Yoshi v. Meta Knight

[bigman40]

Or if they sit in the shield, then you can Dair. If you know DR, then learn the options. You'll be able to keep Usmash fresh (killing consistently at 120%). You don't have any other reliable method of killing other than Jab > DownB at around 140/150%.

 

[.Marik]

My posting style was so different back in the day.

Also, Delta-cod laying that matchup knowledge down.

I love typing when I'm high.

 

[Delta-cod]

Pretty sure I've told you a couple times at least, remember it dammit! >.<

I try to, it's just that I don't get enough practice to work it in. If we're ever together at an event, you need to constantly tell me these things as I friendly a MK or something. >_<

 

[Sharky]

I strongly feel that every yoshi here would do 10x better if two of us were actually at the same tournament actively coaching during each others' matches. Dead serious.

Delta I'll get at you at apex, I'll tell you the 10 billion little things like this and you tell me to stop approaching, sounds about even =D

 

[Delta-cod]

I strongly feel that every yoshi here would do 10x better if two of us were actually at the same tournament actively coaching during each others' matches. Dead serious.

Delta I'll get at you at apex, I'll tell you the 10 billion little things like this and you tell me to stop approaching, sounds about even =D

It's probably true, since we all have different things we excel in. Having someone coaching you would help you do many different things, lol.

Yo, we're so Apex coach teaming. We'll be getting Top 16 in no time.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Actually... thats not a bad idea... when i first started playing yoshi this guy who uses him casually coached me a bit and I beat this toon link guy. I couldnt beat him again for the next 5 tournaments... BUT ANYWAY this is MK discussion so BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!!

 

[Airborne]

I'm going to start experimenting again for rare situation's sake, so you might hear some weird sh*t from me down the road.

 

[indigestible_wad]

As far as approaches go, I've found that mixing in a running upsmash works really well. When you run at meta knight, they assume you're going to grab so they jump. If they full hop jump, you will hit with upsmash from what I can tell 100% of the time, because they don't try to dair because they think they're too high. If they short hop dair camp, it's pretty impossible to get a hit, but if they fair you, I'm not sure, but I think our upsmash might outprioritize their fair.

All I know is that I use way to many running grabs out of habit, and a running upsmash here and there seems to work when they start to see that.

 

[Airborne]

As far as approaches go, I've found that mixing in a running upsmash works really well. When you run at meta knight, they assume you're going to grab so they jump. If they full hop jump, you will hit with upsmash from what I can tell 100% of the time, because they don't try to dair because they think they're too high. If they short hop dair camp, it's pretty impossible to get a hit, but if they fair you, I'm not sure, but I think our upsmash might outprioritize their fair.

All I know is that I use way to many running grabs out of habit, and a running upsmash here and there seems to work when they start to see that.

Ehh, I'm not too fond of that idea because of the two more common options metaknight has in that position: spot dodge and grounded SL. Since grounded SL has invincibility on startup, mk can just stuff us out of all possible approaches.

Besides, you're approaching mk? >___>

 

[Deleted member]

As far as approaches go, I've found that mixing in a running upsmash works really well. When you run at meta knight, they assume you're going to grab so they jump. If they full hop jump, you will hit with upsmash from what I can tell 100% of the time, because they don't try to dair because they think they're too high. If they short hop dair camp, it's pretty impossible to get a hit, but if they fair you, I'm not sure, but I think our upsmash might outprioritize their fair.

All I know is that I use way to many running grabs out of habit, and a running upsmash here and there seems to work when they start to see that.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

 

[Z'zgashi]

If they dair camp you can try to jump away and egg them

 

[Airborne]

Or be a man, heavy armor through it, and tell them what's up.

12% Nair revenge hitting ftw.

 

[Airborne]

Or be a man, heavy armor through it, and tell them what's up.

12% Nair revenge hitting ftw.

 

[Delta-cod]

I save Nair for kills.

 

[~Firefly~]

It's strong; he presses it while he's jumpin' up.

 

[~Firefly~]

smmmmashhhhhhhhhhhhhhboaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddddssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 

[Deleted member]

Or you can not take stupid risks, and realize that the risk reward for rising nair is not really in yoshis favor, and that unless MK is at high percent and yoshi is at low, its not even that rewarding.

MK doesnt do anything when hes dair camping, except waste time. I never have time problems cuz i like run up and spam egg lay against everyone and hopefully it works =D
If hes timing you out, dont get impatient. Thats the worst mistake you can make. Just chip damage, bait nados, and go for the big punish when it presents itself.

MK is surprisingly succeptible to running off randomly and spiking if they arent prepared for it. It sounds silly but since MKs sometimes try to go really low if you run off, you just read their DI and boof.

^The above paragraph should only be tried if you actually know what you are doing, or you will get gimped XD

Edit: And he camp the ledge cuz he is a silly duck

 

[.AC.]

i heard burntsocks gets gimped a lot.

 

[AndorranPrince]

I favor Yoshi, and against MK I always found that they weren't hard to compete with in the air, so long as you work hard to keep the super armor up. The longer they stay in the air, the easier they are to juggle, smash, etc.

 

[Delta-cod]

On the subject of being timed out, depending on how far you are behind, you have a LOT of time to catch up through your normal camp/chip damage. In my most recent experience of being timed out by MK, I didn't begin my approaching until around 30 seconds left on the clock or less (too lazy to go look.) At about this time, MK will try to air camp more rather than sitting there grounded, where he's nearly impossible for us to approach, allowing for a greater opportunity for a catch up.

Remember kids, when playing MK, just think: What would Deltacod do?

 

[Z'zgashi]

I favor Yoshi, and against MK I always found that they weren't hard to compete with in the air, so long as you work hard to keep the super armor up. The longer they stay in the air, the easier they are to juggle, smash, etc.

