Why Sheik will Return

[Soluble Toast]

yeah the cons fail too

The cons are more logical.
Sheik is indeed a VERY out-dated character. I can understand out-dated characters making a return if they were the star of their franchise , but Sheik wasn't even a star of OOT. IMO He/she was pretty much a filler to add suspense to Zelda's return at the end of the game, and to just generally include Zelda within the storyline so we didn't think she fell off the face of the earth for 7 years. He/ she was not important. Sheik's role could have easily been filled by Rauru.


- Waits for the " she was in melee so she's important enough to be in Brawl" counter argument-

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

"Shes gonna return because she's awesome"

FAIL

Well, if you consider everything about the character, I think the term 'awesome' sums it up nicely.

Stop picking on phrases or words that may seem hollow. We already went over how the whole cool factor thing is viable.

When people say something like that you know what they mean (moveset, speed, looks, character so on), and if not, you're choosing not to understand the person.

I bet even if someone said "She's awesome because *lists off reasoning and explains it in detail*" people would be all over that saying "That's a poor argument, Midna's better because blah blah blah" regardless.

No one can win lol

 

[vesperview]

Just because you say it's viable doesn't mean it actually is, being awesome is hardly an argument, all characters are awesome, so what's your point?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

I'm saying that it's subjective, and when someone is saying that consider why they are saying it. You don't have to argue with them over it. Ask a question if anything.

EX of how considerate people should be thinking:

PERSON1"I think Mario is awesome"

PERSON2**Ah, he must like those positive aspects such as high jumping and Goomba pwnage. To him it must be appealing.**

Instead of:
PERSON1"I think Mario is awesome"

PERSON2"You suck for saying that!"

How are you getting anywhere like that? When someone says "Sheik is cool", the point is that there are people who are fans of Sheik, and when that happens, game creators take it into consideration. No need to hate on fans.

I'm just trying to make a point. Either people are too stupid to understand it, or they are - like I said - choosing not to. It's all about consideration.

BTW does this sound odd coming from me?

 

[zSTACKz]

Yeah it's true that sheik was a
filler character but she was kind of important by teaching you the temple songs

 

[vesperview]

No one is arguing Sheik is awesome, we're arguing that being awesome is not reason enough to return and none of you can actually counter that.

 

[Your Hero]

Yes it does sound odd coming from you.

anyways I dont see why you guys care so much for sheik.just give some of her moves to a new character (besides ZSS) and make her a babe, it's win-win :]

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Not true at all. They could have had stone tablets with songs written on them and that's how you learn the songs instead. Sheik added more interest.

Filler character... You might as well say Peach is a filler to Mario games then!

She does nothing. She just gets captured.

Now Sheik does - and I use this word heavily - VASTLY more than Peach has ever done. Ever. Should Peach leave Smash games? No, she has fans.

It's a CHARACTER. When you add a CHARACTER to a story that character becomes more than a simple "tool" as you people imply!! People like Peach not because of how she's designed to operate, but because of the CHARACTER. Same goes for Sheik, so shut it about the issue.

 

[vesperview]

Not true at all. They could have had stone tablets with songs written on them and that's how you learn the songs instead. Sheik added more interest.

So? It would've made absolutely no difference.

Filler character... You might as well say Peach is a filler to Mario games then!

She does nothing. She just gets captured.

Ever played Mario RPG? Plus, you could say the same thing for Zelda with that logic.

Now Sheik does - and I use this word heavily - VASTLY more than Peach has ever done. Ever. Should Peach leave Smash games? No, she has fans.

Again, Peach has fought more than Sheik has ever done with her harp and deku nuts, so don't use her as an example.

 

[blueriku]

So basically it is like this:

Pros: (Or so you say)

Unique Moveset
Coolness

Cons:

Sheik's an outdated Zelda character.
Twilight Princess above OoT in Brawl.

Yeah those pros FAIL!

why is a con for sheik outdatedness count that is just not valid if you think about it you could say the same for ice climbers, mr. game and watch, ness, roy, marth, doc Mario and to an extent captain falcon. so if outdatedness is an issue all of these character would get the boot or at least not treated properly and as far as TP Zelda above OOT Zelda i disagree. maybe Zelda's updated design yes, but the importance of TP Zelda over OOT Zelda is ludicrous in fact TP Zelda had a less of a role than OOT Zelda which had a big role. if anything every Zelda has different role so comparing importance of one of or the other its like comparing apples to oranges it just not viable. as for her pros its valid reason to use her unique move set as a reason other reason's may be that she is a loved and memorable character and she is also fun to play with remember that it one thing looking at brawl from a competitive perspective, but remember casual games play this game to and they play for fun. im a competitive player as one could get, but we also have to think about the well-being of Zelda as a whole both from a competitive view and from a casual view.

