Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Mmac]

Why can't we just agree on Even? Even Fox mains themselves say that the matchup is even >_<

 

[Kiwikomix]

He outcamps u

But if you can approach him it doesn't matter right?
Here's an example: Marth gets outcamped by ANY character with a projectile. But he can actually land a hit and he has enough speed to usually get the attack before the opponent. Both of these elements can be found in his dair.
Plus it's not a big deal since Fox lazer doesn't even make you flinch.

It's Fox>Yoshi. Fox has the aerial speed and priority, and the ground speed and quickness to completely overwhelm yoshi.

Yoshi's tilts have a tendency to beat out all of Fox's ground options. And Yoshi actually has more priority in the air.

Edit: @ Mmac: I'm bored and I'm not tired. Sorry for finding something to do... >_<
And I honestly wouldn't argue something here if I didn't think it was true.

 

[Talazala]

I would say they're even. Yoshi has a better airgame than Fox, has a eggtoss that forces Fox to shield or reflect, and I personally think Yoshi has better edgeguard than Fox. Fox has a laser that can help build damage on Yoshi, and has good killing combos and is faster.

Can anyone tell me how Yoshi against Mario is a 4:6 match up? Yoshi is faster, and I'm pretty sure he has a better air game than the plumber. I'm almost certain Yoshi has better range than Mario, and is exceedingly better than Mario at gimping. Can someone explain?

 

[Bwett]

I honestly don't see this one. Jump out to edgeguard is easy for Yoshi to avoid with DJ armor/DJAD and lazers don't flinch him. How, exactly, is he easily edgeguarded?

Fox's shine breaks yoshi's heavy armor in his double jump. I got 3 stocked by burtnsocks' fox the first time I played him because I wasn't prepared for the shine. It's extremely dangerous against yoshi.

 

[Kiwikomix]

The biggest thing to remember with Yoshi is that his second jump gives super armor, so you can't really attack him while he is doing it, and you sure as hell can't shine spike him.

Either they're wrong or we are.

 

[Bwett]

Either they're wrong or we are.

What do they know, they probably played a yoshi once in their life lol. I wouldn't openly admit a 3-stocking unless it would help the yoshi boards =P

EDIT: The fact that they think its super armor should be a dead give away lol

 

[Sharky]

If fox is coming out for the shine spike then air-dodge. Problem solved.

 

[Shiri]

I've jumped through shines on a few occasions, but I'll admit, I haven't tested its behavior.

Does it really shinespike through the jump in this game? >_>;

 

[Kiwikomix]

All right, if that actually happens then it may be pushed into even, especially since that's what everyone thinks anyway. I'll update the first post.

We have a problem on Zamus and Sheik... no one here or on their respective boards understands the matchup at all. I don't want to just randomly assign a point value if we don't think it's correct.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

What do they know, they probably played a yoshi once in their life lol. I wouldn't openly admit a 3-stocking unless it would help the yoshi boards =P

EDIT: The fact that they think its super armor should be a dead give away lol

I concur

10 dark blue baby yoshies

 

[Bwett]

Does it really shinespike through the jump in this game? >_>;

I dunno, maybe it only happens at certain spots in the double jump. All I know is I got gimped 3 times by fox in a match by being shine "spiked" (Not so much a spike but enough to push yoshi to death). Certainly that can't be coincidence, ya know? lol

 

[Shiri]

Kiwi, I posted about the Zero Suit matchup already.

P.S. - Oh wait, I found it. Here we go.

Yoshi counters Zero Suit Samus. The end.

Yup, sounds about right.

 

[Kress]

It's probably becouse the SA frames from yoshi's double jump works just at the beginning of the jump. Maybe you were ShineSpiked after you lost the SA frames. Anyway, I'll test it and tell if fox's shine spike breaks through yoshi's SA frames :S

EDIT: Alredy tested it, nope, fox's shinespike doesnt breaks through yoshi's SA frames :S

ScndEDIT: But remember that yoshi's SA frames are active at the beginning of the second jump, and the SA finishes near the middle of the animation

 

[Shiri]

Thanks, Kress.

