Yoshi Theater: video thread

[ividal]

man raptor, you had many down b chances to take the last stock, still good run though, i would have choked waaaaaay sooner

 

[Maister]

Basically showcasing how to use yoshi to gimp. For example his dair does really well at gimping marth/lucina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHWwrnUteS4

 

[YoHeKing]

Basically showcasing how to use yoshi to gimp. For example his dair does really well at gimping marth/lucina: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHWwrnUteS4

Not just lucina. His down air works against alot of vertical recoverys.

 

[Maister]

Not just lucina. His down air works against alot of vertical recoverys.

Yeah. just thought I'd post this one since I had a video. Also jab to fair is an amazing gimp if your opponent jumps.

 

[Retoman]

Got another match on stream during a local Yoshi v Fox
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/9967655?t=54m08s
after re-watching this match I feel like my game-play was very sloppy any critiques on how I can improve in this match up would be very helpful.

Also got another match on stream but only went Yoshi the first game.
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/9967655?t=1h58m09s
I really struggle in the against Sheik ( As both yoshi and villager)
(Ignoring the moment I pooped my pants in that last stock) Critiques on what I should do to improve on against Sheik would be especially helpful.

 

[YoHeKing]

Got another match on stream during a local Yoshi v Fox
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/9967655?t=54m08s
after re-watching this match I feel like my game-play was very sloppy any critiques on how I can improve in this match up would be very helpful.

Also got another match on stream but only went Yoshi the first game.
http://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/9967655?t=1h58m09s
I really struggle in the against Sheik ( As both yoshi and villager)
(Ignoring the moment I pooped my pants in that last stock) Critiques on what I should do to improve on against Sheik would be especially helpful.

Having a bad MU against sheik Is conpletly normal. I havn't seen the videos yet but the best thing you can do is play more and more sheik players.

You could try grounded double jump fast fall for trades as long as you know when its safe.

 

[Micaelis]

Hi guys, first time posting my videos here. The most important match is first game against LordMix. I was definitely not on my A game at this tournament with some of the first SDs I've had in a long time but as this shows, I can potentially play at this level so I need critique at this level too!

http://www.twitch.tv/sixfortyfive/v/10204918

30:25 - vs CatOwl
45:50 - vs LordMix
1:40:20 - vs Grief
1:49:00 - vs SaltOne

Overall I definitely need to learn the high level MU against Bowser and not fold to pressure vs Falcon. Thanks in advance for your time and help!

Edit: Also I play a single game of Rosalina who was my old main in a sad attempt to see if I still knew the MU. I was doing okay until the SD. I hadn't played her in a long time and like I said... B game.

Edit 2: Commentators didn't know anything about me so ignore their commentary during my first game.

 

[Skitrel]

Kudemo hasn't shown up yet to post it but he uploaded another offline friendlies with Zudenka, I know Slush in particular likes his gameplay.

 

[YoHeKing]

Zudenka has a good yoshi. I like watching him but he grabs alot and misses which I find odd.

Also whats Yoshis safest throw against rosalina to actually do a follow up on luma. Im guessing forward or down throw into side tilt for an easy follow up?

 

[Skitrel]

Continuing from my previous post a week ago, I've compiled everything notable to release on YouTube in the last week for /r/yoshimains on reddit. The following is a copy of the post there for convenience here.

Links to other video threads:

Week 1

SuperSmashCon(Yearly? National)

SSC - TSM | ZeRo (Sheik) Vs. PG | Esam (Pikachu, Yoshi) SSB4 Grand Finals - Smash Wii U - Smash 4

SmashBros at Church 2(local)

SMASH BROS AT CHURCH 2 - IQHQ Vinnie (Sheik) vs Leepuff (Yoshi) - W/Round 5 - SSB4 Wii U

Gwinnett Brawl(local)

GB Aug 8, 2015 - SSB4 Doubles - Losers Final - Dr. Yoshi vs Trap Queen

GB Aug 8, 2015 - SSB4 Doubles - Hot N Ready vs Dr. Yoshi

KSM Hype! Train 3(local)

HYPE! Train 3 SSB4 Singles Losers Finals: Shaky (Ness) Vs. MPTV WFGA | Mr. Doom (Yoshi)

Smash@Blu42(local)

LR1 - Moke (Yoshi/ZSS) vs. 8BIT | Chinito (Mario) - Smash@Blu42 - SSB4

WR2 - Top 17 | Bobeta (Luigi) vs. Iron (Yoshi) - Smash@Blu42 - SSB4

 

