Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Yoshi Kirishima]

for Shiek, IMO it should be 5:5 or 6:4 or 4:6.

Reasoning...

Shiek's needles are a pain, a little faster than yoshi's egg throw.
Shiek can juggle Yoshi at least decently.

Yoshi has more range (like bair).
Yoshi has more priority.
Yoshi can CG shiek ?(idk about this)

Ok there are more variables and stuff but this is what i'll say for now.

and I got that Yoshimitsu thing, that attack where he sticks his sword down and pojo sticks away :D

I play CF quite a lot (was my secondary in melee/brawl), may be I should you Mmac

 

[Depster]

You guys are making some of these matchups a little more complex than they are... ICs really don't have much on yoshi, it's easy to stay out of their chaingrabs and grab combos, it's easy to separate them, and it's easy to KO them. Yoshi has a definite advantage in my book.

For ROB, I've had some decent experience, and the only thing that he has on yoshi IMO is dsmash, Nair, and the laser. Yoshi combos him like crazy cause of his size, and his recovery is too easy to stop. I think Yoshi has an advantage over ROB, but not as much as what he has on ICs.

About Luigi. I've played a guy tons of times that mains Luigi, and nothing but his forward smash is even any good, I think. His dash attack is a decent damager, but just really isn't that impressive. He has that ^B that kills when sweetspotted, but why would a yoshi user let him get that close? Yoshi has that nice pullback on his Fsmash which helps a lot here, a better Nair IMO, a good spike (Fair), and yoshi has that mean grab on luigi. I think yoshi has a little bit of an advantage here.

 

[Deleted member]

You guys are making some of these matchups a little more complex than they are... ICs really don't have much on yoshi, it's easy to stay out of their chaingrabs and grab combos, it's easy to separate them, and it's easy to KO them. Yoshi has a definite advantage in my book.

For ROB, I've had some decent experience, and the only thing that he has on yoshi IMO is dsmash, Nair, and the laser. Yoshi combos him like crazy cause of his size, and his recovery is too easy to stop. I think Yoshi has an advantage over ROB, but not as much as what he has on ICs.

About Luigi. I've played a guy tons of times that mains Luigi, and nothing but his forward smash is even any good, I think. His dash attack is a decent damager, but just really isn't that impressive. He has that ^B that kills when sweetspotted, but why would a yoshi user let him get that close? Yoshi has that nice pullback on his Fsmash which helps a lot here, a better Nair IMO, a good spike (Fair), and yoshi has that mean grab on luigi. I think yoshi has a little bit of an advantage here.

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................No

 

[Depster]

no to what?

 

[Mmac]

Before I get started on Weegie and Sheik, I've been scouting the other character boards and see what they think how easy or hard of a matchup against Yoshi. If a character isn't listed, then they haven't discussed yet.

Captain Falcon - They have listed Yoshi as their easiest fight..... but it might just be a placeholder because they have no information whatsoever.
DK - Has Yoshi listed at a 6:4 DK
Fox - Has listed at a 5:5. Strange, I would think Fox has the advantage here...
Ice Climbers - Has listed Yoshi as a "5", which is the equivalent to a 9:1..... Something wrong here >_>
Jigglypuff - Has listed as an advantage to her. This is what they said:

"Yoshi really has some good options against jiggs, such as his Fsmash, Dair, etc. but most are pretty easy to evade. It may seem like Yoshi's recovery is really difficult to gimp at first, what with him having super armor during his second jump and all, but with lack of a good Up B as a recovery he can be easily dealt with."

Dedede- Ironically, Yoshi is the only character they haven't discussed yet.
Kirby - Has listed as a 5:5
Lucario - Has listed roughly 6:4 Lucario, but hasn't gone into detail yet... Maybe I'm overestimating them.....
PT - Has Squirtle as an advantage, Ivysaur Neutral, and Charizard Disadvantage. The polar opposite of what we have
Toon Link- Has 7:3 Toon Link, but no reason on why.
Wario - Has listed as 6:4 Wario, but was made before the discovered infinite.
Wolf - Listed as 7:3 Wolf, but hasn't gone into detail
Zelda - Has listed as "Slight Advantage"

As you can see. Most underestimate us, while the rest don't even bother >_>.

