Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Deleted member]

For fox, i play fox a lil bit(i kinda suck with him, but meh =P). Id say its probably 5:5. Yoshis bair is pretty good at keeping fox away, and fox also doesnt have anything to really stop bair approaches if he starts camping. Fox can gimp yoshi really easily, and can combo him well, but yoshi combo just as well back. Fox is good at killing wiht his usmash, and his other 2 will usually just put u far enough to be gimped by teh shine. Sorry if im a lil vague.

 

[Mmac]

Also, this has been bugging me for a while. I don't really see why people really push yoshi's chaingrab as a huge benefitting factor. I hear things like, "Yeah, yoshi can't do so and so but he can chaingrab so the matchup is at least x:x because of that." Realistically, his chaingrab usually only grabs 2 or 3 times due to his slide and each grab only adds about 3-4 damage.

It's not really about Damaging, but rather pushing him over the edge and gaining control of the fight.

Plus the throw at the end does 8%.

 

[Gindler]

Yeah those IC vs. yoshi videos were painful. It's like apparently Bair and tilts didn't exist...that's why most people think yoshi stinks.

 

[Mmac]

Hmmm..... There's been talk that you can break out of a grab by pressing A in a 1/10th of a Second after you have been grabbed. Hasn't been proved, but there's alot of talk.

The good thing is that it doesn't affect us, because all character release in the air! But one character might be largely affected by this. Wario. If Wario can break out without us able to chew, then it becomes a "Stalling Chaingrab" and Illegal to do

How do you think this will affect characters like Dedede and Ice Climbers, who's primary game practically depends on Chaingrabs, or Characters like Falco who uses CG's as a strategy, but doesn't depend on it?

Also if true, it's going to help Ness/Lucas alot from that whole "Deathgrab" thing, who can cause a stalling situation

 

[Kiwikomix]

I don't know if the grab-break can really be done consistently. For one, you actually have to see the grab coming. But if it does become a factor, it's not really that important since Wario will just be changed to a neutral again.
And here's another thing that I found out that probably won't change much... did you guys know that egg roll goes through Snake's Nikita? So if he uses that, you have a guaranteed approach.

 

[Mmac]

I don't know if the grab-break can really be done consistently. For one, you actually have to see the grab coming. But if it does become a factor, it's not really that important since Wario will just be changed to a neutral again.
And here's another thing that I found out that probably won't change much... did you guys know that egg roll goes through Snake's Nikita? So if he uses that, you have a guaranteed approach.

It could work with them because You can just go with the rhythm of the grab and escape after the 2nd or onwards grab.

Also another thing is that Yoshi's DownB goes straight through Snake's Usmash's Grenade without talking damage

 

[Mmac]

Where were we?.....

.... Oh yes! Diddy! Seems like the general vote is for 5:5 right now. Anyone else have anything to add?

We should look back at DK for a minute. He seems to be a bit tougher than what we agreed on. He seems more like a 4:6 than a 5:5. Thoughts?

Also I'm going with Mario should be at 5:5. I haven't seen what the Cape or FLUDD can do yet against Yoshi's recovery. FLUDD seems to have little effect on his double jump at all

 

[Bwett]

Where were we?.....

.... Oh yes! Diddy! Seems like the general vote is for 5:5 right now. Anyone else have anything to add?

We should look back at DK for a minute. He seems to be a bit tougher than what we agreed on. He seems more like a 4:6 than a 5:5. Thoughts?

Also I'm going with Mario should be at 5:5. I haven't seen what the Cape or FLUDD can do yet against Yoshi's recovery. FLUDD seems to have little effect on his double jump at all

With Mario, Yoshi's horizontal aerial movement works horribly against him. When recovering, if you are trying to sweet spot the edge with DJ, you will get caped in the other direction at full horizontal speed. From that point, its pretty difficult to get back since you have to wait to have some kind of movement back towards the stage to use eggs. Of course, if you are careful and just air dodge or recover vertically with no horizontal movement, then that gimp is completely useless. Haven't played mario much. I just know about his cape lol.

 

[Fingerp@ss]

With Mario, Yoshi's horizontal aerial movement works horribly against him. When recovering, if you are trying to sweet spot the edge with DJ, you will get caped in the other direction at full horizontal speed. From that point, its pretty difficult to get back since you have to wait to have some kind of movement back towards the stage to use eggs. Of course, if you are careful and just air dodge or recover vertically with no horizontal movement, then that gimp is completely useless. Haven't played mario much. I just know about his cape lol.

Darkmusician's mario is very good and after a few rounds I found that its best to try and get back to the stage from high up since the cape just turns Yoshi's DJ around. Its really bad if Yoshi is below or at the level of the ledge cause a good Mario user will just try to rush out cape you right away. My best bet is not to challenge that and to DJ early enough to get above mario, if he is going for the cape, and you can also use the egg toss to get more horizontal distance float over to a safe landing.

Even if you end up being reversed from the cape during the DJ, and depending on when, Yoshi's vertical momentum should launch you high enough to float back to the stage.

 

[Mmac]

Doing some testing with the Cape and FLUDD, I came up with some answers.