[Lukingordex]

Some sets of mine from my last tourney:

Vs Pikachu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZU_4ykXT1c

Vs Little Mac (Last match only): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfzmpsXKk38

Vs Meta Knight (Match 1, 4, 6, and all the next ones.): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIASWODJRXA

 

[Genma316]

No more ;P

 

[shapular]

I played Master Raven on Smashladder a couple days ago. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9_E0JNVO8o

 

[Lukingordex]

I played Master Raven on Smashladder a couple days ago. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9_E0JNVO8o

You're having a really hard time landing on the stage once you're in the air. Try to vary your landing options, Yoshi has a lot of tools to keep unpredictable in the air. You can b-reverse a egg throw or a egg lay out of nowhere, for example.

Speaking about egg lay, I don't remember seeing you using it even once in this set... This move is one of Yoshi's feel decent options against shields and a very good surprise attack against people trying to punish your landing.

Also, take care at the ledge, you got killed by a Fsmash read 3 times in this set because you got your normal ledge get up foreseen, try to vary your options here.

Btw, nice read at 1:55.

 

[Skitrel]

Take extra special care on the ledge, particular in the Metaknight matchup.

I think you were benefitted here by the MK not knowing the Yoshi matchup very well. He has absolutely no problem grabbing Yoshi straight out of the air at the edge and he breaks jump armour with a number of moves. It's not an insurmountable problem as we can get around it by recovering high and using Breversals to fake out the Metaknight, but every time I saw you going to land next to him or grabbing the ledge you gave me a heart attack.

As Lukinhasss said it's also the primary method by which the MK was getting easy kills against you. Go high against Metaknight. His uair is one to watch out for with good juggle game but it's better than death.

 

[shapular]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I didn't think about B-reversing Egg Lay.

He said he did know the matchup well, actually. He's from Florida so he's probably played Poltergust.

 

[mrashford]

I wish I had a capture card so I can show you all my Yoshi so I can receive some more tips to level up my Yoshi gameplay, especially against certain MU's.

 

[Lukingordex]

Someone plz halp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEQ_Z9THak
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5raIb7GBzY

 

[Regralht]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqCgAwB6JqSqnAJNBZlseI4_r8MaWT2qH some sets from yesterday. I'll beat zinoto some day

 

[Delta-cod]

Someone plz halp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QEQ_Z9THak
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5raIb7GBzY

So, I actually can't see anything flat out "wrong" that you're doing. I honestly have no advice to give for this MU seeing this, besides learn to play against the player more than the character. I don't think there's anything to tell you that would improve your performance by a substantial margin besides stuff like "oh you got read on your landing/recovery don't do that" and "oh try to read his defensive options better so you can get more damage and kills".

Y'know what I'm saying? I don't see any more "technology" to apply against Sheik past what you're doing. Hopefully someone else and chime in with better insight. =/

Edit: Maybe try different OOS options? Usmash/shield drop jab/Nair?

@ Regralht You should try using Usmash OoS too. I saw some spots where Diddy hit your shield and you coulda used Usmash to punish instead of jab (I think).

 

[Skitrel]

I'm late this time by a couple of days. But this is everything notable since my last roundup (9 days ago). I'll be doing these every Monday in future starting 9 days from now. This'll catch it all up and give me a better day to do it (after the weekend events).

This Week's video thread

Smash at Xanadu 110(Weekly)

S@X 110 - Cree (Sheik, Villager) Vs. TC1 (Yoshi) SSB4 Tournament - Smash Wii U - Smash 4

SSBMontreal(Weekly)

wTT/SoPhat (Dr. Mario) vs SSB T-R Mr. L3GUME (Yoshi) - Winners Bracket - SSB4 Weekly #35

HoH_CrazyLittleJoy (WFT, Roy) vs wTT/Kcired (Yoshi) - Winners Bracket - SSB4 Weekly #35

Megacake Meltdown(Monthly?)

Megacake Meltdown 3rd Strike SSB4 Singles Pools: Shaka (Pac-Man) Vs. MPTV WFGA | Mr. Doom (Yoshi)

Chalupa Supreme(Invitational?)