But yeah, if anybody wants to see a cool trick against anybody that knows the Zero Suit Samus matchup versus Yoshi, wait for the ZSS player to pick their character. Put your icon over Yoshi and press the A button. Wait to hear them unclick the R trigger before the match starts, LOL!

 

[Kiwikomix]

I needs details sir... because apparently you're the only one who knows about the matchup.

 

[SOVAman]

Now for marth.

Everyone who has played a tournament level Marth knows Marth has a advantage. The exact advantage I don't know but it is probably a pretty big advantage.
Because...
-Marth has a disjointed hitbox with all his attacks.
-Marth beats Yoshi in the Aerial game
-and ground game

one thing Yoshi has that Marth does not is a....
projectile (to be more specific EGGS)

it is a 7:3 OR a 8:2 in favor of Marth.

 

[Bwett]

Thanks, Kress.

But yeah, if anybody wants to see a cool trick against anybody that knows the Zero Suit Samus matchup versus Yoshi, wait for the ZSS player to pick their character. Put your icon over Yoshi and press the A button. Wait to hear them unclick the R trigger before the match starts, LOL!

Rofl, two thumbs up sir!

 

[Bwett]

Now for marth.

Everyone who has played a tournament level Marth knows Marth has a advantage. The exact advantage I don't know but it is probably a pretty big advantage.
Because...
-Marth has a disjointed hitbox with all his attacks.
-Marth beats Yoshi in the Aerial game
-and ground game

one thing Yoshi has that Marth does not is a....
projectile (to be more specific EGGS)

it is a 7:3 OR a 8:2 in favor of Marth.

I say 7:3 because of Marth's ability to be gimped helps Yoshi alittle, but for the most part, it's probably a good idea to change characters lol

EDIT: Aww crap, double post, "I'm worth it" lol

 

[SOVAman]

I say 7:3 because of Marth's ability to be gimped helps Yoshi alittle, but for the most part, it's probably a good idea to change characters lol

EDIT: Aww crap, double post, "I'm worth it" lol

Have you ever gimped a tournament level marth? Cause if you did who the hell was it and that person needs to stop using Marth.

Why I say that is because his up-b already makes him un-gimpable and they can slash on the way back because a good Marth will be able to predict if your going to edge-hug or not.

 

[Mmac]

Yes, Marth is a pain for Yoshi, but one thing I notice is that While Marth does have lighting fast attacks and the range to back it up, I noticed that almost every single move he has has Afterlag, just enough for Yoshi to take advantage on. Also while Marth range was only slightly Nerfed, it's been nerfed enough for Yoshi to just barley take him on in the air with the Bair and Uair. Nothing really much to say. It's Marth. This matchup is about patients and picking your attacks carefully

I say about a 4:6 or 3:7

 

[Kress]

I've alredy played against good marths, they are a PAIN -.-! If you approach with a Bair, they shield then grab; with an Egg Roll, Counter; Dash Attack, dont even think about it or you'll be Fair-ed to death -.-. So yeah, marth is better in the air, better in the ground, all becouse of his good range and the small amount of lag on his moves.
Anyway, marth doesnt has proyectiles, that's a point in yoshi's favor, you can always egg tos slide, and when the marth approaches with Fairs, EggRoll to the other side of the stage :S. I've beaten marths, but the best for fighting 'em would be a stage with plattaforms. You just have to wait for marth to miss an attack to approach -.-!

Anyways, the advantage is for Marth, i'd say 6:4 or 7:3.

 

[bigman40]

wow....seems like I got alot of catching up to do. I'll post about all the questions

but....just going to state ratios I think the matchups are currently
Marth 6.5:3.5 Disadvantage
ZSS 5:5 Even
Shiek (her skill is flying all over the place. I need to play some good ones)

And to clear the Shine, no you can't get knocked out of your DJ until high %'s. I've never gotten knocked out of one yet.

SUPA EDIT!

Marth: He out ranges you everywhere. It's that simple. His lag after his ground atks are punishable (the best opportunity Yoshi has), and timed pivot grabs stop Marth's Fair. While he can pressure you well, you can fight back decently enough to keep him from running all over you. And since Yoshi does well in comboing, he can add some decent dmg to marth. Also, the DownB is more effective in this matchup cause of the after lag from marth.

