a limit on ledge grabs would be more like saying, you can only throw another character x amount of times in one game. Yeah, it's pretty stupid, but this is a stupid game.

With the limitations, the character is not artificially worse, the character is worse. This even holds true for stages. They make certain characters better.

Locate the nearest butcher knife and insert it into your eye.

 

[Reizilla]

This entire game is full of "artificial" buffs and nerfs, ie: number of stocks for some characters like ZSS and Lucario.

Xyro, I've considered that after reading your pathetic excuse for an argument.

 

[Xyro77]

This entire game is full of "artificial" buffs and nerfs, ie: number of stocks for some characters like ZSS and Lucario.

Xyro, I've considered that after reading your pathetic excuse for an argument.

im not arguing. im telling you how it is.


now go find that knife.

 

[RT]

This entire game is full of "artificial" buffs and nerfs, ie: number of stocks for some characters like ZSS and Lucario.

Xyro, I've considered that after reading your pathetic excuse for an argument.

Really? You're comparing game mechanics to rules the community decided to impose?

There is a huge difference.

 

[Espy Rose]

The ledge grab limit never has and never will be necessary.
People like Rei just want it justified so the bat can stay.

 

[Reizilla]

Really? You're comparing game mechanics to rules the community decided to impose?

There is a huge difference.

You're comparing a glitch to a moveset.



I wouldn't have a LGL if people wouldn't cry about it.

 

[DallasPhat]

We should play with HP and set the timer to 99 seconds and make it a best 2 out of 3, make maps with walls, try to make this a 2d fighter.

 

[Player-4]

I briefly skimmed over the last few comments.

Lemme just say this. Brawl =/= Street Fighter or any other fighting game.

It's not actually a competitive fighting game. It's a party game that has a competitive following. See tripping.

Secondly, MK is broken. Anyone who says otherwise is oblivious or stupid or both. But he is not the only broken character, he's just the most broken. See ICs infinites, Olimar (just Olimar, I don't need to say anything about him ), Snakes damage output, range, and weight, Diddy's bananas, Lucario's aura etc etc, you get the idea.

Third, Pit's scrooging is pretty gay ****. No it's not MK level simply because he doesn't have SL or other great recovery moves to threaten people challenging him when he scrooges but when it's done right it's nye uncatchable. See Marharba vs Illmatic on Lylat. Don't turn this part into how you need to CP characters and ****, I'm simply making the point that scrooging left unchecked isn't just an MK problem.

Finally, MK is not the only character that can plank, don't act ignorant. Planking is the act of grabbing the ledge over and over to refresh invincibility on the ledge, technically every character can do this. To the extent of it's effectiveness is a different issue.

TL;DR

My two main points are really this:

We are not the Street Fighter scene and this isn't the same type of game so why follow it's example?

MK is not auto win. At the end of the day every game comes down to the best character, that's just how fighting games (I know I said Brawl isn't a fighting game but if everyone wants to call it one and treat it as one I'm going to give you fighting game reasoning) work. Every fighting game as a central power and you either learn how to beat it or join it. Stop being lazy, MK isn't Ivan Ooze.

 

[Dojo]

You guys are ****ing sad. Like for real.

RT: You don't play or do anything. Let it go.
Rei: Just host your own MK legal tourneys and don't go to Xyro's.
Allan: You just got through telling me that you don't give a rat's *** about this game or the community. Why are you still arguing for it then? Either host the tourneys with mk banned that YOU want or stop.
Espy: Stfu. I have nothing more to say.

You guys are still arguing this SAME **** that's been said for 4 ****ing years, where you've all already expressed your ****ing views and tried to sway others. NOBODY has really changed their ****ing feelings. Host your own tourneys, don't attend the ones you don't like, and let it go.

 

[DallasPhat]

I'm telling you man, play with a life bar become a true 2d fighter.

 

[Reizilla]

I go to any tournaments I can. I just like telling people when they're being absurd.

 

[Xyro77]

It's not actually a competitive fighting game. It's a party game that has a competitive following. See tripping.

its a party game we(the community) "made" competitive.

Secondly, MK is broken. Anyone who says otherwise is oblivious or stupid or both. But he is not the only broken character, he's just the most broken. See ICs infinites, Olimar (just Olimar, I don't need to say anything about him ), Snakes damage output, range, and weight, Diddy's bananas, Lucario's aura etc etc, you get the idea.

