With a new console, comes a new Smash game...

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Link to original post: [drupal=4219]With a new console, comes a new Smash game...[/drupal]



I don't know how many of you have been paying attention to the e3 news floating around, but there's supposed to be a new Nintendo console on the way.

And as rumor has it, it's being geared towards hardcore gamers.

Granted, the only people spreading these rumors about are clearly the hardcore market (because, go ahead, ask grandma if she knows what e3 is) but it's nice to picture a world without flailing wiimotes.

Many of the articles floating around look like this: http://www.product-reviews.net/2011...core-console-more-powerful-than-xbox-360-ps3/

Some also include that there have been reports of Nintendo already showing it off to third-parties for support, and it's "not a gimmick" like the Wii was.

Nintendo would obviously need to get a heads up on PS3 and 360. They've always done it, been one step behind in the market. The Gamecube didn't have internet, the Wii didn't have up-to-date graphics... and now, when Sony and Microsoft are at a stand-still for what they could innovate next (after they stole the Wii's thing,) would be a perfect time to come out with a new console.

Now, for the bloggy part of this post.

I've been discussing with friends for a couple days now, before when it was just a rumor, and we've come up with a few pretty decent ideas of what might happen.

Controller:
Now, I honestly think this could go either one of two ways.

A. They'll make it the wiimote 2. We'll hate it.

B. They'll take the Kinect approach, and screw controllers altogether for the more "wii play-esque" kind of games, and give us a wireless controller for more hardcore games. I imagine a slightly modified gamecube controller, but wireless.

Graphics:
Really, I'm not sure here. Its so hard to imagine a Nintendo console with the best graphics on the market. Obviously they aren't going to make your Mii totally realistic; there will obviously be games still geared towards the casual market it (in fact, I'd totally predict over half of the games to be) but the hardcore gamers will finally get to see the sweat drip of Mario's nose, if they willed it so.

Internet:
I never messed with it much, but from my experiences, the Wii's online play kind of sucked. With upped graphics, and an increase of hardcore gamers wishing to play online, how is Nintendo going to handle it? I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having to pay for the next consoles internet, but I'd imagine not in the monthly way we pay for XBL. I'd imagine a more once-a-year approach.

This leaves us with the final, most important question: What will the next Smash game be?

Make no doubt about it. There will be another Smash game. Sakurai or not (though last I knew, he wanted to make another one?) It's simply too big a seller not to. But I don't think it'll be a title release, because:

A. Unless its been in production for a long time already, they'll be working on it for a decent amount of time. How do you update graphics to a semi-realistic level on the world's most recognized video game icon? Who can be introduced into the game? How much space will the new discs have?

B. 75% of internet use will probably come from this game. (or Mario party online, I would totally play that) Which would mean they would need to get servers stable before they could put out a game like this.

C. When has Smash ever been a release title?


Maybe it's just an ex-smash player's hopeful wishing that he can come back to this game. But I can't wait to see how this turns out.

Maybe they'll call this the Revolution.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

If they are going for hardcore gamers, it would be nice if they actually made Smash a competitive game

 

[-_skinny_-]

If they are going for hardcore gamers, it would be nice if they actually made Smash a competitive game

just asking, how is it not a competitive game already?

 

[Life]

Boring =/= uncompetitive

And not everyone finds Brawl boring, TYVM.

Now let's stop derailing this thread.

They did mention the system will most likely be backwards-compatible with Wii, so clearly it will be able to use the Wiimote. And since some Wii games use 'cube controllers, they'd need to make that work... in other words, does the new system NEED a new controller, strictly speaking? Of course it'll probably have one, but is it necessary? Gamecube is pretty much the best "traditional" controller ever, and Wiimote covers the motion parts. They could pull a Kinect/Eyetoy-type thing out, but eh.

As for Smash 4? We have a thread for that, so I won't get too much into it here, but Melee was launch window and, from what I recall, was the only real "killer app" at GCN's launch.

 

[Teran]

Graphics:
Really, I'm not sure here. Its so hard to imagine a Nintendo console with the best graphics on the market. Obviously they aren't going to make your Mii totally realistic; there will obviously be games still geared towards the casual market it (in fact, I'd totally predict over half of the games to be) but the hardcore gamers will finally get to see the sweat drip of Mario's nose, if they willed it so.

What are you talking about?

Until this gen Nintendo has always excelled when it came to visuals. They just thought this gen that visuals weren't the most important factor in sellng consoles, and they were actually right.

Also, to get more powerful graphics than PS3 and 360 is a walk in the park. Even for their time they were behind the latest tech somewhat (which was new for consoles), so I'm pretty sure it's a given the new console will exceed PS3/360, the only question is by how much?

