Yoshi Matchup Thread

[DanGR]

why is yoshi at such a disadvantage against zelda? I just started using yoshi and I haven't had any problems that I don't normally have against my friend's zelda. If anything it's 6:4 yoshi. Yoshi's offensive presence beats her defense. bair has just enough range to go over fsmash and under upsmash. bair>dtilt from behind is very sexy. low percent kills. (like 100%) easy juggling. just don't spotdodge or roll and you'll be fine.

 

[Snowstalker]

By the way, just a question: Why is the matchup chart so much different from this?

 

[Bwett]

By the way, just a question: Why is the matchup chart so much different from this?

Because there are few good Yoshi's out there besides the ones on this board, so people assume that Yoshi sucks hardcore, even though Yoshi is amazing.

 

[Kiwikomix]

First let me say hold up on Marth. Once we do him I can almost guarantee that we'll have at least one Marth main on these boards getting angry at us. I want to save that hassle for when every other character is done.

@ Scala: I started having that feeling about Luigi a while back too, mainly because of his sick aerial priority. I didn't have too much trouble with his fsmash, at least not as much trouble as DK's. I do agree on the MK matchup, it seems ridiculous to me to think that 5:5 is an option at all.

@ Mmac: The problem is that MK is an aerial-based character. If he knows that you have a chain grab, he'll just jump high enough to avoid your tongue... as a multi-jumper, he can do that. Unlike Ike, he's not easily punished, and punishment is your main option in this match. I think it's leaning toward 7:3 a lot more than it is 5:5.

@ DanGR: It's just far too difficult to approach her. You can usually get an egg out before she gets a Din's, but after that initial bit you can bet she'll outcamp you. If she didn't have a reflector, it would be an entirely different story, but man, you just can't land a hit. If the opponent anticipates it, it's easy for them to hit you with an fsmash, and it isn't really a good option to approach from above in most matchups. Plus she outkills you and outprioritizes you. Trust me, it is possibly one of Yoshi's worst matchups, although Lucario is close.

@ Pikachu: Where to begin...
Firstly, I wouldn't say that this matchup is nearly as terrible as some of you are saying.
- Thundershocks are annoying but don't end up being that big of a hassle... all they do is shut down your ECE's, and that's only if you don't time them right.
- Thunder is obviously annoying, but Yoshi has enough horizontal speed that I've found it's not too difficult to airdodge past, or you could just double jump through it.
- Pikachu's dsmash is too good. Avoid the ground as much as possible, and stick to your tilts, grabs and jabs when you're in between aerials.
- When you're in the air, you win hands down. Pika's air game is very lackluster in both priority and range (yup, just like Melee Pika <3) and he doesn't really have the aerial speed to compensate anymore.
- Pikachu kills you fairly early. That's not as big of a problem as in most other matchups, since you can do the same, but it's something to be aware of.
- You can't edgeguard Pikachu. Ever. Don't bother trying, just chuck an egg or two and hope it screws up his flight plan.
- Fortunately, he can't really edgeguard you either. His usual annoyances (fair, thundershock) don't really hold a candle to what Yoshi can do back. Something fun to try here if he tries to intercept you aerially is to egg lay him. Not really necessary, but it pisses off your opponent and gets him off your back.
- If he stays on the edge, get ready for thunder or dsmash spam. Just get off the ledge in that case, usually with a nair ledge attack. Make sure you time it so that your super armor absorbs the first hit of his dsmash, otherwise you're trapped.
- QAC isn't a horrendous problem. If you think he's going to do it (and there's a reasonable amount of lag time beforehand), use usmash to cover all your bases.

So it's not an easy matchup but it certainly isn't TOO hard. 4:6?
- Pikachu can't be edgeguarded at all.

 

[Chaco]

why is yoshi at such a disadvantage against zelda? I just started using yoshi and I haven't had any problems that I don't normally have against my friend's zelda. If anything it's 6:4 yoshi. Yoshi's offensive presence beats her defense. bair has just enough range to go over fsmash and under upsmash. bair>dtilt from behind is very sexy. low percent kills. (like 100%) easy juggling. just don't spotdodge or roll and you'll be fine.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's a bad match-up there buddy. Aproaching is a *****. Big time. And your worst enemy is Usmash. One of the worst if not the worst match-up, IMHO.

 

[DanGR]

Hmmm... I need to record some of my first matches i guess-to share some light. I've only been playing him for like two days, but it's becoming rather easy to rack, juggle, edgeguard, and kill zelda. I kill at around 100% and edgeguarding her seems kinda cheap as well. Once, I had about a 20 move string against her before she finally touched the ground. Yoshi is just too good in the air. Oh, and my opponent doesn't suck either.

