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Yes,Yez,Yesh,YIEIZ,Noooo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_8vA7mC8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c_8vA7mC8U
Dai Tian
Smash Journeyman
Holy bajeezus it's the forbidden quadruple knee! Falcon hasn't done it in so long though, he's forgotten the timing to keep himself safe...
jahkzheng
Smash Lord
I've had and played Brawl+ for a couple weeks now, and even though its probably been said, I have to say that the thing I like about Falcon in B+ is the return of his awesome horizontal movement. His increased momentum allows him to short hop out of a dash more than twice as far as he could in vBrawl and that alone makes the knee much more dangerous than before. It reminds me of the thrill of leaping off the fin of the GreatFox and knee smashing or dairing my opponent from a magnified state before managing a recovery.
On another note, I think that Falcon's up-B should have more momentum to it. Out of momentum it takes a deep inverted parabola trajectory and you land with little momentum. It would feel more natural if the move sent you sliding onto the stage - plus look more awesome!
On another note, I think that Falcon's up-B should have more momentum to it. Out of momentum it takes a deep inverted parabola trajectory and you land with little momentum. It would feel more natural if the move sent you sliding onto the stage - plus look more awesome!
Good.
Do you got a vid? =X
Because you said in my Vid you beat me,well,show me the proof,and then you will beat me xD
Its on cubaisdeath's wii, hes making a Northern California Brawl+ combo video, so it should be on that. Im sure that video will be posted on here somewhere.
cubaisdeath
Smash Lord
yeah, I'll put out a trailer soon hopefully. and yeah, it was 5 knees....I was the ddd T.T
get to work on that **** nigggggggga
*cracks whip*
wow... that sounded kinda racist
Palpi
Smash Hero
You should talk more about dair in this thread. I did dair to falcon punch. It could have been teched, but it forced a get up. Dairing them while on the ground leads into almost anything below 40-50%.
Edit; On topic of match ups. Sheik has advantage over Captain falcon because of her mere speed linking to combo potential and gimping potential. Offstage sheik out prioritizes everything you do. You must time your 2nd jumps and air dodges well. On stage it might be a bit more even though captain falcons raptor boost and falcon kick have poor priority. A mix up of approaches works well.
Dash > crouch cancel > jab > to grab or dash grab which ever is in reach
Like said in this guide: SH nair. A lot of captain falcon's approaches like a nair or a raptor boost can easily be shielded / dodged and punished so using mind games to your advantage helps.
A dair is a more unexpected approach considering its lack of range. The MELEEEEE combo dair to raptor boost works wonders because out of that depending on your opponents initial DI you can uair or knee them.
I havn't tried crouch cancel dtilt, but jab > dtilt is a bit out of range most of the time, but dtilt can set up aerial combos.
You really need to see sheik's attacks coming and tech because whenever I miss a tech it is that much closer to being gimped.
Edit; On topic of match ups. Sheik has advantage over Captain falcon because of her mere speed linking to combo potential and gimping potential. Offstage sheik out prioritizes everything you do. You must time your 2nd jumps and air dodges well. On stage it might be a bit more even though captain falcons raptor boost and falcon kick have poor priority. A mix up of approaches works well.
Dash > crouch cancel > jab > to grab or dash grab which ever is in reach
Like said in this guide: SH nair. A lot of captain falcon's approaches like a nair or a raptor boost can easily be shielded / dodged and punished so using mind games to your advantage helps.
A dair is a more unexpected approach considering its lack of range. The MELEEEEE combo dair to raptor boost works wonders because out of that depending on your opponents initial DI you can uair or knee them.
I havn't tried crouch cancel dtilt, but jab > dtilt is a bit out of range most of the time, but dtilt can set up aerial combos.
You really need to see sheik's attacks coming and tech because whenever I miss a tech it is that much closer to being gimped.
D
Deleted member
Guest
ok since not that much will change anymore about CF (except maybe the amount of hitlag he recieves) how do the CF fans think about talking matchups?
PancakePanda
Smash Cadet
I would love to begin a CF / Snake matchup talk. With the variations in the characters' styles and CF being really good at this point, I find him a lot closer to the living legend. Personally, I'd hand out a 60/40 Snake, but my matches always end up evening out (unless I'm playing against a certain GoG). What about you guys?
As heavy as Snake is, it's pretty simple for CF to build up some massive damage on him. Snake's usual strengths play well for him, such as his utilt punishing anything that misses, and the power slide. I find CF's reovery to be a little more predictable, making edge guarding easy for Snake, but you can always catch him with the Up B.
Just a few things to start with...