Anyways, Onwards to Weegie!

I have little information . Luigi in the Air are pretty average and really nothing special, Though the Bair and Uair can be a problem sometimes. He plays better on the Ground, but not by much. His Fireball's are design to set up an approach, and thats exactly what he'll do, so you gotta look out for that. SideB can be countered with a pivot, but it's pretty hard to do so, especially if he gets a critical. DownB is pretty annoying, but can be counterd with a Pivot Grab. The other thing is that trying to Edgeguard a Luigi Physically is just pointless. DownB Spikes, and SideB can kill (But can screw him up if he already used his DownB). You can try to go for an Dair against his UpB, but he usually never need to resort to that. It's better to go with Egg's. Overall, It's kinda an easy fight, but I have limitied experience with him. I'm going to say 6:4 Yoshi for now

Sheik I even less experience on, so I can't comment

I'll will, though, bring up another character. Ike to discuss

Ike Is probably one of the easiest opponents to deal with if you just play it safe. Almost all of his moves are laggy. Ike usually is going to use his least laggiest moves, which is his Jab, Dsmash, Bair, and UpB. His Jab is pretty hard to deal with, bu is mostly used to set up Air's. His tilts are all laggy, but they pack a huge punch. His F and Usmashes are even more laggy, but have huge range. His Dsmash is actually quick, but doesn't have good range or knockback. Ike's 4 of 5 airs are laggy and are quite easy to avoid, but are still scary. Yoshi can Chaingrab Ike, but the main problem that neither of his charges (Dash attack and SideB) can pivot grab! So the only way to grab Ike is the old fashion way. Edgeguarding a Vertical Ike is just suicide, but a SideB you can just jump in front. The better thing is that your DJ Armour can take the hit and shouldn't kill you . Overall, Ike is pretty easy to deal with if you have a good defencive game, but if you don't pay attention, then he can win just as easily with his shear brute force. I say 6:4 Yoshi

 

[Blistering Speed]

a better Nair IMO

And there is where you lost your credibility Im afraid. Much as I love Yoshi's N Air, Luigi's is either the best or second best in the game ( next to ROB).

 

[Mmac]

And there is where you lost your credibility Im afraid. Much as I love Yoshi's N Air, Luigi's is either the best or second best in the game ( next to ROB).

Really? Hmm... I haven't been hit with many Luigi Nair's... What is good about it? Good Range? Good Power? Good Knockback?

 

[Kiwikomix]

If Yoshi is CF's easiest fight, then that's pretty bad for them... CF is one of Yoshi's easiest fights. Looks like Falcon's best matchup results in a 7:3 disadvantage.

I'm looking at the DK thread, and Ripple says that

yoshi counters dk

I had no idea

Fox - Haha, that's Yoshi in a pint-size box for you. I don't think he really knows how to play against him, but I don't blame him. No one knows anything about Yoshi.

I have no idea how to respond to the IC boards. In their defense, they haven't really started with his reasoning yet. Egg lay, I will admit, isn't blatantly obvious.

Jiggz probably still thinks Yoshi has DJC. That analysis is just wrong on several levels ^_^ Fsmash and dair are his most viable options? lol

Dedede just doesn't want everyone to know that they can be cg'ed... yet.

Kirby is right... because I personally went on to the thread and told them it was even. It's ok though, they agreed with me.

Lucario 6:4? Really? I'm not exactly sure on that one. I hope they aren't either.

I lol'd at PT. At least we agree on Ivysaur >_> They likely think Squirtle is an advantage because everyone has it in their heads that Yoshi can be edgeguarded.

Toonie I can understand. No argument there. We'll see once we get to him.

Wario - yep, that's what they think. (See dr. mario guy on the first page). It's fine though, they at least have an excuse.

Wolf and Zelda I can understand as well.

