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Yoshi Theater: video thread

muddykips

muddykips

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it was kind of hard to watch that game of smashville. whenever he was on the platform at the far end of the stage, you would either throw eggs at him or jump at him head-on and try to land a fair; the problem with this is, he learned to just shield your fair approaches (instead of jumping around like he did at the beginning), and as for eggs, you were standing in the perfect spot for him to just throw bombs back at you. it would have been better to run underneath him, or at least at an angle where he can't do anything; that way he's forced to either sit in shield or abandon the platform.

as for battlefield, i just wouldn't have chosen that stage. static platforms means he can camp under them nonstop, and there's not much yoshi can do to safely get in besides maybe SHAD uair / nair, since the platforms heavily restrict your options.
the only advice i think i could give would be to sit on the top platform if the opponent is doing that? that way, they would voluntarily leave their safe zone to try and land an uair on you or something, which you could just shield. even though it's not technically a good place to be, being on top platform loosens up your opponent.

also this is unrelated, but watching him popoff after running the timer like that pissed me off, lol.
 
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Delta-cod

Delta-cod

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lolreconlol said:
I beat them a few times, but thought it would be more helpful to show a loss.

http://youtu.be/bsC04KA3_YQ
Click to expand...
There are two main problems here:

1) You only ever hold TOWARDS your opponent. In neutral? Jump towards opponent and Fair. Got hit? Hold towards the opponent and drift back in to go for another Fair. Your gameplay is linear, and it lacks any sort of attempt at mindgames, reading, spacing, or nuance, really. Full on, mindless aggro gets STOMPED by good players who just know how to shield, really.

2) You never GRAB. You used Egg Lay about 3 times. If you're going to be throwing aerials on someone's shield forever, you gotta learn to mix it up with a grab option. Otherwise you just lose to shield. Forever.

In short, you need to chill out with your play. Facerolling is a pretty low ceiling, don't get stuck on that level of play. You gotta start thinking more.
 
Delta-cod

Delta-cod

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AirJordans said:
http://youtu.be/SmVdz_usMU4

Hey guys it's been a while! How can I play smarter against super good Sonics?

PS - any egg roll was a misinput :(
Click to expand...
So, it's hard to make a lot of statements about this match because it was done online. Here's what I've got:

Too many eggs in neutral -- Sonic doesn't really care about eggs in neutral. He's too fast and the starting hop of his Side B goes through them anyways. You didn't use them much past the beginning, which was good of you.

Too much weird Egg Lay stuff -- You ended up way low/deep with some strange B-reverse/Turnaround Egg Lay stuff off stage during your first stock. I dunno what you were going for, but in one case you were recovering (1:10) and the other case Sonic was nowhere near you (1:24).

Too much trying to force your way back to stage control -- During your last stock, you were getting absolutely destroyed, which happens sometimes. The problem is that you got too antsy and kept trying to swing Fair/Nair/Down-B in order to get back down. That's basically the WORST thing you can do. Those are easy to punish options and don't really help you get back to neutral. Aim for the ledge, the Smashville platform, whatever, just don't keep forcing your way through awful situations. Resets can be a step-by-step process. Hit the ledge, which gives you back a jump + some I-frames, then go from there.

Also, your play was really rigid looking, but I guess that was just wifi lag.

Retoman said:
https://www.twitch.tv/vsgc/v/55061311?t=00h05m36s
Match I got on stream
I really should come out to more weeklies

EDIT: Also critiques would be appreciated
Click to expand...
So you seem to be doing a lot of things right, which is awesome. Here's what I noticed:

You tried to Egg Lay out of disadvantage a bunch -- It still works (sorta), but Egg Lay's start up is kinda slow. It's a great way to keep people out if you have the time to start it up, but a lot of the time MK was already on top of you when you started the move. It's too late at that point, and you did get punished for it. Just something to keep in mind when getting rushed down.

Game 1 -- You fished for the kill REALLY hard when you were already sitting on a stock lead, and you'd already dealt 100+ damage. There's no need to fish for the kill there, your stock is more important. You kept doing weird stuff like jab1 on shield > Usmash, which is just... bad. Don't get impatient, you had such a strong lead and you almost lost it all.