Chalupa Supreme SSB4 Tournament: Bunners(Link) VS JonTron 2.0(Marth/Yoshi)

Smash at Xanadu 111(Weekly)

S@X 111 - VGBC | Aposl (Yoshi) Vs. Average Joe (Donkey Kong) SSB4 Tournament - Smash Wii u - Smash 4

S@X 111 - VGBC | Aposl (Yoshi) Vs. VGBC | Tantalus (ROB) SSB4 Tournament - Smash Wii U - Smash 4

NUC6

NUC6 - Dr. Karts (Olimar) vs. phili (Yoshi, Donkey Kong) - Losers Semis - SSB4

SSBMontreal(Weekly)

Inhumanepie (Bowser Jr., Dedede) vs wTT/Kcired (Yoshi) - Winners Bracket - SSB4 Weekly #36

Smash PHD

[Smash PhD II] Zero (Peach) vs Lukinhas (Yoshi) - Winners Semis

[Smash PhD II] Lukinhas (Yoshi) vs Zohup (Ludwig, MK) - Losers Finals

Duplicate event names indicate that they're different events(usually weeklies, this is due to late thread)

 

[Doublenickels]

Hi guys! I recently won a tourney for the first time, and I have footage of it for critique! I have some losses in there which will likely be more useful, I used other characters as well so I will just link the games where I played Yoshi.

vs. Link Game 1 only, swordies always give me trouble :/

vs. Mario Game 1 only. I really struggle with Mario, any help here?

vs. Metaknight and MegaMan Both games.

vs. Luigi and Kirby Both games. Loser's Semis.

vs. Mario Loser's finals. Same guy who bumped me to loser's. First two games are Yoshi, I go Wario for games 3 through 5.

vs. Fox and Rosa Grand finals 1st set. Games 1, 2 and 3.

vs. Kirby Grand finals 2nd set. Game 2 only

Thanks for any feedback you can give, I'd really appreciate it! I know it is a lot to watch so I understand if you can't get to all of them.

 

[Delta-cod]

vs. Mario Game 1 only. I really struggle with Mario, any help here?

I think the one thing that's killing you is your inefficient punishes. He dash attacks your shield and you try to spot dodge > punish, but that's too slow. You catch him charging F/Dsmash and your best punish is a dash grab. He hits your shield with a poorly spaced move and you roll away.

What you need to do is learn what you can punish, and how best to do it. He hit your shield with a laggy move? Usmash OOS! It's a free kill! Not at kill percent/move's not that laggy? Nair OOS! Very few situations against Mario call for rolling away after he hits your shield -- his frame data's not THAT good.

When someone's charging a dumb smash attack and you're out of range, I can understand the caution, not wanting to get hit. But you should try to get a better follow up. Try SH/FH Egg Toss > stuff. The Egg WILL hit, they're already stuck. But we have some true combos on these things. Egg > Uair, Egg > Nair, Egg > Fair, whatever.

I think you make some poor decisions in neutral/while landing too, but he didn't seem to punish too hard (or at all, really). You must be more careful while landing, our options aren't that strong. Don't land into characters in most cases, it's pretty bad. Your last death was a clear indication of this poor decision making as well. You need to become more familiar with the spacing at which grounded Egg Toss is safe. When you were on that platform, grounded ET was probably the worst thing you could have done. =/

 

[Doublenickels]

I think the one thing that's killing you is your inefficient punishes. He dash attacks your shield and you try to spot dodge > punish, but that's too slow. You catch him charging F/Dsmash and your best punish is a dash grab. He hits your shield with a poorly spaced move and you roll away.

What you need to do is learn what you can punish, and how best to do it. He hit your shield with a laggy move? Usmash OOS! It's a free kill! Not at kill percent/move's not that laggy? Nair OOS! Very few situations against Mario call for rolling away after he hits your shield -- his frame data's not THAT good.

When someone's charging a dumb smash attack and you're out of range, I can understand the caution, not wanting to get hit. But you should try to get a better follow up. Try SH/FH Egg Toss > stuff. The Egg WILL hit, they're already stuck. But we have some true combos on these things. Egg > Uair, Egg > Nair, Egg > Fair, whatever.

I think you make some poor decisions in neutral/while landing too, but he didn't seem to punish too hard (or at all, really). You must be more careful while landing, our options aren't that strong. Don't land into characters in most cases, it's pretty bad. Your last death was a clear indication of this poor decision making as well. You need to become more familiar with the spacing at which grounded Egg Toss is safe. When you were on that platform, grounded ET was probably the worst thing you could have done. =/

Hey, thanks a ton for that help! This definitely something I'm going to be referring back to!

