Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Deleted member]

Im in favor of movin bowser to 6-4. SHAD to up b is pretty much the coolest approach ever, and it gets through egg spam pretty nicely, plus bowser has big **** tilts(lol), and fire breath>recovering yoshi. His close range game beats yours, but you can cg and combo him nicely, which shifts the match in yoshis favor.

 

[Kiwikomix]

We believe so. The CF boards apparently disagree though.

@ burntsocks, and I guess everyone else: Do you guys think we finally need to break it up into .5 matchups? I've never thought it was necessary, but lots of the matchups recently have disagreed.

Edit: I believe that last comment pushes it into the majority of 6:4 on Boozer. I'll change.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, falcons pretty beastly offline when played right =P Plus he pressures yoshis shield really well =P And my last few rants about c falcon vs yoshi bein even.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I dunno, falcons pretty beastly offline when played right =P Plus he pressures yoshis shield really well =P And my last few rants about c falcon vs yoshi bein even.

I'm not too sure about the pressure thing (Sonic and Wario do it better IMO) but I'm of the opinion that ANY character can be beastly in real life tourneys.

Note: Putting Peach at a 4:6 unless there are any objections or if we decide to move to .5s.

 

[Deleted member]

Sonic does better and wario normally does but not against yoshi. Falcon and sonic both have good pressure games(sonic moreso, and ill get to the yoshi vs sonic matchup later once somebody brings it up), and falcon has some other things that sonic doesnt.

Agrees with peach.

 

[Mmac]

Sonic eh? I'll bring him up

I've played quite a few Sonics, and they're pretty mean. However he sufferers from approaches. His Spin Dashs just beg to be Pivot Grabbed, and he fairs no better just straight Dashing or Grabbing. Unless the Sonic Player has good reflexes, he's going straight into your mouth. I find that the Sonics I've face realize that Fastest, isn't fast enough. I guess experience that those approaches will be useless against Yoshi, so they will attack from the Air

Anyways, I find his Airs quite good. Nair is a waste, and Dair is easily punished, but Fair, Uair, and Bair are quite nasty. UpB works pretty well as an attack (That Spring is scary O_o), but the remaining Specials are pretty pointless against Yoshi. Homing is just too easy to see coming, and Side/Down B can be countered easily. He can do that jump out of it thing to intercept you in the air. His ground game... is actually quite lacking His tilts are pretty slow, and same with his smashes. Sonic suffers a huge problem in killing, but can punish really easily if you leave yourself open, what with his trademark speed and all. Edgeguarding Sonic is quite easy because he can only go one direction with the Spring, but he might SideB back to the stage also though. I say it's 6:4 Yoshi, but I want to see what Burnt has to say about him also.

I also want to bring up Toon Link, and Link.

Toon Link is pretty tough, but he doesn't have much of an advantage. He has a decent Ground game with good range, but not good enough. Yoshi can still get through his attacks quite easily. His Airgame is decent, but Yoshi's Bair can get through them. They're still pretty deadly, so look out for them. His Dair, can be Umbrellaed with an Straight up UpB Egg, and if he misses, he can be punished badly! His ground game is the same deal. Pretty deadly, but suffers from the same Range Problem, which Yoshi can still break though.

His projectile game is decent. His Boomerang is quite good, and same with his Bombs, and he will use them. Bow isn't really that great for spamming due to the slowness of the arrows. Edgeguarding Toon Link Physically is not really worth it, just use your eggs. You can interecpt him if he UpB's and doesn't go for the edge. Toon Link can Edgeguard good as well with his own Projectiles, so look out. I say this matchup is 4:6 in Toon Link's Favour.

Now Link. He's nasty to Yoshi! He plays the same as Toon Link, but fixs the range problem, which is a huge threat to Yoshi! Yoshi will have a much harder time approaching in both the Air and the Ground. He has faster and better projectiles which make it ever worse! Otherwise, hes about the same as his Younger Self. Only other differences is that he's Slower (But can do a Sliding Usmash, like Snake, but worse!), Can be Chaingrabbed (But just like Ike, he's tricky to grab), and can't recover very well. I say 3:7 to Link. No matter what you put Toon Link, Link will always be a Point ahead.

 

[Shiri]

I completely agree with this Link analysis.

I've played Kubuu's Brawl Link and it's quite possibly one of the scariest experiences any human can fathom. Link honestly does beat out Toon Link in most every category that matters in this matchup. Let's not forget Link's BEASTLY downsmash, it's so good!

