"Yom-Bum!" The Yoshi Film Analysis Channel.

[ShroudedOne]

This character is really, really, really technical, and I respect you guys a lot (even though I could never play Yoshi).

I just feel like I had to say that.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Yoshi indefinitely is one of the highest learning curve characters in this game.

 

[Veetaak]

It feels like playing Yoshi would be like playing another game

 

[ShroudedOne]

Not sure if I could say more technical than a spacie, but definitely close.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Not sure if I could say more technical than a spacie, but definitely close.

Yoshi, with his glaring weaknesses, high learning curve, and poor defensive options, sounds much harder to play then Fox or Falco. It's not all about button inputs.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Yoshi, with his glaring weaknesses, high learning curve, and poor defensive options, sounds much harder to play then Fox or Falco..

Then you could say that Kirby is the hardest character to play. Learning curve and difficulty to play are two different things, Yoshi (and all the DJC characters) are really to play and have steep learning curves though.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Then you could say that Kirby is the hardest character to play.

How? Kirby is not nearly as good as Yoshi, let alone space animals.

Learning curve and difficulty to play are two different things,

They are? Sounds similar to me. Learning how to fully execute a limited characters options, in spite of glaring weaknesses, accounts to learning curve, which then proceeds to affect difficulty when playing several matchups.

Yoshi (and all the DJC characters) are really to play and have steep learning curves though.

You're missing a descriptive adjective. "Really what to play?"

But yeah.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think he meant "really hard to play."

 

[V3ctorMan]

New Videos... just trying to give the thread some life...

Miss you guys

EDIT: Fixed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NnhQfj1kA

 

[ChivalRuse]

I miss your Yoshi!

 

[Mind Trick]

link doesnt work...

 

[V3ctorMan]

Fixed ^^ thanks again guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NnhQfj1kA

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAbzDxVMhI

Been playing yoshi for about a week. I was up for 3 days when this set happened o.0.

 

[Nogzor'z]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtAbzDxVMhI

Been playing yoshi for about a week. I was up for 3 days when this set happened o.0.

First of all, kudos on being up for 3 days, lol.
I don't think I've ever made it past 48 hours.

Onto your set... you had really nice movement. While you had some nice hits with DJC Nair and Fair, I saw some that were too high and left you very vulnerable to be gimped (whether or not you did get gimped).

Another thing that had me thinking was your lack of ground game. While yoshi has great aerial abilities (and your's was pretty nice) don't completely disregard ground approaches and simple wave dashes in and out. Being proficient in using yoshi's quick jabs and tilts can be immensely helpful when on stages like FD or FoD (with the platforms in the ground), or when your opponent has a superior aerial to space with, like Doc's Bair.

I also noticed some shield releases that i can only assume are messed up L-cancels and other tech stuff, But that's probably more due to lack of sleep

Anyways, sorry if I'm a bit too general. Surely you would review your matches and capitalize on correcting mistakes regardless of my/other players advice.

Good Stuff, Fearless. Keep posting Vids, man.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Ha, those shield releases were from a sticky r button (I use R to wavedash\shield).

You are right, though. I have much experimentation to do with yoshi's ground game. I've discovered a way to cancel dashing instantly into anything (including dashing the other direction which means no limits on dash dancing length :D). Simply jump twice fast enough so yoshi comes to a sudden halt in the middle of any dash. I've noticed it's particularly effective for his retreating\zoning game (dash away -> instantly turn around and grab\ftilt\dsmash\dashattack\etc) and platform game (when yoshi is dash dancing on a platform the opponent automatically assumes he's about to try some kind of ariel maneuver, but instead get a nice f-tilt to the face). This technique I BELIEVE is a couple frames faster than crouch cancelling a dash, as well. I'm going to record a bunch of matches in a few days, and I'll pick apart all the times I use it. I'm sure this tech is already known about, but I haven't seen any applications in vectorman\fumi vids that I can recall.

 

[Mind Trick]

Ha, those shield releases were from a sticky r button (I use R to wavedash\shield).

