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X or Y? - PT Social

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
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Skipping Charizard? Interesting, Magik.

I've always found Squirtle to be the best out of the three if you can avoid getting grab released. I wanted to say it but was worried the BRers would flame me. :p

Also I'm working on my bio. It's gonna be tiiiight. Who else is working on theirs?
 

Bestiarius

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
694
Location
Right behind you.
I can start working on mine, I just don't know what to say.

Since this is a social thread, how about this question: if you could be any (Nintendo) character, who would you be? I really hope Waluigi is in the next game, because I'd totally main him. He's a total BAMF. I was disappointed that Wario was in this one and not Waluigi.
 

Bestiarius

Smash Ace
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Sep 23, 2008
Messages
694
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Right behind you.
OK, my bad, old info. And by the way, Toby, even though my name, Bestiarius is (correctly) spelled without an "a" (it was a gladiator who fought "beasts"), it's pronounced as if an "a" was there, so if you want to shorten it, call me "Beast," otherwise it sounds like I'm being called the best or something, which I'm not at all.

And why don't you have any vids in the vid thread? Especially between you and Shaya. You may have some, but I didn't see your name listed. Get some vids on!
 

feardragon64

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
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2,154
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San Francisco
Best - its not an infinite. Its a chain grab that also gives marth free tipper smashes when he's tired of regrabbing. It's very bad, but not an infinite.
Doesn't it end a dair spike at the end + and edgehog that usually means death, assuming squirtle doesn't get lucky and land on a platform?
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
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It's pretty much 'death' from a grab from 20% onwards.

I don't ever cg Squirtle straight away at low percents, I go for the fthrow combos first, then from that point any grab generally means death.

Of course this applies on just about every stage except for Battlefield, Brinstar and some 'lucky points' of Yoshi's Island.
 

Toby.

Smash Master
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Apr 22, 2008
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South of the border, west of the sun.
It's possible to smash DI to tech the ledge, but only if they release us a fair distance from the ledge itself. In other words, often its *extremely* difficult, if not impossible to DI far enough to actually survive. Unless you can easily smash DI the entire distance of squirtle's air release :p

And yeah if it looks like you're going to be able to survive, they will just tipper fsmash, upsmash or dsmash instead.
 

Kith

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
858
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Miami, FL
I know Pokemon Stadium and Battlefield can help to prevent it, but it really depends on where the chain grab starts lol
 

Vermy

Smash Champion
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Jun 30, 2007
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Hellburn.
you shouldn't be relying on a stage to get you a win.

Unless you win first round, you won't get a CP worth anything. And to do that requires luck on the first neutral. And a smart Marth will strike battlefield.

Stage dependency is the wrong way to go about doing well in this matchup.
 

Vermy

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Hellburn.
that leaves Yoshi's Island and Smashville.

Smashville would be good for baton pass.
Yoshi's Island is a long shot for messing up the cg.

Here's the way it'll work.
Match 1: Smashville or Yoshi's Island.

Outcome A:
Match 2: Since they won, you get a CP stage, lets say best case scenario you win.
Match 3: Their CP, an uphill battle for you in an already horrible matchup.

Outcome B:
Match 2: They CP a stage, worst case scenario, they win.
Match 3: Since they won, you get a CP stage, yay.

In this case, pressure's on for winning first round.
As aforementioned, stages aren't the way around this. Alternate ways need to be sought. Its a long shot, but it's all we've got.
 

T-block

B2B TST
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
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I wasn't implying that we should depend on the stage for the matchup...anyone with any tournament experience will know the importance of the first match. It's still important to know which stages do work and which ones don't though.
 

Toby.

Smash Master
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South of the border, west of the sun.
Unfortunately for us, Battlefield is pretty much marth's best neutral. Most of the time they won't ban it because even though they can't chain grab or tipper up smash, they can still tipper fsmash after each release just fine.

We're pretty screwed in that respect.

Edit: Wow Miles I didn't know you could sing!
 

Toby.