1) The FLUDD actually HELPS Yoshi! Unlike most opponents, When the water hit's Yoshi, it makes him go up! So Mario vs. Yoshi, the FLUDD is completely useless in this fight

2) The Cape is also beneficial in most cases. One thing during the DJ, the Cape actually gives it EXTRA HEIGHT! You can cancel out the momentum by slamming the stick to the opposite direction, then back towards the stage after the cape effects are done (Which only lasts exactly one second). Only when Yoshi has already used his Double Jump, then it becomes a huge threat.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Diddy definitely has an advantage over Yoshi. At LEAST 6:4 in his favor.

Banana spam and glide toss abuse makes it impossible to get any eggs off, and Diddy is a champ at gimping Yoshi's recovery with his spike or even horizontally with his Fair. He's quicker, kills at about the same %, has actual COMBOS, and is overall a better character than Yoshi.

 

[Mmac]

Diddy definitely has an advantage over Yoshi. At LEAST 6:4 in his favor.

Banana spam and glide toss abuse makes it impossible to get any eggs off, and Diddy is a champ at gimping Yoshi's recovery with his spike or even horizontally with his Fair. He's quicker, kills at about the same %, has actual COMBOS, and is overall a better character than Yoshi.

I will agree that it slopes to Diddy alittle bit, but I haven't yet been hit with his Dair spike yet. I always manage to airdodge in time. He's not that much quicker than Yoshi, and I've never really seen any Combos from Diddy other than a Dash Attack to Something.

But what's a Glide Toss?


Also Samus just made a Matchup Topic. They listed Yoshi as 45-55 us.

I somewhat agree. A good Samus player is pretty mean. I did suggested a 6:4 a few pages back too

 

[Deleted member]

*Facepalm* Play better diddys(and robs, and peaches for that matter). But in case u actually do know what it is and not the name: A glide toss is where you press A at a certain time in your roll which makes u throw something while sliding and keeping the momentum of the roll. A key part of peach, robs, and diddys projectile game. Yoshi cant glide toss cuz of his gay roll =(

Also, diddy is 4:6 and ike is 4:6 imo(try gimping a good ike, its really hard, most dont use side b).

 

[Chaco]

I think the Yoshi ditto match-up should be brough into order, I think it should be 10:0, I mean either way a Yoshi will win. XD

 

[Mmac]

*Facepalm* Play better diddys(and robs, and peaches for that matter). But in case u actually do know what it is and not the name: A glide toss is where you press A at a certain time in your roll which makes u throw something while sliding and keeping the momentum of the roll. A key part of peach, robs, and diddys projectile game. Yoshi cant glide toss cuz of his gay roll =(

I knew what it was. Just didn't know the name (Stupid name. How would you know it has to do with Item Projectiles?) Also what was wrong with the Peach's and ROB's I've played? They looked like they knew what they were doing <_<.....

Also, diddy is 4:6 and ike is 4:6 imo(try gimping a good ike, its really hard, most dont use side b).

I'm thinking that too with Ike... But something is telling me otherwise.... It's sometimes hard to get hit's with my powerful moves on Yoshi when I'm playing with my Ike (Ike is my secondary. But I miss Roy so much ;_; ). About his recovery, if the Ike is far away, then he pretty much has to use his SideB to recover

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I think the Yoshi ditto match-up should be brough into order, I think it should be 10:0, I mean either way a Yoshi will win. XD

This man is wise...

 

[Deleted member]

Well if ike is TOO far then he can be gimped, his side b is easy to jump in front and airdodge. But his fair is just so amazingly good against yoshi, i played one in a tourny today, i won but barely. Had to spam alot.

Also, i shouldnt make assumptions about the people u play sowwy =(

 

[Mmac]

I think we should do .5's actually. It will be alot more accurate for some character that we are divided on (Such as currently Wario, Mario, and Falcon, and characters we heavily debated on such as MetaKnight)

And I don't think Pit is completely even, and same with Diddy, it slants towards them a bit

 

[Shiri]

Mario is for the ****ing lose WTF

 

[Deleted member]

I think pit is slanted towards yoshi personally.

 

[Chaco]

This man is wise...

Ty. XD

10Char

 

[Sharky]

Link beats Yoshi more than Toon Link?

This I cannot believe, someone say it isn't so.

 

[Depster]

I guess its cause link is a lot heavier an stuff.
anyway, welcome back yoshinator, haven't seen you around quite so much =0

 

[Mmac]

Link beats Yoshi more than Toon Link?

This I cannot believe, someone say it isn't so.

He's got better range and a better projectile. It makes Yoshi very hard to approach compared to Toon Link.

And welcome back

 

[Kiwikomix]

I'll keep Diddy as even for now, but the .5s thing is starting to seem a lot more necessary.

And I don't really think Ike should be 4-6. The only things he has on Yoshi are range and power... Yoshi has speed, combos, punishment, projectiles and gimps. Also, the CG is hard to pull off but it gets Ike off the stage, where he has a lot of trouble.

Edit: Zamus anyone?

 

[Chaco]

mm...Zamus, I'll pass until another post.

 

[Mmac]

mm...Zamus, I'll pass until another post.