I'll be more cautious of falling into people and grounded egg toss for sure.

and I'll put effort into improving those punishes.

It feels like these are things I was subconsciously picking up on but not thinking about enough. Thanks so much!

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey, thanks a ton for that help! This definitely something I'm going to be referring back to!

I'll be more cautious of falling into people and grounded egg toss for sure.

and I'll put effort into improving those punishes.

It feels like these are things I was subconsciously picking up on but not thinking about enough. Thanks so much!

I think the thing you should focus on the most is just removing spot dodge for any defensive purpose besides avoiding grabs. In Brawl Spotdodge was great! Now it's kinda slow, plus we have a real shield. It's not necessary to use spotdodge to escape the shield quickly and safely anymore, so start using more OoS options or shield drops.

 

[Doublenickels]

I think the thing you should focus on the most is just removing spot dodge for any defensive purpose besides avoiding grabs. In Brawl Spotdodge was great! Now it's kinda slow, plus we have a real shield. It's not necessary to use spotdodge to escape the shield quickly and safely anymore, so start using more OoS options or shield drops.

Good points, I hadn't really thought about spot dodges very much. Thanks for the advice!

 

[RaptorTEC]

http://youtu.be/ZQ5Dv6xOW0c

Last 15 seconds of game 5 set 2 of GF's. Its amazing lol

 

[Sinister Slush]

I can't tell if 1. somebody is dying and banging on a locker or something. or 2. dramatic music
funny nonetheless

 

[Doublenickels]

http://youtu.be/ZQ5Dv6xOW0c

Last 15 seconds of game 5 set 2 of GF's. Its amazing lol

That is absolutely filthy. I love it.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I can't tell if 1. somebody is dying and banging on a locker or something. or 2. dramatic music
funny nonetheless

Tv in the background lol

 

[Wave57]

Recent round 1 doubles at a regional in Oregon against Brick who is currently #4 Oregon. This is the only video I really have of me haha.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QsjbJgol7dQ
Match starts at 3:20.

 

[Skitrel]

Week 4's compilation of the last week's videos. This went up on the subreddit yesterday but I didn't have time to convert it to bbcode for the forum. I've removed the Melee/PM/Smash64 videos for the convenience of this subforum. That's why you're not in there Wave. I assume I'll pick yours up in next Monday's run through.

Links to other video threads:

Week 1

Week 2

Week 3

Shockwave43

SW 43 Smash 4 - I eat for my friends (Yoshi) vs FX DFW | Sethlon (Roy) - Winners Bracket

The Zen Room

Smash 4 Weekly (2015-08-07) - USERID (King Dedede) vs. Rstevoa (Yoshi)

Smash 4 Weekly (2015-08-07) - Fuzyll (Yoshi) vs. Stiitch (Ike)

Smash 4 Weekly (2015-08-07) - Rstevoa (Yoshi) vs. Phantom Sheep (Fox)

SSC

SSC - iQHQ | Raptor (Yoshi) Vs. VQ iQHQ | Dabuz (Rosalina) SSB4 Top 32 - Smash Wii U - Smash 4

SSVIi

SSVII - JulyToMe (Link) Vs. Brax (Yoshi) - Smash 4 WR2 Pool C

Smash 4 Versus

Smash 4 Versus Weekly 8/13/15 - Losers Qtrs - Master Raven (Sheik) vs Xaltis (Yoshi)

Smash 4 Versus Weekly 8/13/15 - Losers Qtrs - Poltergust (Yoshi) vs NickRiddle (Marth)

Smash 4 Versus Weekly 8/13/15 - Winners Qtrs - Master Raven (Sheik) vs Poltergust (Yoshi)

