YGD - As the snow melts, the mighty Dinosaur rises once more!

[Z'zgashi]

But hey, at least Yoshi and Ness are better than Lucas amiright Chuee?

 

[Chuee]

But hey, at least Yoshi and Ness are better than Lucas amiright Chuee?

Zgashi I know you love Yoshi and try to make him seem good because you have feelings for him
but
Lucas sucks

 

[Z'zgashi]

My feelings for Yoshi are deeper than the sea.

 

[Chuee]

My feelings for Yoshi are deeper than deep.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

My feelings for Yoshi are about as deep as those feelings you get for the guy/girl who is irritating as all hell but they're so damn cute you try to repress that irritation

 

[Chuee]

My feelings for Yoshi are about as deep as those feelings you get for the guy/girl who is irritating as all hell but they're so damn cute you try to repress that irritation

You don't love Yoshi like me.
I am the only one suitable for Yoshi's well being.

 

[RaptorTEC]

I actually worship Yoshi.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've had that for awhile now, and also the fact i've seen worse on YoshiArt.

Also... Must I take a picture of all the Yoshi stuff I have?
I EVEN HAVE A SCARF. DESPITE KNOWING HOW BAD IT WAS, I STILL SPENT $20 ON IT!

 

[Steam]

Yoshi is adowable

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Guess what you guys are watching for the next half hour

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Yoshi is adowable

 

[Chuee]

Guess what you guys are watching for the next half hour

Noooooope.
Yoshi dittos.
Do not like.

 

[Sinister Slush]

...My Little Pony Friendship is Magic?

If my internet allowed me too, i'd watch the entire thing.

 

[Chuee]

My Little Epona

 

[Yink]

My feelings for Yoshi are deeper than deep.

So there's a hole?

 

[Chuee]

So there's a hole?

Not quite.
My love for Yoshi has no holes.

 

[Sharky]

My Little Epona

don't you dare drag Epona into this

 

[RaptorTEC]

I just signed the petition to get MK banned. I feel like I did my part as a Yoshi. =]

 

[Z'zgashi]

^ I was the second person to ever sign that petition. The only one who beat me to it was the guy who started it lol. :3c

 

[F-Tier Player]

As boring it is to see MK place top in tons of tournaments, banning him will only result in the same players winning tournaments, except playing Diddy, Snake, Wario, etc. There will always be broken characters and there will always be broken players. What to do then? How do you find balance?

 

[Delta-cod]

I didn't put the link there to have people sign to ban MK. The point was to get everyone here to see it so they could put down their opinion since I feel that the results may be important. It isn't your part as a low tier main to want him banned, it's up to you as a person, and how you feel about the game. I would never advocate banning him just because he's MK and we main Yoshi and MK da bess and we're not so we lose.

 

[Scatz]

As boring it is to see MK place top in tons of tournaments, banning him will only result in the same players winning tournaments, except playing Diddy, Snake, Wario, etc. There will always be broken characters and there will always be broken players. What to do then? How do you find balance?

I find better balance when I'm not losing to people winning with a character that severely inflates a person's skill to where they're not putting in as much work, or much less work to the point of only doing very basic things in this game as almost every other character has to learn when starting out. When you're legitimately being outplayed, you're not going to get pissed by that. It's not the same losing to an MK that camps you hard enough to where you could barely do anything that wasn't so dangerous to the point of killing yourself or letting the timer run to where you'd get timed out.

Finding balance doesn't mean getting perfect perfect balance either, but having it as close as possible means better depth and more variety. The mediocre masses of the smash scene (known as pot fillers unfortunately) at least want to be entertained when losing to better players, but without variety, you slowly kill the scene because people get tired of seeing the EXACT same thing over and over. Even though there would be slightly more characters placing in top 8, the skill inflation would decrease between characters. That causes more upsets, which creates more hype and brings in more people. Bringing in more people brings in more money, which attracts serious business people that can increase the community even further (and that's including Sakurai's hate towards the competitive scene probably).

Coming back to balance, there would be more depth within the counterpicking system since there wouldn't be a staple character as your main/secondary (Diddy might be there only one to negate this claim). Digesting that information, you now have to plan your strategy with the stages. Conservative stagelists minimizes how much you'll have to cover while liberal stage lists will make you learn how the stage works AND how it affects your character moreso than static stages that are flat and monotonous like FD. You'd have to design your strategy much more delicately and intricately to manage the matchups and statges, and since they're not guaranteed like MK makes most matchups or negates how most stages work against other characters, you'll end up showing more skill, knowledge, and experience from playing the game with better depth.