 

[Chaco]

Hmmm... I need to record some of my first matches i guess-to share some light. I've only been playing him for like two days, but it's becoming rather easy to rack, juggle, edgeguard, and kill zelda. I kill at around 100% and edgeguarding her seems kinda cheap as well. Once, I had about a 20 move string against her before she finally touched the ground. Yoshi is just too good in the air. Oh, and my opponent doesn't suck either.

Are you positive on that, Play a known Zelda and see your outcome.

 

[SOVAman]

By the way, just a question: Why is the matchup chart so much different from this?

Well to start the match up chart is wrong. And it makes some characters look really bad like Yoshi.

 

[Bwett]

Hmmm... I need to record some of my first matches i guess-to share some light. I've only been playing him for like two days, but it's becoming rather easy to rack, juggle, edgeguard, and kill zelda. I kill at around 100% and edgeguarding her seems kinda cheap as well. Once, I had about a 20 move string against her before she finally touched the ground. Yoshi is just too good in the air. Oh, and my opponent doesn't suck either.

Seriously, if you did a 20 move string, then either your friend sucks or he isn't used to yoshi yet. Either way, zelda's tilts and smashes have to much priority for yoshi to contend with. It's more just spam until she spams, then try to maybe get a grab or a bair and hope to the high heavens she doesn't have an usmash waiting.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Another thing is that you do have to assume that the opponent knows the matchup as well as you do. You've been playing that Zelda for a while, I'm guessing, but he has just started to play against your Yoshi. As such, he won't know how Yoshi plays as well as you know how he plays.

 

[bigman40]

...Or you can jump to airdodge to counter her lag. When Zelda is recovering, if you can get her on the stage, then it's a easy hit if you're ready. Her reflector does get annoying, I'll admit that. however her Din's spam isn't strong enough if you ping it out (I did it with a Bair and Nair).

I can't talk about Pika players cause I need more experience against them (I only played Anther, and a few others).

Meta is 6:4. Seriously, if he wants to go airbourne, then you can time a sliding Usmash to go under his hitbox. Meta's weakest spot is under him, and you can time a Uair to beat him. Chaingrabs makes him play different cause they can't play offensively as much.

 

[Bwett]

Meta is 6:4. Seriously, if he wants to go airbourne, then you can time a sliding Usmash to go under his hitbox. Meta's weakest spot is under him, and you can time a Uair to beat him. Chaingrabs makes him play different cause they can't play offensively as much.

Totally agree, your usmash and uair clink or beat his tornado, shuttle loop, and glide attack, which are some of his most deadly moves. Furthermore, you can grab him out of all his special moves, along with the fact that your eggs break all his special moves as well. Chaingrab to usmash at high percentage is beastly, too.

 

[Deleted member]

On pika:

pikas dsmash isnt that good. Keep tapping up and tehn u just punish him. U beat him on the ground besides a few moves, and as long as he doesnt get where he wants to in the air(being right next to you), you beat him in the air. He actually has trouble killing yoshi imo(if u are lookin for the kill moves, they are hard to land). QACs, like kiwi said, are annoying but not too bad, just make it annoying to stop his approaches. Also, dont try to edgeguard pika, his up b gimps ur recovery =/ THundershocks get jabbed.
5:5


Also zelda is 6:4 at the worst. U cant use ONLY (needed that edit) personal experience for the matchup. Zelda is easily juggled, her camping is crap against yoshi, in general, her fsmash isnt too much of a problem cuz yoshi doesnt like to be right in front of characters like zelda anyways. Usmash is the best thing zelda has. Zelda is bad at handling pressure, especially since her aerial game is so terrible, so all she has is her neutral b to get u off her(which is pretty annoying, but dont stop a determined yoshi coming from below =P). Her dtilt is very good and combos into stuff so watch out for it. Once she is in the air, shes screwed. Period.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I would actually agree with 5:5 for Pika. I put 4:6 because I thought you would all think I was crazy for putting it neutral. Peer pressure?
Zelda I'm not sold on, but I'll put it down as debated.

 

[Deleted member]

Id love a good reason why zelda is 7:3. I think its even, another zelda i played thought it was evenish because "yoshi can knock zelda around pretty well" (thats not the exact words but somethin like that). I think 4.5-5.5 is probably right. Yes she has a good usmash, but its not THAT hard to get around(alot easier than snakes tilts imo).

 

[Kiwikomix]

I hate fighting Zelda. You absolutely cannot approach her from above, up air can kill at around 90% if you're a good distance above the stage and up smash seems to go through everything. Din's Fire, while easily dodged, is still a pain and her reflector makes it hard to use eggs effectively. Her aerials, while they don't combo into each other like Yoshi's does, are still dangerous and I'm always trying to maneuver while recovering so I don't get spiked or heeled. Thing is, I know that if you get spiked, you can recover if you happen to have your double jump still (happened to me on Yoshi's Island Brawl twice in an online match). Usually killing them upwards seems to work best for me, unless you can get an fsmash in, but with Zelda's prioritastic fsmash it's kinda hard to do. 7:3 Zelda

Those seem like pretty good reasons to me. I think grabs are being neglected in this particular matchup, but they're still pretty easily dodged.