I don't know much about her either, other than she's hot, and the Zamus mains listed as Yoshi as Even 5:5

 

[Deleted member]

And I don't really think Ike should be 4-6. The only things he has on Yoshi are range and power... Yoshi has speed, combos, punishment, projectiles and gimps. Also, the CG is hard to pull off but it gets Ike off the stage, where he has a lot of trouble.

The cg doesnt work i think. I was tryin to do it in a tourny yesterday, meh. I could list all the things D3 has over yoshi and the matchup is 2-8, if u wanna base it on what they have over eachother =P Its about all of the options each character has.Yoshi has a hard time comboing because ike outprioritizes ur uair with dair, plus starting it is tough. Fair is the main problem, its such a good move against yoshi. If they are hit too far, they can be gimped, but most of yoshis power moves hit them up as well, so often they can mkae it back with side b. Up b is gimpable but its hard cuz if u miss u get spiked and then spiked by ikes dair if u try to come back -.- Just my thoughts, at least 4.5-5.5 tho.

 

[Shiri]

Yoshi counters Zero Suit Samus. The end.

 

[hugglebunny]

Burntsocks says(its a new game):

Wut?

 

[EggZavier]

Pikachu's neutral against Yoshi.

 

[Jump_Man]

Pikachu's neutral against Yoshi.

No. Pikachu might be one of Yoshi's worst matchups.

 

[Kiwikomix]

'I'm starting to feel that DK is 4:6 now too. I just had no idea fsmash killed Yoshi at such low percentages (like 75%) and had so much range and came out so quickly.

 

[Deleted member]

No. Pikachu might be one of Yoshi's worst matchups.

Hes right, yoshi vs pika is pretty even. Jabbing jolts is easy offline or if u get the timing online. You can combo pika pretty well. Pika also has crappy tilts, so his quick ground game is lacking, while yours isnt (tho fsmash is pretty annoying). His dsmash is annoying but extremely easy to DI out of(to the point where i never get caught in it unless im asleep, which im usually not when im smashing =P). Thunder is gay tho =P

Also, i agree with 4:6 Dk at least. More like 3.5:6.5. DK beats yoshis air and ground game, and outkills, and gimps him, and owns him in general,

 

[Scala]

I played a good marth today and holy hell that is one terrible matchup. Luigi also kills at ridiculous low percentages..

After playing a ton of metaknights over the last 2 days (like... 20 hours of brawl total) I think you guys are crazy for saying it's an even matchup. If the MK knows what he's doing, you won't ever get your combos running.

 

[AzSvFeZ]

As far as the pika match ups go, I'd have to say 8:2 against yoshi.

 

[Deleted member]

LOLOLOLOLOL wut.

 

[Sharky]

Yoshi counters Zero Suit Samus. The end.

This I have to agree with.

I still think that toon link is harder than link, mostly because I think TL's projectiles are better than link's. Ah well, save that discussion for a rainy day.

and thanks for the wb's guys =) I always seem to have a different internet problem, it's really bugging me. >.<

 

[Mmac]

As far as the pika match ups go, I'd have to say 8:2 against yoshi.

Wow, looks like we need to bring out the scientific research on this one. You gotta teach me how to get out of his Dsmash Socks. I can't get out if my life depended on it ;_;

For Luigi, I learn why I should keep my mouth shut sometimes. He can combo, and he can combo well O_o. I've been talking to big and a few others if Luigi is actually harder than Mario, but they say it's the opposite.

Marth.... Is pretty much like fighting Melee Marth, except his reduced range makes it kinda easier to get in, and his NeuB goes straight. Plus Yoshi has the tricks to help him out. He's still Marth though. You gotta pick your attacks carefully, or else you'll be beat. I say 3:7, or 3.5:6.5

MetaKnight is best if you play defencive. If you try to head into MK Straight on, you'll probably walk out as one unhappy Yoshi. If you let Him come to you, then you'll fair a much better chance. Pivot's play a major part of this battle, because they can all snag MetaKnight right out of his Specials, which then you can CG, or Release Usmash him. Don't ph33r the Tornado.

It's also one where you want to spend as much time on the ground as possible, where he's forced to use approaches which can be countered well. Only go after MK in the air if you see an opening. You can beat him sometimes with a Bair, but Uair is your best bet. Sliding Usmashes work quite well too if he's coming from the air. Tilts help alot too, due to the overall quickness of them. You want to avoid using any moves that have After Lag, or are just generally slow. The Release Grab Usmash Combo helps alot to kill MetaKnight, where it's much easier to land a pivot grab on him rather than trying to finish him with a Fsmash. Still, it still won't be a walk in the park.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

I played a good marth today and holy hell that is one terrible matchup. Luigi also kills at ridiculous low percentages..

After playing a ton of metaknights over the last 2 days (like... 20 hours of brawl total) I think you guys are crazy for saying it's an even matchup. If the MK knows what he's doing, you won't ever get your combos running.

I disagree with this. I used to think Marth was a difficult matchup too. It can be a terrible matchup if there timing is right, however, if you take advantage of the situation, egg tossing, and using your tilts can help the matchup a lot.