EVAC

EVAC - Empire (Lucario) vs Nikes (Yoshi) - Winners Semis - Smash 4

EVAC - Nikes (Yoshi) vs Dubnation (Mario) - Losers Quarters - Smash 4

MVG|SOL

MVG|Sol (Little Mac) vs. Volc (Yoshi) - SSB4 Winners R3 - Smash Conference 38

SAFGC

SAFGC R5 - Nikes (Yoshi) vs Ghost (Meta Knight/Luigi) - Winners Finals - Smash 4

[2/2] SAFGC R5 - Nikes (Yoshi) vs Pyren (Shulk) - Losers Finals - Smash 4

SAFGC R5 - Nikes (Yoshi) vs Empire (Lucario) - Winners Semis - Smash 4

[1/2] SAFGC R5 - Nikes (Yoshi) vs Pyren (ZSS/Pit) - Losers Finals - Smash 4

SFC13

SFC13 2v2 | Winner's Round 2 | Lilnest's Naptime vs El Yoshi + ShadowFoxXD

SFC13 2v2 | Loser's SemiFinals | ShadowFoxXD + El Yoshi vs Big Boss + NK

SFC13 2v2 | Winner's Round 3 | ShadowFoxXD + El Yoshi vs Wenis + Weegee

SMYM16

SMYM16 Smash 4 Pools (Singles): Puddingpop (Yoshi) vs. P Chron (Ryu)

 

[Nikes]

Fantastic stuff in gathering these videos Skitrel, now I need to step up and do my job of actually updating this thread eventually haha.

Going to have to swallow my pride and ask for critique in my vids in above post actually, some matchups I struggle with really hard like MK and Luigi...and I do not want to lose to Ghost again.
Also, some of the SAFGC games get really choppy for a while including GFs but it clears up later, still watchable but just not that great. In my match vs Pyren (Pit) someone accidentally pulled out the capture card cable so it freezes up completely for that match, I managed to get a really nice double stage spike and edgeguard Pit too after the cable was pulled, so it wasn't recorded

 

[Delta-cod]

and I do not want to lose to Ghost again.

This speaks to me! Advice time.

vs. MK, Lylat: First thing, know your stages. I saw you trying to SHAD at the start, which is usually a pretty poor choice cuz tilting stage messes with the timing. Secondly, why do you keep trying to land with Bair? You got punished for it early on and lost the match for it in the end. It just seems really sub-par, so...why? Thirdly, stop trying to use Egg Toss against MK. He's too small and too fast for that. You did SO much better when trying to box with him. Lastly, don't rely on shield/spotdodge so much. Use ftilt/dtilt /pivoted to keep MK out. Hell, you could even try jabs. But playing the shield or spotdodge game with him seems like you're playing into the game he wants you to play, which you should be deliberately trying to avoid.

vs. Luigi, BF: I think you played really well here for the most part, but there are some things here that are still holding you back. You seem to over-commit to your punishes that aren't guaranteed. For example, first stock, you went in hard to try to punish down b, but that's a false opening and it just got you punished. Second stock, during the edge guard situation, you missed your read, which is fine, since you still had the speed advantage to maintain the positional advantage. But then you tried REALLY hard to reach with a second attempt, which was just not gonna happen, and you ate the punishment. You need to know when to hold off. Also, when trying to get off the ledge against Weegee, I'd try going to the top platform, then using B-reverses/our general mobility to make your way back down. You tried this weird ledge drop > Egg Lay > Egg thing which just didn't really work. In general, you look really scared (understandably) when in the corner. I think you need to cut a lot of the spotdodges, our spotdodge is kinda slow and not really a great dodge/punish for most moves anymore. If you're worried about grabs, I'd say Nair OOS is better.

Grand Finals, Game 1: Man this was such a pretty game (from what I could see anyways). Some of the spotdodging was kinda ugly, but you really boxed him to death. It was great! SH Dair punishes on dash ins, etc. Just beautiful.

Game 2: I'm not really sure what happened here. I can't pinpoint anything specific you did wrong (besides get rekt), so I think you just got super outplayed. @_@

Upon review, it looks like you were just too overzealous with your Nair approaches/combo breaks. Ghost seemed to have that read like a book, and it got you punished with huge combos repeatedly. You also fell into the false opening problem again, like trying to fall with NAir after a shuttle loop from way up high. Don't get greedy. Your movement also looked bad this game. =/

Game 3: This game is when I really noticed it: You work way too hard to try to juggle MK. You're going alllllllllll the way up there to try to get him. FH > DJ > Peak Height Uair is pretty limited, easy to work around considering he has multiple jumps, and is very, very risky considering he falls faster than you. It's not really worth it. There were times where this worked out, but it was usually because you already had some height positioning so you weren't reaching far. You also kept falling into the Shuttle Loop false opening thing again.

Game 4: I think you should stop trying to air dodge out of those Uair strings. Everytime you do it it looks like bad stuff happens. I think you'd have much better luck DJing out and then trying to land, especially with platformed stages that give you more options to do so. Your first stock was a good testament to airdodging being kinda poor. The second stock you DJ'd through a lot, and you escaped more frequently, which was nice. I do think you should continue air dodging if you're out of other good options though. You dodged that Shuttle Loop at the end (then missed the punish >=/), which was sweet.

