Why Sheik will Return

[Zone]

Still, if Sheik's staying if should be for a far better reason than "Oh, let's not waste her moveset"



Those are the most terrible examples in the book, Zelda overshadows Sheik in EVERY sense, if she doesn't overshadow Sheik in Melee is because Sheik was overpowered and n00b friendly, if Zelda was the one with the amazing overpowered moveset NOONE would use Sheik, Ganon and Falcon are not even from the same game and most definitely each of PT's pokemon will prevail in their own way, your example is probably as bad as the FLUDD one a few pages back.

That isn't the only reason and u know it.

Sorry for double post. ::EDIT:: I'm dying in FFXI as I typed it and was in a hurry lol

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

If you people gave better arguments than, "Oh her moveset is cool and she is awesome" maybe I wouldn't be so one sided

This is a viable point, actually. The vast majority perfers *ninjas* (and I use that term with great satisfaction) as opposed to princesses.

Get over it.

someone stupid like Balloon fighter or some ****,

I think we can all agree coolness plays a role in this.

 

[Zone]

This is a viable point, actually. The vast majority perfers *ninjas* (and I use that term with great satisfaction) as opposed to princesses.

Get over it.



I think we can all agree coolness plays a role in this.

Coolness has a popularity factor.

People think Sonic is cool.
People want sonic in.
Those people = a population
The bigger the population the bigger the demand
The bigger the demand the more likely it is given to make money.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Exactly. Also, some things are just generally cool. Like fire.

 

[Zone]

Exactly. Also, some things are just generally cool. Like fire.

Yea how else do you think Roy made it into Melee?

EDIT:

Still, if Sheik's staying if should be for a far better reason than "Oh, let's not waste her moveset"



Those are the most terrible examples in the book, Zelda overshadows Sheik in EVERY sense, if she doesn't overshadow Sheik in Melee is because Sheik was overpowered and n00b friendly, if Zelda was the one with the amazing overpowered moveset NOONE would use Sheik, Ganon and Falcon are not even from the same game and most definitely each of PT's pokemon will prevail in their own way, your example is probably as bad as the FLUDD one a few pages back.

Gonna comment on the 2nd half.

if Zelda was the one with the amazing overpowered moveset NOONE would use Sheik

Opinions opinions opinions... Are you Everyone? So how do you know what pple will and will not use? You don't.

most definitely each of PT's pokemon will prevail in their own way

Sakurai Learned his lesson. He is unlike the Shiek/Zelda way. You could change and stay w/e you want. Sakurai Wants pple to play all 3 so he FORCES you to change. Read about Poke'mon Trainer. They have stamina, so changing too fast or too slow will have consequences. That's a poor example of overshadowing.

What does Ganon and Captain falcon have to do with anything? They are seperate characters, they are pretty even on the tier list. PRobably equally popular tounament wise. They play COMPLETELY different depsite the moves looking* similar. They don't overshadow eachother or even remotely come close to that.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Probably the same way Sheik will make it into Brawl

 

[Circus]

Exactly. Also, some things are just generally cool. Like fire.

Lawlz. I see what you did there.

This whole thread is bunk at this point. Everyone's arguing the same points and everyone's just as stubborn and unwilling to see the points of view of others. I'm exhausted just reading it all.

 

[Zone]

I know you meant it in a rhetorical way, but the only reason why Sheik was in Melee was because at the time she had the cool Zelda/Sheik factor. Other than that, she didn't do anything to deserve being in.

I don't really understand your point of view. You make it sound like shiek was ment to be like an easter egg.

I just want to ask you one question.
What do you think Shiek's chances are of being in as part of Zelda's moveset?

What do you think Shiek's chances are of being in as her own character?

What do you think the chances are of Shiek not being in at all?

Lawlz. I see what you did there.

This whole thread is bunk at this point. Everyone's arguing the same points and everyone's just as stubborn and unwilling to see the points of view of others. I'm exhausted just reading it all.

lol That was my beginning point. I just don't understand the 1-sided viewers. I can see shiek not making it in as well as making it in.

 

[vesperview]

Coolness has a popularity factor.

People think Sonic is cool.
People want sonic in.
Those people = a population
The bigger the population the bigger the demand
The bigger the demand the more likely it is given to make money.