Speaking of Links, does anybody know how to DI out of Toon Link's forward smash on the first hit? I'm being super scrub and cannot figure it out. o_0

 

[Kiwikomix]

Link I will definitely agree on. It's just far too difficult to approach him. It would be a 2:8 matchup if Yoshi didn't have such an easy time edgeguarding him. Seriously,chuck some eggs and then jump out for a dair... even if he hits you with a uair (which he probably will) he can't recover from it anyway. I think a 3:7 sounds fair.

Toon Link... I dunno. Think Link with a better recovery and easier for Yoshi to deal with. Dair isn't that hard to defeat if you think of it as Yoshi's downB. Just avoid it and capitalize on the ending lag, or toss an egg straight up. Overall this seems like a pretty easy matchup to me, because he'll have a hard time killing you, and Yoshi can approach quickly enough to negate most of his camping (not to mention that eggs cancel his projectiles). I'm all for even on this one.

Sonic I'm not sure about. It could have been in his favor, but he can't kill and he has awful priority. He's really hard to pivot grab unless you have insane reflexes. ECE's and offstage eggs murder Sonic. His recovery is too good to edgeguard, though... especially physically. Watch out for bair, because although it doesn't beat Yoshi's bair, it still is a great move. Probably Sonic's best aerial. I'm in the dark on this one, so I guess I'll wait for burntsocks too.

 

[Bwett]

Yoshi can approach quickly enough to negate most of his camping (not to mention that eggs cancel his projectiles).

True, he can cancel his projectiles, but the problem is the amount of projectiles that are coming at you. Your egg will take out his bomb, but then he has a boomerang and arrow already about to hit you. That is the biggest problem with Toon Link. Approaching is a major beyotch when toon link wants to and knows how to spam. Plus his bair owns yoshi's bair horribly. Not to mention that he has a spike that hits you while you do ECE's lol. I found that out in tournament match lol.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Yoshi: Sonic is 6:4 to Yoshi. Yoshi can camp him and for the most part his aerial game > Sonic's. B Air is almost completely safe against Sonic and in close range Yoshi can deal well because his tilts are also better then Sonic's. Sonic can spring at any time, but then it just becomes rinse and repeat. What keeps the matchup only a slight advantage is that Sonic still has a few tricks, ASC, can't be gimped and has a few high priority moves.

Sonic also relies on gimping for kills which Yoshi has no problem with (woo for heavy frames) and so you're going to be living along time until he can finally land F Smash/ B air and kill with it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Off topic: I thought this was funny

Jiggs > Yoshi- Yoshi and Jigglypuff are both very good jumpers, but Jiggs has better attacks. Her Uair is efficient in juggling Yoshi at high percentages.

I want to thank pretty much everyone who posts on this thread for avoiding the thought that two sentences and gross generalizations make a good matchup description.

 

[Mmac]

He's really hard to pivot grab unless you have insane reflexes.

His Spin Dashes are actually surprisingly easy to snag. Infact I find it easier to grab faster opponents rather than slower ones. I actually find Sonic quite easy to gimp if you learn the distance he goes off the Spring. You can easily set up sonic for a Fair Spike or a Uair Kill if he doesn't go for the edge

 

[Scala]

Even though link is such a bad matchup for yoshi, thankfully we won't need to deal with it very often since Link is almost never used competitively.

 

[Shiri]

Ironic, yes?

 

[Kiwikomix]

Even though link is such a bad matchup for yoshi, thankfully we won't need to deal with it very often since Link is almost never used competitively.

LoL, neither is Yoshi.

So we seem pretty set on a 3:7 for Link, but Sonic and Toonie are still pretty foggy. Can we come to a general consensus on them?

 

[Blistering Speed]

Im a firm believer that Yoshi is 6:4 with Sonic, leaning more towards 7:3 then to 5:5. I know alot about Sonic (former main) and Yoshi most definatly has the advantage. See my post above for reasons.

Toonie is 4:6. His projectiles>yours, his airgame is...different to yours but he outmatches you in most instances. Tink however finds it difficult to land a KO, keeping this from being 7:3. He can camp you, but Yoshi can still approach him and go toe to toe in close combat.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I was going to say that the Sonic matchup was even. Then I realized that Yoshi outprioritizes him in everything. 6:4 sounds fine.
We're still pretty split on Toon, though. We've had one even, one 3:7 and two 4:6. I think averaging it out to 4:6 sounds fine. It's not like they aren't open for debate later anyway.