A few things to keep in mind on the Luigi matchup:
DownB is a godly approach. If you throw an egg at the beginning of the match, be prepared to eat a tornado. Too good.
When Yoshi is recovering, Luigi might try jumping up to his face and spiking or fairing him... use uair and nair, respectively, to fight against that.
You got the Luigi recovery down pretty well. Don't even try to edgeguard, it's a worse decision against him than against most other characters.
Nair and bair approaches after he throws a fireball can be pretty potent, so watch out for those.
Luigi's fsmash comes out quickly and has great range. Therefore, ftilt is somewhat useless in this match =( But bair beats out most of his aerial options, so stick to the air and you'll have a lot fewer problems.
Luigi usually won't have a chance to land his killer upB because of Yoshi's superior range, so that's at least a saving grace.
I dunno, it seems pretty easy on paper but Luigi can really be a beast. I'd say neutral for now, until I do some more research on the man in green.

I'll come back for Ike.

 

[Shiri]

Good everything.

I mean, maybe in terms of "utility in this specific matchup," Yoshi's might be better. Yoshi's has lots of horizontal range (that Luigi can't cover anymore) as opposed to Luigi's very vertical neutral air (which means it can be upsmashed, up air'd, and trades with up tilt). On paper, Luigi's is certainly superior, however. Actually, hmmm, how do you guys think Luigi deals with Yoshi's neutral and vice versa?

P.S. - Whoops, I meant to post this in regards to the Luigi neutral air discussion. Sorry for my late timing.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Np, what I so strongly disagreed with was Yoshi's N Air being better, which is not true. The main problems with Luigi's N Air is it comes out on I think the 3rd frame (@_@), It kills around 130%, I think less if not diminished, but it will be because it's such a good move, and when it doesn't kill it sends vertically upwards, perfect for one Luigi's awesome aerial combo's. Because of this, it's something to be feared.

 

[Kiwikomix]

LoL @ BS sig. No more tornados coming your way, apparently.

 

[Deleted member]

Ripple only said that because i played him online and egg camped him cuz he was trying to approach from the air, then he got all pissed and said yoshi counters Dk =/

 

[Depster]

@Shiri: I'm pretty sure Yoshi's Nair ourprioritizes luigi's, even though luigi's maybe be a harder hitter.

I really do think Yoshi counters DK

 

[Kiwikomix]

LoL, eggspams ftw. He didn't even try to ftilt them away?

All right, since I'm very bored, I'll start with the Ike analysis.

Ike Is probably one of the easiest opponents to deal with if you just play it safe. Almost all of his moves are laggy. Ike usually is going to use his least laggiest moves, which is his Jab, Dsmash, Bair, and UpB. His Jab is pretty hard to deal with, bu is mostly used to set up Air's. His tilts are all laggy, but they pack a huge punch. His F and Usmashes are even more laggy, but have huge range. His Dsmash is actually quick, but doesn't have good range or knockback. Ike's 4 of 5 airs are laggy and are quite easy to avoid, but are still scary. Yoshi can Chaingrab Ike, but the main problem that neither of his charges (Dash attack and SideB) can pivot grab! So the only way to grab Ike is the old fashion way. Edgeguarding a Vertical Ike is just suicide, but a SideB you can just jump in front. The better thing is that your DJ Armour can take the hit and shouldn't kill you . Overall, Ike is pretty easy to deal with if you have a good defencive game, but if you don't pay attention, then he can win just as easily with his shear brute force. I say 6:4 Yoshi

Because most of Ike's moves are laggy, you can bet he'll be abusing the ones that aren't. Those include the ones Mmac listed (jab, d-smash, bair, upB (the last of which is situational but effective)) but also include nair and utilt, not to mention jab into grab, which is pretty nasty. The great thing about all his other aerials is that they just beg to be DJ jugg'd.
At first, it seems like Ike has it made... his bair beats Yoshi's bair (never a good sign) and his dair beats Yoshi's uair (another bad sign). Unfortunately for Ike, Yoshi has a projectile. That means Ike has to approach, since he can't just sweep away the eggs like Marth's jab can. SideB isn't worth approaching with, since there's too much startup lag in order to actually get close to Yoshi, and he'll just get hit with another egg. His ftilt and dtilt have great range for approaching but are pretty laggy. Fight back with tilts of your own. This means he's going to have quite a bit of trouble even landing an attack on Yoshi.
A few random tips on basic combat: Don't use bair unless he's facing you, because his fair can't deal with you as well. Don't go overboard with the combos, because he can counter you. And remember that on the ground, pivot grabs outrange everything but his fsmash (which, by the way, you do NOT want to get hit with).
Mmac got it perfectly on the edgeguarding, but be careful jumping in front of sideB at high percentages, as it will likely go through your DJ jugg frames. In that situation, you would be better off throwing eggs, which absolutely wreak havoc on Ike's recovery considering he falls like a rock. Ike players know this, so they won't be trying to edgeguard you either.
I dunno, to me it's either 5:5 or 6:4 Yoshi.