Stop comparing Sheik to Sonic and if you think is just opinions, why don't you tell me how Sheik actually overshadows Zelda outside of Smash? Seriously, if Zelda was the overpowered one, it would be the other way around, Zelda is far more popular than Sheik, or are you gonna argue that too?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Circus and Zone, I seriously was being stupid intentionally there. I wasn't mocking anyone or stating some hidden message. There was no real joke to it, just me being an *** lol I do happen to enjoy looking at fire. That's all I meant.

 

[Zone]

Stop comparing Sheik to Sonic, it's pathetic and if you think is just opinions, why don't you tell me how Sheik actually overshadows Zelda outside of Smash? Seriously, if Zelda was the overpowered one, it would be the other way around, Zelda is far more popular than Sheik, or are you gonna argue that too?

Um.... I was just stating how Cool* factor can play a role. I didn't compare it to shiek. Sonic is probably far more popular than Shiek. But there is no denying Shiek was popular in SSBM, slightly because of the cool factor. *this point holds bigger merit when SSBM was first released where tiers didn't hold ground yet*

I never said Shiek overshadows Zelda outside of smash. I can't give you an example cuz it doesn't exist. But we are talking about Smash and Brawl not the Zelda series. As since nothing outside of the game matters too much what's gonna be put in for Zelda. Since she didn't do much but talk and shoot stuff on a back of a horse.

"It's pathetic"
Thanks for the insult. Please hold an adult conversation. The reason I can keep bringing up things against your pov. is because I can't prove you wrong, as you can't prove me wrong. That is my point in me arguing with you.

I just want you to see people who hold opinions about shiek as a seperate character, or as part of Zelda's Character or not in at all. ARE ALL OPINIONS. Therefore there is no way for you to be so one-sided about your pov. You should see that any of these scenarios have a chance. stop being narrowminded.

If Zelda was more powerful than shiek, She would overshadow shiek in tournament play. But frankly at newb level, people play who they think are "Cool" "Admire" "Enjoy playing as" And to say shiek does not have a fun moveset is a lie, because there are alot of people out there that hold that opinion. Moveset does matter to character popularity.

Plenty of people played shiek before people knew she was super high tier. Look at the typical teenage mind. They play characters they think are *cool* which is why Captain Falcon, Ganondorf, Shiek, Samus, Link, Fox, were so popular when you went to early smash games and tournaments (Old ones). because they originally picked them cuz of their cool *factor* stop acting like it isn't a factor to anything. People play them for other obvious reasons to, but There is a reason Pichu, Yoshi, Ness aren't picked as much out of tournament scene, even before tournament depth was found.

Just as girls tend to pick pikachu-pichu-jigglypuff Because they are "cute".

You sir are too narrow minded. That is my last statement to you.

There is a chance for nearly anything. No one saw a create a level coming into our faces. And it did. and I'm willing to bet people like you, when someone came up with such an idea probably woulda said something like "No. it's not gonna happen cuz blah blah."

Understand there "IS NO EVIDENCE" pointing to shiek not making it in.

As there is "NO EVIDENCE" of her making it in.

Note: I know other reasons beside cool Factor exists. So don't say I'm saying that's the only reason.

EDIT:
1.) Final example of cool factor.

I for one would not Play Captain Falcon's move-set if the character having it was say... Barney the Dinosaur.

And I don't think alot of other people would either.

People like captain falcon cuz he's
1.) got a decent moveset
2.) He looks cool
3.) He makes manly noises
4.) He's fun to crack jokes on.
5.) He pulls off flashy combos.
6.) Isai, Dark Rain, GAwes, Silent Spectre, Cort, Zoso, and others, make him look awsome at a professional pov.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

I just want you to see people who hold opinions about shiek as a seperate character, or as part of Zelda's Character or not in at all. ARE ALL OPINIONS.

But we all know my opinions rock the hardest

There is a chance for nearly anything. No one saw a create a level coming into our faces. And it did.

I actually had a gut feeling it would happen. It's just because I rock.

Understand there "IS NO EVIDENCE" pointing to shiek not making it in.

As there is "NO EVIDENCE" of her making it in.

I don't think that's absolute but it's more or less true, yeah.

I just personally would like to see Sheik back, I liked the transformation, I like her style, I liked the character, I liked the look.

For the record, though I am an *** much of the time I don't exactly mean to be - more so dark/dry/poor humor for the most part. Also, I understand people having differnt opinions, and that's fine.

Just don't **** with Sheik.