 

[Flutter NiTE]

just asking, how is it not a competitive game already?

It's a competitive game because the Smash Community MADE it a competitive game. But it was MADE as a party game.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ I actually disagree here. Nintendo has always been one step ahead, not behind. They've always known how far to go graphically/whatever to keep cost at a minimum so it wasn't overly, priced. Their hardware also had less problems than their competitors. (How many launch Wii's failed vs ps3)

While motion is a gimmick, it definitely helped them own in sales. Though I love my ps3, I'm a Nintendo fanboy so yes I'm very, very biased. None the less, I really think Nintendo has done a great job at knowing how far to go.

The only two complaints this gen were motion gimmick and internet for me. But the later titles such as MHTri had better internet, so meh.

I do like how you mention it appealing more to the hardcore, though. This gen had more casual games than Ninty has ever made. They are not a casual company, and they certainly don't need to turn into one.

And as for exceeding the 360/ps3, Idk. I can see it rivaling/barely passing the 360, and... maybe not so much the ps3 (in terms of power) It took till now for the ps3 to reach it's potential, and it has so much left to explore. It was also vastly ahead of the other two consoles in many ways, which is why it had so many launch issues (well not why but it didn't help..)

I honestly think Nintendo/Microsoft will have new consoles out, but Sony may wait a while. There's no real point.

 

[theeboredone]

They have already discussed about what the controller will look like. Reports saying it will have trigger buttons, dual analog sticks, and a 6 inch HD interface screen as well. Not sure how it will look like, or how it would work. I imagine it being something along the lines of a PSP or DS look alike.

The problem with Nintendo is, they always try to gamble with something, or forget something relatively important. For example, the N64 was arguably the superior system graphics wise compared to the PS1, but the cartridges lacked in space, and the controller wasn't exactly a fan favorite.

The gamecube was graphically superior to the PS2, but lacked in online play and third party support. Plus the console's look itself was lolworthy (purple lunchbox anyone?).

The Wii was a successful gamble by implementing motion controls that got the casual audience to crawl over. It was so good, Sony and Microsoft decided to make their own versions of it. At the same time, hardcore gamers started to stray away from it due to the graphical difference, lack of a good application menu, lack of online support, and third party support. Make no mistake about it, the Wii has won, or is currently leading this generation of consoles in terms of sales, but the only true profit they get from outside their console sales is their first party games. If there is no Mario, Zelda, or Metroid...then the Wii is kinda just sitting there and collecting dust in most people's houses.

So with that being said, if the PS3 is 2006 technology, and the expected lifespan for that and the 360 are 10 years, Nintendo is going to bring out a powerhouse. Assuming this "Wii 2" comes out somewhere in late 2012, the PS3 and 360 will have completed 7 years of their "life cycle". If they introduce a system in the future, and release it in say, 2013, while not 10 years, 8 years would still be successful in my opinion. Nintendo will have the jump on their rivals due to having the powerful machine, but it will once again come down to third party support, online support, and various other things. Nintendo can go with say..."2008" or a bit newer technology, and get away with putting up a decent price...however, they would also be setting themselves up for an epic battle once Sony and Microsoft come out with their next gens.

It's hard to imagine Nintendo charging a lot for their console, btu things could work in their favor if they do overcharge it, and by the time PS4 and 720 roll around, Nintendo would have reduced their price, the parts to make it will be cheaper, and the audience may go for that instead of the other two consoles.

 

[Fuelbi]

The one thing that has had me worried about Project Cafe is that if it doesn't become graphically powerful enough (or just powerful enough in general), by the time Microsoft and Sony release their new next gen consoles, it'll overtake Cafe by a lot (especially Sony I predict) in terms of power and that'll take people away from the new Nintendo console

Sure that didn't stop the Wii since it is leading in sales (even if their going through price drops), but I really don't want what's happening now to the Wii to happen to Cafe

 

[Alus]

If they are going for hardcore gamers, it would be nice if they actually made Smash a competitive game

This game has a competitive scene, therefore for the most part, it can be competitive, just not a visual treat when you do play like so. Anyways, adding great depth to the game, i agree, is needed.

just asking, how is it not a competitive game already?

People believe if a certain game doesn't have much depth it isn't fit for serious competition. Its why people play chess and not Rock Paper Scissors.

Boring =/= uncompetitive

And not everyone finds Brawl boring, TYVM.

Now let's stop derailing this thread.