Not true, everything you mentioned(cept mk) can be countered by stage/or character. Thus proving only mk is "broken."

See Marharba vs Illmatic on Lylat. Don't turn this part into how you need to CP characters and ****, I'm simply making the point that scrooging left unchecked isn't just an MK problem.

it IS only a MK problem. pit/charizard are the only ones who can scrooge with ease and BOTH can be stopped by CPing a diff character. Since mk cannot be CPed by another character, it proves its a MK only problem.

Finally, MK is not the only character that can plank, don't act ignorant. Planking is the act of grabbing the ledge over and over to refresh invincibility on the ledge, technically every character can do this. To the extent of it's effectiveness is a different issue.

Luckily for me i was around when "plainking" was an issue. Plainking is the act of becoming invincible/99% invincible while on the ledge, MK is the only one who can do this. and no one(not even mk) can stop it. Anything else is ledge stalling or ledge gay because it doesnt give near the invincibility that mk recieves AND it can be stopped by other characters.

TL;DR

My two main points are really this:

We are not the Street Fighter scene and this isn't the same type of game so why follow it's example?

i agree.

MK is not auto win. At the end of the day every game comes down to the best character, that's just how fighting games (I know I said Brawl isn't a fighting game but if everyone wants to call it one and treat it as one I'm going to give you fighting game reasoning) work.

dude yes

Every fighting game as a central power and you either learn how to beat it or join it. Stop being lazy, MK isn't Ivan Ooze.

This is the problem. You cant just "beat it" because at the end of the day mk ends up becoming more gay or w/e and the cycle restarts with mk STILL in the lead. From USA to Japan to the swamps of Jupiter, mk ends up winning after its all said and done. This means the only thing to do is accept "2nd best" or "join it." Joining it is not healthy for this game.


Had this been melee i would agree with you but this si brawl.

 

[Xyro77]

Allan: You just got through telling me that you don't give a rat's *** about this game or the community. Why are you still arguing for it then? Either host the tourneys with mk banned that YOU want or stop.

I have to care until whobo is done.

 

[RT]

RT: You don't play or do anything. Let it go.

This gives me a unique perspective on the situation. As someone that has played Brawl, I understand it. I've played Brawl since the game came out and up until December-ish of last year.

Now looking at it from an outside perspective as a non-participant, I can see a scene that is adding rules just to make a character playable, when the simplest thing to do is to just ban the character.

I see a community that KNOWS MK is broken if he's allowed to plank, scrooge, and IDC, yet they are okay with him if he has artificial limitations instead of allowing him to use his TRUE potential.

I see a scene that instead of accepting a united ruleset to help stabalize the metagame, they would rather bicker and be stubborn in making compromises.

Honestly, if you get someone that plays other competitive fighting games to look at the ruleset and explain the rules that were made specifically for MK, they'll either ask, "Why are there so many rules against MK? Is he broken or something?" or "If a character has so many rules made against him, why isn't he banned?"

If the community can't see this, can't understand this, then...well, I suppose there is not hope for Brawl's future.

And I'm sad to hear you say that, Dojo. You don't have to play to contribute. I do want the community to thrive and grow, but it can't do that if the players are refusing to recognize their own folly.

*EDIT*: Here is the ultimate question that troubles me the most...if planking, scrooging, IDC, etc. were all discovered at the same time, would MK have been banned? I guess we'll never know...

 

[Espy Rose]

Whatever Dojo.
I could care less about what you have to say. You haven't brought anything new to the table.

@RT: Not entirely sure how people would've reacted, but that's just the kind of thinking that doesn't really do much but excite people. Best to just keep those kind of theoretical scenarios out of the picture, for the most part. That isn't to say that I don't understand what you're saying, though.

Just gotta make do with what we have in front of us.

 

[Malice Chains]

Lol at the salt in this thread

 

[Nike.]

At first I was gonna say something.

Nevermind.

 

[Espy Rose]

I laugh harder when I imagine Nike doing the exact movements.

 

[Sync.]

Everyone should just stop arguing. No one is convincing anyone. I hate this MK debate ****.