^^^^^^^^^^^ JOKE. (ish)

 

[Zone]

But we all know my opinions rock the hardest



I actually had a gut feeling it would happen. It's just because I rock.



I don't think that's absolute but it's more or less true, yeah.

I just personally would like to see Sheik back, I liked the transformation, I like her style, I liked the character, I liked the look.

For the record, though I am an *** much of the time I don't exactly mean to be - more so dark/dry/poor humor for the most part. Also, I understand people having differnt opinions, and that's fine.

Just don't **** with Sheik.

^^^^^^^^^^^ JOKE. (ish)

I guess I shoulda said HARD evidence.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

I for one would not Play Captain Falcon's move-set if the character having it was say... Barney the Dinosaur.

And I don't think alot of other people would either.

People like captain falcon cuz he's
1.) got a decent moveset
2.) He looks cool
3.) He makes manly noises
4.) He's fun to crack jokes on.
5.) He pulls off flashy combos.
6.) Isai, Dark Rain, GAwes, Silent Spectre and others, make him look awsome at a professional pov.

I agree with all of this. Well done.

I would just add that he's got sexy nipples too.

 

[Zone]

I agree with all of this. Well done.

I would just add that he's got sexy nipples too.

That he does. I think his nipples should give you 2% dmg if you brush up against them.

Edit: Shoulda added another reason pple play him but was so obvious I didn't think I needed to

7.) People who played his F-zero games, know that they get to play with one of their fav characters from their games.

 

[zSTACKz]

even if zelda was overpowered i would still play as sheik

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

That's probably true for me too. I have nothing against Zelda though.

 

[Drake3]

I don't really understand your point of view. You make it sound like shiek was ment to be like an easter egg.

No, easter egg is a bad way of describing it. I like to look at it as a one-shot wonder. At the time, the identity of Sheik being Zelda was a huge thing. It no longer is. What I'm trying to say is that if Windwaker and OoT traded places in terms of release dates, Zelda would've transformed into Tetra for Melee.

I just want to ask you one question.
What do you think Shiek's chances are of being in as part of Zelda's moveset?

What do you think Shiek's chances are of being in as her own character?

What do you think the chances are of Shiek not being in at all?

My answer is simply that I don't know. I don't have enough information to determine Sheik's fate, but I do have faith in Sora to make whatever outcome they chose, work. After seeing how incredibly balanced all of the characters were in the demo *kicks Ike out of the way*, I believe that in the end, it'll be fine.

Aaaand those were 3 questions >______>.

 

[Circus]

After seeing how incredibly balanced all of the characters were in the demo *kicks Ike out of the way*, I believe that in the end, it'll be fine.

*spit take, followed by fierce, pant-wetting laughter*

I just got this mental picture of Ike doing his "badass" taunt (where he throws his sword in the ground and crosses his arms) only to IMMEDIATELY fly off screen via some random foot to the ribs.

 

[SiD]

Okay vesper, a reason other than "Let's not waste her moveset".

She's cool. I think she is, anyway, and so do many other people. Why do you want Midna in Brawl? Because you like the character, correct? Well, it's the same here, and just as valid with Shiek as with any character.

 

[Iris]

Same can be applied to why she shouldn't be a playable character. Coolness isn't a deciding factor when there's pretty much an equal amount of people who want Zelda to be stand-alone because they think that would be more "cool."

It's completely up in the air, regardless of how some people feel about Sheik.

 

[ComradeCanada]

I think if Sheik is in, it'd be as a stand alone.
I wouldn't mind, most sheik players played as her exclusively any ways.

 

[Zone]

No, easter egg is a bad way of describing it. I like to look at it as a one-shot wonder. At the time, the identity of Sheik being Zelda was a huge thing. It no longer is. What I'm trying to say is that if Windwaker and OoT traded places in terms of release dates, Zelda would've transformed into Tetra for Melee.



My answer is simply that I don't know. I don't have enough information to determine Sheik's fate, but I do have faith in Sora to make whatever outcome they chose, work. After seeing how incredibly balanced all of the characters were in the demo *kicks Ike out of the way*, I believe that in the end, it'll be fine.

Aaaand those were 3 questions >______>.

lol that it was. Well then I'm on the same page as you.

Same can be applied to why she shouldn't be a playable character. Coolness isn't a deciding factor when there's pretty much an equal amount of people who want Zelda to be stand-alone because they think that would be more "cool."

It's completely up in the air, regardless of how some people feel about Sheik.