Game 2 -- Not gonna lie, I've watched this game 5 times now and I still haven't pinpointed exactly what went wrong. Your punishes weren't exactly optimal, but he punished the hell out of you, with the death combo and a jusssssst reaching shuttle loop to end the game. You got punished for a missed Dash Grab, Dash Attack, and Pivot Grab, as well as a weird Jab1 on shield > Usmash whiff.

Dash Grab/Attack are great for catching landings, but against characters with multiple jumps (like MK) they're much riskier and generally not worth going for, imo. Pivot Grab should really just be avoided like the plague (although I see why you went for it there, it wasn't unreasonable, the move just is baaaaaad). Again, Jab > Usmash is a hit confirm, don't go for the Usmash unless you have the Jab connect.

Game 3 -- Another great showing, but holy **** that Egg Roll almost made me cry. Please be careful. @_@
 
Pixel_

Pixel_

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EDIT: This is Pivot Landing

Description: Like usual, I don't know how helpful this tech will be; I just randomly did it on For Glory and tried to find out what happened. What you basically do is do a Fair, then crouch backwards. To do this, you first autocancel Fair, then turn around, then crouch. This makes a notable fade back, though since Fair is already safe on shield, I'm not sure what you could use it for other than making an easier transition to backwards crawling while staying a safe distance away. Actually, depending on how useful backwards crawling is, this might be pretty useful, but we'll see.
You could probably do this without the Fair (I'll test this out soon), but I'm sure you could do more useful things out of a hop like that (e.g. Neutral B).
 
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Nikes

Nikes

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Pixel_ said:
Have you guys seen this yet?
Click to expand...
This just came up in my Twitter feed today, I was super impressed with Squerks Yoshi going against ESAM's Pika and making it so tight, but the Yoshi ditto was just ouch. He probably hasn't played the ditto enough, it's a very weird thing to get used to so I don't blame him for the turnout. (Usually in my experience and from what I've seen, the first to get the kill in a Yoshi ditto wins because they can hold onto their stock easily enough)

I'm getting super anxious about my ditto MM with ESAM now as the date approaches rapidly ._.
 
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phili

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So I had never seen anyone do this in any youtube video or twitch stream before, so it made me wonder if people knew about it. Anyway, I decided to make a video about it. Check it out if you're interested in killing people with fair > down b.

 
Sinister Slush

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I've done that by mistake once like manyyyyyyyyy months back, like month 1 or 2 of Wii u release but like many combos. Heat of the moment and not really paying attention to notice it until others point it out.

This is actually bretty cool, nice vid on it.
 
DJlive

DJlive

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I think one of the main reasons this isn't done is because down b is pretty punishable if your opponent DIs away or tech rolls

But here are things your opponent can do not covered here 1. Tech: timing dependent. If down b timed during tech, opponent can punish second hit with a good aerial or shield then punish. If timed post tech, good guaranteed kill. 2. Tech roll: roll distance dependent. Most likely going to be punished by opponent. 3. DI away: air speed dependent. Might not be as punishable, unless your opponent has really good air speed.

Best to test against mus to see if safe or punishable

But dude, if opponent shields and you do this, it might get you a shield break!!! If they shield grab, you'd probably just get out of it.

Related, is dthrow downb a true combo?
 
phili

phili

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DJlive said:
I think one of the main reasons this isn't done is because down b is pretty punishable if your opponent DIs away or tech rolls

But here are things your opponent can do not covered here 1. Tech: timing dependent. If down b timed during tech, opponent can punish second hit with a good aerial or shield then punish. If timed post tech, good guaranteed kill. 2. Tech roll: roll distance dependent. Most likely going to be punished by opponent. 3. DI away: air speed dependent. Might not be as punishable, unless your opponent has really good air speed.

Best to test against mus to see if safe or punishable

But dude, if opponent shields and you do this, it might get you a shield break!!! If they shield grab, you'd probably just get out of it.