Smash Master
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Apr 22, 2008
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South of the border, west of the sun.
Miles (12:53:40 PM): i need to remind myself to bait a lot
Toby (12:53:44 PM): oh yeah
Toby (12:53:54 PM): my squirtle just baits constantly
Toby (12:53:58 PM): its pretty broken really
Toby (12:54:06 PM): such amazing mobility
Miles (12:54:55 PM): lol
Miles (12:55:17 PM): So if I put squirtle on an ultra rod **** follows?
Toby (12:56:22 PM): miles
Toby (12:56:25 PM): that was a terrible joke
Toby (12:56:31 PM): :p
Miles(12:56:58 PM): top tier joke imo
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
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Yeah, Battlefield only gives Squirtle a more even ground to go on,
but the match up disadvantage is still heavily there.

And Marth gains more **** ability over Zard and to a degree Ivy too.

Squirtle's use of platforms/weaving with his reasonable aerial disjoints is comparable to Marths on the stage, and smart Squirtles can abuse unknowing Marths.
 

CoonTail

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
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1,554
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Long Island, NY
A smart PT should strike FD obviously.... leaving lylat, yoshi's, smashville and battlefield. I dont see the zero switch on smashville being overly wonderful and the moving platform is just a matter of the marth being smart with the grab release. The only stages that stop this are lylat and battlefield so honestly if you somehow manage to get lylat thats about your only chance of truely stopping the releases.

Ugh this matchup is just beyond a bad one and everytime I look it gets worse. Figuring I mained IC's in melee I have truly grown a putrid hatred towards this feminine tiara wearing pansy ***.
 

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Smash Lord
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Sep 22, 2009
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Wafu
Snake vs. Pokemon Trainer

Hey guys I’m a long time listener first time caller on this here Pokemon Trainer board. I’ve been reading the recent comments made by Toby on the Snake match-up and I must say I disagree with him totally. I know many of you see him as some kind of Demi-God, but I must inform you that this is not the case. I’m an Australian player and have played against Toby quite a few times and I consistently beat him, even three stock him, with numerous characters. One character however which I’m unable to beat him with, despite him being one of my mains is Snake. This is due to the match being in my opinion heavily in Pokemon Trainer’s favour, and I will explain why that is shortly. Now I’m not just saying this as a Snake player, I also main Pokemon Trainer and easily beat Snakes myself. Below I have explained why I think Pokemon Trainer has the advantage on Snake and if Toby believes my argument to be incorrect then I encourage him to explain why this is so, although I don’t think he will be able to because he is a noob.
 

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Smash Lord
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Snake vs. Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle)

First I will look at why Squirtle can destroy Snake. Squirtle has amazing manoeuvrability and can easily get around Snake’s moves. Forward tilt is easy to beat in a number of ways, you can slide in using your shield and then grab Snake after he has finished the move. When snake is on low percentages you can easily chain forward throws together and end in a forward air, or if you’re feeling lucky an up-smash. Squirtle’s up-tilt can also easily combo Snake due to his weight. Once Snake is off stage you should be able to kill him or do an easy 50%. Just keep on doing forward airs to knock him out of his recovery. Pro-tip if Snake goes to use his C4 to recover, jump off stage (if necessary) and use water gun to push him away from the mine and to his death. Snake does have a few things going for him in this match-up however, namely his up-tilt. Be very careful as I’m sure you’re aware that his move can kill Squirtle at around 80% . Snake also has a grab release on Squirtle so be careful. Another thing to remember if Snake starts spamming his grenades give him a bit of water gun for a surprise. Now that’s the basics of the match-up and I think it’s clear that Squirtle has a 60-40 advantage on Snake. Next I will cover Charizard.
 

