kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
lmao I've been reported for my comments on this thread? God I rock.
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Why Sheik will Return
- Thread starter dtp882
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vesperview
Smash Hero
You rock for flaming people and throwing insults for no apparent reason? WOW!
On topic, I don't see why you people can't look at it like this, if Melee focused more on OoT, then Brawl will focus more on TP is really that simple, the only thing in Melee that didn't relate to OoT was the Termina Bay.
Melee was more or less based off of both N64 games, because Young Link was mostly a MM theme without having the use of his masks, but both Adult and Young Link were based off of all of their incarnations, just focusing on the N64 era. To this effect I see no reason why Zelda doesn't also represent all incarnations but focusing on TP. I think the chances of Zelda being able to transform are just as likely as Sheik or Impa with Sheik's moves as a seperate character. There was a comment made on what LoZ rep could possibly replace Sheik, well that is Impa. She trained Sheik, she IS a full blooded sheikah, and she is definitely a skilled warrior, having served as the princess' personal bodyguard.
In reference to the manga, Nintendo does recognize them, obviously. They wouldn't even be in publication without Nintendo's consent. However, Nintendo has also stated that they are not official canon to the video games, they are only canon within themselves, as are with most manga.
In reference to the manga, Nintendo does recognize them, obviously. They wouldn't even be in publication without Nintendo's consent. However, Nintendo has also stated that they are not official canon to the video games, they are only canon within themselves, as are with most manga.
~*Ice Climbers*~
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2007
- Messages
- 31
You know what would be cool? If Zelda's Final Smash would be her transforming into Shiek!
Just a thought =P
Just a thought =P
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Lol a lot of people hve thought that already, it's still a good idea no matter how many times people say it, but it makes it the same as samus' final smash basically.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Plus there is no way for Zelda to attack to transform into Sheik.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
I remember reading some ideas on how it would work.
It went something like "The screen flashes and zelda dissapears. Out of no where someone is attacked with multiple strikes and then when zelda reappears, she is sheik", and then sheiks final smash is somewhat the same and turns her back into zelda.
It went something like "The screen flashes and zelda dissapears. Out of no where someone is attacked with multiple strikes and then when zelda reappears, she is sheik", and then sheiks final smash is somewhat the same and turns her back into zelda.
Super_alex2
Smash Journeyman
No it would be cool if Shiek were a completely different character, or Zelda could change whenever pleased. NOT a FS.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Sheik won't be her own character, it's a waste.
You mean that? It's the only way I can think of that incorporates a Zelda-Sheik Transformation in her Final Smash.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Yea drake, that was it :]
SiD
Smash Master
A waste of what? Of absolutely nothing. It's not as if they have a set amount of character slots, the game got delayed so they could add everything they want to. So let's just assume everyone gets in that they wanted, and then they add in Shiek too. Would you really have a problem with that?
Also, that Kinetic guy is a super troll, super *******, and he has the audacity to ask me for an allegiance via PM just because we both want Shiek in. Well dude, hell no. I want Shiek in for real reasons, you think "She's a ninja" is a legitimate reason for her to return.
vesperview
Smash Hero
SiD
Smash Master
I never admit that at all, I'm just saying that if by some chance she were "taking up a spot" of another character that's more important, and not someone stupid like Balloon fighter or some ****, than sure she shouldn't return. But since I know that's not true, she absolutely deserves to be in because she has fans and she was in Melee, AND they can put in as many as they want.
vesperview
Smash Hero
SiD
Smash Master
Ok...it was right the first time too. But whatever, doesn't matter. Don't know why you hate shiek so much, but it's not really important as I'm 90% sure she'll return.
Zone
Smash Champion
Then how did she make it into Melee? If she in general didn't do anything deserving to be a character then why is she in Melee? And don't say she's half zelda. .000000000000000001% of the ssbm population play both Zelda and Shiek in one match. Everyone else it's one way or the other. Shiek pretty much was her own character in Melee.
You are making it sound like she has no chance. She has a chance -.-; May not be extremely high, but it's not as extremely low as you seem to be making it be.
Cool gimmick? I'm pretty sure they were still going along with that "Wow, Zelda is Sheik!" factor.
Zone
Smash Champion
k why can't she be her own character as a "Cool gimmick" "Wow shiek is her own character" I'm simply pointing out that some of you guys are making it sound like it's near impossible for her to still be in >.>;
I never said she couldn't. All I did was answer your question.
vesperview
Smash Hero
She was in Melee cause she wasn't her own character, that's what I'm saying, what is so different between then and now that could grant Sheik her own spot in Brawl and not a Zelda transformation only? And don't say Melee importance cause that's not valid.
Zone
Smash Champion
Nothing you can say can disprove she could be her own character. Nothing... Nor can anything I say can prove she will be her own character. But From Logical stand point. Why not? He made Dr.Mario a seperate character from Mario and not just a alt costume or something.
