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Why Sheik will Return
- Thread starter dtp882
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vesperview
Smash Hero
SiD
Smash Master
She shouldn't, wtf? She's also popular. What else do you need? Is Luigi relevant in any recent Mario games? No. But he's **** popular. Should he get the boot?
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
OK how is that pointless their outdated too, until you give me a good reason not to use those characters then ill still use them but u have yet to supply a good reason.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Luigi has two games starring him and
he is playable in Galaxy
Sheik isn't retro, Sheik isn't the lead in her games, Sheik's popularity before Melee doesn't even match the popularity those characters had when they weren't outdated.
This is getting really boring. Do you guys usually have an evening bicker?
1)Peach has her own game (which is recent by the way).
2) Peach has a starring role in several games (Legend of the 7 Stars)
3) Peach is in several stupid sports titles (I don't need an example)
Where is Sheik? Waaaaay back there in OoT as a plot device.
And Ice Climbers and Game and Watch have that stupid oddball factor that Sakurai likes so much going for them. I'm personally not fond of either but whatevs.
Edit: Eerr Luigi's playable in Galaxy? Sweet. Is Yoshi? >_>
...Yeah? She usually is actually. Peach is usually a plot device. A reason for Mario to win the game.
That's usually right.
And you're wrong. And I don't know how you came to this conclusion.
1)Peach has her own game (which is recent by the way).
2) Peach has a starring role in several games (Legend of the 7 Stars)
3) Peach is in several stupid sports titles (I don't need an example)
Where is Sheik? Waaaaay back there in OoT as a plot device.
And Ice Climbers and Game and Watch have that stupid oddball factor that Sakurai likes so much going for them. I'm personally not fond of either but whatevs.
Edit: Eerr Luigi's playable in Galaxy? Sweet. Is Yoshi? >_>
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
sheik is a 9 year old character she would at least qualify as a older character and yes you cant measure her popularity to others, but she is still popular and is still a favorite among Zelda fans and smash fans alike sure she isnt hardcore popular but is still a good character and correcter me if im wrong, but i think you just compared sheiks popularity to outdated characters popularity in their prime am i correct? well that does not matter what matters is overall popularity such as ice climber most people didn't even know who they were but they got on brawl same for the fire emblem character only people that were Fe fans hardcore knew who they where
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
Why do you people have to look at characters as "plot device". Do you guys enjoy having fun when you play a game? I personally try to ignore the small details and just immerse myself. What? Link just pulled a giant metal BALL AND CHAIN from his tunic, and it's twice his size?? Whatever, I'm just here to have some fun. That's my philosophy.
Sorry if anyone has already read this, but this seems like something you all should consider:
What I'm saying is that the character adds more interest, and people like the character. Not her importance.
Sheik was important to the story, just not in a way you would expect in games now days. It's older afterall - and most games in that day were similar.
There is barely story as it is in Zelda games which is why it may seem so increadibly insignificant nowdays. Zelda stories have always been simple, neat, and to the point. THere was no need for HUGE character revelations and big roles otherwize it's stops being Zelda and becomes MGS. The fact that Sheik stayed out of the way and didn't interfere with you to a great degree is ZELDA FORMULA. Gameplay over story, that's all it is.
TP was the first Zelda that really had anything of a story if you ask me. And when I say story in this post I refer to story-telling and methods, of course, as the ACTUAL legend of Zelda and timeline kicks ***, and makes me feel warm inside.
Sheik was intentionally not supposed to be that huge of a factor, but you can NOT say she was totally unimportant and served no purpose. She did what needed to be done, and she added a new character we've never seen/considered, and helped add to that great OoT experience.
I remember playing this game as a lad of 11 (ish) and thinking "Woah who IS this Sheik" and when I realized it was Zelda I remember I was so shocked and pleased. I though (no lie) "That's "PERFECT"... it made total sense. If you're playing the game and picking out every machanic and criticizing every action, then don't bother, you're ruining the magic. Sheik is to me, quite magical indeed.