There is no way Yoshi beats MK and he never will. I do however think he stands a better chance then most other chars

Remember kids, when playing MK, just think: What would Deltacod do?

Probably stand still and do nothing


Also, I told the MK boards about this like a week ago, but I guess they all think they're to good for us or something... looks like it's time to name bait...

 

[Delta-cod]

They made snarky comments in their thread. Just forget them, they're not much help anyways. Most of them don't discuss MUs cuz they're MK, they just go, "Oh, I'm MK. I can do anything since I'm the gayest character in the history of ever!" and win.

Yes, I want him gone. I wouldn't be considering picking up Diddy if he weren't in existence. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

i heard burntsocks gets gimped a lot.

Only against lame D3s

Im gonna stick to yoshi on this matchup, i feel like if you dont make mistakes we can do it.
I was playin nai ro(dont want namesearch) on wifi, and i was getting *****, then it clicked for a sec and i felt like i knew the matchup really well.

Meta knight is not a perfect character, and yoshi does have tools to outprioritize him in many positions.

 

[Delta-cod]

We have a tool that outprioritizes each individual move MK has. Too bad he has a million other options that beat that one tool. It's like a guessing game, where you have to guess his exact move in order to beat him. Sure, you can limit possibilities depending on his position, but the odds are still against you.

It's so depressing.

 

[Deleted member]

Yup =(
Luckily egg lay ***** everything.
Except shuttle loop =[

 

[Z'zgashi]

I still dont think its a terrible mu tho. We have the ability to shut him down, it's just really difficult due to us needing to rely almost entirely on reads. If were doing numbers id say 60:40 maybe even 55:45 but thats pushing it a little imo

 

[Deleted member]

I still dont think its a terrible mu tho. We have the ability to shut him down, it's just really difficult due to us needing to rely almost entirely on reads. If were doing numbers id say 60:40 maybe even 55:45 but thats pushing it a little imo

you live in utah.
Discuss.

And no we dont have the ability to shut down MK, he shuts us down, its just that yoshi can punish MK kinda decently, while not getting super gimped like snake.

Snake does ok cuz he punishes MK maaaad hard, but doesnt win cuz he gets gimped really bad.
Yoshi doesnt camp or punish nearly as well as snake, but doesnt get gimped unless you mess up

 

[Delta-cod]

I still dont think its a terrible mu tho. We have the ability to shut him down, it's just really difficult due to us needing to rely almost entirely on reads. If were doing numbers id say 60:40 maybe even 55:45 but thats pushing it a little imo

Switch regions with me and see what you say after a few tournaments.

Also, having to rely ENTIRELY on reads means the match up is TERRIBLE. If we have nothing to rely on except mindgames, that means we're at a severe disadvantage.

Socks, I have safe recovering issues, halp.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Utah is eating my mind...

 

[bigman40]

The MU is stupid. All you can do is camp until you get a moment where you have frame advantage. Only thing you can do is stay grounded to keep stage control as long as possible. Only egg short distances in front of you to create a weak wall.

Don't rely on pivot grabbing because MK can get around it too easily. If you have him at 110% and you can't get a grab in, then use the jab lock to either add damage, or to setup a chance to pivot grab/kill. Jabs are our best kill setups honestly.

If you get knocked off stage, you're pretty much going to take tons of damage before getting back on. MK covers too many of our options to allows us to land safely (yes, even wavebounced egglays). If they Dair camp, then mixup between eggs and FH Bair.

I do better in this matchup than I do playing Pikachu (mainly cause I can't kill, camp, or get in close to do anything solid). Yoshi luckily has the better options to dealing with this.

 

[bigman40]

SWF is extremely dumb right now man.

 

[bigman40]

Ignore this man.

 

[Delta-cod]

SWF just ***** Big.

 

[indigestible_wad]

Delta pretty much nailed it. Since meta knight has almost no lag before and after his attacks, the only way to punish him, or hit him for that matter, is if he makes a mistake or you mindgame him.

 

[Z'zgashi]

So if were done with discussion i guess we're onto numbers. I still think its 60:40 as I feel we have a solid, fighting chance. Your opinions?

 

[Yikarur]

MU discussions never end.

 

[Z'zgashi]

It's only a temporary conclusion

 

[Deleted member]

So if were done with discussion i guess we're onto numbers. I still think its 60:40 as I feel we have a solid, fighting chance. Your opinions?

35:65 at best, probably worse. I mean, i dont wanna bag on your experience, but even looking at the matchup in theory, you could get to that conclusion.
Meta knight makes yoshi unviable. Unfortunate =[
The good news is that for yoshis worst matchup, we sure have a lot of things over MK xD

Yoshi has to greatly outplay the MK player, or they have to be bad/not know the matchup. Generally matchup ratios are based around high level play, and yoshi doesnt really have the hard punishes/ability to punish stuff(Snake, falco, ICs, diddy, pika), the options in neutral position(snake, falco, diddy, fox) , or the kill moves(FOX) to make the matchup even close to even.
Falco loses probably 4-6ish to MK, with a lot stronger tools to fight MK. It feels like the characters that do that best are the ones that can punish his stuff and not let him live to 150. Yoshi has decent punishes which can kill, but yea =/
Obviously yoshi CAN win, but he SHOULDNT win.

 

[Airborne]

Yeah, I'd say that 35:65 is an agreeable ratio; we get our as*es handed to us when we are offstage, and we don't have too much to deal with his moveset....
Why's this guy in the roster again?

 

[Delta-cod]

Creator of the Kirby series: Sakurai

Creator of the Smash series: Sakurai

Discuss.