Your Opinion on the Brawl Rule Set

[Mew2King]

Xyro, how the **** could a MK main be placing the same without the character they put almost all their time into? Ban Snake see how well Razer does, ban Diddy see how well Gnes/ADHD do, ban Lucario see how well Trela does. You can't just take away a person's best character, and say "lower results = SEE?! THE CHARACTER MUST HAVE BEEN BROKEN", when it's by far their best character. That's why I hate arguments like this, because that will always happen 100% of the time for that reason alone.

bbl for like 10 hours lol

 

[Xyro77]

Xyro, how the **** could a MK main be placing the same without the character they put almost all their time into? Ban Snake see how well Razer does, ban Diddy see how well Gnes/ADHD do, ban Lucario see how well Trela does. You can't just take away a person's best character, and say "lower results = SEE?! THE CHARACTER MUST HAVE BEEN BROKEN", when it's by far their best character. That's why I hate arguments like this, because that will always happen 100% of the time for that reason alone.

bbl for like 10 hours lol

i dont do that^

i wait and see their results over time. i know they will auto do bad at first

 

[Dojo]

Allan you realize you did that exact thing at Hobo 16 and 17. In the span of a month, I was expected to still get first? I get top 4 both times beating amazing players with their mains and you were still using my placement as an excuse.

2nd, you misread what I said. I would still be placing top 4-5. Which is what I would probably place with MK seeing as how Gnes, Razer, and Trela all beat me (or have been beating me) either way.

 

[Denti]

I almost wish Xyro lost the ability to post arguments.

Pretty much what M2K said about MK mains. It's going to take longer than 4 months to become where they use to be. But the fact that MK mains are placing the same or better without him states something. And yea I left out that part but I didn't think it was important because Infinity has never taken a set from Illmatic with MK, still supporting my claim.

And I agree with you to an extent about attendants, overtime that's the main reason the community has fallen but the MK ban has done its fair share of damage and that's a fact. I've seen the damage, but maybe you haven't because you are barely involved in this region (the entire southwest) IRL like I am. It's not good to hurt/split this small community with petty things like the MK ban.

And you can't say that because one Hobo a long time ago got more results because of MK ban so it must be right. You would have to consider back then MK banned tournaments didn't happen, so when one did all the pro ban players showed. A logical equation to give you here would be Minus (-) Most MK mains (not all mind you), Plus (+) practically every pro ban player who would drive (which at the time there were lots of people thirsty to try out a MK banned tournament for once), and everyone else just stayed the same. Just as you stated to me, explain the whole thing other than arguments that fit your agenda.

 

[Xyro77]

Allan you realize you did that exact thing at Hobo 16 and 17. In the span of a month, I was expected to still get first? I get top 4 both times beating amazing players with their mains and you were still using my placement as an excuse.

2nd, you misread what I said. I would still be placing top 4-5. Which is what I would probably place with MK seeing as how Gnes, Razer, and Trela all beat me (or have been beating me) either way.

you came from 2nd at whobo 1(mk legal) to 4th at hobo 16 and then 3rd at hobo 17(both mk banned) then back to first at hobo 19(mk legal).

so what are you saying?

 

[Xyro77]

Pretty much what M2K said about MK mains. It's going to take longer than 4 months to become where they use to be.

ummmm. i know this.

But the fact that MK mains are placing the same or better without him states something.

look at the OVERALL, not just tx/sw or whatever. you are just simply wrong.

And yea I left out that part but I didn't think it was important because Infinity has never taken a set from Illmatic with MK, still supporting my claim.

wait what?

And I agree with you to an extent about attendants, overtime that's the main reason the community has fallen but the MK ban has done its fair share of damage and that's a fact.

i already said this.


I

've seen the damage, but maybe you haven't because you are barely involved in this region (the entire southwest) IRL like I am. It's not good to hurt/split this small community with petty things like the MK ban.

ive ran more events in all 3 smash games than you.
ive attended more events than you
i was apart of URC/BBR who kept track of the stuff im talking about.
ive been playing smash longer than you.

just cause i dont run hobos as much doesnt mean ive lost anything. i still read results and stuff. and like ive said 2 times now, i agree the 2nd ban i inacted was badly timed.

And you can't say that because one Hobo a long time ago got more results because of MK ban so it must be right.