Players may be broken with other characters, but you wouldn't be able to know unless they showed after MK would be banned. For one, you wouldn't be seeing people try to easy button their way to MK during a set when they believe their main can't win. M2k would have to work more with another character that's not dumb***ly (yes, I made that word up) inflating skills to the point where the opposing player with another character has to be almost robot-like to have a chance at just beating him in a set (which for the most part, goes to the timer on most occasions). There wouldn't be exactly the same players winning every time since now more players would be able to shine through without the fear of having to play five times harder against MK than other matchups (save for their extremely bad ones).

Idk about you, but I, for one, want MK banned so that I'm actually able to truly see my skills against more fair characters in this game than just seeing who beats MK. from 2009 to now, it's been about who beats MK and who loses to MK. Everything else barely matters unless that character is top/high tier in which they have to beat other top/high tiers.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

As boring it is to see MK place top in tons of tournaments, banning him will only result in the same players winning tournaments, except playing Diddy, Snake, Wario, etc. There will always be broken characters and there will always be broken players. What to do then? How do you find balance?

As far as brawl is concerned MK is the only broken character so once he's gone we get rid of that. As for Broken players, i'd much rather see a broken player use a fair character and outplay the **** out of someone than mindless autopiloting MK BS until they get enough of a lead to time the other guy out.

Just look at this and tell me with a straight face that any other top tier will reach that level of dominance. See heres another thing, people seem to not even be sure what character will "take over" when MK is gone, some people said Marth (LOL) a few people said D3 others say Snake, D3, Wario (you get the point).

Instead of one character CONSTANTLY taking more than half of the community's money, i'd much rather see 7 other characters split it. Most of these characters even have evenish to losing matchups vs some mid tiers too. I cant see a MK ban being anything but good for the metagame.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Broken player? I'm right here.

 

[F-Tier Player]

@Delta: We lose because of ourselves. Confidence(self, regardless of character) + Knowledge(basic) + Comfort(tournaments attended) + Stability > MU

@Scatz/Celes: So you're saying that we've come to a dead point and can't advance any character's metagame unless we get rid of MK? True, talented players would not know who to choose at first, but it's when results will begin to look like Top 8 at Apex: 5 Diddys & 3 Snakes or Top 8 at Genesis III: 5 Warios & 3 Falcos, etc that you will probably say that that character is overpowered/overused and this whole ban will have lost its luster.

Besides, let's thank MK for bringing us this far into the metagame, learning how to play it safely and not recklessly.

 

[Zajice]

Hey Yoshi's how's it go-

 

[AlexoftheAura]

I just signed the petition to get MK banned. I feel like I did my part as a Yoshi. =]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyFQVZ2h0V8&feature=youtu.be

 

[Scatz]

@Delta: We lose because of ourselves. Confidence(self, regardless of character) + Knowledge(basic) + Comfort(tournaments attended) + Stability > MU

@Scatz/Celes: So you're saying that we've come to a dead point and can't advance any character's metagame unless we get rid of MK? True, talented players would not know who to choose at first, but it's when results will begin to look like Top 8 at Apex: 5 Diddys & 3 Snakes or Top 8 at Genesis III: 5 Warios & 3 Falcos, etc that you will probably say that that character is overpowered/overused and this whole ban will have lost its luster.

I've never said that we've came to a complete dead point for other characters, but there's a huge slowdown in the other metagames because they're not close to the level MK is. Getting rid of MK will develop the rest of the characters more of course because there's no easy button to go to.

True, talented players would not know who to choose at first, but it's when results will begin to look like Top 8 at Apex: 5 Diddys & 3 Snakes or Top 8 at Genesis III: 5 Warios & 3 Falcos, etc that you will probably say that that character is overpowered/overused and this whole ban will have lost its luster.

You don't know how it's going to end up, but making random assumptions about how top 8 at nationals are going to look like isn't helping your argument. I don't assume that I know how it will end up either. I simply stated that every other character can be countered with the exception of MK because he doesn't lose a single matchup.