They did mention the system will most likely be backwards-compatible with Wii, so clearly it will be able to use the Wiimote. And since some Wii games use 'cube controllers, they'd need to make that work... in other words, does the new system NEED a new controller, strictly speaking? Of course it'll probably have one, but is it necessary? Gamecube is pretty much the best "traditional" controller ever, and Wiimote covers the motion parts. They could pull a Kinect/Eyetoy-type thing out, but eh.

As for Smash 4? We have a thread for that, so I won't get too much into it here, but Melee was launch window and, from what I recall, was the only real "killer app" at GCN's launch.

I'm confused... Who said brawl was boring, and how did this thread get derailed?

It's a competitive game because the Smash Community MADE it a competitive game. But it was MADE as a party game.

I don't like this post... I dont disagree with it, but i dislike the idea that any intention was made with "hardcore" and "casual" in mind. I think it was aimed at people who liked fighters, and people that like the mayhem, along with fans of all the games. Its a badass combination. This "Hardcore" and "Casual" crowd should be mixed with laughs.

^ I actually disagree here. Nintendo has always been one step ahead, not behind. They've always known how far to go graphically/whatever to keep cost at a minimum so it wasn't overly, priced. Their hardware also had less problems than their competitors. (How many launch Wii's failed vs ps3)

While motion is a gimmick, it definitely helped them own in sales. Though I love my ps3, I'm a Nintendo fanboy so yes I'm very, very biased. None the less, I really think Nintendo has done a great job at knowing how far to go.

The only two complaints this gen were motion gimmick and internet for me. But the later titles such as MHTri had better internet, so meh.

I do like how you mention it appealing more to the hardcore, though. This gen had more casual games than Ninty has ever made. They are not a casual company, and they certainly don't need to turn into one.

And as for exceeding the 360/ps3, Idk. I can see it rivaling/barely passing the 360, and... maybe not so much the ps3 (in terms of power) It took till now for the ps3 to reach it's potential, and it has so much left to explore. It was also vastly ahead of the other two consoles in many ways, which is why it had so many launch issues (well not why but it didn't help..)

I honestly think Nintendo/Microsoft will have new consoles out, but Sony may wait a while. There's no real point.

Who are you responding to? what are you disagreeing with? what are you arguing? Im sorry, but this seemed like ramble. Im lost

 

[Fuelbi]

But they do have competitive Rock Paper Scissors

 

[Falconv1.0]

I always love that term, 'hardcore', seeing how the overwhelming majority of people who play games, not even counting the super casual type like grandmas n ****, still see it as a 'hobby'.

Anyway, I highly doubt they'll make it competitive. They tried as hard as ****ing possible to make Brawl NOT competitive and people still manage to find that exciting even though it's pretty much a slower version of third strike, cept there isn't even that much potential for impressive **** like in Third Strike. So yeah, expect another poorly designed and barely play tested Smash.

And you will all ****ing love it.

 

[Spelt]

a smash that was made to be competitive would be amazing, but at the same time it has me worried how far they would go with it ...

 

[theeboredone]

Blood, limb injuries, fatalities, combos that are impossible to do connecting into supers.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

just asking, how is it not a competitive game already?

He means it wasn't designed to fit the competitive scene.

 

[Teran]

Yeah what Solid said, and that applies to all the Smash games.

 

[-DR3W-]

Well if they apply a new Smash game with their description of the new console in mind, it will be pretty amazing.

Think about it, each major platform Nintendo console from the Nintendo 64 on featured a Smash game. Why would they stop now? They sell like crazy, and they are always so anticipated. So it's pretty much ritual for them to make a new one.

The thing is, each Smash game was so different...who knows what this one will be like? Maybe actually fitting hitboxes.

 

[Flutter NiTE]

The thing is, each Smash game was so different...who knows what this one will be like? Maybe actually fitting hitboxes.

Don't get too ahead of yourself now..... This IS Sakurai we are talking about...

 

[IYM!]

would be cool see a Smash bros game with cool graphics

and with a balanced roster, this is than we realy need.

 

[Falconv1.0]

would be cool see a Smash bros game with cool graphics

and with a balanced roster, this is than we realy need.

We being who exactly? Because it seems like this **** sells pretty well as long as they add all the bells and whistles for casual players.

 

[deepseadiva]

We being who exactly? Because it seems like this **** sells pretty well as long as they add all the bells and whistles for casual players.

That's what I was thinking. A quick glance on Metacritic has Brawl with almost dozens of perfect 100 scores. I'm guessing it is selling pretty well. Where exactly is Nintendo getting negative competitive feedback from?

Should we start writing strongly worded letters?

