Yoshi Matchup Thread

[Kiwikomix]

Since when does Sheik not use chain? I know it wasn't ever used in Melee but in Brawl it's a lot harder to get around.

And if she's approaching you just angle an ftilt to stop an aerial and pivot grab to stop her ground approach. (Yes I know they aren't godly.)

 

[Shiri]

Sheilding a forward tilt actually pushes Yoshi out of range enough to shieldgrab.

In regards to Sheik's tilts, up tilt is a monster, I'll agree.

Down tilt is good, but sees mediocre use depending on playstyle. It doesn't have a place in the Yoshi matchup, though, thanks to no wavedashing from Sheik. Yoshi's down tilt also outranges it, even though Yoshi's will probably be outprioritized most times.

Forward tilt is only okay. It has great range and decent anti-air. The repeated forward tilts are easy enough to get around; DI to Sheik and either end up behind her or footstool off of her. Egg Lay outranges forward tilt, down tilt does, I wish jab did, but yeah; Sheik's tilt game is good in the matchup, but not deadly.

Jabs win Yoshi a good deal of encounters in this matchup simply due to the range and speed; the move is kind of amazing. Sheik's forward airs can cause trouble just like they used to, but because of the lack of killing power, you'll only be put in uncomfortable positions rather than a comfortable death. Sheik still beasts on bad techs and predictable rolls. She also is amazing when people are on the edge trying to get back on the stage. Feel free to underestimate her everywhere except near the edge, she can beast both on and off, even though killing her is as simple as grabbing the ledge as well.

I wish I played this matchup more, it seems pretty fun. I play both characters, but people will rarely play one or the other against either of mine. Oh, and Kiwi is right: chain is amazing, LOL.

 

[Deleted member]

yea but shiek has a guarenteed 2 ftilt to utilt combo. 2 okay and a monsterous attack in 1 combo lol.
I agree, its 5-5, i just didnt think kiwi was doing shiek justice.

Also , chain still sucks =P Its like fox's jab combo, its annoying, but u just DI out and smash him.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Arguing for the sake of arguing, eh?
And Sheik's chain is actually like Pit's sideB in that you can't DI out of it right away to attack. However, it's unlike Pit's sideB in that you can DJ out of it.

 

[Deleted member]

Arguing for the sake of arguing, eh?
And Sheik's chain is actually like Pit's sideB in that you can't DI out of it right away to attack. However, it's unlike Pit's sideB in that you can DJ out of it.

Of course. What else are boards for xD Shieks chain still sucks, i dont care what u say =P I WONT LISTEN! IT SUCKS I TELLZ YOU!

 

[Chaco]

Kiwi you get a cookie, your always so good to type out essays.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Nah, Shiri can do the same thing better.
And it doesn't matter how long the posts are because there will always be a Stocky waiting to tell you you're wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Haha, i luv ur essays kiwi! I just want the matchups to be correct. Besides, no fun everyone agrees now is there =P

 

[Kiwikomix]

LoL, nah, my point was that I usually get all wordy and whatnot whenever I'm talking, and then you say something that's just as intelligent but is only one or two sentences long. It's good though, this thread is for debating, not agreeing.

So are we pretty sold on Sheik 5:5? Or is it somewhere in the 4.5:5.5 or 5.5:4.5 range?

 

[Swordplay]

Did you really just rate Link and game N Watch as your worst matchups at 3:7?

GnW I can understand---he is a good character

Link I can understand too but he isn't that good of a character. Is he really one of your worst matchups?
Is it just because of gale gaurding can own yoshi's recovery? I can see a 4:6 Link but why you have it 3:7 is beyond me and I am a link main.....

 

[bigman40]

Link has a much better camp game to hold Yoshi back, and Yoshi can't even compare to trying to outcamp Link. He has more range than Yoshi. So, A well spaced Link can still wreck a Yoshi before they get too close, and his speed is fast enough to not be able to outbeat the startup lag from Link's atks. Autocanceled aerials (some anyway) lead to standard combo, and that doesn't help Yoshi at all.