Besides, let's thank MK for bringing us this far into the metagame, learning how to play it safely and not recklessly.

I don't have to thank MK for that. MK wasn't the one that makes me play safer and/or time people out. If you can't learn how to play safe, then you'll lose either way. This game isn't aggressive friendly.

@Alex: Rofl, I just saw that in the Pika boards.

 

[F-Tier Player]

I've never said that we've came to a complete dead point for other characters, but there's a huge slowdown in the other metagames because they're not close to the level MK is. Getting rid of MK will develop the rest of the characters more of course because there's no easy button to go to. You don't know how it's going to end up, but making random assumptions about how top 8 at nationals are going to look like isn't helping your argument. I don't assume that I know how it will end up either. I simply stated that every other character can be countered with the exception of MK because he doesn't lose a single matchup.

Let's try and just think about Yoshi and how it will benefit us, not the rest of the cast. We have a slightly decent chance against MK, we have some good stage cps, but because there are so few Yoshi mains that actually want to advance the metagame is hurting what you are regarding as a better fighting chance in the competitive scene. How much more interest will there be in characters below high tier? Sure there will be easier MUs to play in tournaments, but what's really going to change the top players from not choosing an easy-to-learn character and still winning $$? You'll probably get worse headaches over losing to say Snake's tilt spam after you banned MK. I am looking at this as to how it may end up, not really how it will help when examining better countering, and you are also assuming things will end up favoring the rest of the cast too. This is what this whole debate is about: We have to assume things will look better for the community.

 

[RaptorTEC]

The thing with MK is, that I feel it's completely unfair that certain players are able to beat others, just for the fact that they have SO many options with their broken character. For non MK mains, this game turns into a game of who is able to play against MK the best.

On a side note, it's ridiculous how many MK's there are here. If you don't know the matchup, you're done.

 

[Scatz]

Let's try and just think about Yoshi and how it will benefit us, not the rest of the cast.

I'm not trying to be bias and do it for just Yoshi. I'm saying ban him for the community. There is more and more people quitting because of MK solely. If you want to do it just for Yoshi, then go ahead. I'm going for more balance and diversity rather than letting this game sit there and further degrade into MK vs MK in the future. Yet, this has already happened to an extent considering that just about every national this year has been MK vs MK.

We have a slightly decent chance against MK, we have some good stage cps

Please explain how. I already know we have a better MU against MK than other characters do. Also, it still promotes my point. The metagame right now is about how to beat MK and whether you lose/win vs him.

but because there are so few Yoshi mains that actually want to advance the metagame is hurting what you are regarding as a better fighting chance in the competitive scene.

And who's fault is that? I'm not directing this completely to Yoshi mains when I stated that other metagames would flourish more because you're not going to easy button mode MK.

How much more interest will there be in characters below high tier? Sure there will be easier MUs to play in tournaments, but what's really going to change the top players from not choosing an easy-to-learn character and still winning $$?

People are always going to do this with the exception of people that have loyalty over money. That is fact. I merely used what matchups are labeled as in other boards and on the official matchup chart to state that there's more depth since you're not being forced to go MK or stay your main and have a chance at losing through timeouts.

You'll probably get worse headaches over losing to say Snake's tilt spam after you banned MK.

Why would I get mad about Snake when I know he actually has a definite weakness compared to MK? Snake's tilts aren't as safe as MK's aersenal (with the possible exception to Snake's Utilt), and adding to that, everyone knows that Snake has a massive problem when trying to land back onto the stage for stage control.

I am looking at this as to how it may end up, not really how it will help when examining better countering, and you are also assuming things will end up favoring the rest of the cast too. This is what this whole debate is about: We have to assume things will look better for the community.

As I said above, I'm not using assumption to make my judgment on whether MK being banned would benefit the community or not. I stated matchups because that's information that's given to us right now. Looking at how it may end up is pointless when you have virtually no information to even back any points you make. You're making the slippery slope argument that stated when MK gets banned, (insert character here) would be near the level of brokenness as MK and would need to get banned. Then after (insert character here) is banned, then someone else would be broken and needs to get banned. The matchup chart negates this claim as we have proof that it's not the same (as I said earlier, the only character to possibly make this an exception is Diddy).