 

[Falconv1.0]

That's what I was thinking. A quick glance on Metacritic has Brawl with almost dozens of perfect 100 scores. I'm guessing it is selling pretty well. Where exactly is Nintendo getting negative competitive feedback from?

Should we start writing strongly worded letters?

What's even better is Brawl still has a 'strong' competitive following, so why the **** should they even listen to complaints? It's like people are confusing Nintendo with Valve or some ****.

 

[Teran]

We being who exactly? Because it seems like this **** sells pretty well as long as they add all the bells and whistles for casual players.

I wouldn't say it's catering to casuals more than it's catering to die hard Nintendo fans. I mean wasn't what made Smash great originally for everyone here the fact that their favourite Nintendo characters were fighting on awesome Nintendo themed stages with very well arranged Nintendo music from over the ages?

The items had Nintendo themes, the trophies were fan service, in fact the entirety of Smash Bros. is that it's just one big fan service orgy for Nintendo fans.

I'm pretty sure people who consider themselves DERPHARDCORELOL play Smash Bros but not competitively. The competitive Smash community =/= hardcore gamers, although that term is ******** in itself, let's just say people who have a decent gaming history and are somewhat serious and picky with their game choices.

This generation has ruined people's understanding of gaming. You remember last gen when PS2 had all that disgraceful shovelware and all the ******* who didn't have a clue about games would buy one? I don't remember the term casual being spammed then, even though imo PS2's great success was largely attributed to this apparent demographic.

There are only 2 demographics, one who thinks computer games are srs bzns, and one who thinks they aiiiiiight feel me but only dat Madden and Need 4 Speed. Thing is, those people, and by those people I mean BLACK PEOPLE RIGHT? (That was a joke) Anyway those people wouldn't buy Smash because of the following logic

a) Nintendo is gay
b) Nintendo is for kids
c) Wii as a console is an exception cos it's cool innit
d) But Smash Bros has all the nerdy game characters lol
e) Need 4 Speed Underground feel me?

Was a ramble but **** it I'm tired of people saying that Smash Bros has somehow become a casual thing. Not really.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Honestly, if we get all hyper-realistically rendered games on this new system... well, I'm done.

I'm sorry, but I want some cel-shaded games.

Also, I wouldn't mind if the next Smash had brawl physics, so long as there isn't just one character who flat-out wins. Every smash has had that problem. Pikachu, then Foxco, and now Metaknight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What's even better is Brawl still has a 'strong' competitive following, so why the **** should they even listen to complaints? It's like people are confusing Nintendo with Valve or some ****.

Both are pretty good gaming companies actually, not sure why you would compare them like this when both have been successful.

Honestly, if we get all hyper-realistically rendered games on this new system... well, I'm done.

I'm sorry, but I want some cel-shaded games.

Also, I wouldn't mind if the next Smash had brawl physics, so long as there isn't just one character who flat-out wins. Every smash has had that problem. Pikachu, then Foxco, and now Metaknight.

Eh, not sure why it would be that much of a deal graphics wise, but ok.

Balance is never gonna be perfect in any installment. It's just how any competitive game.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

^ Cel Shade is nice. Realistic graphics get dull after awhile.

 

[King Funk]

Honestly, if we get all hyper-realistically rendered games on this new system... well, I'm done.

I'm sorry, but I want some cel-shaded games.

Also, I wouldn't mind if the next Smash had brawl physics, so long as there isn't just one character who flat-out wins. Every smash has had that problem. Pikachu, then Foxco, and now Metaknight.

I agree with Pikachu in 64 and MK in Brawl.

But Fox/Falco is not unbalanced at all in Melee in comparison to the other top/high tiers. However the game itself has the biggest imbalance between high and low tiers.

 

[Teran]

Honestly, if we get all hyper-realistically rendered games on this new system... well, I'm done.

I'm sorry, but I want some cel-shaded games.

Also, I wouldn't mind if the next Smash had brawl physics, so long as there isn't just one character who flat-out wins. Every smash has had that problem. Pikachu, then Foxco, and now Metaknight.

Bumping graphical power adds a lot to cel shading. Although it looks simplistic, cel shading is actually more graphics intensive than most realise.

Added horsepower allows for a much greater level of gloss and detail in terms of bumps and minor artisitc details. It'll help to create a more vibrant look.

I don't see cel shading going anywhere, it's a very good stylistic choice for some games, and should developers want to go that direction it'll only be better.

So yeah just like everything we have to rely on developers, but I can't imagine things like Mario looking like Crysis.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, I know. But I'm always worried. Like, personally I loved Wind Waker. It'd be my favourite Zelda of all time if they hadn't replaced two dungeons with a fetch quest.