 

[Soluble Toast]

Not true at all. They could have had stone tablets with songs written on them and that's how you learn the songs instead. Sheik added more interest.

Filler character... You might as well say Peach is a filler to Mario games then!

She does nothing. She just gets captured.

Now Sheik does - and I use this word heavily - VASTLY more than Peach has ever done. Ever. Should Peach leave Smash games? No, she has fans.

It's a CHARACTER. When you add a CHARACTER to a story that character becomes more than a simple "tool" as you people imply!! People like Peach not because of how she's designed to operate, but because of the CHARACTER. Same goes for Sheik, so shut it about the issue.

Hmm. I can see where you're coming from with this,

Peach is a staple character to the Mario Series.
Sheik is not a staple character , Zelda would fill that role , along with Link and Ganon

I say filler because the story could have progressed without her. The warp songs were not the only way to get into the temples , that was just included for gameplay purposes. Mario stories can't progress without Peach. If she's not captured, 9 times out of ten there's no story involved.

 

[vesperview]

why is a con for sheik outdatedness cont that is just not valid if you think about it you could say the same for ice climbers, mr. game and watch, ness, roy, marth, doc Mario and to an extent captain falcon. so if outdatedness is an issue all of these character would get the boot or at least not treated properly and as far as TP Zelda above OOT Zelda i disagree. maybe Zelda's updated design yes, but the importance of TP Zelda over OOT Zelda is ludicrous in fact TP Zelda had a less of a role than OOT Zelda which had s big role. if anything every Zelda has different role so comparing importance of one of or the other its like comparing apples to oranges it just not viable. as for her pros. its valid reason to use her unique move set as a reason other reason's may be that she is a loved and memorable character and she is also fun to play with remember that it one thing looking at brawl from a competitive perspective, but remember casual games play this game to and they play for fun. im a competitive player as one could get, but we also have to think about the well-being of Zelda as a whole both from a competitive view and from a casual view.

With the difference that Ice Climbers, Ness, Roy, Marth, Dr. Mario and Captain Falcon (Who had a game on the gamecube) are the leads of their games, unlike Sheik and Zelda has the same kind of role in ALL games, help you a bit, then get kidnapped by Ganondorf and it's TP Zelda the one who is in Brawl after so, your point? and NO! Moveset is not a reason.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

So? It would've made absolutely no difference.

There is a difference of CHARACTER, as I am tring desperately to point out.

Ever played Mario RPG? Plus, you could say the same thing for Zelda with that logic.

No I can't because of my point on the CHARACTER.

Again, Peach has fought more than Sheik has ever done with her harp and deku nuts, so don't use her as an example.

Sheik helped Link. If Sheik didn't help Link, the WORLD would have been destroyed. Sheik helped save the world, just like Peach. Just in a different style.

Again, it's all about the character.

 

[SiD]

No one is arguing Sheik is awesome, we're arguing that being awesome is not reason enough to return and none of you can actually counter that.

Yes, but you're still ignoring the other reasons. Let me just quote me:

Also, Vesper, you can't just say that any reason I give "isn't good enough." You don't get to decide that. And Zone is right, popularity is a pretty large factor as well, you can't deny that. So she's popular, she was in Smash before, so if Sakurai agrees that she is cool. or possibly even if he doesn't, she'll be returning. Her chances are actually pretty good.

 

[vesperview]

There is a difference of CHARACTER, as I am tring desperately to point out.

So? Teaching you a couple of tunes doesn't make her important to the game.

No I can't because of my point on the CHARACTER.

That made NO sense.

Sheik helped Link. If Sheik didn't help Link, the WORLD would have been destroyed. Sheik helped save the world, just like Peach. Just in a different style.

Again, it's all about the character.

You mean Zelda right?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Vesper, I garuntee you that everyone else on this board understands the points. Stop being an ***.

So? Teaching you a couple of tunes doesn't make her important to the game.

Maybe not, but some people just like the CHARACTER...

 

[vesperview]

Vesper, I garuntee you that everyone else on this board understands the points. Stop being an ***.

Of course you do understand the points of being cool and having a moveset, that's all you have in your favor.

and if Sakurai feels that Sheik is outdated and than the series deserves to move on, Sheik is SO gone, just like Ness.

