Wofl Q&A/Social

[SinisterB]

Yeah, I always thought it was just a Breverse that gave you more momentum based on your current aerial momentum (opposite direction), but I have no idea so might be cool to have that cleared up lol. I might be thinking of something else though.

Anyways as insanity wolf might say steal that **** back.

Spoiler

and **** him

Our top Pika here uses Wii Chuck though, seems like it would just be super awkward imo. At least it isn't plain old Wiimote I guess

 

[Dnyce]

Idk what happened to my GCC, I had one but I think it got stolen or some **** :/

Dnyce, I messed up lol, I meant turnaround special by b-reversal... I think... what's the difference between a wavebounce, b-reversal, and turnaround special again? Iirc, a wavebounce reverses momentum (hitting the opposite direction shortly after starting the special), a turnaround special is exactly what it sounds like (opposite direction shortly before), and... b-reversal is a wavebounce? Idk :x

Also, while you're here, any idea if every character has the same frame data on their grounded techs/tech rolls? :3

Spoiler

Turnaround-B [Universal] - The turnaround of neutral special is done by tapping the opposite direction with the control stick and doing neutral special within 20 frames after the tap. Other special turnarounds are done by pressing in the opposite direction and the special's direction.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.

1. make a custom stage with spikes
2. go into training mode
3. pick wolf
4. go to the custom stage you just made
5. tech roll on the spikes
6. exit back to the character select screen
7. pick samus
8. repeat steps 4-6
9. click "quote" on this post so I see it in name search
10. tell me whether or not I actually have to test this
11. don't take 30 something shots of alcohol tonight... it's a bad idea and you'll have the worst ****ing hangover the day after


edit: ideally you should already have a stage like this to practice free falling techs/techrolling

 

[MegaRobMan]

is so light that killing him is easy. Too bad one grab= 44% if you suck at SDI'ing the Uair.
Matchup is def even. has more problems then does though in the matchup because all his b moves except inhale cause RCO, his aerial mobility is trash, and we got dat projectile. His Bair isn't as safe as ours and we can punish it with Fsmash when it hits our shield.

I've discussed this before, but I should have won all 4 of the sets I've lost, but I'm just like "Oh, I'll go off stage and kill Kirby because I have a huge lead"

Then I get swallowcided.

Repeat.

Repeat.

Repeat.

Edit: lmao @ don't take 30 shots. Be a man and take 40.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Lol

Oh yeah
i forgot.

 

[SinisterB]

Why would you even go offstage against Kirby

i mean other than situational gimps or w0fl guards or something

just spam blaster


- Practice teching Klaps on Japes like a man

 

[Seagull Joe]

@ JJ: I mean, it still comes from a reference to that story. T'was an excellent piece of writing though, like... really.

@ Sync: Thanks dude yeah haha, I took your camping advice to heart, made everything better xD he's not a Snake main though, it'll be a lot harder to camp False since I know he's going to strip grenades right in my face all the time, guess I have to start SH blastering ;__; and yeah, I usually do stupid things when I'm behind and really want to win, bad habit :/

Godlike movie.

All I know is...

That wavebounce laser looks hella good for approaching Olimar, and also a good fakeout for chars who can CG us.

How does he do that?

EDIT: Unless there purples...**** purples

To do that, press away from the direction you're facing (which is the direction he was moving in most of the time), B, then back towards the direction you were initially facing; b-reversal followed by a wavebounce so that you're shooting in the direction you're facing with reversed momentum. It was crazy, actually approaching with hilted blaster @_@

+1 for purple pikmin sucking

He's doing both a wavebounce and a b-reversal. It's pretty awesome :3

I guess maybe because everyone techs dthrows in Japan (the one time he used it on the Pit it was teched), but even then it's not that hard to punish if you're keeping an eye out for it... idk. Those blasters were awesome though, got a lot of hits in with the hilt :o

And this is the new inspiration in tech skill I have wanted. Thank you Arda .

 

[tekkie]

what's a techroll?

sounds tasty

 

[Ishiey]

Idk if anyone actually stole my controller though lol, so, yeah.