You are right, though. I have much experimentation to do with yoshi's ground game. I've discovered a way to cancel dashing instantly into anything (including dashing the other direction which means no limits on dash dancing length :D). Simply jump twice fast enough so yoshi comes to a sudden halt in the middle of any dash. I've noticed it's particularly effective for his retreating\zoning game (dash away -> instantly turn around and grab\ftilt\dsmash\dashattack\etc) and platform game (when yoshi is dash dancing on a platform the opponent automatically assumes he's about to try some kind of ariel maneuver, but instead get a nice f-tilt to the face). This technique I BELIEVE is a couple frames faster than crouch cancelling a dash, as well. I'm going to record a bunch of matches in a few days, and I'll pick apart all the times I use it. I'm sure this tech is already known about, but I haven't seen any applications in vectorman\fumi vids that I can recall.

tilting out of dash is really really good and should be implemented a lot more, that and shielddrop as leffen has been hammering on, its even better as yoshi because he can't be poked when in his shield on a platform.

 

[strawhats]

tilting out of dash is really really good and should be implemented a lot more, that and shielddrop as leffen has been hammering on, its even better as yoshi because he can't be poked when in his shield on a platform.

Apex 2012...will you be there ?

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

GOD DAMNIT WHY IS YOSHI THE MOST TECHNICAL CHARACTER IN THE GAME

seriously... so much tech ****

 

[leffen]

^
OMG THIS.

I recorded some Yoshi footage with friendlies vs Hack's Fox, it will be up any day.
I lost a bit more than I won, which is to be expected since I have been focusing on Fox for the moment, but still, I feel that the videos will disappoint :/ A lot of missed wavelands, SDs, spamming dash attack/fair mindlessly etc. Oh well.

EDIT:

Using shield to stop momentum during dash attacks so that you can space better (CF style) is really **** with Yoshi since he'll parry any attacks that hit him during the shield.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

I should have some freshhhh vids up soon. My combos are getting cleaner, as are my edgeguards. I'm starting to take games off of better players and slowly but surely working my way up there. One thing I've noticed is that yoshi takes SEVERELY more time to warm up with than any other character I've played\mained in the last 3 years. It takes an hour minimum before I'm up to speed and feeling comfortable.


A couple things I NEVER see in vids that I'm implementing more and more (in order of how often I see other yoshis implementing them from least to most):

-Double Jump Dash Cancel (DJDC? idk what to call it haha). Cancelling dashes instantly has SO many uses and I keep finding more and more. I'm definitely going to compile all the times I utilize it in a video. It adds a whole layer to yoshi's baiting game.

-DJC nair shield pressure. Yoshi can weave in and out of shields with rapid turnaround nairs pretty safely. I've seen this somewhat in vids, but not nearly as fast as possible. I've been practicing shield pressure with Action Replay (set opponent to infinitely have a full shield) and i'm finding good alternatives to ****** shields other than grab. This is important because yoshis grab doesn't do a WHOLE lot vs non fast fallers. For example, landing a nair on marth is much more advantageous than a grab (correct me if I'm wrong please). And not to mention, missing a really fast nair is nothing compared to missing a grab . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izCmIBB1al4 here's a good example. Vman's nairs are spaced\timed very well, but there were a handful of times where if they were done a couple frames faster, better pressure could be had. (for example at 3:33ish he lands a nair but fox escapes)

-Perfectly fast djc u-airs. I see them once in a while in vector vids, but not nearly as perfect as they can be. Take a look at the first stock of the second game in that vid I posted above, for example. See how bad uair timing almost cost him a combo? (luckily he's vman and regrabbed like a boss)

-Using double jump as an air parry to land arials. I'm finding this is key in the falcon matchup, and pretty much shuts ganon down entirely. I've gotten past fox's dair about half the time with it. In the vid at 6:02ish, he superarmours through shiek but passes up a free punish.




So yeah, please post feedback! I want to know why I don't see more of these techs. Are they not as useful as I think?

 

[leffen]

One thing I've noticed is that yoshi takes SEVERELY more time to warm up with than any other character I've played\mained in the last 3 years. It takes an hour minimum before I'm up to speed and feeling comfortable.

omfg this.

I think DJcanceling your run is really overrated, it doesnt really add anything at all. Crouch canceling a dash is faster and better 99% of the time, WDing->tilts is faster than dash -> djl tilt.
The only thing I can see myself using it outside of canceling a parry is when you want to use it instead of a pivot to stop a dashdance with a spaced Dtilt/Ftilt.

I use DJC nairs on shield a lot (as well as bairs, 99% shieldpoke after 1 nair on shield). Thing is that his nair isnt that safe on paper so I use mixup the timing to make them guess more (nair->jab-> delayed jab, nair-> jump-> wait-> nair late so you catch them when they try to get oos).
Using DJ-> dair (autocancel) is also hella **** since you can easily make them whiff their answer to your nairs.