And I'm having second thoughts on the Luigi matchup... his fsmash is too good and many of his moves have ridiculous priority.

 

[Deleted member]

I still think snake should be 7-3, i have loads of snake experience, and i still have loads of trouble. Id say ike is 6-4 us. He does have some powerful tools, but he doesnt do well against yoshi. Lots and lots of eggs. KIwi covered it pretty much, and i agree with him mostly =P

Ok so i think ICs are 4-6, because they are really gay =P We are assuming the ICs can cg and do it well. Yoshi can deal damage to the ICs fairly well, and can split them up, but one shielded attack can mean 50 or more damage. Plus the fact that they have a spammable projectile, blizzard, and a grab can lead to kill moves means yoshi will have a tough time. Im probably repeating myself but meh =/

 

[Shiri]

I'm probably the only one who thinks Yoshi loses the Ike matchup. :_:

Dangit, I need more easily believable opinions, LOL.

 

[Timotee]

Luigi seems to have some of the best priority in the game, and dealing with stupid combos like down tilt to Ping is redic.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm probably the only one who thinks Yoshi loses the Ike matchup. :_:

Dangit, I need more easily believable opinions, LOL.

Haha i always lose to ikes, but i think im just bad at this game lol

 

[Shiri]

I think Ike is pretty good against Yoshi.

The other Yoshi main around here, Df00z (he posted here like once, I think), is pretty good. I refuse to fight him in Yoshi dittos, so I counterpick Ike, LOL. I'm not saying it's a hand-over-fist victory, but Ike just stuffs Yoshi mid and close range.

 

[Deleted member]

Jerk =P Well i dunno, ike is pretty manly, and he DOES fight for his friends... hmmm... ok shiri, i will listen to you on this one xD

 

[Shiri]

I mean, here, think of it like this.

Name one move Yoshi has that beats retreating forward air.

Exactly.

You can't get under, over, behind, or around it. And that's just one move (albeit, one of Ike's most useful).

Ike just has lots of options and ways to execute them. At least in terms of mid tiered characters and anybody who's not extremely good or broken, Ike's "telegraphed" moves don't matter if you can't do anything about them, hahaha. Again, Yoshi can win, but I think it's tough, especially since players (for some reason) tend to underestimate Ike when he's not a bad character, in actuality.

 

[Chaco]

I think Ike is pretty good against Yoshi.

The other Yoshi main around here, Df00z (he posted here like once, I think), is pretty good. I refuse to fight him in Yoshi dittos, so I counterpick Ike, LOL. I'm not saying it's a hand-over-fist victory, but Ike just stuffs Yoshi mid and close range.

I'm going to have to agree with you Shiri. Ike is a tougher match-up for Yoshi. not by any means something like Lucario though. The thing with Ike is that his Bair out prioritizes Yoshi's. That's kind of a scary thought. With that edge his Dair does the same to Yoshi's Uair. So let's see, Yoshi's best killing move is OP. And my best combo starter is OP. So it's starting to go in Ike's favor. His smashes are deadly, especially the Fsmash. That's one thing you don't want to try to grab out through. You will not win, but will result with a **** sword in your face. So it seems like Ike has the upper hand, until we go to our lovable recovery. The spammable egg. Which should strike fear in Ike's recovery, most Ike's I've played will try to recover w/o using B moves until it is certain that they have to. And you can pressure them into these possible SDs by spamming the egg on them. So when you have good knock off throw eggs at Ike until you have him to a point where he has to use Aether or the side B, which name escapes me. I would also say in the match-up that tilts are your friend. You'll want to keep some distance but go in for those short combos when Ike whiffs, oh it will happen.

Let's go to some of Yoshi's other moves, side special, not anything you would want to try and do in this match. Ike's Utilt will **** you, let alone to cancel all he has to do is break out a quick tilt. So I'm done typing this right now, so discuss?