Spoiler

Turnaround-B [Universal] - The turnaround of neutral special is done by tapping the opposite direction with the control stick and doing neutral special within 20 frames after the tap. Other special turnarounds are done by pressing in the opposite direction and the special's direction.
B-Reverse (Reversal-B) [Universal] - The turnaround in the air that reverses your momentum. It is performed by pressing in the opposite direction you are facing AFTER you perform the special.
Wavebounce (Recoil-Special) [Universal] - The reversal of momentum that occurs when you combine a Turnaround-B and B-Reverse. You will face the same direction that you did before.

1. make a custom stage with spikes
2. go into training mode
3. pick wolf
4. go to the custom stage you just made
5. tech roll on the spikes
6. exit back to the character select screen
7. pick samus
8. repeat steps 4-6
9. click "quote" on this post so I see it in name search
10. tell me whether or not I actually have to test this
11. don't take 30 something shots of alcohol tonight... it's a bad idea and you'll have the worst ****ing hangover the day after


edit: ideally you should already have a stage like this to practice free falling techs/techrolling

Oh, derp. Forgot about the Smash Lab thread, that actually has all of this information. Well, guess that settles that then.

Also, I don't know where 11 came from, but doesn't that kinda, well, y'know... kill a person? >__>

Why would you even go offstage against Kirby

i mean other than situational gimps or w0fl guards or something

just spam blaster


- Practice teching Klaps on Japes like a man

Going offstage is fun, don't hate. And thanks for reminding me lol, I need to get on your level xD

And this is the new inspiration in tech skill I have wanted. Thank you Arda .

Not a problem except I didn't actually do anything haha, but yeah, this actually looks really useful.

NOTE: In case anyone missed it, I was wrong, it's called a wavebounce (same inputs though). I don't know my terms as well as I thought I did lol, check the Smash Lab thread or Dnyce's post for an explanation.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Not a problem except I didn't actually do anything haha, but yeah, this actually looks really useful.

NOTE: In case anyone missed it, I was wrong, it's called a wavebounce (same inputs though). I don't know my terms as well as I thought I did lol, check the Smash Lab thread or Dnyce's post for an explanation.

I can wavebounce consistently forward, but how do I do it backwards ?

 

[Dnyce]

Also, I don't know where 11 came from, but doesn't that kinda, well, y'know... kill a person? >__>

Welp... too late now. Sure feels like it <__<

I can wavebounce consistently forward, but how do I do it backwards ?

I don't get it.

 

[SinisterB]

Wow, Joe didn't know about it either?

Our character must be super underdeveloped if our top Wolves don't know about something as simple as Aerial B-reverse (Reversal-B). Or whatever we're calling it, lol.

For the sake of making things easier, some knowledge;
It's a fairly decent edgeguard mechanic, jumping off the stage and firing blaster at your recovering opponent while carrying your momentum under the stage. Position is everything with this, considering you can hop up and go into w0fl guarding, but one of my favorite uses is to hop off putting out that projectile in my recovering opponents face and using Flash to sweetspot the edge backwards. If you can hit them with the blast, or even the hilt, they will have a very hard time recovering after you steal the ledge. (Varies for every character, obviously.) If you don't want to commit to that, or just want your space, (maybe the clocks running out?) you can use it in conjuction with Flash to grab the opposite ledge on Smashville, if it's done perfectly. I have yet to discover if it's possible on another stage, though i'm absolutely sure it is somewhere. Halberd probably works in it's Aerial stage, I can almost safely say it does 100% but I need to test it.

Other reasons to use it are like we saw from Masha, throw the opponent offguard, keep your space, and hit with the hilt whenever possible. This is also the method we use to travel under Lylat, or at least, I haven't found a more efficient method. Overall this just adds to our crazy cross up game and has like, a billion uses. Hit the lab and perfect it, and be amazed at all the new things you can do.

@Ish I love going offstage, if you weren't aware. I just like to steal Kirby's jumps first with Blaster

@Tekkie A tech roll is a just a tech, but you hit the Cstick in a certain direction to roll instead of getting up in place. Very useful, i'm surprised you don't know about it already lol. There's also Wall techs as i'm sure you know.

@Joe You need to carry your momentum one way, and Wavebounce (I guess that's what it's called?) the opposite way. If you screw up you'll probably be getting Flash.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Welp... too late now. Sure feels like it <__<

I don't get it.

I can wavebounce forward, but can't move backwards. I can move forwards when jumping backwards.

It's just making me b-reversal.