Vs Spacies/CF (+marth/sheik) you really want that grab so use shield pressure to condition them into shield and to catch them when they try to move out of their shield and once they are stuck in shield you get that grab.

Vs everyone else you just try to get em to do anything else than shield or to shield poke and you can mix in the occasional egg lay/grab but it should be used sparingly.

-Perfect double jumps Uair is something that I love ;D But I also noticed Vman uses his uair a little badly. I think that its 100% vital to be able to react(not predict) with a Uair when tech chasing on platforms, it really makes comboing spacies so much easier once you've learned it.


sorry for this messy post, my vids should be up anytime now.

EDIT: Feel free to check out the State of the game podcast airing tonight, I'll be on there and I'll make sure to talk some Yoshi ****

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

Sounds interesting, link to podcast?
By the way, DJCing your dash is faster than crouch canceling and wavedashing (I tested).

 

[leffen]

www.twitch.tv/peefsmash I think, check the thread in general disc.

and DJL is ~ 8 frames while crouch cancel is ~3 and wavedash has lag but only at the start of your movement ;o

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

What is DJL? double jump landing? there is no way it should take you 8 frames...?

 

[yoshiiscool]

Yoshi doesn't leave the ground from his jump until like frame 6 or so, so yea... I can see why it's around 8 frames.

Also good talk leffen, I agree with everything you said in your post. I should try d-airing a bit more in my pressure too.

I really like n-air pressure, but like leffen said, it needs to be mixed up a lot, because it's really not all that safe. I really like to try to use my mobility to try to DJC through their shield with a n-air and land behind if at all possible, but even that isn't always safe (shine out of shield is an example, as well as a samus/bowser up-b). You also have to just be really careful to make it a powerful n-air. Most of my pressure starts with spaced f-airs/b-airs though, I feel like throwing out intelligent and well-spaced f-airs/b-airs are a great way to get your opponent in a defensive state to either continue pressure with n-airs/grab/whatever, or bait the roll/spot dodge. You can even bait a jump out of shield, and super armor through whatever they try to make it safe with.

N-air's a great move, but I think it's only really a good option when you have the opponent in a situation where they are already shielding, and have no option but to shield. The hitbox is kinda ***, and it's really easy to CC, and everything besides the initial hit is completely punishable(even on hit), and doesn't give you anything. I've actually had people drop shield during my pressure, just to be able to CC the n-air to punish, which made me a sad panda. Just saying be careful, but maybe I just suck.

On a kinda related pressure note, has anybody played around with jab cancel with Yoshi? I've thought about it before, since I've seen how great it can work with Samus, but never actually put much effort into trying it out myself.

About the super armor thing fearless... err just be careful with it. Once people you're around get more accustomed to Yoshi, they'll start looking out for that kinda ****, and end up punishing you for it, instead of the other way around. Also, it doesn't really shut down ganondorf, because ganondorf has so much range and power you won't be able to even jump through more than a couple attacks per stock, not to mention the range will keep you at bay even when you jump through, since you won't be able to punish well (you can't hit him with a fresh n-air from his f-air range.) Now what DOES kill ganondorf, is parrying. His **** is some of the easiest bull**** in the world to parry, not to mention your crouch going underneath his jab and (standing)grab... it's almost a stupid easy matchup once you're used to that, but pretty hard if you're just trying to jump through his ****... at least vs a good ganondorf. That became a bit too char specific, but my point is that relying on super armor can be abusable, but if you're not careful, can really really hurt you.

On a side note, does anyone know how I can stop hating this game? I just haven't felt like playing at all over the past month or so, it's lost its appeal almost completely. Even when I do play, I can't bring myself to bother warming up with Yoshi, who's the only character I've ever even enjoyed playing, so I end up ****ing off with other chars and start thinking how much of a **** game this is, and how much I wanna play other games. xD

 

[Nogzor'z]

Leffen and Moo really throwing out solid tactics/advice/refreshers for yoshi players. Very Useful in specific and general ways.
awesome stuff guys :D

@-Moo: Not really sure what to say about yoshi's jab cancel. I mean, I just see it as another mix up during shield pressure (though I dont think I use it much).
*and I completely agree with your thoughts on the ganon match-up

 

[V3ctorMan]

^Yoshi's jab cancel works very nicely... used in my sets vs Hbox, and many Puff players... has it's great uses..I highly recommend for certain matchups! ^^

@Moo- play Yoshi to make me happy ^^ i like watching Yoshi players... Hoping you, leffen, angel and peepz upload... I'm getting lonely being the lone Yoshi w/videos..