 

[Mmac]

If anyone is interested, this is what Fox had to say to Yoshi:

Yoshi - 2.5/5 (Equals 5:5)
Yoshi has no real third jump. Use this to your advantage. His eggs can be shined away with ease so those are no problem, and his egg roll, while much better now, is still easy to avoid, and has less priority than you're f-smash. His ground game is good due to his ability to d-smash out of a shield, but that is the only one you need to worry about too much. He can combo his b-air tail slaps into an f-smash sometimes though, which hurts. They are generally just basic smashes, though. The biggest thing to remember with Yoshi is that his second jump gives super armor, so you can't really attack him while he is doing it, and you sure as hell can't shine spike him. Plus he can f-air spike you if you try to get him while he has that super armor. Still, you have the almighty speed advantage; use it well. Oh, and be careful for his u-air, it is killer. 2.5/5

It hasn't been updated since May though...

 

[Deleted member]

TL is 4-6 imo. SHDA is still realyl hard to get past, his aerial game>yours and most of it arrow cancels, meaning its pretty much impossible to punish. His dair sucks tho. Once you are it, I like to stay grounded and lots of dtilts, and try to be passive aggressive, be on him all the time, but dont run into anything. More leanin towards 7-3, but 6-4 is fine, you outrange him on the ground.

Sonic i dont have enough experience, but id think itd be 4-6 cuz of sonics amazing pressure game, and no, his spin dashes arent easy to pivot grab unless its like laggy or they charge straight at u. Darn up b out of side b =P He has trouble killing, but so do u, and he doesnt really get edgeguarded, so all u can do is egg(and if hes dumb u can do the snake gimp by grabbin him out of his up b).

I agree with link, that stuff is nasty.

 

[Mmac]

Sonic i dont have enough experience, but id think itd be 4-6 cuz of sonics amazing pressure game, and no, his spin dashes arent easy to pivot grab unless its like laggy or they charge straight at u. Darn up b out of side b =P He has trouble killing, but so do u, and he doesnt really get edgeguarded, so all u can do is egg(and if hes dumb u can do the snake gimp by grabbin him out of his up b).

Hmmm. I seem to have no problem Snagging Sonic out of his Spin Dash, even against my friend in offline play, but that just might be me. It seems to be that when Sonic is spin dashing, he can do two things.

1) Go straight into my mouth. Yummy ^_^
2) Bail out by jumping out early, then follow up with a Dair, Neutral B, or UpB. Both the Dair and NeuB you should be able to Shield/Dodge in time. I guess thats what your talking about with the UpB. That Spring is evil!

He can still catch you offguard when your in the air, or about to land when you don't have enough time to snag him.

And Sonic can be edgeguarded quite well, if you can successfully judge the highest point of his Spring, where his Super Armour ends, but when he still can't control Sonic, and Intercept him there.

 

[Meta Dude]

mmac is right, a well timed grab can catch the hedgehog in his spin dash, which is a huge part of sonic's game (in my experience against him). i haven't played many sonics so i can't say what the ratio is, but i imagine at least split or 6:4.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I'm thinking we were a bit too hasty in changing IC's to Yoshi's favor. At least for me, it's just too easy to screw up.
Also, anyone want to start an analysis on Pit?

 

[Gindler]

Hmmm, well from my experiences I have an easy time with IC's. They can't move at all in the air, and once you split them up this is bad for the popo trying to get you off his nana. and splitting them up isn't the hardest thing in the world. So I'd put it at like 6:4 yoshi's favor, then again I haven't played one of those ICs mains that.

Hmmm, I haven't had much Pit experience after the first week of brawl (since most people dumped him for MK and snake). But I have played a few and they often get caught off guard when you go through arrows with the egg roll, I hate that glide attack of his and his Fsmash but other than that I don't usually have too much of a problem since he's just asking to get gimped by a dair the whole match. So like most of yoshi's matchups I'd say it's about even 4:6-6:4 range for sure =P

 

[Deleted member]

His fsmash is annoyin cuz it beats like everything u have, but yea, 5:5 sounds right.

 

[Mmac]

Ice Climbers I still stay on 6:4.

Hmm.... Pit is a tricky one. He matches Yoshi quite well in the air, but Bair beats both his Fair and his Bair (I think). On the ground, Pit has some pretty mean Smashes. His Tilts are... meh, but you still gotta look out for his Ftilt. His SideB also makes him tricky to approach. He has a great projectile, and 2 Reflectors!

His recovery is pretty good, but can actually be easily intercepted. You can take out his Glide with one well aimed Egg, which in some situations, forces him into his UpB, where you easily finish him off. However Pit can just as easily intercept you.I actually say 4:6. He's just tricky.

Also I say Marth is also 4:6. Not really much to talk about here, he's got good range on the Ground and Air, and is Fast. Only problem is that his Recovery isn't the best, his range is Nerfed just enough for Yoshi to actually fight back. Also Yoshi has teh eggs!

 

[Shiri]

If Pit didn't have that forward smash, the matchup wouldn't even exist.