 

[Ishiey]

@ Dnyce, @___________@ I suggest drinking lots of water and possibly calling an ambulance lol. But I mean, you're awake and your typing seems to be fine, so, no worries

@ Gull, I'm confused... so when you SH backwards you can wavebounce, but not when you SH forwards? :x

@ Sinister, I am aware of your love of going offstage too lol, and pretty sure Tekkie was just being Tekkie xD

Also, Aerodrome, I apologize for harassing you all the time lol but I have a few requests... 1) can you get frame data on DACUS and 2) can you tell me whether the frame advantage for dthrow on a neutral tech is any different from 80% to 140%? Here is some previous data, so you'd only need to test 80% for one character, I just want to make sure the logic in my head is correct (that frame advantage decreases at higher %s since they're sent towards the ground faster)

 

[Seagull Joe]

@ Dnyce, @___________@ I suggest drinking lots of water and possibly calling an ambulance lol. But I mean, you're awake and your typing seems to be fine, so, no worries

@ Gull, I'm confused... so when you SH backwards you can wavebounce, but not when you SH forwards? :x

@ Sinister, I am aware of your love of going offstage too lol, and pretty sure Tekkie was just being Tekkie xD

Also, Aerodrome, I apologize for harassing you all the time lol but I have a few requests... 1) can you get frame data on DACUS and 2) can you tell me whether the frame advantage for dthrow on a neutral tech is any different from 80% to 140%? Here is some previous data, so you'd only need to test 80% for one character, I just want to make sure the logic in my head is correct (that frame advantage decreases at higher %s since they're sent towards the ground faster)

Yes. Exactly. It just makes me b-reversal when I try forward and hit back.

 

[SinisterB]

I realized that as i just re-read my post LOL

but hey i had to be sure

 

[Dnyce]

I can wavebounce forward, but can't move backwards. I can move forwards when jumping backwards.

Jump forward > let go of control stick while inputting special > hit backward as fast as you can after hitting special.

 

[Zync]

To al wolves trying to do that japan tech, all I can think is this:

 

[Deleted member]

Dnyce, don't go killing yourself. :<

 

[Ishiey]

lol @ Sync

Guys... wavebouncing is hard I mean, I knew my techskill was bad, but really. This is going to actually take practice

 

[Rizen]

Fino's a tough one, typing ATs, he'll be fine. ...eventually.

 

[SinisterB]

Yeah, turns out I was thinking about a different kind of Breverse, not what Masha was doing lmfaoo. Yay for making myself look like an idiot again

Got it the first couple tries, definitely gonna take some practice though, it's super awkward. I think I might've done it couple times before and wasn't sure how to re-create, it feels reeeeaaally familiar.

Still working on other ATs though, this one will be on the backburner for awhile.

@Sync - Classy

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Also, Aerodrome, I apologize for harassing you all the time lol but I have a few requests... 1) can you get frame data on DACUS and 2) can you tell me whether the frame advantage for dthrow on a neutral tech is any different from 80% to 140%? Here is some previous data, so you'd only need to test 80% for one character, I just want to make sure the logic in my head is correct (that frame advantage decreases at higher %s since they're sent towards the ground faster)

Sorry, I've been kinda tired lately and checking my User CP to find like, 50 threads with unread posts lol. It's hard.

DACUS is 3-4.

Also testing the dthrow is something I'd like to look more into, and atm it seems that Wofl's dthrow gives the same advantage on tech from 80% to 140% (Tested it on Zelda, who is always my testing dummy <3).

The commands for this laser thing seem to be (When facing right):

:stick4: > :bbutton: > :stick6:

 

[Zync]

Havnt tried it yet but the commands look really easy if you ask me

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You've got about a 8(?) frame window (I haven't counted, I know B reverse has a 4 frame window, wavebounce probably has 4 too?) to input back > return stick to neutral > B button > b-reverse it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yo, I may not be able to wavebounce backwards, but I think wavebounce forwards could be a useful tool for getting back on stage.

 

[Ishiey]

Sorry, I've been kinda tired lately and checking my User CP to find like, 50 threads with unread posts lol. It's hard.

DACUS is 3-4.

Also testing the dthrow is something I'd like to look more into, and atm it seems that Wofl's dthrow gives the same advantage on tech from 80% to 140% (Tested it on Zelda, who is always my testing dummy <3).