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Smash Lord
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Snake vs. Pokemon Trainer (Charizard)

I wish I could say that it is as easy with Charizard, luckily I’m able to state quite confidently that it is even easier. Now as I’m sure you all know by now Charizard has three jumps, you may wonder how this helps against Snake. The answer SPIKE. With his extra jumps Charizard is in the perfect position to follow Snake off stage and spike him out of his recovery. If Snake recovers too high this is also not a problem as you can easily return to stage before Snake and prepare to punish him in another way (a glide attack is often a good choice as it can kill Snake relatively early). Due to the nature of Charizard’s throws however, specifically forward and back throw you can easily position Snake so you can spike him. The ability to easily spike Snake also removes the problem of his ridiculous resilience to damage. Charizard has many more advantages in this match-up as well however. One of these is flame-thrower. This is the perfect spacing move which if used properly forces snake to approach you. It has the extra advantage of exploding Snake’s grenades!! I find that if Snake is getting in your face with his tilts a quick retreat to a reverse flame thrower will soon have him burning in the fires of hell. Another great tool that Charizard has at his disposal is ROCK SMASH (YEAH). If properly spaced you can quickly build up the damage on Snake with this move. Concentrate on what Snake is likely going to do and try and guess when he will pluck a grenade or lay a mine, it is as this time that you should dash for the rock smash, remember to follow it up with an upsmash is you sweet spot it. You might be thinking that the match-up is now so heavily biased towards Charizard that it should be easy, don’t worry it gets even easier. What few people realise is that Charizard’s forward smash is perfect for killing Snake. If he is recovering and looks like he will land on stage fake like you are going to jump and use a back air or other aerial, this will fool Snake into air dodging and you, instead of performing and aerial will charge a forward smash to punish his foolish air dodge. Charizard’s epic qualities continue with his awesome grab range. As Snake’s moves are often incredibly obvious it is easy to power-shield them and then follow them up with a grab. If you’re near the edge you can then try to spike snake. If not, don’t worry you can do an upthrow and then hopefully chain some up airs, failing that wait for Snake to land and the grab him again during his ending lag. Be careful however because if snake plucks a grenade in the air he has zero lag when he lands, just be cautious. With all this in Charizards favour I can’t see the match up being anything else but 65-35 Charizards way, just be wary of Snake’s respectable kill power and space those moves.
 

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Smash Lord
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Wafu
Snake vs. Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur)

Lastly Ivysaur, unfortunately the match-up is not as easy with Ivysaur and Snake may even have a slight advantage. It may be in your best interest to switch Ivysaur out when you have the chance as the other two have a more significant advantage on Snake. If however you are a Pokemon Trainer Purist, like myself, you wouldn’t go in for any of that dirty switching. If you wish to preserve your honour Ivysaur has many tricks which you can use against Snake. One of my favourites is razor leaf. This move is AMAZING against Snake, it can blow up his grenades on the ground and even better, as he is plucking them or holding them. If you keep up the razor leaf it makes it unlike that Snake will be moving around holding grenades, it also forces Snake to approach you and this is where the game gets tricky. Now Snake’s forward tilt crushes Ivysaur if you mess your spacing up, just get those back airs going and make sure you hit him with forward tilt otherwise you’ll be eating some knee. Always be in the lookout for Snake trying to roll behind you, if he does this whip out good old bullet seed and due to his weight you can do some hefty damage to Snake. During this match up you must always be careful of Snake’s mines and forward smash as due to their fire attribute they kill Ivysaur really early. I should point out that if you get Snake into the air you have a chance to do some damage as none of his aerials are very fast, up air can actually kill snake fairly early. Despite these few tricks Ivysaur has I would still have to say the match-up is 55-45 in Snake’s favour unfortunately.

If anyone thinks that they can counter my above argument then I encourage them to do so, although I think this will be an impossibility, as you already know that Pokemon Trainer destroys Snake. You merely say that Pokemon Trainer has trouble with Snake as an excuse so you don’t have to play better. I know that Toby is particularly guilty of this.

TLDR Pokemon Trainer has the advantage on Snake.

P.S. I apologize for the quadruple post I'm a bit of a noob and didn't know you weren't meant to do that, sorry.
 

Shaya

   「chase you」 
BRoomer
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It's true..

Toby PWNS my Snake with flame thrower.

Snake has nothing.

The only real injustice in these posts is Toby being called a demi-god.
He's truly Zeus-esque deity or similar (a Titan perhaps?)
A titan forced into the depths of tartarus by the cheap poisonous tricks that Marth destroys him with.
 

Browny

Smash Hater
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If only snake had some sort of tilted forward attack, he would be able to put up a good fight in this matchup :(
 
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