Side Note: The commentators used "pineapple" as a verb the same way my friends and I do. This is the first I've ever heard it used elsewhere. Hype.

Game 5: Wow this was choppy. I couldn't see much, but I think you need to learn when to prioritize landing. If you're without your DJ, you should work on getting it back immediately. Down B to a ledge is a great way to do this. DJ is your recovery, and your main combo escape in this MU (imo), so it's vital you have it. I think you lost your second stock because you were trying to fight your way down too much.

 

[Nikes]

This speaks to me! Advice time.

vs. MK, Lylat: First thing, know your stages. I saw you trying to SHAD at the start, which is usually a pretty poor choice cuz tilting stage messes with the timing. Secondly, why do you keep trying to land with Bair? You got punished for it early on and lost the match for it in the end. It just seems really sub-par, so...why? Thirdly, stop trying to use Egg Toss against MK. He's too small and too fast for that. You did SO much better when trying to box with him. Lastly, don't rely on shield/spotdodge so much. Use ftilt/dtilt /pivoted to keep MK out. Hell, you could even try jabs. But playing the shield or spotdodge game with him seems like you're playing into the game he wants you to play, which you should be deliberately trying to avoid.

vs. Luigi, BF: I think you played really well here for the most part, but there are some things here that are still holding you back. You seem to over-commit to your punishes that aren't guaranteed. For example, first stock, you went in hard to try to punish down b, but that's a false opening and it just got you punished. Second stock, during the edge guard situation, you missed your read, which is fine, since you still had the speed advantage to maintain the positional advantage. But then you tried REALLY hard to reach with a second attempt, which was just not gonna happen, and you ate the punishment. You need to know when to hold off. Also, when trying to get off the ledge against Weegee, I'd try going to the top platform, then using B-reverses/our general mobility to make your way back down. You tried this weird ledge drop > Egg Lay > Egg thing which just didn't really work. In general, you look really scared (understandably) when in the corner. I think you need to cut a lot of the spotdodges, our spotdodge is kinda slow and not really a great dodge/punish for most moves anymore. If you're worried about grabs, I'd say Nair OOS is better.

Grand Finals, Game 1: Man this was such a pretty game (from what I could see anyways). Some of the spotdodging was kinda ugly, but you really boxed him to death. It was great! SH Dair punishes on dash ins, etc. Just beautiful.

Game 2: I'm not really sure what happened here. I can't pinpoint anything specific you did wrong (besides get rekt), so I think you just got super outplayed. @_@

Upon review, it looks like you were just too overzealous with your Nair approaches/combo breaks. Ghost seemed to have that read like a book, and it got you punished with huge combos repeatedly. You also fell into the false opening problem again, like trying to fall with NAir after a shuttle loop from way up high. Don't get greedy. Your movement also looked bad this game. =/

Game 3: This game is when I really noticed it: You work way too hard to try to juggle MK. You're going alllllllllll the way up there to try to get him. FH > DJ > Peak Height Uair is pretty limited, easy to work around considering he has multiple jumps, and is very, very risky considering he falls faster than you. It's not really worth it. There were times where this worked out, but it was usually because you already had some height positioning so you weren't reaching far. You also kept falling into the Shuttle Loop false opening thing again.

Game 4: I think you should stop trying to air dodge out of those Uair strings. Everytime you do it it looks like bad stuff happens. I think you'd have much better luck DJing out and then trying to land, especially with platformed stages that give you more options to do so. Your first stock was a good testament to airdodging being kinda poor. The second stock you DJ'd through a lot, and you escaped more frequently, which was nice. I do think you should continue air dodging if you're out of other good options though. You dodged that Shuttle Loop at the end (then missed the punish >=/), which was sweet.

Side Note: The commentators used "pineapple" as a verb the same way my friends and I do. This is the first I've ever heard it used elsewhere. Hype.

Game 5: Wow this was choppy. I couldn't see much, but I think you need to learn when to prioritize landing. If you're without your DJ, you should work on getting it back immediately. Down B to a ledge is a great way to do this. DJ is your recovery, and your main combo escape in this MU (imo), so it's vital you have it. I think you lost your second stock because you were trying to fight your way down too much.