The commands for this laser thing seem to be (When facing right):

:stick4: > :bbutton: > :stick6:

It's all good <3 thank you very much for the info :3

So then... math time. At 140%, we have at least a 4-frame advantage on every character from a neutral tech (guaranteed jab if they're in range, which I'm not going to worry about yet). Standing techs have frame 27 as the first actionable frame (FAF), and all tech rolls have frame 41 as the FAF, which means that the frame advantage on tech rolls will be at least 4+(41-27)=18 frames. This means fsmash should punish everyone that's in-range from a roll, but if they roll away, you can still hit them with a guaranteed DACUS (frame 13 regularly, 15/16 with a DACUS). Hooray for covering options :3

Yo, I may not be able to wavebounce backwards, but I think wavebounce forwards could be a useful tool for getting back on stage.

I remember bringing this up like, three years ago or something lol, but can anyone test if wavebouncing is a good momentum cancel? JJ said it didn't work, and it's not that I don't trust him, but... the more people backing it up, the better

 

[Seagull Joe]

It's all good <3 thank you very much for the info :3

So then... math time. At 140%, we have at least a 4-frame advantage on every character from a neutral tech (guaranteed jab if they're in range, which I'm not going to worry about yet). Standing techs have frame 27 as the first actionable frame (FAF), and all tech rolls have frame 41 as the FAF, which means that the frame advantage on tech rolls will be at least 4+(41-27)=18 frames. This means fsmash should punish everyone that's in-range from a roll, but if they roll away, you can still hit them with a guaranteed DACUS (frame 13 regularly, 15/16 with a DACUS). Hooray for covering options :3

I remember bringing this up like, three years ago or something lol, but can anyone test if wavebouncing is a good momentum cancel? JJ said it didn't work, and it's not that I don't trust him, but... the more people backing it up, the better

I mean wavebouncing as a getup option. Not as a momentum cancel. As a momentum cancel it's awful. Just b-reverse for movement.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Game over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lmw4lzjEqD8

 

[Wolf McBlue]

Game over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Lmw4lzjEqD8

SO CUTE

 

[RaphaelRobo]

trust me, you don't know where my name comes from.


but yes, it is the greatest name ever

So it's not this?

I was so sure it was.

 

[castorpollux]

So it's not this?

I was so sure it was.

no, but that's the first time i saw that lol

 

[MegaRobMan]

Why would you even go offstage against Kirby

just spam blaster

BECAUSE I LIKE TO LIVE LIFE DANGEROUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And if I just sit and spam blaster, I might lose the lead and that's not what I want to have happen.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

[glow]Watched Vengeance vids ... Kain is as impressive as he's never been before imo. He finally uses turnaround specials offstage and reverse blaster to counter juggles. Against Reflex I felt like he missed too many punishes vs powershielded nair and uspaced bair but he definitely was on point other than that. Versus @lly isn't up yet but I heard it's kind of bad. **** Snake.[/glow]

 

[Ishiey]

Link to vids? :o

 

[~ Gheb ~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8ogRwdL_zU&feature=g-u-u&context=G237f2a4FUAAAAAAAZAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-4ZRriW-p0&feature=g-u-u&context=G25df17fFUAAAAAAAYAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08ORRT8BPig&feature=g-u-u&context=G257fbecFUAAAAAAAQAA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yFQbrs-rpU&feature=g-u-u&context=G23d3d6fFUAAAAAAAOAA

Edit: Terrible commentary vs L0gic BY AN OLIMAR PLAYER EVEN.

 

[KRDsonic]

^In the Kain vs. Reflex set, 17:41 - 17:45 ... I lost it. That was too good. SO FAST.

 

[Dnyce]

Oh, you guys misunderstand.... the whole alcohol thing was just your friendly neighborhood spider-man-like advice (as well as a lesson learned from the night before).

 

[Seagull Joe]

An player I beat consistently at Pound 4 lol.

I think wavebouncing is about to make my gameplay ever more technical...

I think my boy Fino could be the best in NA soon. He's already top 3 behind Rich and Dabuz.

 

[MegaRobMan]

I love when I say stuff like that, I get told I'm wrong (by fino).

But I get it, people want to fly under the radar.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I love when I say stuff like that, I get told I'm wrong (by fino).

But I get it, people want to fly under the radar.

You make gross exaggerations and your own definitive statements. Often you present information in dumb ways or stretch the lengths of actual facts, which makes things you say less believable.