I never said that me getting more attendance due to mk ban would be permanent.

You would have to consider back then MK banned tournaments didn't happen

,
ummmm, they were happening. again, another sign you dont know wtf was going on.

so when one did all the pro ban players showed, so a logical equation to give you here would be Minus (-) Most MK mains, Plus (+) every pro ban player who would drive, and everyone else just stayed the same.

logical equation? what? x^2-4? 1+1=92?

Just as you stated to me, explain the whole thing other than arguments that fit your agenda.

ummmmm, i did

 

[NeoBatou]

About attendance, I don't think there's nothing we can do about that honestly.

You either show up or don't show up.

Mk banned or not, there's going to be competition, and it sometimes scares others anyways if the tournament is "stacked".

It only get's worse if you don't improve to beat them, and even if you do, they'll be back for round 2, 3 and so on. So anyone who's tired of seeing the top 5 at HOBO the way it is, deal with it and go do something about it.

 

[Xyro77]

It only get's worse if you don't improve to beat them, and even if you do, they'll be back for round 2, 3 and so on. So anyone who's tired of seeing the top 5 at HOBO the way it is, deal with it and go do something about it.

thats the problem with this state and the game.

too many good players in this state use bad characters.

jerm/espy/illmatic to name a few are great players but have always and will always lose to people like gnes/razer/trela. not cause they cant get better but because this is BRAWL. **** chars are **** chars for life and have very short skill ceilings. until they pick a better char(and why should they? this game isnt fun for them anymore) they wont beat these guys and thus results wont change




this is ANOTHER reason why this scene is dying.

 

[theeboredone]

Hope this doesnt sound like Im being picky and choosy, but very interesting points. I think this applies to a lot of regions outside Texas too, both as examples (PNW is turning into a ghost town) and counter-examples (socals tournaments have been consistently hitting over 50 this year after some adjustments compared to essentially none last year). I agree that these are big reasons why the brawl scene wears thin, and there needs to be some form of reality check/active effort to counter-act these issues. IMO most ruleset debates/'disagreements are red-herrings for the real issues that plague the community, such as the ones quoted.

What adjustments would those be? I feel like if we can do anything to boost attendance in Texas, word from outside always helps. Unless you're talking about advertising outside of SWF/AiB.

Food for thought on the MK topic, let's just assume for a moment that people who mained MK do place the same as they do now without MK. From my personal experience, and how I see others play...it seems like they stand more of a "chance" vs non-MK players in winning. They may still get 2-0'd, but it won't be as much of a sweep or anything that may discourage players. Yeah, I'm not talking about the upper class of players in TX as much as the middle to low end. You know, the kind that may reconsider attending future tournaments if they got their butt whooped by X character. MK is not a easy handle if you don't practice every avenue of option to pretty much the last frame.

 

[NeoBatou]

thats the problem with this state and the game.

too many good players in this state use bad characters.

jerm/espy/illmatic to name a few are great players but have always and will always lose to people like gnes/razer/trela. not cause they cant get better but because this is BRAWL. **** chars are **** chars for life and have very short skill ceilings. until they pick a better char(and why should they? this game isnt fun for them anymore) they wont beat these guys and thus results wont change




this is ANOTHER reason why this scene is dying.

You know me Xyro, I still kinda play a **** character, haha....I guess maybe my motivation has kept me in the game for so long. I don't take losing so bad anymore, the experience is worth the trip to HOBO for me Xyro, I mean it's not everyday I get to hang out with the Houston crew.

I do miss the days when I used to see Jerm/Espy/Illmatic and the rest of the "misfits" really give people a run for their money with mid/low tier characters. It was pretty exciting back then. I remember cheering for you too bro lol it's certainly not everyday to see Samus give people a run for the top spot too.

I can agree with you that it's probably making HOBO attendance smaller when people realize that they are gonna lose to the top dogs unless your a great , well known OoC player....and when you add those people into the mix, it might be even worse.

 

[Xyro77]

Though it seems like i am blaming trela/razer/gene, im not. They are simply playing a game they like for fun/money/competition...ect. None of which is bad.

 

[NeoBatou]

Well we know your not, but it's a fine point nonetheless.

 

[Denti]

ummmm. i know this.




look at the OVERALL, not just tx/sw or whatever. you are just simply wrong.