 

[Deleted member]

Sounds reasonable. His nair is really good too =/ It has like no lag wtf h4x.

 

[Scala]

You can move faster horizontally in the air than ike can. full jump and move into him as fast as possible and airdodge his retreating fsmash and finish it off with a autocancelled nair.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Name one move Yoshi has that beats retreating forward air.

Airdodge?
The thing about that situation is that if Ike is retreating, he's either being comboed (in which case the bair Yoshi is likely using will come out faster) or he's getting away from your combo (in which case you can just eggspam again).
I know I have a tendency to think in worst-case-scenarios for each character, but Ike does tend to miss a lot of his attacks. More than most other characters, at least. Which is bad because he's a "make every hit count" kind of character.

@ Chaco: In what way are you using the phrase "OP"? I only know it as "overpowered".
Ike's SideB is called quick draw.
Keep in mind that the same move that ***** egg roll will also **** Yoshi bomb.

I can understand what both of you are saying, but I honestly don't think each character can really destroy each other in any aspect of their ground or air games. Usually waiting for a puishment opportunity means a loss, but Ike's moves have so many of those opportunities that it usually breaks even. I admit that, without Ike's awful recovery, the matchup would be even or slightly in Ike's favor, but it's just not difficult enough to force him off the stage for it to be that way. I dunno, I haven't even updated the first post yet so it's not like it's set in stone.

Edit: Scala does make a good point. Yoshi's aerial speed helps him punish better than other characters.

 

[Shiri]

I think he's using the trans literal meaning of overpowered in the context of his phrases.

That is to say, Yoshi's moves are "being overpowered by Ike's," and not just "overpowered."

And yes, I see what you're saying. But trust me, when you're spamming air dodge, you're not winning. See: Meta Knight. I don't think there are good enough Ike players yet to make him seem scary, which is a shame, but I'm just saying not to underestimate him because he's pretty kinda REALLY good you ever run across a smart Ike player (I know, I know...it's like finding a smart Falco, but I'm sure they exist somewhere). Also, BIG YES to what you said about pushing him off the edge. Whenever I fight Ike, I basically spam shield pressure when he's near the edge and try my best to get lucky so as to get him off the stage and keep him there. His on-stage game is way too scary, but pushing him off is not so bad and is highly encouraged.

 

[Blistering Speed]

LoL @ BS sig. No more tornados coming your way, apparently.

Haha, nope, the guy's too overplayed and too good. Winning doesn't seem like an accomplishment with MK. Besides now I can almost DR 100% of the tim and can 0-Death CG with IC's, who needs MK XD

OT, Ike against Yoshi is IMO 5:5, Ike's N Air and Jab>Yoshi. But on the other hand, Ike's still highly telegraphed and quick B Airs, with Jab and F Tilt pressure can still cope with him well and that's not forgetting that lovely Egg Spam that Ike's will always have trouble with. But the fact he can keep well spaced with F Air and Jab will always give you trouble in close range combat is enough to keep this 5:5

 

[Kiwikomix]

the guy's too overplayed and too good. Winning doesn't seem like an accomplishment with MK.

LOL sounds exactly like what I said yesterday to this guy about Sheik in Melee after I whupped his Marth's ***. Who needs that when I can whup his *** anyway with Pikachu?

It looks like we're all converging on a neutral for this particular matchup, although Shiri has made some good arguments for 4:6. The main point I have left is that Yoshi really does have the tools for punishment, arguably more than almost any other character since his air speed is so fast and his aerials tend to have great range. And, as always, Yoshi may not be great at edgeguarding, but he's great at getting people off the edge. But in this case, he actually IS good at edgeguarding.
It seems like it would be either neutral or in Yoshi's favor similar to why it would be in MK's favor - awesome punishment game and the ability to gimp Ike to the extreme.

 

[Chaco]

Kiwi I was using it as "out prioritized"

 

[Mmac]

Ike is pretty Neutralish, but he's also one of the most predictable Characters on the Roster.

I think we should discuss about Sheik now. What happened to him? I thought we were discussing him with Ike and Luigi.