 

[SiD]

Vesper, deal with the fact that she's popular. Deal with the fact that her being in Melee definitely ups her chances. And deal with the fact that since they have all the time they want, she almost definitely will be returning.

 

[blueriku]

With the difference that Ice Climbers, Ness, Roy, Marth, Dr. Mario and Captain Falcon (Who had a game on the gamecube) are the leads of their games, unlike Sheik and Zelda has the same kind of role in ALL games, help you a bit, then get kidnapped by Ganondorf and it's TP Zelda the one who is in Brawl after so, your point? and NO! Moveset is not a reason.

Yes TP Zelda is in, but you have to realize that its still a possibilities that ITS JUST A DESIGN meaning that she could still have whatever moves and abilities she had previously. Anther point is that Sheik had a more dominate role than Zelda had in OOT sheik actually stood out more unfortunately this was fizzled out by Zelda's importance at the end of the game yes i know OOT was not mainly sheik it was link but if anything sheik is tied with Zelda to be the secondary character. one more thing is i would like to ask you of your logic to why not count Sheik's move set as a decent reason?

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

When they implimented Game and watch into Melee, he had absolutely NOTHING going for him.

 

[vesperview]

When they implimented Game and watch into Melee, he had absolutely NOTHING going for him.

Mr. Game and Watch is Nintendo's first videogame character, Sheik is far from getting those acknowledgments.

 

[volbound1700]

I think Shiek is Zelda's down b

 

[SiD]

Well, vesper, thanks for continually ignoring me.

 

[vesperview]

Well, vesper, thanks for continually ignoring me.

I wasn't I was just about to reply to you, it's just hard to keep up... plus you're on same grounds with Kinetic.

 

[SiD]

I'm not at all, kinetic is an idiot, I'm presenting real points that you seem to shrug off.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

He ignores becasue he knows he's beat. He's just picking and choosong now if you ask me.

Ice Climbers also had nothing going for them.

Uhhhh how bout this, Sheik was the first thing that really told you ANYTHING about princess Zelda's character and her resolve.

I'm not at all, kinetic is an idiot

And when he says that, I'm CONSIDERING why he would, and it makes SENSE. Therefore, I will not argue with him about ohhh say - how an idiot can be subjective and how everyone has a right, or some other load of BS that some people enjoy swimming in.

 

[vesperview]

I'm not at all, kinetic is an idiot, I'm presenting real points that you seem to shrug off.

Look, being in Melee doesn't grant Sheik a high chance of being in Brawl, maybe if she was one of the original twelve but still that didn't keep Ness from getting replaced.

Uhhhh how bout this, Sheik was the first thing that really told you ANYTHING about princess Zelda's character and resolve.

Eh... because she IS ZELDA!

 

[Soluble Toast]

Yes TP Zelda is in, but you have to realize that its still a possibilities that ITS JUST A DESIGN meaning that she could still have whatever moves and abilities she had previously. Anther point is that Sheik had a more dominate role than Zelda had in OOT sheik actually stood out more unfortunately this was fizzled out by Zelda's importance at the end of the game yes i know OOT was not mainly sheik it was link but if anything sheik is tied with Zelda to be the secondary character. one more thing is i would like to ask you of your logic to why not count Sheik's move set as a decent reason?

Sheik's importance is minimal compared to Zelda. This is hard to debate , since they're the same person , but meh xD

Sheik taught you songs that were simply for gameplay purposes and saved Link walking. That's a nifty little trick , hardly pushing the storyline along though , right?
She did little things to push the story along though , like saving Ruto from the ice etc.


Zelda however, set you off on your quest , and helped you eventually finish the quest. Zelda , Link and Ganon are all definitive characters within OOT.. Without Zelda , Link would have no idea what to do. I can't think of anything Sheik did to make her definitive in any way

 

[SiD]

Kinetic, you're arguing a moot point. Storyline wise, Shiek is unimportant. Luckily, storyline doesn't matter AT ALL in Smash. THe fact that she's popular, and implementing a returning character would be tremendously easy for a whole team of game developers, is all that matters.

 

[vesperview]

Kinetic, you're arguing a moot point. Storyline wise, Shiek is unimportant. Luckily, storyline doesn't matter AT ALL in Smash. THe fact that she's popular, and implementing a returning character would be tremendously easy for a whole team of game developers, is all that matters.

But answer me this, what's the point of doing that with an outdated minor character of the series?

 

[SiD]

Look, being in Melee doesn't grant Sheik a high chance of being in Brawl, maybe if she was one of the original twelve but still that didn't keep Ness from getting replaced.



Eh... because she IS ZELDA!