You CANNOT gimp a marth easily at all w/o risking your life (it's a much greater risk) due to the fact that his UpB comes out nearly instantly, and from what I heard, he has invincablity frames on the beginning parts. 6.5:3.5

ZSS: She outranges you, but she has some bad killing moves. ->B takes a sec to come out and can be dodged well. I can't remember all the killing moves, but I'm fairly certain that most of her aerials become killing moves (Uair is a good killing move, but sort of hard to land). Zss has a small blind spot in most of her atks at about the same spot yoshi has a blind spot (Ironic?). Yoshi can camp in this fight (not literally), and combos her nasty (while she combos you nasty as well). Doing a wave of Bairs back and forth is great pressure against ZSS. Also, her grab is crappy too. So, both players have to use their grabs inteligently. Yoshi can't fight off the edge because of the extra jump she has, while Zss can attempt to use UpB to spike you (I haven't been killed by it much and it's relatively easy to see coming). AND THEY BOTH HAVE TROUBLE KILLING EACH OTHER LOLZ! 5:5

 

[Shiri]

I disagree.

Zero Suit Samus outranges with what...Side+B? Forward air, but she can't short hop it effectively. Forward smash is good, but it's strictly a finisher and a barely effective one at that. Up smash has amazing range, but if you're above Zero Suit Samus, you're doing something wrong because her best move in this matchup is up air and it will rock you, so don't go there, LOL.

DI on her dash attack and jabs is essential to maintaining ground superiority. The reason Yoshi wins this matchup so easily is because it's one of the few where he can constantly stay in his opponent's face and just stuff whatever they do. His weight also helps with pseudo-CC at low percentages leading into jabs and forward tilts. Take massive advantage of Zero Suit's Side+B and use it to close distance, it's almost screaming, "PLEASE COME HIT ME SOME MORE." Watch out for neutral B...the two levels of charge on the stun gun can force early spot dodges which lead to stun which lead to dash attack, and then you get up tilted and everything goes wrong.

If I can be super honest and all joking aside, the one reliable weapon Zero Suit has in this matchup is her Down+B. It's really good and Yoshi straight up cannot beat it and it stops the jump at stupid low percents. It's one of her only ways to both recover and edgeguard in this match and I think it works out very well for her.

The gist of this match is to capture and maintain ground superiority. Zero Suit Samus has a great aerial game, but she has to lead into it. This happens with dash attacks, up tilts, and down smashes, maybe some down throws as well. Don't worry about grabs, just stay in her face. Don't worry about combos, just keep hitting her. Don't worry about KOs, they will come. Just don't let her do anything. This is one of the few matchups where you can seriously go all-out brawler (intelligently, of course) and have it work out for you. Jabs. Lots of them. Tilts, preferably up and forward, not down, as it creates more space than you want. You want to be up close and personal at all available times.

P.S. - I forgot, her forward tilt can trip you, so try not to let too many of them come out.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I would say in the ZSS matchup, ZSS has a slight advantage. Her aerial game is even or slightly better than yours, her ground game is worse, her recovery is about the same, her grabs are more useful in this matchup since she can combo you, and you can't really combo out of grabs with yoshi. Her forwards b has good range, obviously, and it can be strung together with itself if you aren't really careful.

D-tilt can knock you above her which leads to all sorts of comboes, or air chases if you use predictable air dodges. Don't ever get caught in her up-b when she is on the ground, cuz that will lead to a D-smash, which leads to a whole plethora of options for her, or Forward B. For yoshi, camping with eggs is good, because even though ZSS is fast, her dash attack is sub-par. Comboing her is as easy as most characters, but don't get too aggressive. If the ZSS notices your patterns she can adapt quite easily with D-smashes and forward-b.

The main thing i dislike about this match up is Zamus's armor, it is very annoying if the player knows how to use it well. I sometimes lose my first stock to very well timed armor throws that do anywhere from 9-12 damage a hit. If the armor is still bouncing, you can get hit, so don't try to get to it once it just normally lands.

I say 5.5-4.5 ZSS advantage

 

[Deleted member]

Marth doesnt have afterlag on any of his attacks that he uses when u can punish. He pressures with dtilt which has IASA frames like half way through it, so u cant punish it really, and ftilt outranges ur bair(read, all of yoshi's moves). His side b isnt punishable by yoshi, and its really damaging/annoying.