Thanks so much for this huge feedback Delta, this is huge.

I would never take MK to lylat, but I was expecting him to go Luigi and he banned Smashville and something else (can't remember what), so I basically ran out of stages throughout our sets. (hence Castle Siege and Delfino...) It's funny because I've been told to work on my defense before and I figure getting grabbed out of my shield by MK at kill % is better than being dash attacked into upB, but as you say, Yoshi really is better off at just swatting him away huh...
I think you're right in saying that Nair OOS should be alright for repelling him, I just have a bad experience of my falling Nairs getting shielded and punished hard. (yet MKs fastfall Nair you get no time to punish if they don't use it too early @_@)
The Bair landings were intended to hopefully buy me some time by poking him, though it's not nearly as effective against small characters like MK since you can't really land the multi hit, yet I still went for it. :s It's probably not that great on grounded opponents at all.
A lot of my being scared comes from past negative experiences against these characters and not knowing what to do, trying too hard to not let the past repeat itself and falling into a kill setup, despite how most setups rely on grabs which are beaten by well timed jabs-knowing when to jab and not get shielded then grabbed despite your efforts is the hard part and can make you feel stupid for jabbing.x_x (I got absolutely destroyed by his Luigi in a previous game so its hard to shake it off and remember your practical options going into a set with that fear)

Once I feel more comfortable in the MK MU I probably won't be so quick to exhaust my DJ (you'd think this would've stuck from Brawl), right now it's just a part of feeling like I need to go hard for whatever damage I can get on him because of his huge threat of Uair chaining you and killing you with upB at 60% or something...what can be done to not fall into his setups or to hopefully escape the Uairs? Do you (or anyone reading this) know if it's at all possible to DI up and away from them or something similar like that when without a DJ?

Thanks again heaps for the feedback, going to save this. I should be playing him again tomorrow at a meet so hopefully I can put this all into practice, and we'll see how it goes.

After all this time I'm still bad at laying out my paragraphs/writing form in general and replying to critique :') Like, it's sort of dotty and doesn't flow very well, if that makes sense.

edit: (not that this post needs to go on for longer)

Watching my sets vs Empire again, what's our best option against Lucario when he's jumping and Breversing with Aura Sphere charge other than eggs so you don't get caught up in it and get Usmashed? Think I said something about this in another thread, but I used to be able to Nair out of it every time without fail but it doesn't seem to work anymore. (I'm thinking the Lucario player is just acting out of Aura Sphere charge faster now)
We might be able to airdodge before the Usmash but I'll have to test this out tomorrow too, does anyone have any input or knowledge on this?

I'm usually calm in the matchup for the rest of it, but this technique seems to be his best way of killing us so it's almost basically a game decider.

 

[Delta-cod]

I would never take MK to lylat, but I was expecting him to go Luigi and he banned Smashville and something else (can't remember what), so I basically ran out of stages throughout our sets. (hence Castle Siege and Delfino...)

Ahhh, I see. I can see how you'd get stuck with the stage/character traps that Ghost seems to be able to take advantage of, then. That's rough. =/

It's funny because I've been told to work on my defense before and I figure getting grabbed out of my shield by MK at kill % is better than being dash attacked into upB, but as you say, Yoshi really is better off at just swatting him away huh...

At kill percents I think staying in shield is the right choice for the most part. If you're really in a position where you're forced into a defensive option, I'd rather leave myself open to only the nonlethal choice, since it gives you more time on your current stock to get into better spots and eventually win. But if you've got time and space, I think swatting is superior.

I think you're right in saying that Nair OOS should be alright for repelling him, I just have a bad experience of my falling Nairs getting shielded and punished hard. (yet MKs fastfall Nair you get no time to punish if they don't use it too early @_@)

Well, you shouldn't be falling with Nair into his shield when you're Nairing him OoS, y'know? Ideally you're hitting him with the initial hitbox, close to the ground, then rising with the rest of the animation. If you miss you need to land, but you definitely should be moving away from him at that point.

The Bair landings were intended to hopefully buy me some time by poking him, though it's not nearly as effective against small characters like MK since you can't really land the multi hit, yet I still went for it. :s It's probably not that great on grounded opponents at all.

I'd say it's almost worthless against grounded opponents. And since MK should be sharking you from the ground, well...