If you know this why are you arguing like this stuff has already happened? Must be a time traveler.

wait what?

You heard me, Infinity's MK has never beaten Illmatic's peach in a set but his Wario has.

ive ran more events in all 3 smash games than you.

ive attended more events than you

i was apart of URC/BBR who kept track of the stuff im talking about.

ive been playing smash longer than you.

Well since you've been around longer as a TO than me of course you've held more events.

NOW THIS I HAVE TO CHALLENGE!!! I PROBABLY HAVE ATTENDED MORE TOURNAMENTS THAN YOU!! I've been attending tournaments EVERY weekend for a little under 3 years now. Sometimes I attend tournaments twice a week. Don't underestimate how much I'm involved in this community.

And that's cool that you've been involved in that stuff but you can't say that it makes you right. That's like saying that everyone elected into government knows what they're talking about.

Don't pull the "you're a new gen" logic on me. That fact that you've been in this scene for like idk.. 6-7 years isn't THAT different from my 3.

I never said that me getting more attendance due to mk ban would be permanent.

What are you saying then?

ummmm, they were happening. again, another sign you dont know wtf was going on.

No where near the magnitude that they are now. It would have been hype back then for the a Hobo to have an MK banned event, since it use to be like such a massive series.

ummmmm, i did

No you didn't. As stated right above ^^

 

[Cassio]

People are being a bit hard on xyro. He agreed with the important point of the OP, grant him his other views.

 

[Denti]

People are being a bit hard on xyro. He agreed with the important point of the OP, grant him his other views.

I don't mean to be too hard on him, he's a really really cool/fun guy. But I'm just pointing out certain things in his argument as he has done to mine. And honestly idk what things he's agreed with. He agreed with nothing besides banning double MK and a 50 LGL.

 

[Xyro77]

If you know this why are you arguing like this stuff has already happened? Must be a time traveler.

i seriously dont know whats going on with this^ so im just gonna agree that im a time traveler

You heard me, Infinity's MK has never beaten Illmatic's peach in a set but his Wario has.

then lost with wario on GFs. Your point?






Wel

l since you've been around longer as a TO than me of course you've held more events.

NOW THIS I HAVE TO CHALLENGE!!! I PROBABLY HAVE ATTENDED MORE TOURNAMENTS THAN YOU!! I've been attending tournaments EVERY weekend for a little under 3 years now. Sometimes I attend tournaments twice a week.

Do you know how many events ive been to from 1999-2008? LOL, im 99.9 sure its more than you have.

Don't underestimate how much I'm involved in this community.

you run events. you are def involved. more so than most people in this state.

And that's cool that you've been involved in that stuff but you can't say that it makes you right.

but i am tho. ive never been wrong in my life.

That's like saying that everyone elected into government knows what they're talking about.

up until im president, you are correct.

Don't pull the "you're a new gen" logic on me. That fact that you've been in this scene for like idk.. 6-7 years isn't THAT different from my 3.

1999-2012 is 72 years. it is VERY different from your 3.

No where near the magnitude that they are now. It would have been hype back then for the a Hobo to have an MK banned event, since it use to be like such a massive series.

THIS^ is what you needed to say originally. Dont make blanket statements. Lots of the things you say are true had you not made them into blanket statements.

 

[Cassio]

From what I read hes laid back on the second ban and agreed its had some of the repercussions you mentioned. More importantly imo I believe hes right that the two points he highlighted earlier contribute significantly more to dwindling attendance than whether or not MK is legal

 

[Xyro77]

People are being a bit hard on xyro. He agreed with the important point of the OP, grant him his other views.

Thanks buddy but im used to it. its hard being a TO savant. its hard being the smartest lesbian to walk this earth.

Ive just had to get used to using the **** gun and carry on with my day

From what I read hes laid back on the second ban and agreed its had some of the repercussions you mentioned. More importantly imo I believe hes right that the two points he highlighted earlier contribute significantly more to dwindling attendance than whether or not MK is legal

BINGO

 

[Denti]

Damn you've been here for some time Xyro. I totally didn't think you were here before Gamecube lol (*thinks about what I was doing in 1999* *realizes I was in 3rd grade*). Ight well I guess I understand a few of your points now that Cassio's post kinda helped me realize it. Maybe banning MK near the beginning when the scene was large was healthier for the community, but now after he's stuck around and the scene is smaller I doubt it is.