Related, is dthrow downb a true combo?
Click to expand...
There is enough time before hitstun wears off to react to the missed tech. Therefore, you don't press down b until you see that they can get hit by it, and you will never get punished. Also, dthrow does not combo into down b as far as i can tell
 
DJlive

DJlive

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I tested this and it also depends on how good you auto cancel and the character. Like say Mario has a very small window for it to become true, and depending on Di, you might need to reverse.
 
Nikes

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That's really neat dude, great vid. :) I get a lot of Fair's into DownB when the Fair doesn't pop them up, but I don't use it while they're in the air nearly enough.
 
Pixel_

Pixel_

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My second egg toss guide.
Description: Follow-up to my other badly edited video (https://youtu.be/zc8s6mSkodY), here's a quicker version of how to do each angle. Tell me whether or not you want me to post this on Smashboards; it's pretty basic information, I think, so I don't see any reason why I should.

Frame Trap: A trap where the opponent can't win the situation due to the frames of their options (i.e. how long they take to do certain things)

Here's the situation: the opponent is in the air, and lost their jump. You throw a Strong Back egg at them. They either don't airdodge and get hit by the egg, or they do air dodge, which you can punish with a Uair. This doesn't work if the opponent has a character specific move, obviously.

I also forgot to mention that Weak Forward toss can frame trap in a similar way with Fair when the opponent is offstage.

Also, when approaching opponents, I usually do a Weak Forward toss in the air because it's almost a trap, too. If they shield the egg, you can beat out their shield with Neutral B, and if they get hit, you can combo into Fair. You can usually react to whether or not they get hit, so if they dodge, you don't have to do anything.

lol this description is getting pretty long, so I'll just say "Experiment!"
 
DJlive

DJlive

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Clean video. I like using up tosses as pressure so you can kinda control their landing. Weak back tosses work also as a grab breaker. You put that as a shield for yourself so you won't be comboed. Strong back toss works to hinder your opponent from recovering while you recover, making your own recovery safer.
 
Arbitation

Arbitation

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HI GUYS

Long time listener, first time caller.

I have a few sets to share with you!

This one, I feel like I was playing the ditto pretty well. Overall I just felt like I was utilising his moveset more effectively (see: mixing it up). Unfortunately I eat a fair spike super hard, because (spoiler) I used my eggs to recover within fair range!


Also super unfortunate but something I find entirely ironic is that death in the 2nd set... If it wasn't clear, I was going to downb to the ledge, but my DJ armor ended stopping a fair that also put my spacing waaaaay off. It's not obvious in the video, but that down-b is buffered from before the fair hits me. A useful lesson about DJ armor and buffering, at least!

*2:17:30

Anyways, I'd appreciate any feedback on that set and the following, where I get to vs. one of the best players in my region on Stream. I've only watched it back once myself, and yes I know it's awfully painful to see me jump OOS so many times in that Mewtwo match.......

Loving all the tech/strat videos that people are making. Let's make Yoshi great again.
 
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Nikes

Nikes

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Arbitation said:
HI GUYS

Long time listener, first time caller.

I have a few sets to share with you!

This one, I feel like I was playing the ditto pretty well. Overall I just felt like I was utilising his moveset more effectively (see: mixing it up). Unfortunately I eat a fair spike super hard, because (spoiler) I used my eggs to recover within fair range!


Also super unfortunate but something I find entirely ironic is that death in the 2nd set... If it wasn't clear, I was going to downb to the ledge, but my DJ armor ended stopping a fair that also put my spacing waaaaay off. It's not obvious in the video, but that down-b is buffered from before the fair hits me. A useful lesson about DJ armor and buffering, at least!

*2:17:30

Anyways, I'd appreciate any feedback on that set and the following, where I get to vs. one of the best players in my region on Stream. I've only watched it back once myself, and yes I know it's awfully painful to see me jump OOS so many times in that Mewtwo match.......

Loving all the tech/strat videos that people are making. Let's make Yoshi great again.
Click to expand...
Happy to watch the sets soon, but quick question are you going to BAM 8? If so I'd be happy to play you in the ditto! :)
 
Arbitation

Arbitation

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Yeah man, can't wait to meet all my fellow Yoshi friends!