Uhh as for fox's aerial game. In this matchup, id say fox's is better, his dair is rediculous, his fair owns, his uair beats your dair, and his other aerials arent as good as yoshi's but are still quite good. Yoshi has a hard time edgeguarding fox when hes above the stage.

Also. good ZSS players with armor make yoshi sad.

 

[Mmac]

I really, really, really think we should put the .5 rule in effect.

This is what I think the matchup's should be. I put it as the "Easiest to Hardest" formula for cleaner organization

Advantage:
Ganondorf - 7:3
Jigglypuff - 7:3
Captain Falcon - 6.5-3.5
Samus - 6.5:3.5 (I Think we're overestimating her alittle bit)
Wario - 6.5:3.5 (Still think the Infinate should affect this matchup alot more)
Bowser - 6:4
Ice Climbers - 6:4
Lucas - 6:4
Olimar - 6:4
Pokemon Trainer - 6:4
- Squirtle - 7:3
- Ivysaur - 5.5-4.5
- Charizard - 4:6 (He is one hard SOB)
Sonic - 6:4

Neutral:
Fox - 5:5
Ike - 5:5
Kirby - 5:5
Mario - 5:5 (I Think Luigi is much harder than Mario, but thats just me)
Pit - 5:5
Zero Suit Samus - 5:5
Yoshi - 5:5 Ditto
Diddy Kong - 4.5-5.5
Luigi - 4.5:5.5
Meta-Knight - 4.5:5.5
Pikachu - 4.5:5.5

Disadvantage:
Donkey Kong - 4:6 (Range, Speed, and more Range, he's just hard to deal with if you're not careful)
King Dedede- 4:6
Ness - 4:6
Peach - 4:6
Toon Link - 4:6
Wolf - 4:6
Marth - 3.5-6.5
ROB - 3.5:6.5
Snake - 3.5:6.5
Zelda - 3.5:6.5
Falco - 3:7
Mr. Game and Watch - 3:7
Link - 3:7
Lucario - 2.5:7.5*

Sheik - ???

We really need to get working on Sheik

*I dunno, but for me, Lucario is Yoshi's hardest matchup. I always have trouble with the things. In fact, I had to resort to using Falco to deal with them. Even against a Rookie Lucario player, he still gives me trouble against my Yoshi.

 

[SOVAman]

Yoshi has an advantage against Peach. A lot of you think Yoshi has a disadvantage.
I have played many pro Peach's in tournaments and I always win.

Yoshi's advantages:
- destroys Peach in the air because of his priority.
- Yoshi's Bair cancels out Peach's float.
- Yoshi out ranges peach on the ground and in the air.
- Yoshi can simply KO a lot easier then Peach.
- Yoshi is heavier (so he is harder to KO).
- Peach can be easily gimped.
- the egg is simply a better projectile then a turnip.
- both of there recoveries are very good.

I don't know how you can argue against this. So, I think it is a 6:4 advantage against Peach. no doubt.

 

[Kiwikomix]

I PMed Kiwikomix and I think he agrees. But, he says a lot of you think Yoshi has a disadvantage.

Eh? Here's what I actually said:

To tell the truth, I don't know as much about this matchup as, say, bigman, burntsocks, and Shiri do. You might try messaging them or just posting in the thread.
But I do appreciate your input, it's always good to have more opinions.

So I don't have an opinion on the matchup, because I don't have experience playing any Peaches.

 

[SOVAman]

Eh? Here's what I actually said:



So I don't have an opinion on the matchup, because I don't have experience playing any Peaches.

oppps sorry about that I will edit my post

 

[Mmac]

This was my take on Peach on this thread, from about 3 weeks ago

I actually disagree. I actually think the Peach/Yoshi fight is about even. I have only played one Peach main in my entire life, but ****! He was good! When in the air, which she is going to spend most of her time on, Can easily beat Yoshi from the sides with her butt and the sparkling crown of death. She is most venerable from underneath or above, but if she's carrying a Turnip, then she can do that stupid drop thing and combo you. Speaking of, I don't think the Turnip isn't really useful as people say it is as a projectile. It's slow and it doesn't travel really far, and is surprising easy to catch. It's easily outdone by Yoshi's Eggs. However if she pulls out a Zombie Turnip, Bob-omb, or Beam Sword, then you are in huge trouble. That Beam Sword still gives me nightmares ;_;

