Col. Stauffenberg
Smash Lord
Saaaam, you should come down to SD this weekend and chill. We miss you.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
you ungrateful *******s, post here: Lucario General Chat v2
- Thread starter Timbers
- Start date
- Status
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
actually I was talking about Lucario vs. Marth, but w/e.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I'm afraid of what would happen if we let Bear know the Falco boards are rediscussing the lucario MU...
And they say they have the advantage.
And they say they have the advantage.
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
That would be scary.
Bear would be like
and all the Falco board memebers would be like
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
actually it's not that much of a stretch to say that Falco has a 40-60 (I say 45-55 but w/e) MU with Lucario. if it was lower then I'd have to call them "lol *******", but it sounds some what right. However, I will ****ing maul them if they think a regular Dthrow > Dthrow CG works on Lucario. Chain spiking or get the **** out, son.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
iirc, there's no such thing as "chain spiking" if you DI correctly.
I'm surprised, I frankly think it's pretty even to maybe a little on lucario's edge, aside from lasers, all of falco's combat game, killing, and recovery flaws get pulled out from lucario, but the only problem is that lucario himself has mediocre tools in taking advantage, falco generally doesn't do so well against characters with aerials that zone (hence why marth = really good), the only problem is that lucario doesn't have those tools, so it ends up being a pretty close fight.
I'm surprised, I frankly think it's pretty even to maybe a little on lucario's edge, aside from lasers, all of falco's combat game, killing, and recovery flaws get pulled out from lucario, but the only problem is that lucario himself has mediocre tools in taking advantage, falco generally doesn't do so well against characters with aerials that zone (hence why marth = really good), the only problem is that lucario doesn't have those tools, so it ends up being a pretty close fight.
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
well if you can DI out of Chain Spiking, this is news to me. Call me a nub but w/e lol. CSing is never usually a problem for me anyway.
But I've never played any good Falcos, so I wouldn't call myself knowledgeable of this matchup at all.
But I've never played any good Falcos, so I wouldn't call myself knowledgeable of this matchup at all.
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Well, I've been reading all the stuff about the MK ban and I must say.
This is ****ing hilarious.
This is ****ing hilarious.
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
The debate is hilarious although I feel a lot of players may be lost no matter what the results, although it could be a good chance to get Mew2king to switch to Lucario.
Edit: Off-topic(lolwut?): Is this avatar cute enough?
Edit: Off-topic(lolwut?): Is this avatar cute enough?
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Luxor
Smash Champion
Man, you poor Lukes really do need PR... bad. Someone should do something random like making "ban lucario" polls next to the mk ones or recruiting m2k. I'm half serious.
it'll be interesting to see how the probable mk ban will affect luke and the metagame tho
it'll be interesting to see how the probable mk ban will affect luke and the metagame tho
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
get out. Just get out.
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Don't scare him away Bear. Let him loosen up a bit on the Lucario boards.
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
but he posted such a stupid idea, even as a joke. It's just on an autistic level of creation.
The_Bear735
Smash Journeyman
Lucario doesn't really go even with MK imo. It's only 45-55 if the MK is aerially ********. Most MKs can **** Lucario with Dair camping.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
Banning MK will be removing the final barrier that will unleash Snakes olimars marths and D3 in their hundreds. we'll get swamped.
on the other hand, It will also bring out more pika's and IC'ees which will probably lessen the load.
on the other hand, It will also bring out more pika's and IC'ees which will probably lessen the load.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
imo it's very stage dependent vs. MK.
M2K says that his experiences vs. ksizzle make him believe that we ratio-wise have an advantage on places like FD and Yoshi's, which kind of debunks the "MK can't be CPd by stages" thing.
Overall, I'd have to say it's like 60:40-55:45 on other neutrals, I think we really need to bring YI and Lylat back as neutrals in more areas, they really limit MK more if you have characters that do well there.
M2K says that his experiences vs. ksizzle make him believe that we ratio-wise have an advantage on places like FD and Yoshi's, which kind of debunks the "MK can't be CPd by stages" thing.
Overall, I'd have to say it's like 60:40-55:45 on other neutrals, I think we really need to bring YI and Lylat back as neutrals in more areas, they really limit MK more if you have characters that do well there.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
AlexoftheAura
yaylatias.gif
Thank you
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
See ya later guys! I'm off to Oregon! *Extreme Speed!*
Back in a week. Yup. =3
Back in a week. Yup. =3
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Wait, you're going to OR?
That's where me and CLU7CH are!
Where are you staying?
That's where me and CLU7CH are!
Where are you staying?
Timbers
check me out
who would go to OR :v
also yeah, making yoshis or lylat neutrals again would only hurt Lucario lol. Lucario vs. like anyone on Lylat is so dumb. Yoshi's seems to cushion the blow though, I like that stage. It's just a stage you need to learn to play on, which is why I think it was thrown into CP to begin with, which is stupid.
also yeah, making yoshis or lylat neutrals again would only hurt Lucario lol. Lucario vs. like anyone on Lylat is so dumb. Yoshi's seems to cushion the blow though, I like that stage. It's just a stage you need to learn to play on, which is why I think it was thrown into CP to begin with, which is stupid.