Confidence is pretty low for me at the moment - I took a 4.5 month trip and since I've been back I've really been struggling to find consistency, which is something I felt like I was achieving in the weeks before leaving. Just Yoshi main things I guess...
 
Nikes

Nikes

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Arbitation said:
Yeah man, can't wait to meet all my fellow Yoshi friends!

Confidence is pretty low for me at the moment - I took a 4.5 month trip and since I've been back I've really been struggling to find consistency, which is something I felt like I was achieving in the weeks before leaving. Just Yoshi main things I guess...
Click to expand...
Personally speaking from experience, I find confidence goes a really long way in playing Yoshi, and it could well be the deciding factor of a set's outcome. Try and find your flow again, practice your tech skill too, hopefully your consistency and confidence comes back soon. (I suffer from low confidence a lot so I understand completely :( )
 
KenboCalrissian

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Arbitation said:
Yeah man, can't wait to meet all my fellow Yoshi friends!

Confidence is pretty low for me at the moment - I took a 4.5 month trip and since I've been back I've really been struggling to find consistency, which is something I felt like I was achieving in the weeks before leaving. Just Yoshi main things I guess...
Click to expand...
I think every Yoshi main goes through this period moreso than other characters - it's like a curse. He's easy to pick up, so you're tempted to think "Man I'm great at this character, why am I not placing higher," and then that eats away at you for a while.

For me, that feeling lasted a good 8 months or so, until I came full circle to the same tournament I first placed well in a year ago. I remembered I originally entered to have fun - placement meant nothing to me since I wasn't competitive a year ago, I was just playing because I love Smash, and specifically Yoshi as a character outside of Smash. Focusing on that helped me place higher than I had a year ago, and there were more competitors this time.

Bottom line, don't forget to have fun. If you wanted higher placements for less work, there's $5.99 characters you could switch to, but there's a reason you haven't done that already.
 
Pixel_

Pixel_

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Made two videos about useless Yoshi techs. Not sure if they even classify as techs.
(turn on subtitles!)
Description: Dunno if it'll be helpful or not, but it looks interesting. Basically, if you do 2 Egg Tosses in the air, the third one will let you do a grounded toss after a ledge jump.

(no subtitles)
Description: I'm assuming this property works for any wall, but not for things like Pacman's hydrant. Not much to do with it other than Ledge Drop into Egg Roll (shown near the end).
 
Pixel_

Pixel_

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Stuck in a bit of a rut, can I have some critique? This is a pretty casual game, I'm planning on getting more footage when I can:
 
E

ElMoro995

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phili said:
So I had never seen anyone do this in any youtube video or twitch stream before, so it made me wonder if people knew about it. Anyway, I decided to make a video about it. Check it out if you're interested in killing people with fair > down b.

Click to expand...
Even if the training mode's counter says that it's true, they can airdodge between the fair and the downb
 
phili

phili

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ElMoro995 said:
Even if the training mode's counter says that it's true, they can airdodge between the fair and the downb
Click to expand...
No they definitely can't. I've tested it with friends who I've told to mash air dodge. It's a true combo in certain % ranges on most of the cast, if not the entire cast
 
KenboCalrissian

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Can confirm, I've pulled this off before. I've also killed with Dthrow > DownB, and it works around the same range as this, maybe a little higher. I haven't labbed it out yet to see whether it's true or I just got lucky (both occasions I can remember, it wasn't against a very good opponent, so it's very possible it's not a thing), or if it's limited in who it works on. If it is higher, it'd be real nice if it's just outside the range of Fair > DownB so it extends our threat range a bit.

Even funnier though is falling softspot Nair > sh Fair off ledge at 20%. I got two kills like this yesterday at my last tournament (worked against Pacman and Meta Knight)
 
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phili

phili

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ElMoro995 said:
Watch this from about 2:00
Click to expand...
As noted in this video, bounce teching only works when being hit out of the air. If you land the fair while your opponent is on the ground, the down b true combos (and this is what I tested, as it is the most common situation). Cool piece of tech to know about though
 
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