It's basically (note, my opinion):
Yoshi's Air > Link
Yoshi's ground < Link
Yoshi camp < Link
Yoshi's recovery > Link

And Link can kill....Yoshi is gonna have trouble landing one of the killing moves that works, unless Yoshi just knocks Link's dmg up to 170% + up every stock.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Unlike Toon Link, who Yoshi can just trade projectile hits with until either character gets frustrated, regular Link's arrows move quickly enough that they're very harassing to Yoshi from far away. Therefore he outcamps Yoshi. It's also a lot harder to approach Link than it is Toonie, given his superior range.
And, like Bigman said, it's difficult to land a KO. If you can actually get Link off the stage it's a lot easier, but otherwise he'll be in the fight for a while.

 

[SOVAman]

Why does Yoshi have an advantage over Lucas and a disadvantage against Ness is it because of the CG on Lucas or is there different reasons. Lucas is stronger then Ness and has more KO moves. While Ness has better Aerials, a throw throw that can KO and B-moves(even though saying his B-moves are better is an opinion). I think Ness is a neutral match up. And if Yoshi has a advantage over Lucas cause of the CG I understand but, if that is not the reason can someone explain.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Ness was put at a 4:6 because, in the air and on the ground, he's a wall of priority that Yoshi often has trouble getting past, where Lucas doesn't have much of anything that can deal with bair. Yoshi can't edgeguard either charaacter really, because Ness' PKT moves faster and Lucas has a tether and whatnot.
But yeah, the CG halpz.

 

[Swordplay]

wow really???? 3:7 Link????

Don't you have something like......A CG against Link???

here is how the projectiles break down--a lot of people on the Link AND TL boards broadly agree with this

Bombs Link>TL
B-Rang Link=TL
Arrows Link<TL

Did Bigman just say he would rather go up against Links arrows than TL's SHDA?
I understand yoshi's egg toss is best used as a counter projectile (besides recovery) to trade hits or block another projectile. but still...

I main Link but I play yoshi a lot. I will take 3:7 but I think the Dino dude deserves more credit.....my opinion and now I will leave and let you debate.

 

[Shiri]

Link is simply a **** matchup.

He's a counterpick character and this is simply one of his counterpicks.

It's pretty frustrating.

 

[SOVAman]

Link is simply a **** matchup.

He's a counterpick character and this is simply one of his counterpicks.

It's pretty frustrating.

I agree I always have lots of trouble with link

 

[Mmac]

On Ness and Lucas, Ness is just plain mean in the air. His airs are just plain mean, having tons of range and are hard to intercept physically. His ground game is also pretty good and can match Yoshi quite well.

Lucas on the otherhand, while having ok and powerful airs, they're easier to get into. They can match Yoshi in the air, but Air to Ground, not so much. Same with his Ground game. Matches Yoshi in the ground, but not in the air. As long as Yoshi plays the opposite game, he should be fine.

Link is pretty much all about Range in this matchup. He's got speed in his Range, and good projectiles to back it up. Yoshi just can't approach Link, nor can he out-camp him, due to his projectiles being plain better. As long as the Link knows what he is doing, then Yoshi will have a very hard time getting hits in. Yes Yoshi has a Chaingrab, but it doesn't help the fact that Link's attack outranges the Grab Range.

I don't know why you think Toon Link's Arrows are better than Link Arrows. Toon Link's are just too slow moving and easy to get out of the way, when they're not charged. Even when it's charged, they're pretty easy to avoid.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Yo Mmac, you've played a Zamus or two... what do you think the ratio should be?
Most people seem to think it's even, but Shiri says it's way in Yoshi's favor. Thoughts?