As heavy as Snake is, it's pretty simple for CF to build up some massive damage on him. Snake's usual strengths play well for him, such as his utilt punishing anything that misses, and the power slide. I find CF's reovery to be a little more predictable, making edge guarding easy for Snake, but you can always catch him with the Up B.
Just a few things to start with...
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
Both characters excel at punishing each others' recovery:
Snake can punish Falcon's largely predictable low recovery with mortars, nades, nakita, dair, which can all get around Falcon's sweetspotting. If he fails at sweetspotting, Snake might catch him with a C4 or possibly even an F-smash.
Falcon can punish Snake's recovery rather well now with his super-momentum-jumps, and intercept with a stomp, knee, or Uair (Maaybe a YES! if you're Brave/Flashy/Stupid) depending on whether he's recovering low, medium, or high.
Falcon's also pretty heavy now, and gains a bit of resistance to Snake's U-tilt (at the cost of being susceptible to stupid u-tilt combos at low percents).
Overall it really depends on how good the Snake is at spamming and keeping away vs. how good the Falcon is at weaving around said projectiles and comboing when he gets in. It's a pretty close matchup that can go either way, with perhaps a slight advantage to Snake.
I'd say maybe 55/45 Snake or 50/50 even.
Snake can punish Falcon's largely predictable low recovery with mortars, nades, nakita, dair, which can all get around Falcon's sweetspotting. If he fails at sweetspotting, Snake might catch him with a C4 or possibly even an F-smash.
Falcon can punish Snake's recovery rather well now with his super-momentum-jumps, and intercept with a stomp, knee, or Uair (Maaybe a YES! if you're Brave/Flashy/Stupid) depending on whether he's recovering low, medium, or high.
Falcon's also pretty heavy now, and gains a bit of resistance to Snake's U-tilt (at the cost of being susceptible to stupid u-tilt combos at low percents).
Overall it really depends on how good the Snake is at spamming and keeping away vs. how good the Falcon is at weaving around said projectiles and comboing when he gets in. It's a pretty close matchup that can go either way, with perhaps a slight advantage to Snake.
I'd say maybe 55/45 Snake or 50/50 even.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I think snake is a mediocre character on the stage, unless you are offstage then he is great. Placing a c4 and nades, cooking weak throw nades, nikita(lol) and his upsmash. Once you are offstage it will be exceedingly hard to back on stage. Like in vbrawl MK vs Snake, fairly even until the MK gets the snake off stage. As SheLL said, Falcon can destroy snakes recovery.
PancakePanda
Smash Cadet
But onstage, I see Snake taking victory. His tilts have more range, and are far more punishing. Plus, his short hop dair and full hop nair take priority. I see it hard for Falcon to scrape an opening in many different situations. Falcon's throws have better setups, IMO, and getting to that point is probably just going to be a matter of speed.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
I agree with Pancake Panda here and I think you guys are underestimating Snake's onstage game. Falcon has the tools to punish Snake's mistakes now with his momentum, Falcon's combos, and how easy it is to combo Snake. But Snake's tilts have such good range and priority it seems tough for Falcon to be able to break the tilt walls. U-tilt -> Full hop N-air works on Falcon for a pretty large window and the n-air does such stupid high damage and knockback.
Also, you can't forget Snake's stage control with Nades, Mortar Slides, and the mines. We already talked about recoveries, but I think Snake can punish Falcon's recovery easier. Snake can always DI up and recover way out of range of Falcon and then fast fall an air dodge to return safely.
Overall, it's definitely a better matchup then vBrawl. It actually is 'The Manly Men's Bout' we all wanted when Brawl released. But I still think Snake takes the matchup here. If I have to give numbers I think it's 60/40 or 65/35 Snake. Falcon's priority is just too terrible and Snakes is just too good. I'm confident a really good Snake could tilt and nade camp a Falcon almost all day.
Also, you can't forget Snake's stage control with Nades, Mortar Slides, and the mines. We already talked about recoveries, but I think Snake can punish Falcon's recovery easier. Snake can always DI up and recover way out of range of Falcon and then fast fall an air dodge to return safely.
Overall, it's definitely a better matchup then vBrawl. It actually is 'The Manly Men's Bout' we all wanted when Brawl released. But I still think Snake takes the matchup here. If I have to give numbers I think it's 60/40 or 65/35 Snake. Falcon's priority is just too terrible and Snakes is just too good. I'm confident a really good Snake could tilt and nade camp a Falcon almost all day.
Fly Falcon Fly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlRR6oVP3ZQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlRR6oVP3ZQ
Palpi
Smash Hero
Wait... You didn't tech that wtf?