I don't get how you seem to place shiek's chances of being her own character so low.
1.) She had a cool moveset, she just needs a nerf (But preferably I prefer everyone else just get a buff, and leave shiek)
2.) And to keep such a moveset, but no have her overshadow Zelda. You seperate them.
3.) She's a fun character to play. Not because she's broken. But even before the days of breaking down the game. She was fun to play as.
She has a chance to be in the game. Either as Zelda's down B and if not possibly her own character slot. I know full well she may not be a playable character at all But I'm open to both ideas until i'm shown otherwise.
You just seem to be one-sided and I'm trying to get you to be nuetral on the possibilitys of shiek being in or not. Since both are very possible of happening.
Ah I thought you were trying to create a counter argument to that. Btw that Question was rhetorical as I'm sure you knew.
Dare I add more speculation?
...
...
Yes.
Ok, so Link has a taunt where a fairy pops out. Where could this possibly be from. Obviously, this could be one of the many fairies found across the land of all zelda games, but why can't this fairy in fact be Navi. So, assuming this is the case, why can't other LoZ characters have some other representations from the different games.
And for those flamers who refuse to even consider otherwise, this is speculation, not me saying that this is Navi therefore every character has to have OoT or whatever radical accusations you may think of. A small, unnofficial and in no way definite inclination towards more OoT representation.
...
...
Yes.
Ok, so Link has a taunt where a fairy pops out. Where could this possibly be from. Obviously, this could be one of the many fairies found across the land of all zelda games, but why can't this fairy in fact be Navi. So, assuming this is the case, why can't other LoZ characters have some other representations from the different games.
And for those flamers who refuse to even consider otherwise, this is speculation, not me saying that this is Navi therefore every character has to have OoT or whatever radical accusations you may think of. A small, unnofficial and in no way definite inclination towards more OoT representation.
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
i cannot understand why their are people that want sheik out why? their has yet to this date been one good legitimate reason that sheik should be out. I honestly want to know from all the people against sheik is it just because you don't like sheik or is it some other reason. All in all honestly if there is dislike for sheik just don't use her it is that simple, because their are a lot of people that like to play as sheik she is a valid character to be on smash like SID was pointing out it doesn't matter because their is no set number of slots they will add what ever they want.
I know you meant it in a rhetorical way, but the only reason why Sheik was in Melee was because at the time she had the cool Zelda/Sheik factor. Other than that, she didn't do anything to deserve being in.
So long as you realise they can take out whoever they want. And I really need to get this out there:
Now that that's out of the way, let me draw your attention to a certain Mario. Remember Mario? He was shown in those awesome 2006 trailers. We saw his fireball, his cape, his tornado, and his super jump and we all assumed that these were still his special attacks. The one thing we didn't see, until 2007, was that Sora changed a few things around and he was blessed with a new special from one of his recent games. Like magic, because we all knew that he kept his 4 specials. Bless my socks.Gimpyfish62 said:
It's 2007 and, in theory, we've only seen 1 special attack from Zelda given to us by that heart-breaking 1st Launch Date trailer. We've technically seen 2 but cameras weren't allowed at E 4 All, remember? Yes, a million years later and we've only seen 2 of Zelda's special attacks. What a coincidence. A few days later, thanks to illegal E4All videos, we've seen practically all there is to know about Peach, Bowser, and whoever else, but still not Zelda. What a coincidence.
This is why I think something has changed. Although, if nothing changed I wouldn't be surprised, because Sakurai's insane.
I have to admit that the Sheik-opposition really doesn't have facts on its side. Well, more or less. That depends entirely on how dearly Sakurai holds continuity...
Either way, I'll try to sum up the arguments versus Sheik.
1. The reason for Sheik's existence in Melee is to be a gimmick enhancing Zelda. Zelda herself never did anything up to that point that would give her a great basis for a moveset, so they decided to throw in Sheik to make her seem cool, and she did indeed seem cool. At first. I don't know how rushed Melee's development was, but any idiot should've been able to see that the transformation aspect didn't work and that Sheik destroyed the whole character.
Naturally, they could fix that now.
But the gimmick of switching has been revived in two other characters now. It works differently in both cases, but that might just be Sakurai's method of fixing the whole problem with the concept of transforming.
-> The originality factor is gone.[/s]
2. Continuity. Zelda looks like Zelda from TP and should act like her. So far, she doesn't, and since I'm kind of losing trust in Sakurai, I'm not certain that he'll do anything to fix this. The point is, he should, because just reusing the absolutely painfully horrible moveset from Melee is just half-***** and lazy.
-> Zelda has shown new abilities in recent games and should be able to make use of them; and the concept of a Zelda who looks TP but acts completely OoT is just nonsensical.