Anyways, Her ground game is rather limited (This even includes her Float on the ground trick) as they can be all be countered with a pivot grab. Dash = Countered. Float to Fair/Bair = Countered. SideB = Countered. Even a 45 degree approach from the air can be countered with Pivots. Although her ground game is somewhat lacking, she can easily hold her own against air opponents with her Ftilt and Utilt. You also gotta remember that she has Toad, which is a great counter when used well. Her Edgeguarding game may seem deadly, but if you're good at airdodging, then it shouldn't be a problem due to the slow movingness of her float. Edgeguarding Peach however is just as a pain. From what I've seen, most good Peach players use their float to recover and the UpB only as an emergency. You can counter her with an Egg to cancel out the Float, Which should make her easier to spike, but the Best way is to Dair her from straight above where she's the most venerable, and follow up with a Footstool depending if it drag's her.

 

[Deleted member]

The best peach i have played offline is praxis, a really good peach from washington. I won in friendlies, barely, but its definately at least 6-4 peach. I disagree, like ive said, pivots dont shut down anything against good players, just annoy the crap outta them =P Also, llib, what "pro peaches" have you played =P Names pleasies.

On samus: I think samus beats yoshi. Her spam game>yours, she does really well racking up damage when u are mid to far range, and once u get close, she can jab or up b OOS(this is huge, it is what makes the matchup so difficult). The problem is, she can just go right back to zoning u after an up b,

 

[Mmac]

I never really claimed that Pivot Grabs "Shut down" characters (Except Falcon and Ganondorf), but you can't deny that it is a great anti-approach move.

 

[Deleted member]

It is but you do use the term" shut down approaches", and it only shuts down dumb marths running in with fairs =P (i love when marths do that). It does destroy ganny, but not falcon(trust me on this one, good falcons will not be denied their approach from pivot grabs usually)Peach can just hold a turnip when approaching. A good peach should have NO trouble approaching a yoshi at all. Peaches fair beats your bair, her bair owns, she can combo better than u in this matchup(god i hate the unbreakable combos peach has), and she is faster than yoshi in general.

To adress each of mmacs points: Peach isnt vulnerable from below really, due to her amazing dair and how from a dair she can rack up 30+ percent from a combo, and even more now that ur in a bad position. Usmash works pretty well if they are too high though. Turnips arent for spamming, they are for interrupting you and for glide tossing and they are rediculously amazing!!!! Well they are really good anyways, and really annoying when all of your options are blocked by a princess and a vegetable. Like i said, she hold a turnips, and u cant pivot grab else u get owned. Also she can dair u. Like you said, her ftilt is really good, u cant come from above due to utilt(it can even hit from combos), and tunips can be a major pain.

Edgeguarding peach is like not possible imo. Actually if they are far u can go and nair them, but from under its supa hard.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Captain Falcon - 6.5-3.5 If we do .5s, I'd agree with this.
Samus - 6.5:3.5 (I Think we're overestimating her alittle bit) You mean underestimating?
Wario - 6.5:3.5 (Still think the Infinate should affect this matchup alot more) He's very hard to grab, though, considering that he tends to approach with a dair from above.
Ice Climbers - 6:4 I'm starting to think this one is even instead.
Pokemon Trainer - 6:4
- Squirtle - 7:3
- Ivysaur - 5.5-4.5
- Charizard - 4:6 (He is one hard SOB) Agreed on these. I must have forgotten to put them down on the OP, whoops.
Mario - 5:5 (I Think Luigi is much harder than Mario, but thats just me) I'm leaning a lot toward 4:6, just because Shiri makes a good argument on how tough it is.
Zero Suit Samus - 5:5 Still not sure on this, because Shiri (again) gives some good reasons why she's easier.
Diddy Kong - 4.5-5.5 See Falcon.
Luigi - 4.5:5.5 See Falcon.
Meta-Knight - 4.5:5.5 If anything, it's 3.5:6.5. 4:6 still seems accurate imo, because again, it's hard to get him in a position to be grabbed but the fight is still manageable.
Pikachu - 4.5:5.5 See Falcon.
Donkey Kong - 4:6 (Range, Speed, and more Range, he's just hard to deal with if you're not careful) I've started thinking this ever since I posted it as neutral.
Marth - 3.5-6.5 Leaning toward a 3:7 here.
ROB - 3.5:6.5 Nah, 4:6 because approaching him is the only problem, and it's not as hard as many other characters make it.
Snake - 3.5:6.5 See Falcon.
Zelda - 3.5:6.5 See Falcon.
Lucario - 2.5:7.5 Not sure it's THIS hard.