Vesper, being in Melee and not being a clone absolutely does give her a high chance of returning. Ness got replaced by someone who has the same moves. There isn't a Zelda character that could do that for Shiek.

 

[blueriku]

Sheik's importance is minimal compared to Zelda. This is hard to debate , since they're the same person , but meh xD

Sheik taught you songs that were simply for gameplay purposes and saved Link walking. That's a nifty little trick , hardly pushing the storyline along though , right?
She did little things to push the story along though , like saving Ruto from the ice etc.


Zelda however, set you off on your quest , and helped you eventually finish the quest. Zelda , Link and Ganon are all definitive characters within OOT.. Without Zelda , Link would have no idea what to do. I can't think of anything Sheik did to make her definitive in any way

yes ill admit i do agree with you.

 

[SiD]

But answer me this, what's the point of doing that with an outdated minor character of the series?

...because it would be easy, and because she's popular. What don't you understand about that?

 

[vesperview]

Vesper, being in Melee and not being a clone absolutely does give her a high chance of returning. Ness got replaced by someone who has the same moves. There isn't a Zelda character that could do that for Shiek.

True, but they could easily give Sheik's moves to another character whether or not it comes from the same series, why? because those moves are not Sheik exclusive, cause she never did that in OoT!

...because it would be easy, and because she's popular. What don't you understand about that?

Characters don't get the boot because they lack popularity... they are just irrelevant to be kept in the game, when the series is clearly moving on from those stages, example, Ness and Sheik, they hold no importance to the current state of their series but are popular.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Kinetic, you're arguing a moot point. Storyline wise, Shiek is unimportant.

I agree with this to a degree. What I'm saying is that the character adds more interest, and people like the character. Not her importance.

Sheik was important to the story, just not in a way you would expect in games now days. It's older afterall - and most games in that day were similar.

There is barely story as it is in Zelda games which is why it may seem so increadibly insignificant nowdays. Zelda stories have always been simple, neat, and to the point. THere was no need for HUGE character revelations and big roles otherwize it's stops being Zelda and becomes MGS. The fact that Sheik stayed out of the way and didn't interfere with you to a great degree is ZELDA FORMULA. Gameplay over story, that's all it is.

TP was the first Zelda that really had anything of a story if you ask me. And when I say story in this post I refer to story-telling and methods, of course, as the ACTUAL legend of Zelda and timeline kicks ***, and makes me feel warm inside.

Sheik was intentionally not supposed to be that huge of a factor, but you can NOT say she was totally unimportant and served no purpose. She did what needed to be done, and she added a new character we've never seen/considered, and helped add to that great OoT experience.

I remember playing this game as a lad of 11 (ish) and thinking "Woah who IS this Sheik" and when I realized it was Zelda I remember I was so shocked and pleased. I though (no lie) "That's "PERFECT"... it made total sense. If you're playing the game and picking out every machanic and criticizing every action, then don't bother, you're ruining the magic. Sheik is to me, quite magical indeed.

I believe in my heart, that Sakurai understands this.

 

[SiD]

True, but they could easily give Sheik's moves to another character whether or not it comes from the same series, why? because those moves are not Sheik exclusive, cause she never did that in OoT!

But we have no reason to believe Sakurai is willing to do that. We could speculate all day, but from what we've seen that won't happen. So therefore, that possiblity doesn't affect her chances.

 

[vesperview]

I agree with this. What I'm saying is that the character adds more interest, and people like the character. Not her importance.

How is that even relevant?

SiD I'll quote this in case you missed it:

Characters don't get the boot because they lack popularity... they are just irrelevant to be kept in the game, when the series is clearly moving on from those stages, example, Ness and Sheik, they hold no importance to the current state of their series but are popular.

 

[blueriku]

But answer me this, what's the point of doing that with an outdated minor character of the series?

Ok seriously outdatedness is not a reason that is just some lame excuse you came up with because their are more than one character that will appear on brawl that has not came out with a game in a long time such as pit but he is in since a lot of people requested him for melee and for brawl so that reason is just seriously lame.

 

[vesperview]

Ok seriously outdatedness is not a reason that is just some lame excuse you came up with because their are more than one character that will appear on brawl that has not came out with a game in a long time such as pit but he is in since a lot of people requested him for melee and for brawl so that reason is just seriously lame.

Stop using retro leading characters to back up your Sheik arguments please, it's pointless.

 

[SiD]

How is that even relevant?

SiD I'll quote this in case you missed it:

But again, Ness only got the boot because he got replace by a newer character in his series. That can't happen for Shiek.