I believe in my heart, that Sakurai understands this.
Sorry if anyone has already read this, but this seems like something you all should consider:
What I'm saying is that the character adds more interest, and people like the character. Not her importance.
Sheik was important to the story, just not in a way you would expect in games now days. It's older afterall - and most games in that day were similar.
There is barely story as it is in Zelda games which is why it may seem so increadibly insignificant nowdays. Zelda stories have always been simple, neat, and to the point. THere was no need for HUGE character revelations and big roles otherwize it's stops being Zelda and becomes MGS. The fact that Sheik stayed out of the way and didn't interfere with you to a great degree is ZELDA FORMULA. Gameplay over story, that's all it is.
TP was the first Zelda that really had anything of a story if you ask me. And when I say story in this post I refer to story-telling and methods, of course, as the ACTUAL legend of Zelda and timeline kicks ***, and makes me feel warm inside.
Sheik was intentionally not supposed to be that huge of a factor, but you can NOT say she was totally unimportant and served no purpose. She did what needed to be done, and she added a new character we've never seen/considered, and helped add to that great OoT experience.
I remember playing this game as a lad of 11 (ish) and thinking "Woah who IS this Sheik" and when I realized it was Zelda I remember I was so shocked and pleased. I though (no lie) "That's "PERFECT"... it made total sense. If you're playing the game and picking out every machanic and criticizing every action, then don't bother, you're ruining the magic. Sheik is to me, quite magical indeed.
I believe in my heart, that Sakurai understands this.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Oh God! Now you are saying Sheik is retro because she is 9 years old? and you're the one bringing up those examples I'm just clarifying to you, that Sheik has never been as popular as Pit and she will never be.
What part in "That doesn't make her important to the game" you don't understand?
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
I had no idea who Pit was, along with all of the people I know, until Brawl was announced.
Who says it has to be their own series? Ness's moves were a little more staple to Mother than Sheik's completely made up moveset was to LoZ.
I hate that people think there's unlimited slots for playable characters. Be realistic, people. Designing a spot for every character in adventure mode, making tons and tons of unique moveset, and all the other crap that has to be done to to actually customize a character isn't a 20 minute process. A pushed back deadline and promise of more characters doesn't mean "Oh, they'll add every single one they want and it'll all be great." It doesn't work like that and they can't just add anyone because they or fans want to.
I hate that people think there's unlimited slots for playable characters. Be realistic, people. Designing a spot for every character in adventure mode, making tons and tons of unique moveset, and all the other crap that has to be done to to actually customize a character isn't a 20 minute process. A pushed back deadline and promise of more characters doesn't mean "Oh, they'll add every single one they want and it'll all be great." It doesn't work like that and they can't just add anyone because they or fans want to.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Maybe you lack videogame knowledge then?
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
One name:
Dedede.
I'm not going to deny it. Just pointing it out, though.
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
DUDE!! now your just taking things out of proportion i never said or implied that sheik is retro i merely stated that she had a little bit of years behind her you just compared sheik to retro characters in general in just stating that in general you cant compare over all popularity with sheik since only a hand full of people that like Zelda series and people that like smash like sheik.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Dedede, the main villain in the Kirby series and Sakurai's creation... how is that even an example?
Stop driving this argument to fit your standards, you're just setting traps in your posts, now I'm the one comparing Sheik to retro characters? God, you're the one who started, don't put it on me now, you can't compare Sheik to a retro character cause she isn't retro, PERIOD!
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
The point Vesper, is that popularity and fanism plays a role in character inclusion.
You don't think Dedede deserved to be in? He basically completes the Kirby triforce.
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
Yeah, but what if only one person in the world liked Dedede? I don't think he'd be in then. Let's not forget that this is the only way game companies look at anything - popularity, sales.
SiD
Smash Master
Vesper, you're obviously just biased completely against Shiek. Because everytime I argue with you, you either say "That's not a good enough reason" or you take me in some bull **** loop back around so you can say "I still don't see how a moveset means she should return...".