 

[Deleted member]

DJC egg lay works well to approach i find. I like waiting a bit in my short hop to see what they do, you can bair or DJC egg lay from there. From a bair, its an easy utilt or ftilt depending on their DI, and thats where yoshi can do damage. I stand by my statement that zeldas aerials are situational and not good, and yoshi is usually not in a position to be toed(its a toe dangit -.-). Nair is pretty useless in this matchup, and the dair is meh, tho coool lookin. In many cases, if zelda reflects and egg, she is left open. I rest my case =P

 

[Fingerp@ss]

Some of you have probably seen my friendlies with DarkMusician's Zelda. I learned a few things after playing more against his Zelda. Try not to throw an egg in the beginning of the match since you are more than likely to get hit by dinsfire. If you do the bair to tilt/usmash combo do not go for another air since she can nail you with her bair easily, yoshi has got to be one of the easiest to sweet spot and also she may go for the dair if you try to jump at her from below. Throwing an egg after the bair to tilt combo is sketchy depending on the di since she can air dodge and come back and bair before the lag ends from the egg toss.

I also learned not to challenge an air attack when recovering especially if Zelda jumps out after you. Her dair can easily spike you or gimp you even if you try for an uair or a nair. Air dodging or just lasting through Yoshi's DJ works best.

Get a good hit or two in and get outta there before the SH bair. Deadly.

Zelda definitely wins but I think its closer to 6.5.

 

[SOVAman]

For fox it should be a 6:4 in favor of Yoshi.
- they both have good projectiles.
- both fox and yoshi's Nair's are strong and similar.
- both of there smash moves are similar and fast.
- but the one thing that make yoshi better is his recovery.
- also fox's recovery is easy to gimp.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Meta is 6:4.

Uh... you mean 6:4 Yoshi's favor?

What are you smoking?

Note: Pika updated as 5:5.

 

[bigman40]

Uh... you mean 6:4 Yoshi's favor?

What are you smoking?

Note: Pika updated as 5:5.

Sry if I didn't specify (and I wish it was that easy). 6:4 MK's favor.

EDIT: and I smoke smash XD

 

[Kiwikomix]

OK, haha, I was a bit worried there for a second. Even is a stretch, but Yoshi advantage would blow my mind.

 

[Mmac]

We should continue on this.

Since someone brought up Fox, we should discuss him next.

I don't know any of him, because I have never played a human Fox in Melee, Brawl, or even on the 64 in my entire life O_o.

On the Fox Matchup Thread there, they listed Yoshi as an even 5:5 Matchup.

We should finish the rest, then go in depth of each character

 

[SOVAman]

I don't know any of him, because I have never played a human Fox in Melee, Brawl, or even on the 64 in my entire life O_o.

WHAT have you ever played a human in melee at all. Cuz almost everyone either mained or seconded falco or fox.

 

[bigman40]

He lives on an island, away from the competition. I'll post again on my take against fox since I had recent experience against a good one.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Let's see... Fox...
First of all, you have to approach him, and since he has a reflector you won't usually have any reason for eggspams at the beginning. Fortunately, he's not as hard to approach as Falco. Bair works just fine as an approach, as do grabs and tilts.
Fox has some pretty good combos, but you can DJ escape most of them and outcombo him anyway.
ECE's force him to reflect and give you a good way to get back on to the stage while he's busy.
If you don't approach from above you really shouldn't have any problem with him... pretty much all your options outrange or outprioritize his. Your ground game = his ground game, your air game > his air game, and generally your air game > his ground game.
I would actually say this is in Yoshi's advantage. Thoughts?

 

[Mmac]

WHAT have you ever played a human in melee at all. Cuz almost everyone either mained or seconded falco or fox.

The people around me Mained mostly Marth, Sheik, Falco, but no Fox's

 

[Deleted member]

He lives on an island, away from the competition. I'll post again on my take against fox since I had recent experience against a good one.

Was...was it me? XD

 

[SOVAman]

The people around me Mained mostly Marth, Sheik, Falco, but no Fox's

were do live alaska

 

[bigman40]

No.. XD

I find Fox vs Yoshi an even matchup currently. Fox can combo and has good speed to quickly close the gap if you are attempting to stay away. While at the same time, he's open to being combo'd himself, due to his fall speed (Yoshi can get combo'd too, but not as severly since you can break some of them).