This isn't about just the Yoshi boards and us as Yoshi mains trying to improve our chances at winning. I'm fully aware that more of our actual bad matchups would come and still rock our character.

 

[Boomer3d]

For me I personally think that metaknight should not be banned, but I do think some sort of restriction should be put into it. One thing that I know I would be happy with is if each person could only use metaknight only 1 game out of 3 or 2 out of 5. That way, a person has to win at least one match with a evener character. This would allow metaknight to be played, but not overused as much.

My problem with banning metaknight is he is programmed in the game. It's that same reason why I don't complain about ice climbers. I just don't like the idea of banning a character.

From a yoshi standpoint, I'm pretty comfy with the MU, depending on the stage of course, so I'm fine whatever the final vote is. There are definetly harder MU then metaknight ( such as Lucario) so banning him won't really make it any easier or harder for me.

 

[Yink]

I'd be sad seeing MK go from my character's standpoint, because Ness pretty much thrives on the fact that MK takes care of Marth and DDD. At the end of the day though, it's selfish of me to want him around just so Ness can win more in some senses, so if this is what the community wants and if it's that detrimental to us then I'm all for anything.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

So much respect Yink.

I don't like that post.

I ****ing love it.

 

[Scatz]

For me I personally think that metaknight should not be banned, but I do think some sort of restriction should be put into it. One thing that I know I would be happy with is if each person could only use metaknight only 1 game out of 3 or 2 out of 5. That way, a person has to win at least one match with a evener character. This would allow metaknight to be played, but not overused as much.

My problem with banning metaknight is he is programmed in the game. It's that same reason why I don't complain about ice climbers. I just don't like the idea of banning a character.

From a yoshi standpoint, I'm pretty comfy with the MU, depending on the stage of course, so I'm fine whatever the final vote is. There are definetly harder MU then metaknight ( such as Lucario) so banning him won't really make it any easier or harder for me.

Nitpicking is what got us here in the first place lmao. You can't limit a character to the point where MK is only allowed to be used a certain amount of times. It doesn't change much in the end, and it shows that people can't handle making judgment calls when it comes down to it.

ICs are nowhere as close to being broken as MK.

I'd be sad seeing MK go from my character's standpoint, because Ness pretty much thrives on the fact that MK takes care of Marth and DDD. At the end of the day though, it's selfish of me to want him around just so Ness can win more in some senses, so if this is what the community wants and if it's that detrimental to us then I'm all for anything.

This soo much. We'd end up bringing out our other bad matchups (Falco & Lucario), and I still advocate for a ban. I want this for the better of the community, not for my character's benefits.

 

[CT Chia]

I'd be sad seeing MK go from my character's standpoint, because Ness pretty much thrives on the fact that MK takes care of Marth and DDD. At the end of the day though, it's selfish of me to want him around just so Ness can win more in some senses, so if this is what the community wants and if it's that detrimental to us then I'm all for anything.

I'm scared of an MK-less metagame with a bunch of DDDs running around tbqh.

 

[Yink]

Haha well thanks you guys.

I guess I figure, Ness may drop (in fact, I sorta expect a little drop if anything), but at the same time so many other characters either lose their worst matchup, or one of their worst. My one, little character vs. the opportunity for others to become that much more viable is a no brainer.

I have my secondary, I'll be okay. It would be nice to see some other mid tiers finally be able to show a little bit of what they can do.

 

[Boomer3d]

ICs are nowhere as close to being broken as MK.

That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that alot of people don't like infinites and want those banned as well. So if a ban of metaknight does happen, which would be the first character in the smash bros history to be banned, what else would be open up to be potentially banned, such as infinites and chain grabs. What it really comes down to is what is considered an advantage and what is considered cheap.

A good rule of thumb for banning metakinght would be comparing metaknight to akuma in super street fighter 2 turbo. http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/200...er-2-turbo-hd-remix-tiers-character-rankings/

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'd still rather lose to a falco that can atleast make a grave error by Side-B'ing offstage by accident or Lucario thinking he can wall cling only for him to bounce off the wall, rather then losing to MK making millions of mistakes and still winning the match even by making mistakes that should've cost him a stock but didn't cause of his jumps and all his specials being a recovery move.

tl;dr Ban MK, I'm Okay with People picking up other Bad Yoshi MU's to atleast use SOME skill and get Punished badly for their mistakes.