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
Yoshi's is probably my favorite stage. A couple of MK players that I've CP'd it on have told me they hate the stage because it really throws off their funk, ifyaknowwhadimean.
Also, apparently we haven't left yet. Typical of my family
. We're leaving tomorrow at like 6 AM (or so they say, but I doubt it).
Also, apparently we haven't left yet. Typical of my family
. We're leaving tomorrow at like 6 AM (or so they say, but I doubt it).
Mewtario
Smash Ace
Haven't been here in ages!
So...
SURPRISE!
So...
SURPRISE!
D. Disciple
Smash Master
Heeeeeyyyyyyy....Who are you?
Mewtario
Smash Ace
A former member of this character board that hasn't been on this board in 6 months who is notorious for a half year old obsession that is now more or less over.
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
YI is win for lucario.
uh er... welcome back?
uh er... welcome back?
LordoftheMorning
Smash Champion
Okay....
NOW I'm leaving for Oregon. XD
NOW I'm leaving for Oregon. XD
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
I didn't know that people was talkling about the debate here. I have been on the debate for about 15 hours in general lmao. I am following it like crazy. Of course I am pro-ban, And of course I would explain why also.
If you pay close attention when you play D3, about 65-70% of his game is people running into his zone.
It never even crossed my mind until he said that. He is right, D3 revolves people running into his moves. Take his moveset, think about each one of his moves, and then ask yourself this: What is D3's best approaches?
You will soon come down to this:
Shielding, Grabbing and someone might say Bair
We can not say that us as a whole community can not avoid a grab. We have to do it for other matchups to stay alive lol. Even with his amazing range on a grab, you can still tell when he is going to throw it, and avoid it. Camping D3 with majority of characters makes his life a hard one, and it gets worse when people have a projectile to do it with.
As for snake, while not making this into a whole new MU guide, I still believe it is a 50:50 matchup, and people just need to learn how to play it. He is by far one of our easier matchups on our negitive side, even if we might feel that we lose it.
Now for Marth, its a whole new story, and although I know this matchup quite well since it is the one character i play against on a daily basis, He beats Lucario without anyone disagreeing with it. Like i said earlier, I have disregarded MU numbers in most cases, because even with bad matchups, character weaknesses can still be exploited more in other matchups, then in MK's matchup.
on the other hand, It will also bring out more pika's and IC'ees which will probably lessen the load.
Example: Diddy vs MK
Diddy would want Fd as his first pick, due to the fact he has a large and better chance of beating him. Arguably one of his best stages to play an MK on.
MK strike's FD. Diddy loses all of advantages on neutrals. Battle field is not that good for Diddy. Lylat and Yoshi's fall into the same boat. Next best pick would be Smashville, but that is actually one of MK's best stages.
A good decent post on proof would be here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7669433&postcount=626
Now lets talk about C/Ping Mk on a stage. Can you name 2 stages that MK can not fight on against a character? Because of that he can simply ban and it locks off the limits of what can happen.
In most cases, MK will have a C/P stage that is Character dependent, but also in these cases he only has one stage that can screw him over. That is where the ban comes in, and you can simply ban the stage from being used.
Of course, other characters float in the same boat when it comes to this situation, but other characters can be C/P'd by character, still giving them a slight advantage if they wanted it. MK however, still goes even to positive on every character in game. That Plus the fact that he can eliminate most of his bad stages in most cases, makes it a double threat. Most characters, infact, all other characters, don't have the luxury of both blessings.
_____________________________
All you have to do is apply that theory to a Lucario state of view, and ask yourself what stages can you really C/P against MK.
Cheers ^_^
I didn't read the posts that might have said that Lucario goes even with MK, but I will have to agree with you that he does not go even. I will also have to say it is not a 55:45 match, and it is a tad steeper in the bellows of the 60:40 numbers. Recently, I have been ignoring the MU numbers, just for the self conflict of if you think about it a bit, it can cripple your game while playing, even if you might not be aware of it. Having a thought that, you might lose the matchup because it was deemed a number that was not pleasant, will always enable a thought that you are at a disadvantage. For this though, we are just using MU numbers just for statistics and to prove simple facts, so no worries of course =]
As sad to say, this is somewhat true. It will rise in more Marths, D3's and Oli's, but this is one of the reasons why I am doing it. Living on the EC, i get so tired of seeing the same ****, and with him gone, people will grow some variety in their picks. The d3 MU to me now** is not has hard as people deemed it to be at first, with my own self opinion included. Adomsk once said that D3 is very limited on options, which he is, and people lose the matchup not just because it might be bad for them, but they haven't exploited D3's weaknesses in approaching properly. That goes for against most characters too. i was talking to EaZy last night about him also, and he pointed out this:
If you pay close attention when you play D3, about 65-70% of his game is people running into his zone.