 

[Scala]

I could see sheik's chain really ****** yoshi's recovery if she dangles it off the edge and starts waving it around~

I think Zamus is about even, your aerials can go through her stun gun but she has a lot of range that can make the fight tricky

TL's arrows are floaty and he can fire them off way faster than link can, that's why I think his arrows are worse.

Ness/Lucas aren't much of a problem once you get them off the ledge. Because yoshi has such an incredible air speed, he can get over there and stop their PK thunder with an aerial (or just get hit by ness's)

 

[Deleted member]

TLs arrows are better,because of SHDA(short hop double arrow), and they arent easy to avoid at all, but besides that link is a better zoner. Plus his zair *****.

Also, on lucas, i think it should be more 5.5-4.5 yoshis favor, after playin a good lucas at the tourny. Lucas revolves around his quick ground game with some strong attacks too.Lucas has like the best jab in the game imo, his ftilt *****, his dtilt is fast, and yea. His nair leads into his ground moves, and he out camps you so yoshi has to approach, which is annoying against lucas, or he can approach with PK fire. I changed my mind, hes gimpable but its tricky, with all that momentum changing stuff. The chain grab makes this matchup slightly in yoshis favor. He beats you on the ground, you beat him in the air, and he doesnt have a great ground to air game which is nice, but he outspams and forces you to approach. 5.5-4.5 imo.

 

[Mmac]

Yo Mmac, you've played a Zamus or two... what do you think the ratio should be?
Most people seem to think it's even, but Shiri says it's way in Yoshi's favor. Thoughts?

I'm still not sure. I want to play a few more just to be sure, but for now, I'll say that it's pretty evenish, slopes towards Yoshi though.

 

[bigman40]

Alright. I played an insane DK main and I gotta say that this is nowhere close to even. DK might be one of the worse cause he shuts down everything Yoshi has at disposal (My thoughts, 7:3 at least). Yeah, you think you can camp him, but Bair pings eggs (idk how, but he wasn't taking the dmg from my eggs), making spam almost useless. Plus, you can't try to take advantage of lag from him (unless he uses a those moves) cause Bair pretty much autocancels, and the speed that shields come up make punishing useless. Grabs are too slow to get off, and trying to use either Bair or Dair are useless since his range can punish you no matter what. Even if you try, you'll either get a Dsmash, or a Ftilt.
DR might be the only way to at least stand a fight (I got it through the range and such some of the times), but it's not enough. Oh yeah, if a DK mastered using the SA frames on the Donkey punch, then your *** is saying goodbye easily.

Yoshi air < DK
Yoshi ground << DK
Yoshi recovery < (or) = DK
Yoshi air < DK ground
Yoshi ground < (or) = DK air
Approaching is out of the question, and camping won't keep him away from you. He's just the awful counter like Link + Falco >_<

 

[Deleted member]

Nah, u just suck. xD jk.

Uhh its not that bad. Was it axelol or something? Yoshi can juggle Dk pretty well, and tho he cant really camp, eggs do help alot just to keep Dk on his toes. Still pretty bad tho. Grabs still work, better than against smaller characters. Sounds to me like u played a good player, not just Dk.

 

[bigman40]

Nah, u just suck. xD jk.

Uhh its not that bad. Was it axelol or something? Yoshi can juggle Dk pretty well, and tho he cant really camp, eggs do help alot just to keep Dk on his toes. Still pretty bad tho. Grabs still work, better than against smaller characters. Sounds to me like u played a good player, not just Dk.

Then you know Master Raven? He was the one who was 2 stocking me the whole time. I couldn't do much against him (only some DRs were able to hit him) cause he could shut down my options really quickly.