Even though I still will argue for certain issues I'm pretty sure that won't get us anywhere.

 

[NeoBatou]

Whoa buddy.

Is the **** gun neces.....wait nevermind it's ALWAYS necessary.

On a more serious note, there will always be issues that we'll never agree upon.
I think it's safe to agree to disagree on certain points.

 

[Dojo]

Lmfao at 1999. Gtfo.

 

[Xyro77]

Lmfao at 1999. Gtfo.

SSB on the 64. Held a FEW events. you were still attached to yo moms nips during that time. so suck it(no pun intended), new gen.

and yea denti, while u were learning to tie yo shoes in 3rd grade, i was the CEO of burger king. GET ON MY LEVEL.


but yea, the 2nd ban was a bad idea and ill prob undo it here in houston but i gotta think about it first. im not sure i wanna see batman again or not

 

[Denti]

SSB on the 64. Held a FEW events. you were still attached to yo moms nips during that time. so suck it(no pun intended), new gen.

and yea denti, while u were learning to tie yo shoes in 3rd grade, i was the CEO of burger king. GET ON MY LEVEL.


but yea, the 2nd ban was a bad idea and ill prob undo it here in houston but i gotta think about it first. im not sure i wanna see batman again or not

*thinks about my shoes that light up when I walked in 3rd grade*


























































Velcro

,Ggs

 

[Xyro77]

*thinks about my shoes in 3rd grade*



Velcro

,Ggs

wow so u couldnt even tie your velcro? you were farther behind than i thought.

 

[Denti]

wow so u couldnt even tie your velcro? you were farther behind than i thought.

I haven't bought shoes I've had to tier... ever. Already tied when purchased, good till they wear down and rip. Some people would say that my shoe tying skills make me a tier *****, but I just say GGS

 

[Xyro77]

I haven't bought shoes I've had to tier... ever. Tie once, good till they wear and rip. Some people would call me a tier *****, but I just say GGS

Spoiler

lets get back to arguing

 

[Denti]

Spoiler

lets get back to arguing

**** Brinstar and Rainbow, why do we keep it? I'd at least hear an argument keeping one, since people could use their one ban on it.

 

[Xyro77]

**** Brinstar and Rainbow, why do we keep it? I'd at least hear an argument keeping one, since people could use their one ban on it.

Ask anybody who wants to be TRULY honest and they will say that RC/Brinstar needs to go because mk is near broken on that level. Take mk away and the the stages become very do-able. The same CONCEPT is why Onett was banned(DDD) or why Luigi's Mansion(mk) is banned . It makes certain characters broken/near broken.

Also, the more CP stages you take away, the more it caters to top tiers. The more stages you take away the less variety you will see in stage selection. This makes this already boring game MORE boring.

 

[NeoBatou]

Ask anybody who wants to be TRULY honest and they will say that RC/Brinstar need to go because mk is near broken on that level. Take mk away and the the stages become very do-able. The same CONCEPT is why Onett was banned(DDD) or why Luigi's Mansion(mk) is banned . It makes certain characters broken/near broken.

Onett had it coming LOL seriously....

 

[Denti]

Ask anybody who wants to be TRULY honest and they will say that RC/Brinstar needs to go because mk is near broken on that level. Take mk away and the the stages become very do-able. The same CONCEPT is why Onett was banned(DDD) or why Luigi's Mansion(mk) is banned . It makes certain characters broken/near broken.

Also, the more CP stages you take away, the more it caters to top tiers. The more stages you take away the less variety you will see in stage selection. This makes this already boring game MORE boring.

I can kinda see where you are going with this. If MK is allowed the stages must go.

I still think that the stages should be counter / ban though, so it's the TO's discretion to allow either of them. But I think MK should not be allowed to take people here as M2K said. That'd solve a lot of problems.

 

[Xyro77]

I can kinda see where you are going with this. If MK is allowed the stages must go.

I still think that the stages should be counter / ban though, so it's the TO's discretion to allow either of them. But I think MK should not be allowed to take people here as M2K said. That'd solve a lot of problems.

This all leads back to mk. Why must we continue to alter our rulesets because of HIM. Scrooging rule was not made cause of CHARIZARD gliding under stages. LGL was not created because of ganon wanting to suck face with the ledge. Plainking wasnt created by pichu.