It never even crossed my mind until he said that. He is right, D3 revolves people running into his moves. Take his moveset, think about each one of his moves, and then ask yourself this: What is D3's best approaches?
You will soon come down to this:
Shielding, Grabbing and someone might say Bair
We can not say that us as a whole community can not avoid a grab. We have to do it for other matchups to stay alive lol. Even with his amazing range on a grab, you can still tell when he is going to throw it, and avoid it. Camping D3 with majority of characters makes his life a hard one, and it gets worse when people have a projectile to do it with.
As for snake, while not making this into a whole new MU guide, I still believe it is a 50:50 matchup, and people just need to learn how to play it. He is by far one of our easier matchups on our negitive side, even if we might feel that we lose it.
Now for Marth, its a whole new story, and although I know this matchup quite well since it is the one character i play against on a daily basis, He beats Lucario without anyone disagreeing with it. Like i said earlier, I have disregarded MU numbers in most cases, because even with bad matchups, character weaknesses can still be exploited more in other matchups, then in MK's matchup.
on the other hand, It will also bring out more pika's and IC'ees which will probably lessen the load.
I had a long say in this last night, So I will just Quote what i said in the thread:
I did have a talk with one of my friends about this earlier infact. MK does have bad stages, but it is character dependent. Diddy on FD would be a fast and easy example. The thing about C/P is that there is infact a chance to ban a stage, and to also strike one. MK does have a good advantage on most neutrals, and the one's he can lose to because of it being character dependent can simply be striked.
Example: Diddy vs MK
Diddy would want Fd as his first pick, due to the fact he has a large and better chance of beating him. Arguably one of his best stages to play an MK on.
MK strike's FD. Diddy loses all of advantages on neutrals. Battle field is not that good for Diddy. Lylat and Yoshi's fall into the same boat. Next best pick would be Smashville, but that is actually one of MK's best stages.
A good decent post on proof would be here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7669433&postcount=626
Now lets talk about C/Ping Mk on a stage. Can you name 2 stages that MK can not fight on against a character? Because of that he can simply ban and it locks off the limits of what can happen.
In most cases, MK will have a C/P stage that is Character dependent, but also in these cases he only has one stage that can screw him over. That is where the ban comes in, and you can simply ban the stage from being used.
Of course, other characters float in the same boat when it comes to this situation, but other characters can be C/P'd by character, still giving them a slight advantage if they wanted it. MK however, still goes even to positive on every character in game. That Plus the fact that he can eliminate most of his bad stages in most cases, makes it a double threat. Most characters, infact, all other characters, don't have the luxury of both blessings.
_____________________________
All you have to do is apply that theory to a Lucario state of view, and ask yourself what stages can you really C/P against MK.
Cheers ^_^
Aurasmash14
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2009
- Messages
- 1,540
whatever comes out of the MK thread, you can be sure it was is and probably always will be one of the most controversial threads in the SWF. In all reason, i hate MK to the fullest and want him to be gone. but i am afraid of the consequences more than wanting him to be gone. I fear D3 and Marth and having MK gone will only make them flourish more. Besides that, for those who read the marvel comics, MK is like the kingpin. If he leaves Mass chaos will erupt and new power struggles will result from the new populations ESPECCIALLY in the EC. + my friends, smash crew, and Biggest competitors are all anti ban and will quit if he leaves.. so i voted no.
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
I saw you vote lol.
I am leaving my personal feelings about how this will exploit my character to of this, and strictly going about if he should be banned or not. I don't have an issue learning to pick up characters to solve what Lucario can not do, and the only person I haven't covered is Marth if MK gets his banned. All this will do is correct the C/P system. It is perfectly normal to have other characters to support your main. In fact, I think that is what this game is about. MK just upsets that statement though.
Alus
Smash Champion
Mewtario
Smash Ace
I sure am! Now with 80% more patriotism!
F1ZZ
Smash Lord
Hey im justing wondering if anyone has brawl+ and if they actually main Lucario in it? The reason I am asking is that the Lucario+ thread has died and we need discussion.
The link to the thread is: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230273
Also I think we should name our Lucario guide something.
The link to the thread is: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230273
Also I think we should name our Lucario guide something.
Alus
Smash Champion
I am taking a very very long break from Brawl+...
Actually im starting to not like it >_> I need to play it again.
But seriously...a brawl+ CMD?
Actually im starting to not like it >_> I need to play it again.
But seriously...a brawl+ CMD?
iRJi
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2008
- Messages
- 2,423
Names make it seem unprofessional, lol. If its a guide, then let the name be the guide =]
Mewtario
Smash Ace
We outta name it The Guide.
Sorta llike The Game, which I just lost >_>
Sorta llike The Game, which I just lost >_>
Alus
Smash Champion
The Game?
- Status