Reflector forces you to use eggs smart, and this'll make ETS a little more important. Both characters can gimp pretty good, but Yoshi has a tad advantage at gimping fox. Fox has a very potent K.O. move that combos fairly well (Dair -> Usmash). It's quite hard to clank this atk or evenbeat the speed of it (starts fairly fast). Accommadating to moving nearly as quickly as fox, and not having to spam eggs alot makes this match seemingly odd, but it's a good evened out matchup.

 

[SOVAman]

No.. XD

I find Fox vs Yoshi an even matchup currently. Fox can combo and has good speed to quickly close the gap if you are attempting to stay away. While at the same time, he's open to being combo'd himself, due to his fall speed (Yoshi can get combo'd too, but not as severly since you can break some of them).

Reflector forces you to use eggs smart, and this'll make ETS a little more important. Both characters can gimp pretty good, but Yoshi has a tad advantage at gimping fox. Fox has a very potent K.O. move that combos fairly well (Dair -> Usmash). It's quite hard to clank this atk or evenbeat the speed of it (starts fairly fast). Accommadating to moving nearly as quickly as fox, and not having to spam eggs alot makes this match seemingly odd, but it's a good evened out matchup.

Agreed

10 Yoshi's

 

[Kiwikomix]

I dunno, it still seems like an advantage to me put I'll keep it as neutral once we get a majority up here. I just don't really know what Fox can do to pose a threat to Yoshi (besides that dair-usmash thing bigman mentioned) because his reflector isn't nearly as nasty as Flacko's.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

No.. XD

I find Fox vs Yoshi an even matchup currently. Fox can combo and has good speed to quickly close the gap if you are attempting to stay away. While at the same time, he's open to being combo'd himself, due to his fall speed (Yoshi can get combo'd too, but not as severly since you can break some of them).

Reflector forces you to use eggs smart, and this'll make ETS a little more important. Both characters can gimp pretty good, but Yoshi has a tad advantage at gimping fox. Fox has a very potent K.O. move that combos fairly well (Dair -> Usmash). It's quite hard to clank this atk or evenbeat the speed of it (starts fairly fast). Accommadating to moving nearly as quickly as fox, and not having to spam eggs alot makes this match seemingly odd, but it's a good evened out matchup.

I concur.
10 baby yoshies

 

[SOVAman]

I dunno, it still seems like an advantage to me put I'll keep it as neutral once we get a majority up here. I just don't really know what Fox can do to pose a threat to Yoshi (besides that dair-usmash thing bigman mentioned) because his reflector isn't nearly as nasty as Flacko's.

I agree

10 Pink Yoshi's

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno, it still seems like an advantage to me put I'll keep it as neutral once we get a majority up here. I just don't really know what Fox can do to pose a threat to Yoshi (besides that dair-usmash thing bigman mentioned) because his reflector isn't nearly as nasty as Flacko's.

He outcamps u, he has a great dash attack, dair to utilt combos, hes a much better character than yoshi, especially against people big like yoshi. Also he edgeguards yoshi rly easily.

 

[Kress]

Ummmm...
Fox? I'd say that there's very little advantage on yoshi's side.
Proyectiles : Fox > Yoshi
Air Game: Yoshi > Fox
Ground Based Attacks: Fox = Yoshi
Grabs, Shileds & Evading: Fox > Yoshi
Edgeguard: Yoshi > Fox
Recovering: Yoshi = Fox
Approaching: Yoshi > Fox
KOing: Yoshi > Fox
Rising %: Yoshi > Fox
At least, that's how I feel when I play against foxes :D!

 

[bigman40]

He outcamps u, he has a great dash attack, dair to utilt combos, hes a much better character than yoshi, especially against people big like yoshi. Also he edgeguards yoshi rly easily.

I think stocky likes to talk about all the negatives about Yoshi. XD

 

[Deleted member]

I think stocky likes to talk about all the negatives about Yoshi. XD

Who are you calling stocky.xD
Its cuz people here have the delusion that yoshi is good, that pivot grabs shut down characters(MK lolz, silly people), and that yoshi can combo better than fox, edgeguard better than fox, taunt better than fox(here i come) and kill better than fox. All of which arent true =P

 

[Kiwikomix]

Who are you calling stocky.xD
Its cuz people here have the delusion that yoshi is good, that pivot grabs shut down characters(MK lolz, silly people), and that yoshi can combo better than fox, edgeguard better than fox, taunt better than fox(here i come) and kill better than fox. All of which arent true =P

LoL.
Yoshi isn't good but he at least isn't trash.
Up-taunt dancing is, hands down, the best taunt in the game. No argument.
I will concede Yoshi's edgeguarding and killing are likely the worst aspects of his game (besides OOS game), and pivot grabs don't outclass the world but they can be handy every now and then. However, they aren't foolproof enough to rely on in most cases.

Spoiler

burntsocks will now be renamed stocky

 

[DanGR]

It's Fox>Yoshi. Fox has the aerial speed and priority, and the ground speed and quickness to completely overwhelm yoshi.