We really need to get working on Sheik. Yes we do. Anyone know any Sheiks they can play to learn more?

Comments in bold.

@ Burntsocks: Her spam game might be more decent if bair and nair didn't outprioritize it. Not to mention that Yoshi is relatively safe approaching from above in this particular matchup, so if she keeps jabbing OOS, just dair her and **** her shield. I will agree that 7:3 was a bit hasty though. Not to mention that Samus gets really flustered once you're mid-range from her, and a running grab will usually do the trick to catch her. Her recovery is really easy to edgeguard as well.

 

[Mmac]

Yes, I did meant underestimating. My bad :S

 

[Deleted member]

Not jabbing oos, up b OOS, which>yoshis dair. She can just shoot a few homing missles and then follow up with a zair. Midrange is where samus is best, retreating homing missles and zairs ftl. Its actually hard to edgeguard because its so unpredictable with bomb jumps, missles to protect her,grapple, and a good up b. Yoshi cant approach through zairs. GG kiwi, leave this to proffesionals(haha jk, ur like the 2nd best mathcup(lol) debater here, besides shiri =P)

 

[Deleted member]

LoL.
Yoshi is trash.
Up-taunt dancing is, hands down, the best taunt in the game. No argument.
I will concede Yoshi's edgeguarding is one of his best aspects and killing is definately the worst aspect of his game (besides OOS game), and pivot grabs don't outclass anything but they can be handy at owning scrubby opponents, and they still are good somtimes. However, they aren't foolproof enough to rely on in any cases(unless ur burntsocks).

Spoiler

burntsocks will now be renamed best yoshi camper besides bwett

I had to make some edits to that post that i didnt adress before.

Double post because bwett and shiri are worth it.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Get with it Stocky, that was about five pages ago.

Plus Yoshi can't be trash, because only 4-5 characters can be trash in one game, and Yoshi definitely isn't one of them.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey no making up rules for how many trash characters in a game. Also, take the lucario thing down right now, its not 7-3, even the lucario boards think its 6-4(and if another character board thinks that matchup is BETTER, then u know something is wrong here).
Lucario can combo, good for him, so can yoshi. Lucario can cg, good for him, dont let him side b grab u(its not like its hard to dodge). Go gimp that sucka, rising nair to reverse down b edgehog. Bye bye lucario. His fsmash is very annoying, cool, empty sh and egg, then go attack him. His ftilt is really good so throw some eggs at midish range, thats where u can abuse them. Hes not really hard to kill, just get him off the stage a lil, and edgehog.

 

[bigman40]

Alright, time for some arguements.

Snake is starting to look like a 6:4 his advantage right now. Bombs can be takened out by eggs, and the lag from his aerials/smashes are punishable. Tilts do cause the biggest problem, but when perfect shielded or pinged it's easier to fight them off. Plus the overuse of them + DI can still make you live to about 150%. Certain bombs from the Usmash can be Naired, and if you have enough time, you can pivot grab the approach. Also, if you can get snake off the map at a low angle, then it'll be easy to force a gimp to happen.

DK is starting to become one of the hardest matchups I see (possibly a 7:3 - DK). While Yoshi can combo him pretty good, DK can just use his range, power, speed to knock the **** out of you. He kills at low %s (has a good wall spike), has a good approach (Bair is fierce, Ftilt is deceptive, and DownB forces aerial approach), great edgeguarding moves, and the wieght makes Yoshi scramble to get an accurate kill off.