A lot of my being scared comes from past negative experiences against these characters and not knowing what to do, trying too hard to not let the past repeat itself and falling into a kill setup, despite how most setups rely on grabs which are beaten by well timed jabs-knowing when to jab and not get shielded then grabbed despite your efforts is the hard part and can make you feel stupid for jabbing.x_x (I got absolutely destroyed by his Luigi in a previous game so its hard to shake it off and remember your practical options going into a set with that fear)

This is all really understandable, and really the only thing I can tell you here is "Get over it." You can't just play scared all the time, because scared players are easy to bait and read. You've gotta let those past sets go and just focus on kicking his ass here. I don't think anyone is judging you for taking second place all the time anyways, so just play for yourself!

Once I feel more comfortable in the MK MU I probably won't be so quick to exhaust my DJ (you'd think this would've stuck from Brawl), right now it's just a part of feeling like I need to go hard for whatever damage I can get on him because of his huge threat of Uair chaining you and killing you with upB at 60% or something...what can be done to not fall into his setups or to hopefully escape the Uairs? Do you (or anyone reading this) know if it's at all possible to DI up and away from them or something similar like that when without a DJ?

I figured you have more experience than I do, but have you tried SDI on the single hits? It used to be a thing back in Brawl, used to avoid the Uair chains, so hopefully it could work now. I know DI has been kinda gimped in this game, but if you can SDI up and away hard, you might get time to escape. In the mean time, I still advise against going so hard. That extra 12% or so isn't worth the possibility of getting beat, then eating an entire Uair chain + follow up.

Watching my sets vs Empire again, what's our best option against Lucario when he's jumping and Breversing with Aura Sphere charge other than eggs so you don't get caught up in it and get Usmashed? Think I said something about this in another thread, but I used to be able to Nair out of it every time without fail but it doesn't seem to work anymore. (I'm thinking the Lucario player is just acting out of Aura Sphere charge faster now)
We might be able to airdodge before the Usmash but I'll have to test this out tomorrow too, does anyone have any input or knowledge on this?

I'm usually calm in the matchup for the rest of it, but this technique seems to be his best way of killing us so it's almost basically a game decider.

If Air dodge isn't working, have you tried Nair/DJ away?

 

[GSM_Dren]

From a tourney over a week ago:

WSF vs K0rean
LF vs K0rean
LQF vs SupermanNinja
LSF vs ZekkenB
(0:35) LM is a nuisance to play against because of his ground game, but can be overlooked once he gets knocked off stage.
GF vs DarkMusician

Did alright and got 2nd. Its a pretty even matchup between myself and K0rean, sometimes I sweep him and other times I get swept lol. Fox is really good at keeping yoshi on tilt in a match. Luigi is also a pain in the butt as well T,T I made several mistakes of rolling and air dodging into the ground. I need to work on using grounded dodge more frequently instead of just trying to shield or jump away all the time.

 

[Lukingordex]

Thanks so much for this huge feedback Delta, this is huge.

I would never take MK to lylat, but I was expecting him to go Luigi and he banned Smashville and something else (can't remember what), so I basically ran out of stages throughout our sets. (hence Castle Siege and Delfino...)

So your guys actually do the stage strike before choosing characters?
If i'm not mistaken the normal rules is that the players have to choose characters before striking stages...

 

[Nikes]

So your guys actually do the stage strike before choosing characters?
If i'm not mistaken the normal rules is that the players have to choose characters before striking stages...

Apparently not...that would be so nice when you're playing against someone who plays every top tier. It's actually mentally exhausting thinking what to ban or where to go when they have such a wide spread of characters, especially when you can't go to basic, balanced, good stages where your risk of dying super early isn't as big of a threat.

Quoting from our tournament series event on Facebook:

Spoiler

SET PROCEDURE:
1. Players will Rock-Paper-Scissors for port priority/first ban and will stay in those ports for the set
2. Both players choose their characters for the first game. A double-blind pick may be requested by either player.
3. Players strike a stage from the Starter Stage List each and the match will be played on the remaining stage.
4. The winner of the previous game is allowed to ban 1 stage the opponent can not pick in the next game. (Does not apply during bo5 Sets)
5. The loser of the previous game chooses a stage from the Starter or Counterpick Stage List. Neither player may select a stage that they have won on previously in the set without their opponent's permission.(DSR)
6. The winner of the previous game chooses their character.
7. The loser of the previous game chooses their character.
8. Steps 5-7 are repeated as necessary.

 

[Delta-cod]

I thought this procedure was standard everywhere?