Pit's one of the game's few fatties and you should take real advantage of his fastfalling nature; he eats combos like it's his job and can't really break your approaches or your consecutive hits. What Pit is really good at is setting up his own game, not beating out others' games. When in doubt against Pit, shield. Glide attack, BOTH HITS OF FORWARD SMASH (do not try to retaliate, just walk away from it or something because he'll do it again), jab series, and down smash, all of it. You can't really stay at mid range thanks to his Side+B (AYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAAHHHHHHHHHHHH), so you'll have to be in his face stuffing his moves, kinda like the ZSS matchup.

 

[Mmac]

If Pit didn't have that forward smash, the matchup wouldn't even exist.

Pit's one of the game's few fatties and you should take real advantage of his fastfalling nature; he eats combos like it's his job and can't really break your approaches or your consecutive hits.

Hmmm.... didn't know that about him, but I did notice it was fairly easy to get attacks in him. You could probably get complete control of the fight by comboing him constantly.

I say 4:6, or 5:5

 

[Kiwikomix]

Looks like I may have just been paranoid about the IC matchup. Also, go to the IC boards and watch their Yoshi vs IC vids... in all but one of them, Yoshi gets three-stocked. It's a good "what not to do" video.

A few thoughts on the Pit matchup:
I'm not too sure on the shield thing, because I hate to believe that shielding is ever Yoshi's best option (except for against Ike's smashes or similar pushback attacks). Most of the time it seems like you'd be better off just running (if you can) or double jumping out of there (if you can). Yoshi can't be comboed by the guy, so it doesn't seem like you'd be in too much trouble if you stayed in his face most of the time. On the ground, your tilts come out faster than most of his moves (and outrange them, which is a big plus). The only thing that I can see would seriously affect Yoshi's advance is that annoying sideB. I haven't tested it, but can it be jumped out of? If so, that's a very good thing for Yoshi.
DON'T throw an egg at the beginning of the match. Pit has time to both fire an arrow and reflect your egg back at you before it gets to him. The last thing you want is another projectile hindering your approach. Once you actually get to him, though, it shouldn't be too hard to get an attack in. Unfortunately, it will take a lot of hits to kill this guy, because Pit has an annoying tendency to live forever.
Edgeguarding against Pit is actually pretty easy for me so far. Glides beg to be egged or uaired, going for a dair is very safe, and dair-footstool practically forces Pit to use his upB, which he gets egged or aerialed out of again.
When you're recovering, do your best to avoid his arrows. You can usually afford to airdodge, so do so every now and then. ECE's are pretty good, because most of the time Pit will reflect them, allowing you to edge-attack him if he uses the shield or DJ -> dair from the edge if he AYAYAYAYAYAYAHs.
Not really too bad of a matchup, because Pit's biggest strengths don't really get on Yoshi's nerves. I'm leaning toward a 5:5, but I'll take a 4:6 if that's the popular consensus.

 

[Mmac]

Looks like I may have just been paranoid about the IC matchup. Also, go to the IC boards and watch their Yoshi vs IC vids... in all but one of them, Yoshi gets three-stocked. It's a good "what not to do" video.

Gross. That Yoshi is terrible. I have never seen a Yoshi that use mostly Fair's and Backwards Dair's in my life

And it seems like the popular consensus is at 5:5 right now. I'm rather surprise, but people did bring up good points

 

[Kiwikomix]

Gross. That Yoshi is terrible. I have never seen a Yoshi that use mostly Fair's and Backwards Dair's in my life

And it seems like the popular consensus is at 5:5 right now. I'm rather surprise, but people did bring up good points

It's like he didn't know bair existed. I think he hit with it once over the first two matches.
...Actually, having gone back and watched them again, he got three-stocked all three times...

 

[Deleted member]

Kiwi, shielding is your best option alot of the time. Espeicially against pits fsmash (or run away).

 

[Kiwikomix]

Does Pit's fsmash have enough pushback to avoid Yoshi getting grabbed? If not, I don't really think it would be worth it. I guess it would be better than taking the hit, but still... you're just taking the grab instead.

 

[Shiri]

It does push Yoshi back quite significantly.

This means two things. First, it's real good for Yoshi since Pit's grab range is terrible anyway. Second, it's not amazing for Yoshi since Pit can easily evade a shieldgrab of Yoshi's own (which shouldn't be attempted, by the way). I know it seems hard and that it also seems like I'm making a lot of blanket statements about the matchup, but that's just the way it plays out lots of times. Shield everything. Combo. KO. Don't approach from above and watch out for Side+B. Retreating forward air is a *****, but it's slow, so take your time getting around it. Done.