D
Deleted member
Guest
becasue it doesn't halp CF at all so it was taken out. if you are high enough to use it, you can as well DI and sweetspot the ledge from below
KarateF22
Smash Journeyman
You guys, head to Lucario thread. We are discussing Lucario vs. Captain Falcon matchup. Starts on page 8
I´m not very sure about that...
D
Deleted member
Guest
currently more like top 10, but here it goes:Wait, you consider him in the top 8 paprika? What's the rest of your top 8 look like? ( And yes, i'm in dyer need of a pointless early top tier list.)
kirby, MK, fox, marth, falco, lucario, diddy, squirtle, ZSS and CF.
Kaizo
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 28, 2008
- Messages
- 140
I apologize for being too lazy to read everything but the first post >_>
I'm pretty sure Marth can be CG'd with dthrow if he doesn't DI at early percentages. It's easy to tell whether he DI'd it properly or not. Someone should investigate this, for I don't know exactly how long he can be CG'd or how exactly you can DI out of it.
I'm pretty sure Marth can be CG'd with dthrow if he doesn't DI at early percentages. It's easy to tell whether he DI'd it properly or not. Someone should investigate this, for I don't know exactly how long he can be CG'd or how exactly you can DI out of it.
Mr.-0
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2008
- Messages
- 986
In that order? ... i kinda disagree...
1. Marth
2.Fox
3. Roy ( When and if he's tournet viable ( which I kindadisagree with ) )
4. Falco
5. MK
6.Diddy
7.ZSS
8.CF
I don't give MK much credit in B+.
D
Deleted member
Guest
It wasn't a particular order and roy will NOT be used in tournaments or even matchup discussion
and not placing squirtle OR kirby in top 8? those are so ****.
metaXzero
Smash Champion
^Hmm? What's stopping Roy from being used with the Brawl+ codeset whenever the many kinks are worked out (like how he currently replaces Marth)?
D
Deleted member
Guest
because it is very hard to defend a custom character as tournament legal.
also those "kinks" are very hard to get right
also those "kinks" are very hard to get right
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Don't really see the argument against if the character isn't useless or overpowered. Unless their is some mass opposition to the idea of it.
Palpi
Smash Hero
I don't think captain falcon is 8. I think he should be lower. Wolf has to be somewhere around top 10 or 12.
cookieM0Nster
Smash Champion
NIPPLE SPIKE!
it would be beautiful for Brawl+. Just beautiful.
it would be beautiful for Brawl+. Just beautiful.
D
Deleted member
Guest
@palpi, yes roughly 10-12, whcih isn't bad for a cast of almost 40, but yeah not top 8.
@cookie, no. we are not gonna put stuff in because you want melee. then you play kupo's set.
@cookie, no. we are not gonna put stuff in because you want melee. then you play kupo's set.
jalued
Smash Lord
i dont think falcon is top 10 just because of the fact that alot of his combos are very reliant on bad DI, he has serious problems against campers, and he is seceptable to alot of chiangrabs at low % and hence quite a few very bad matchups (sheik,wario off the top of my head)
BEES
Smash Lord
Good DI can be predicted. It doesn't break his combos; just makes them more mindgame-dependent. Every character that has a chaingrab on Falcon can be taken from mid-percents to death with a single grab. I wouldn't say any of them are his hardest matchups. The hardest matchups are floaty, combo-resistant characters with high priority. Peach seems particularly troublesome.
I'm not going to debate this too much. I know it's taboo to make positive claims about anything on this forum, but I think Falcon really has a lot going for him. He's a very mobile character with a decent recovery, and some of the strongest finishers that can be comboed into.
Having strong finishers that you can combo into is very weighty. Even if it is particularly difficult to set them up against some characters, even if some characters have death combos on you, you'll find that since it takes less work to play Falcon because he kills quickly, it is easier to be on your A-game with him than with other high-tiers that require more effort, and are therefore more prone to error.
I'm not going to debate this too much. I know it's taboo to make positive claims about anything on this forum, but I think Falcon really has a lot going for him. He's a very mobile character with a decent recovery, and some of the strongest finishers that can be comboed into.
Having strong finishers that you can combo into is very weighty. Even if it is particularly difficult to set them up against some characters, even if some characters have death combos on you, you'll find that since it takes less work to play Falcon because he kills quickly, it is easier to be on your A-game with him than with other high-tiers that require more effort, and are therefore more prone to error.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Marth is fairly hard for him and maybe sheik.
Mattnumbers
Smash Master
The Lucas+ thread has begun matchup discussion against Captain Falcon, so come over and voice your opinion.