ALL of these were created because of what MK can do if played "gay" enough.

When i was in the BBR i saw over 7 threads concerning how to limit mk. They were going as far as thinking about how they can go about restricting how many times mk can use TORNADO in a match. LOL if you have to get THAT ********, get rid of mk.

 

[Denti]

This all leads back to mk. Why must we continue to alter our rulesets because of HIM. Scrooging rule was not made cause of CHARIZARD gliding under stages. LGL was not created because of ganon wanting to suck face with the ledge. Plainking wasnt created by pichu.

ALL of these were created because of what MK can do if played "gay" enough.

I don't see the problem if MK isn't allowed to take people there. Anyone can take an MK there, but nobody should be able to counter pick somebody as MK there.

 

[RT]

Don't forget IDC.

They really need to just let MK do as much planking/scrooging/IDC as people want. Maybe people will finally wake up and see just how ******** MK can be without restrictions.

 

[Xyro77]

Don't forget IDC.

They really need to just let MK do as much planking/scrooging/IDC as people want. Maybe people will finally wake up and see just how ******** MK can be without restrictions.

We shouldnt have to get to this point.

I don't see the problem if MK isn't allowed to take people there. Anyone can take an MK there, but nobody should be able to counter pick somebody as MK there.

How many times must we edit this game in order to KEEP mk? There were 3-4 rules created because of mk. This isnt counting the stages ALREADY banned because of him. How many more rules do we have to make/how many stages do we have to ban before mk is "do-able."

The line needs to be drawn.

 

[Gnes]

Xyro, how the **** could a MK main be placing the same without the character they put almost all their time into? Ban Snake see how well Razer does, ban Diddy see how well Gnes/ADHD do, ban Lucario see how well Trela does. You can't just take away a person's best character, and say "lower results = SEE?! THE CHARACTER MUST HAVE BEEN BROKEN", when it's by far their best character. That's why I hate arguments like this, because that will always happen 100% of the time for that reason alone.

bbl for like 10 hours lol

I'll quit diddy and you quit mk. Lets see who places better.

U down? I'm down.

 

[Denti]

We shouldnt have to get to this point.



How many times must we edit this game in order to KEEP mk? There were 3-4 rules created because of mk. This isnt counting the stages ALREADY banned because of him. How many more rules do we have to make/how many stages do we have to ban before mk is "do-able."

The line needs to be drawn.

Honestly I think people would draw the line at RC and Brinstar for MK. MK really doesn't need to go there. Also other character can be broken on these stages too. It's just easier to go MK and abuse the stages there instead of going... Wario or GaW or other janky characters.

 

[Xyro77]

I'll quit diddy and you quit mk. Lets see who places better.

U down? I'm down.

 

[Dojo]

Keith, I'll take that challenge.

 

[Xyro77]

Honestly I think people would draw the line at RC and Brinstar for MK.

Do you how many times this type of thing was said?

"We can stop at adding a LGL. That should be enough"

BOOM, SCROOGING APPEARS.

"Lets get rid of scrooging and THAT plus LGL should be enough"

BOOM, TIMEOUTS ARE ON THE RISE

and since u cant stop timeouts "lets get rid of Brinstar/RC. THAT plus LGL plus scrooging should DEFINITELY be enough"

LOL see my point? it will never end because if you are willing to go THAT far, its not that much farther til get rid of delfino/halberd/ps2. Soon you will have pretty much 3-5 LEGAL stages and then look at what this game will be. COMPLETE AND UTTER BORING TRASH.

MK really doesn't need to go there. Also other character can be broken on these stages too. It's just easier to go MK and abuse the stages there instead of going... Wario or GaW or other janky characters.

This is 100%^ new gen right here. The whole point of competitive smash is COUNTER PICKING. Mk cannot be counter picked. He has ZERO bad MUs and ZERO bad stages. ANY OTHER character can be counter picked by char or by stage. This inculdes GW on RC or ICs on FD or wario on brinstar.....ect



it all comes back to mk.

 

[Labernash]

Keep RC and Brinstar. Delfino is a starter. <3

The thing about the MK ban is that there is that balance of people playing different characters, not 80% MK users. But it's whatevs.

Timer set to 10 just means I have two more minutes to aggrevate my opponent. Cool with me.

DOUBLE WARIO > DOUBLE MK