Exactly so why not just seperate them, and Keep sheik in the game. I like Shiek, I like Zelda. But as a Zelda player, I wish she had her own Down B. And since barely anyone people actually switch often between the two mid fight, it would do both fan sides good.

 

[vesperview]

Okay vesper, a reason other than "Let's not waste her moveset".

She's cool. I think she is, anyway, and so do many other people. Why do you want Midna in Brawl? Because you like the character, correct? Well, it's the same here, and just as valid with Shiek as with any character.

What really makes you think moveset and being cool is enough to support Sheik? Seriously, plus, I already made the Midna and Vaati thing clear, as long as one of them makes it, I don't really care if Sheik returns, but no! Cool and unique moveset are not good reasons.

 

[zSTACKz]

That's why i like sheik because she's cool

 

[Black/Light]

. . .. The way I see it Shiek is like Ness but with less reason to even be in.

Ness had tons of fans and a VERY unique move-set. (Just like Shiek has)

Not only that but he has appeared in the past 2 smash games (Sheik only appeared in Melee thogh)

He was the main character of his game which was the las EB game world wide (Sheik aint the main character of jack and over all wasn't very important in OoT)

. . . .But Ness is no longer relavent to his series and Lucas has fulled his spot despite Ness's unique move-set/ Popularity/ Importants to his game and appearing in the last 2 smash games. If thats the case with Ness than I PERSONALLY don't see why Sheik, a character with her move-set being the sole reason fo her return given the fact she aint important to her series in the lest bit and is no longer relavent in the games, would come back.

I think Sakurai has pulled a Ness on Sheik and stripped her move-set to give it to other characters like Zero suit and so on.

Theres my thoughts on it. . . I also think that Zelda hasn't been updated BECAUSE things have changed in her move-set just like Lucas wan't updated for a well to hide the fact that he is replacing Ness. For all we know 2 of her B moves (B and Bv) are completely different now (Din's fire COULD be made a Smash like Snake's upwards missle IMO seeing as Mario's old Bv was also placed on a different move).

 

[Drake3]

Din's fire COULD be made a Smash like Snake's upwards missle IMO seeing as Mario's old Bv was also placed on a different move.

That thought crossed my mind, but I'm not sure how well I'd like it. Nayru's Love could have also transferred into a smash attack. Aaaand now I'm getting paranoid. Zelda info needed pl0x.

 

[Zone]

. . .. The way I see it Shiek is like Ness but with less reason to even be in.

Ness had tons of fans and a VERY unique move-set. (Just like Shiek has)

Not only that but he has appeared in the past 2 smash games (Sheik only appeared in Melee thogh)

He was the main character of his game which was the las EB game world wide (Sheik aint the main character of jack and over all wasn't very important in OoT)

. . . .But Ness is no longer relavent to his series and Lucas has fulled his spot despite Ness's unique move-set/ Popularity/ Importants to his game and appearing in the last 2 smash games. If thats the case with Ness than I PERSONALLY don't see why Sheik, a character with her move-set being the sole reason fo her return given the fact she aint important to her series in the lest bit and is no longer relavent in the games, would come back.

I think Sakurai has pulled a Ness on Sheik and stripped her move-set to give it to other characters like Zero suit and so on.

Theres my thoughts on it. . . I also think that Zelda hasn't been updated BECAUSE things have changed in her move-set just like Lucas wan't updated for a well to hide the fact that he is replacing Ness. For all we know 2 of her B moves (B and Bv) are completely different now (Din's fire COULD be made a Smash like Snake's upwards missle IMO seeing as Mario's old Bv was also placed on a different move).

correct if I'm wrong but doesn't Lucas have similar move-set to Ness? Possibly buffed or nerfed. Which if they kept ness were probably gonna do anyway.
EDIT: nvm I skimmed ur post too fast. But yea, Zero Suit samus seems to have some of shiek's moveset. That's a valid reason supporting the shiek may not make it ideal. But again it doesn't prove anything which is why my opinion about her being in or out is still neutral.


@Vesper:
Yes Cool factor, and Moveset ARE VALID REASONS. But not big enough to actually make it happen. There are other factors of course

Major roles
Roles in General
Significance
Popularity (which cool is a building block of)
Fun (Moveset is building block of)
Appearing in a Major selling Nintendo game.
Reocurring in multiple nintendo games.