 

[SOVAman]

Alright. I played an insane DK main and I gotta say that this is nowhere close to even. DK might be one of the worse cause he shuts down everything Yoshi has at disposal (My thoughts, 7:3 at least). Yeah, you think you can camp him, but Bair pings eggs (idk how, but he wasn't taking the dmg from my eggs), making spam almost useless. Plus, you can't try to take advantage of lag from him (unless he uses a those moves) cause Bair pretty much autocancels, and the speed that shields come up make punishing useless. Grabs are too slow to get off, and trying to use either Bair or Dair are useless since his range can punish you no matter what. Even if you try, you'll either get a Dsmash, or a Ftilt.
DR might be the only way to at least stand a fight (I got it through the range and such some of the times), but it's not enough. Oh yeah, if a DK mastered using the SA frames on the Donkey punch, then your *** is saying goodbye easily.

Yoshi air < DK
Yoshi ground << DK
Yoshi recovery < (or) = DK
Yoshi air < DK ground
Yoshi ground < (or) = DK air
Approaching is out of the question, and camping won't keep him away from you. He's just the awful counter like Link + Falco >_<

I agree I have also played a DK main thats pretty good. I play him a lot thou. I can try to record one of our matches for the people that never played a DK can see what he can do.

 

[Scala]

Dude... Did you play that DK online because that might be a MAJOR reason why you're having issues against him, just like how Ike is a beast online but is terrible offline. I've played some good DKs offline and I don't see what the issue is

 

[bigman40]

Dude... Did you play that DK online because that might be a MAJOR reason why you're having issues against him, just like how Ike is a beast online but is terrible offline. I've played some good DKs offline and I don't see what the issue is

It's the only way I can get my information OR play anyone. I probably need to play the matchups more (too many Yoshi dittos) >_<

 

[Mmac]

Hmmm.... Should Charizard be 5:5 instead? I think he's pretty hard, but it seems to be another case of "Lucario" where I just have trouble dealing with him, but nobody else agrees with me

 

[Kiwikomix]

So I think I'm gonna put both Sheik and Zamus as 5:5, just because everyone seems to be converging on that (except Shiri, of course ).

Edit: Nah, Mmac, it's still pretty difficult because he outkills you by a mile and his aerial game is about equal with yours.

Edit 2: w00t! That's every character.

 

[Miamisportsfan45]

Dude... Did you play that DK online because that might be a MAJOR reason why you're having issues against him, just like how Ike is a beast online but is terrible offline. I've played some good DKs offline and I don't see what the issue is

I was wondering why I was beginning to find Ike decently fast recently... lol. Same goes with Ganondorf.

 

[Shiri]

That's fine, Kiwi. I know you never loved me, anyway.

 

[Kiwikomix]

</3

Trust me, if I have second thoughts you'll be the first to know.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yay its complete!

 

[Mmac]

Yay its complete!

Not really, we still gotta debate on some. After playing a good Pit (Try to get it recorded, but it crashed ;_; ) He's actually pretty hard to deal with. I don't think it's even.

Plus we still gotta look indepth in some of them. Examples:

ZSS 6:4?

Sheik 4.5+?

Sonic 5.5:4.5?

MetaKnight 4.5:5.5?

 

[Deleted member]

Nah 4-6 MK. I think the majority agree, and the facts point to it.

 

[Mmac]

Nah 4-6 MK. I think the majority agree, and the facts point to it.

Your finial analysis on MK was 4.5:5.5 too... and I don't think anything has changed in the past month... why the sudden change?

 

[Deleted member]

O uhhh, i dont remember that being my final analysis. Ive been to like 3 tournies in the last month, i dunno, more experience helps =P

I usually beat Mks, but only cuz they lack yoshi experience i think.

 

[Mmac]

I usually beat Mks, but only cuz they lack yoshi experience i think.

Hmmm..... that might be true....

 

[Deleted member]

Hmmm..... that might be true....

And not just lack yoshi experience. Yoshi isnt exactly an easy character to figure out, hes pretty confusing, so even if theyve played yoshis before, they still might not know yoshis weaknesses, while as a yoshi, knowing MKs weaknesses is pretty important. We have to assume they know the matchup as well as us when talking about matchups, even tho it might not always play out that way. Agreed?