And Zelda did start to go towards hyper-realism with TP. I mean, it was a beautiful game, but it's not what I think of when I think Zelda. Skyward Sword's art style is a nice balance.

 

[Jonas]

I hope they'll make wireless controllers easier to connect to the system (like PS3, you just plug in an USB cable). It would be impossible to run Brawl tournaments if everyone used Wiimote/classic controller.

 

[Teran]

Yeah, I know. But I'm always worried. Like, personally I loved Wind Waker. It'd be my favourite Zelda of all time if they hadn't replaced two dungeons with a fetch quest.

And Zelda did start to go towards hyper-realism with TP. I mean, it was a beautiful game, but it's not what I think of when I think Zelda. Skyward Sword's art style is a nice balance.

Zelda is an interesting case. The art style is chosen to match the theme and feel of the game. Each Zelda is unique, which is one thing that makes the series great.

 

[Alus]

But they do have competitive Rock Paper Scissors

And so is tic tac toe, there is no contradiction, what I am saying is that a game with great depth has more potential in a competitive scene than a simple straightforward game.

 

[M@v]

I just want nintendo to actually update and patch their stuff. If they cared about balance they could release patches in the future smash bros. to fix patches/bugs.

Blizzard releases patches like crazy to fix bugs/make balance changes in Sc2.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, I know. But I'm always worried. Like, personally I loved Wind Waker. It'd be my favourite Zelda of all time if they hadn't replaced two dungeons with a fetch quest.

And Zelda did start to go towards hyper-realism with TP. I mean, it was a beautiful game, but it's not what I think of when I think Zelda. Skyward Sword's art style is a nice balance.

I think it depends on the art direction they want to go with the Zelda games, OoT/Majora's Mask was trying to be more realistic despite being on the N64 Obvious cel shading.

Windwaker was going for a more cartoony style so they implemented it to a more extreme level.

I don't think Smash ever did something with cel shading to a degree where I noticed it fairly obviously like Wind Waker or Tales of Symphonia.

 

[Jonas]

Competitive tic tac toe? P1 wins every time if he knows how to play the game :/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Competitive tic tac toe? P1 wins every time if he knows how to play the game :/

Not true.

It will always end in a draw if both players play perfectly.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

But there's too much tech skill involved in Tic Tac Toe for anyone to reach that level of expertise.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I wouldn't say it's catering to casuals more than it's catering to die hard Nintendo fans. I mean wasn't what made Smash great originally for everyone here the fact that their favourite Nintendo characters were fighting on awesome Nintendo themed stages with very well arranged Nintendo music from over the ages?

By casuals I was referring to people who still only play as a hobby, not like a job or some ****. They don't constantly seek to get better or view it like a sport (well ok some Brawl players like to think they do even though they do jack **** compared to every other game ever). I'm a casual player, almost everyone who even posts in these kinds of threads talking about making the game more competitive is still a 'casual' player. Point is, as long as it has characters people like, good music, and they do a decent job hyping it up, it'll sell like crack and the complaints about it not being for 'hardcore' gamers wont mean **** in the end.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

By casuals I was referring to people who still only play as a hobby, not like a job or some ****. They don't constantly seek to get better or view it like a sport (well ok some Brawl players like to think they do even though they do jack **** compared to every other game ever). I'm a casual player, almost everyone who even posts in these kinds of threads talking about making the game more competitive is still a 'casual' player. Point is, as long as it has characters people like, good music, and they do a decent job hyping it up, it'll sell like crack and the complaints about it not being for 'hardcore' gamers wont mean **** in the end.

I dislike MvC2 and Naruto fighting games but I don't call people idiots for trying to get good in those games for the communities they exist with.

I only dislike people if they themselves are tools, not for the choices they make on what to play for a competitive video game or wanting to get good in.

I don't understand all the effort needed for some games mostly MMORPGs and such but I wouldn't undermine what effort those people make to get better in what they play.

 

[Teran]

By casuals I was referring to people who still only play as a hobby, not like a job or some ****. They don't constantly seek to get better or view it like a sport (well ok some Brawl players like to think they do even though they do jack **** compared to every other game ever). I'm a casual player, almost everyone who even posts in these kinds of threads talking about making the game more competitive is still a 'casual' player. Point is, as long as it has characters people like, good music, and they do a decent job hyping it up, it'll sell like crack and the complaints about it not being for 'hardcore' gamers wont mean **** in the end.

I get what you mean.

And in that case I hope they stick to your definition of casual because quite frankly I don't want to spend my life just trying to get mildly proficient at the game.