You can't tell me popularity(which cool factor is a building block to) and Fun (Which the moveset WAS fun) Aren't valid reasons...

They are. now stop saying they aren't. You're just shutting out any opposition and your only objection is "No it's not." or "That's not good enough." Of course no evidence now is good enough. Not even yours.

Cool and moveset - ARe good reasons, but they probably aren't good enough. But neither are your reasons. Any reason you can make at this point can only be kinda good but not good enough. Just like all of the shiek being in logic/minor evidence.

 

[SiD]

Zero suit is nothing like shiek, most of her moves involve that whip, and obviously her B moves are COMPLETELY different. Tell me that about Lucas.

Also, Vesper, you can't just say that any reason I give "isn't good enough." You don't get to decide that. And Zone is right, popularity is a pretty large factor as well, you can't deny that. So she's popular, she was in Smash before, so if Sakurai agrees that she is cool. or possibly even if he doesn't, she'll be returning. Her chances are actually pretty good.

 

[Black/Light]

Zero suit is nothing like shiek, most of her moves involve that whip, and obviously her B moves are COMPLETELY different. Tell me that about Lucas.

I said "I think Sakurai has pulled a Ness on Sheik and stripped her move-set to give it to other characters like Zero suit and so on.

Never said Zero only, just Zero plus other characters yet to be named. Plus, Zero's side B (Whip like Sheik's chain) and Bv (Teleportation) are both like Sheik in some manner. . . from the looks of it there are very few people who can say they have played her long enuff to name everymove so you would be wrong in saying she is "nothing like Sheik" just as I to say that "she is just like Sheik (which I never said, just pointed out the few moves they share which I know of)".

 

[SiD]

Um her side B acts completely different than Shieks, and her Down b isn't a teleport, it's a jump that I'm guessing makes her invincible.

 

[Iris]

Still, I know ZSS has some moves of Sheik's. Sheik's Bair and DownSmash are on the dojo site with ZSS's moves, her neutral A looked pretty similar, and a few of her specials function a lot alike. Example, chargable small knockback stun move? Much like needles. Repelling whip? Similar to Sheik's chain. Of course they aren't exactly alike, but there are some moves that are surprisingly similar.

 

[Black/Light]

Um her side B acts completely different than Shieks, and her Down b isn't a teleport, it's a jump that I'm guessing makes her invincible.

Never said they had to act the same, just that they are both simalure in the fact that they are whip like.

And here.

Her down b is a little teleport jump. It looks a lot like Sheik's up+b in the air, how she does a little flip jump. Zamus flashes during this time, possibly indicating invulnerability. I don't remember if she falls helplessly to the ground after it or if she can attack.

From the one vid I have seen of this Zero does a barral roll in mid air and teleports to another area in a barral roll. (well flashing)

Really, these are only the few things I know about Zero as fact. I have seen people claim that "its a good thing she is only the result of a FS! She is friggen SHEIK CHEAP! " and " She didn't seem too interesting. . ." and "she feels like a not-so-cheap sheik in the way she plays". What ever the review I often times see people relate her to Sheik in moves and/ or play style.

 

[HollabackRyu]

Sheik's gone people DEAL WITH IT!

 

[Iris]

Oh right, her jumps look a lot like Sheik's too. First jump a leg is extended and one pulled in, second is a barrel roll.

 

[Stryks]

"Shes gonna return because she's awesome"

FAIL

and how the HELL was shiek in 2 games?

seriously people there are 2 ways sheik is deconfirmed:

1) Zeldas TP design: since shes practically TP zelda, WHY would she transform into her hundreds of years old alternate form?she didnt even had the training to do that in TP!

and

2) if she IS representing ALL the zeldas, then why give her an OoT exclusive form? shes ALL the zeldas in one afterall, its like if we give her tetra, it wouldnt make sense...

just do this:
B move: Light Arrows
Up b: same
Side B: same
down b: nayrus love, it would fit, since its mostly a defensive attack...

 

[vesperview]

So basically it is like this:

Pros: (Or so you say)

Unique Moveset
Coolness

Cons:

Sheik's an outdated Zelda character.
Twilight Princess above OoT in Brawl.

Yeah those pros FAIL!

 

[zSTACKz]

yeah the cons fail too

 

[vesperview]

yeah the cons fail too

Unless you can argue them, I don't see the point of your post.

 

[Your Hero]

Stryks, I've already stated the exact same moveset in this thread.