3. There are better characters. Yes, I know, there's not really a number of slots or anything and this is kind of an argument that can be applied to anyone, but, really.
If continuity matters, Zelda should get a new down-b and not transform into Sheik. She should be a complete character in her own right.
Then there's the possibility of having Sheik as a stand-alone character, but she just doesn't seem deserving enough compared to all the other potential characters there are.
Her moveset could just as well be preserved in non-broken form within Tetra, who would make a good addition along with WW Link, both of whom deserve to be in the game. At least more so than Sheik. ( Don't try to argue this one, you'll lose. ) And then there's Midna.
Sheik is just a disguise without a canon personality of itself or anything. The noteworthy part is that it shows Zelda being not-so-distressed a damsel and actually having a more active role in the plot. The same can easily be personified in Tetra, who has an even far more active role in her game and appears in two so far.
And even still, I'm not sure whether preserving movesets is of any importance, since it's not like they can just import that stuff and stick it on an improved model. At least, I think that's not the way it is.
-> If Sheik isn't made part of Zelda, she fades in importance compared to other potential newcomers too much to warrant an appearance as a character in her own right, which wouldn't even make sense considering that Sheik is just a disguise.
... Well, I think that's all I've got.
I hope I didn't offend anyone.
balladofwindfishes
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 224
but see, the counter argument is all ifs and possiblies, whereas we're positive through confirmation of a reliable source that Sheik IS in the game somewhere, no ifs required.
vesperview
Smash Hero
If you people gave better arguments than, "Oh her moveset is cool and she is awesome" maybe I wouldn't be so one sided, and what is that overshadowing Zelda thing? Just because Zelda doesn't have Sheik with her doesn't mean people are gonna use her.
But I give you a point in your favor, Sakurai really gives a **** about continuity, how can TP Link, carry Navi for his taunt?
Well, the Wii version of TP did have a fairy as a cursor... ... and the healing fairies you catch in bottles all look the same. There's no telling that it's actually Navi.
And yes, the Sheik supporters have one arguable fact on their side. The anti-Sheik arguments are mostly not so much arguments for why she won't be in as they are arguments for why she shouldn't.
And yes, the Sheik supporters have one arguable fact on their side. The anti-Sheik arguments are mostly not so much arguments for why she won't be in as they are arguments for why she shouldn't.
balladofwindfishes
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 224
huh? Last I checked most of the people for sheik used more factual things like lack of Zelda coverage, the interview with her creator about Sheik's model in brawl.
vesperview
Smash Hero
That's not factual, you people talk as if absolutely NOONE uses Zelda because of Sheik.
So? Could be for PC, AT, Trophy or not be used at all.
Storm Eagle
Smash Lord
If Sheik get's a kicka** makeover like Link and Zelda, I'll go for it. Sheik 4 Brawl!
geemann2236
Smash Journeyman
SHIEK WILL RETURN BECAUSE I SAID SO!!! Thank you very much, have a nice day.
Like, yeah, dude, I mean, like, Zelda without transforming that's like, you know, how the hell does that even work I mean it's like a woman thing I mean, my mom transforms like ALL the time!
Curses, foiled again!
Zone
Smash Champion
Why throw away a lot of work on 1 move set when it can be used again? That was my point. Not because she's "Cool" although cool/popularity is a factor to people getting in. Hence how Sonic made it in by Cool(aka popularity)
In SSBM Zelda IS OVERSHADOWED by Shiek. The number of shiek players far outweigh Zelda.
balladofwindfishes
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2007
- Messages
- 224
But because Mario overshadows Luigi in [all] of his games, he should be removed? Ganon is overshadowed by Falcon, yet he'll probably return. Overhsadowing another character, whether your alter ego or not is no reason to be kicked. I am almost positive one of the Pokemon PT has will be superior, once its found its superior should all new editions of smash get rid of that Pokemon? People will begin to develope strategies and systems to work around stamina, I guarentee it.
Overshadowing Zelda is not as much of a valid reason to remove sheik. Again, it's like removing Ganon because Falcon is more liked and used.
Overshadowing Zelda is not as much of a valid reason to remove sheik. Again, it's like removing Ganon because Falcon is more liked and used.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Still, if Sheik's staying if should be for a far better reason than "Oh, let's not waste her moveset"
Those are the most terrible examples in the book, Zelda overshadows Sheik in EVERY sense, if she doesn't overshadow Sheik in Melee is because Sheik was overpowered and n00b friendly, if Zelda was the one with the amazing overpowered moveset NOONE would use Sheik, Ganon and Falcon are not even from the same game and most definitely each of PT's pokemon will prevail in their own way, your example is probably as bad as the FLUDD one a few pages back.
Zone
Smash Champion
You misunderstand me I didn't say TAKE SHIEK OUT.
My only point is there is a possibility for Shiek to be seperate from Zelda. Everyone else is making it seem like it's freaking impossible
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