I know what I said >_>

 

[Kiwikomix]

Kiwi I was using it as "out prioritized"

Ohhhhhh.
Should've known.

Ike is pretty Neutralish, but he's also one of the most predictable Characters on the Roster.

I think we should discuss about Sheik now. What happened to him? I thought we were discussing him with Ike and Luigi.

I know what I said >_>

Sheik... a HIM? That sounds kind of .
We were discussing.... it? I didn't remember that... oh well. I was waiting for a response on the Ike matchup but that's fine. I don't like to start it off so someone else can.

 

[Shiri]

LOL @ Farfetch'd!!

-superdead-

LOLOLOLOL

I think I'm okay now.

I'll settle for Ike 5:5 because you've made it clear that punishing him by pressure and pushing him off the stage isn't really hard to do for how much reward it gives.

I can't say anything about the Sheik matchup, though. I actually play her, but I don't play her against Yoshi, so I have no idea how it goes. I'd imagine a lot of grabs and back airs would be going on, but that's just a blind guess, hahaha.

 

[Mmac]

Shigeru Miyamoto says Sheik is a Male, so that what I'm going with.

Anyways, I don't know anything about..... it. So I'm going to see if I can get a fight from one of the Sheiks over from their board to see how he is.

Also they have it listed at 7:3 Sheik right now, but never discussed Yoshi at all yet.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yeah, I just control-F'ed every page on Sheik's thread and they didn't really talk about him, except for saying that he was nerfed from Melee (what?). 7-3 was probably just an arbitrary thing.

OK, we're cool with the neutral Ike. I'll update first post.

 

[Deleted member]

I think lucas is at least 6-4 yoshi. He gets cged, easily edgeguarded because his up b is so much slower than ness, and overall he doesnt have much against yoshi. His jabs, nair and ftilt are good, but they arent too much of a problem, nair gets pivot grabbed and pk spam is PK easy to get around. YOur bair>his aerials. I think 7-3, but meh, id settle for 6-4.

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

I think lucas is at least 6-4 yoshi. He gets cged, easily edgeguarded because his up b is so much slower than ness, and overall he doesnt have much against yoshi. His jabs, nair and ftilt are good, but they arent too much of a problem, nair gets pivot grabbed and pk spam is PK easy to get around. YOur bair>his aerials. I think 7-3, but meh, id settle for 6-4.

I agree, and also I'd like to add that even with magnet pull, it still isn't that hard to edgeguard him, though it does give more to his recovery than just PK Thunder and the snake. I'd say 6-4.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Ill agree on the Lucas matchup, just watch out for well spaced PK Fire spam, cause that will beat eggs every day of the week. The F Smash is also a hassle because it is much faster than you would expect, but grabs outrange it so its not too much of a big deal.



Shiek is kind of tough for me, the needle spam will go through the DJ super armor at high percents, and is faster than your eggs on the ground. Approaching with Nair / Bair is a good way to go. Luckily you cant get F Tilt locked at low percents if you still have your second jump which is nice, but if you dont prepare to be at 50 or 60% or so.

This matchup seems pretty even to me, and has been every time that I have played shiek. I'd give it a 5-5

 

[Mmac]

I agree on 6:4 also for Lucas. Lucas's Air's are not as a problem as Ness's, but he has a better Ground game. However neither Lucas's Airs or Ground attacks can really deal with Yoshi in the air, so that creates a problem for him. While Lucas is harder to edgeguard than Ness with a tougher UpB and a tether, he can still be edgeguarded quite easily. Also his entire UpB Missile can be stopped with one well aimed egg, causing him to fall to his death. Plus the chaingrab is a nice boost

 

[Blistering Speed]

Do bear in mind that Egg spam is also close to useless, because of Lucas' nasty b stick'd PK Fire and though it hasnt been mentioned yet, His F Smash also reflects projectiles. Yoshi has no problem with Lucas' airgame thanks to his B Air and also Yoshi can deal with Lucas' ground game effectively with pivot grab. 6-4 to Yoshi, 7-3 seems abit of a stretch.

 

[Deleted member]

Bsticked pk fire is totally overrated.

Edit: I have a video of me owning bigmans yoshi with my ike xD Ill put it up soon to show the glory that is my crapppy ike xD