So good day, I'll beat you online with Shiek when Brawl comes out.
(Don't misconstrue this, I might/probably will come back to this thread, just right now I'm leaving for a little while.)
So good day, I'll beat you online with Shiek when Brawl comes out.
(Don't misconstrue this, I might/probably will come back to this thread, just right now I'm leaving for a little while.)
vesperview
Smash Hero
But since that isn't the case, then that's pointless to say.
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
I have to agree with SiD. Seriously.
I'm personally not denying that popularity doesn't have a factor. But I don't know if Sheik is popular enough to compensate for the other missing criteria.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Of course I'm biased against Sheik, I always felt she was irrelevant, but if I reply to you like that is because you haven't brought up a single thing other than moves and popularity, which most people would agree that holds no importance to a character's inclusion, most characters are popular, that's not a reason for them to be added.
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
dude i used retro characters as an example not compared them to one anther your the one forcing that on me your just being a jerk now.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
Basically every character in brawl is because the fans wanted them in. You can't just say Dedede, there's also Sonic, PT, Wario, Metaknight, Diddy. Even the vets are in because the fans wanted them in, Since the vets represent different games that a lot of people around the world enjoyed or still enoy now.
Most characters in brawl are popular, unless if Sakurai is trying to bring back character from retro games Like Pit and Ice Climbers.
vesperview
Smash Hero
No, I'm not... seriously, why bring them up in the first place if you aren't comparing them? It makes no sense.
kin3tic-c4jun-3
Smash Ace
I actually agree wit this.
I think that's partly true. Obviously millions of people were like "Sonic!" but then there are characters like Game and Watch and Ice Climbers who I'm sure were just there because of Sakurai.
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
comparing and comparing in examples is different and apparently you got that confused when i started to use retro character as an example in my argument
vesperview
Smash Hero
Maybe, but they still hold no place in this discussion.
Hmm, a recurring main character in Kirby games to accompany a franchise with only one rep or a one-time character from last century which only played a supporting role in the game she was in to accompany a franchise with 3 reps already and a load of newer possible reps.
Sheik really didn't do anything. She wasn't a main character like Zelda because she wasn't actually the developed side of her. If Sheik were a true personality then perhaps she'd be the one being developed, like Tetra was when she discovered she was Zelda. But she wasn't, she was an alter-ego with no personality or individuality. She was simply Zelda in disguise and the disguise only allowed the enablement of Link and Zelda's character development. Sheik was not main, she was supporting, like Ruto or Saria. That alone is reason to detach her from a more independent Zelda and not guarantee her a spot on a roster full of stars.
Sheik really didn't do anything. She wasn't a main character like Zelda because she wasn't actually the developed side of her. If Sheik were a true personality then perhaps she'd be the one being developed, like Tetra was when she discovered she was Zelda. But she wasn't, she was an alter-ego with no personality or individuality. She was simply Zelda in disguise and the disguise only allowed the enablement of Link and Zelda's character development. Sheik was not main, she was supporting, like Ruto or Saria. That alone is reason to detach her from a more independent Zelda and not guarantee her a spot on a roster full of stars.
Your Hero
Smash Champion
I like Sheik, I use her at random times whenever I play brawl, just not as much (I basically use CFalc and DrMario lol) and IMO it doesn't matter. I've said this countless times already "Give Sheiks moves to a babe and it's win-win" Sakuria could add Sheiks moves to a character that fans want in that's more popular than sheik.
vesperview
Smash Hero
You couldn't have said it best!
vesperview
Smash Hero
Vaati, Midna, even WW Link is more important than Sheik.
blueriku
Smash Journeyman
how so? if they hold no place neither does your discussion since your "biased" against sheik this mean your argument for a stand point only comes from a view of a person that dislikes sheik therefore he some new logic that might help you how about sheik becomes playable and you just don't use her its that simple. HAPPY?
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