 

[leffen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUJ_MBvbukk

here are some recent ones..

please dont critique and DONT copy my playstyle, I played DISGUSTINGLY bad and I couldnt parry, wavedash, dashdance, lcancel or waveland at ALL. Everything just became airdodges, rolls and dash attacks lol. I was really sleep deprived but still :/
I'm really disappointed that this is the horrible quality when I can finally upload some... I promise you guys that ill have better vids up soon


but watch 9:35

 

[V3ctorMan]

Haha, good stuff Leffen, Definetely have seen better of your Yoshi.. You got this man! ^^

Well I suppose if Leffen uploads some vs spacies... I'll upload matches vs the other chars... so I'll have some up by the end of the night perhaps....

Still good stuff Leffen! ^^

Needs more videos.. all Yoshi players ^^

 

[Mind Trick]

video removed..? gaaaaaaaaah

 

[leffen]

Coming back soon with one more yoshi vid :=

 

[Nogzor'z]

Coming back soon with one more yoshi vid :=

cant wait. ;D

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

sooooooooooon I shall be blowing all of your minds with my one month yoshi vids

 

[darkgirku]

One month and a half now
o:
lol

 

[Mind Trick]

needs more vids, less announcing of said vids

 

[leffen]

If you are talking about me I thought ppl saw it on ajpantons channel;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms8mhb14uoI

still, I dont like the videos but w/e lol

ill try to get some new up asap, tourney in 2 weeks and maybe next week

 

[V3ctorMan]

Good stuff Leffen, and yeah you already linked those in an earlier thread.. good stuff ^^

Well, I was hoping someone else would upload, cuz everytime I do, it's nearly nothing new, and or everyone's already used to what I do or have done... but I guess, i'll give it a go...

Either way Last videos from me (Maybe) until my Roy is up to speed... Here ya'll go... Keep up the Yoshi work, I have high hopes in all of your Yoshi's, I know you wont let me down ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEn0LbuAVq0

 

[oxydus]

yoshi improvement center

could you guys give me some tips on making my yoshi better i know were noobs thats why i want to get better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4urQScfPKw all matches with yoshi are me
i know the quality isnt too good but bear with me we didnt have good equipment

 

[Yo$himan]

could you guys give me some tips on making my yoshi better i know were noobs thats why i want to get better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4urQScfPKw all matches with yoshi are me
i know the quality isnt too good but bear with me we didnt have good equipment

I believe one of the main things you should do is to practice yoshi's movement. Here is Mind Trick's tech skill video to give you some ideas and insight as to what yoshi can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txtYPiWzCWE

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

-quality is pretty bad, I'm gunna torrent pinnacle studio next time my roommates are out which will drastically improve the frame-rate and I'll actually have sound
-gahtzu is FL's best falcon main(pretty much the only falcon better than his is colins) and my primary training partner which will become apparent in the vids as he knows more about the MU than anyone else I've played in FL so far.
-rekrul is an up and coming player (hes only been playing for a year, rarely at that, but has lately been stepping it up in tourney)
-coal boll is cole ball
-hozart is a top player in CFL, who mains IC and seconds shiek.
-keep in mind these matches are experimental, my tournament play is much campier (pretty much stay on platforms all day until they do something dumb, will post nearly complete in depth analysis of this strategy soon-ish). i tried to be especially random while recording as to get the best possible feedback on various situations.
-im especially looking for moments to land d-tilt gimps that im missing, as well as when I should be grabbing. must learn every possible d-tilt mindgame.....
-‎"How do green dinosaur's talk about babes? YoSHI was soo hawt last night!!" -Kelvin Ong (thought id share that gem)
-the real way to crash-course becoming a yoshi main : http://i56.tinypic.com/2a0lqhw.jpg totally worth the time it took to make it loool but seriously this desktop has been pretty helpful

vs gahtzu's falcon 1+2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh6dHteePy4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYkagyL3y8k

falco vs rekrul's falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCH0FMbudcE

vs hozart's shiek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF2NdsAk7NI

vs rekrul's marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXd3VcNmsKE

vs colbol's marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yO8N0K984