 

[Mmac]

So all there is left now is Diddy, Fox, Marth, Pikachu, Sheik, and ZSS.

 

[Scala]

Well, I guess we are discussing strategies against playing all the other characters as well as trying to give the matchup a x:x rating. Shouldn't we still discuss yoshi v yoshi matchup so we have more thoughts on what to do if you encounter another yoshi (even though it's a 5:5 matchup)

 

[Kiwikomix]

Well, I guess we are discussing strategies against playing all the other characters as well as trying to give the matchup a x:x rating. Shouldn't we still discuss yoshi v yoshi matchup so we have more thoughts on what to do if you encounter another yoshi (even though it's a 5:5 matchup)

Yeah, absolutely. That's something we'll end up doing once we cover every character and I begin organizing all the crap everyone's said in this thread. We can do a special Yoshi vs Yoshi segment then, since that will be the only matchup we haven't covered.

Anyone want to start a, uhh.... Diddy analysis? I'll put Pit up as 5:5.

 

[Mmac]

Diddy Kong I say is a 5:5. Diddy's air's are solid, but none of them can combo at all. His ground game is alot better. His Dash Attack is nasty, which almost always goes into a Smash or a Tilt afterwards. His tilts are decent, and his smashes are pretty mean, But Yoshi should get through them just fine with his Bair, and even his Nair and Dash. Diddy's Peanut Gun is pointless against Yoshi because Yoshi's Eggs not only beat out his Peanuts, they go straight through it! Which leaves him nothing to counter-spam back with (Except maybe his banana's), and forces him into the offencive if he's playing a defencive style.

Banana's are Diddy's bread and butter in almost every user, and it's going to be no different here. Nothing much new applies compared to everyone else, but it usually makes Yoshi's Egg Roll completely pointless in most situations. You also gotta remember that Diddy's Banana's can backfire also, which makes dealing with him alot easier. He's also very open when he's whipping them out. Edgeguarding Diddy isn't that hard if he's using his Jetpac, but if he connects with a SideB, he can spike you to your death. Also Diddy can be Chaingrabbed, and rather easily too, though it alittle hard to snag him at times

 

[Kiwikomix]

Most of what you said is true, but I don't really think chaingrabs will always be viable... more likely than not, Diddy will have left a banana or two lying around on the ground, which will put an end to your dash grabs.

Let's see... edgeguarding stuff... Diddy's recovery is pretty versatile and he usually doesn't need to use his boosters to get back. That is, unless you throw eggs at him. I've noticed that they tend to screw up his recovery pretty badly, as they force him to use his upB earlier. I personally don't think it's worth it to physically edgeguard him, since his sideB spike is so easy to land and will end up with him coming back to the stage.
Getting back to the stage as Yoshi can be a pain though. Diddy likes throwing bananas just past the ledge, so it will be difficult to grab it if you don't keep your upB fresh. ECE's work pretty well if you can get past the bananas, though. Remember that it's not worth it to throw an egg and THEN double jump, because you need as much of a vertical boost as you can get. If you're above the stage, your best bet is to Yoshi Bomb onto the ledge.
I dunno, each character screws up the other's recovery pretty badly and neither of them are particularly adept at getting a KO, either. Diddy's better at racking up damage, but he finds it pretty hard to get a hit in against Yoshi's more ranged attacks. Stick to the air to avoid banana tripping and you should be fine. Don't have a good ratio idea on this one yet.

 

[Depster]

I have a friend that mains diddy and when we both are at our best, we go pretty even, so 5:5 does sound pretty good with him. I've also noticed that yoshi has no trouble picking up bananas, expecially on ledges, cause Dair grabs them so easy.

 

[Scala]

Diddy is the other character that I play a lot and there really is some tricky spots for yoshi in this matchup. First off, every character but yoshi can glide-toss the banana. Yoshi can just stand there and throw it or do a dash throw. It's nearly impossible to follow up with anything after throwing it. Secondly, yoshi's poor traction makes him slide like a madman all over the ground and a lot of time that slides him right over a banana. Fortunately, yoshi has a pretty wicked air game, so if you spend a lot of time in the air you should be better off. Lastly, eggs screw up diddy's recovery something mean. A lot of diddies will use their side-b kick to recover, but it follows right in the trajectory of an egg.


Also, this has been bugging me for a while. I don't really see why people really push yoshi's chaingrab as a huge benefitting factor. I hear things like, "Yeah, yoshi can't do so and so but he can chaingrab so the matchup is at least x:x because of that." Realistically, his chaingrab usually only grabs 2 or 3 times due to his slide and each grab only adds about 3-4 damage.