Why Sheik will Return

[vesperview]

Yes, she does. You pretty much are refusing to listen to them.

I'm not taking fan made arguments to support Midna unlike you.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

No it doesn't, but it does mean they recognize OoT. How does Midna's role in TP mean she should be in Brawl?

 

[vesperview]

No it doesn't, but it does mean they recognize OoT. How does Midna's role in TP mean she should be in Brawl?

Cause as I said, everything is getting updated with Twilight Princess in Brawl, to Link and Zelda's look, to Link's weaponry, to a stage, is almost naive to think the TWILIGHT PRINCESS won't be in Brawl.

 

[SiD]

Fan made arguments? What the hell does that even mean? Dude, you're wrong. I've given plenty of good arguments why sheik should return, the people in this thread can vouch for that. So don't concescend to me because you can't look past your own love for Midna and see that Shiek's chances have nothing to do with hers.

 

[vesperview]

Fan made arguments? What the hell does that even mean? Dude, you're wrong. I've given plenty of good arguments why sheik should return, the people in this thread can vouch for that. So don't concescend to me because you can't look past your own love for Midna and see that Shiek's chances have nothing to do with hers.

Sheik was in Melee is not a good argument, neither saying she is a shoein cause they won't go through that much trouble creating a moveset for a new character.

 

[SiD]

Sheik was in Melee is not a good argument.

It's part of a good argument, you act like what I've said in the past 10 minutes is all I've said in this thread at all. Do some looking around next time.

 

[vesperview]

It's part of a good argument, you act like what I've said in the past 10 minutes is all I've said in this thread at all. Do some looking around next time.

I'm only taking into consideration what you are saying since I've been here, I won't browse 25 pages to get the gist of your reasoning.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

It doesn't mean Sheik will not return, why should it? Continuity? We all know how valid that is in Smash.

 

[vesperview]

It doesn't mean Sheik will not return, why should it?

It certainly doesn't mean she has good chances either.

 

[SiD]

You seem hell bent on accusing me of making stupid arguments, yet you refuse to actually look at the ones I've made.

Dude, seriously, can we stop being so hostile? There's no reason for it.

And honestly, why can't you just admit that Shiek AND Midna can both be in?

 

[Iris]

No it doesn't, but it does mean they recognize OoT. How does Midna's role in TP mean she should be in Brawl?

Midna was a star, Sheik was a supporting cast member. OoT is out of date, TP is what's going to be acknowledged most.

Of course they recognize OoT, but I can't see them promoting the game and giving it a lot of representation when a new, $50 Zelda game on the same system is out on the market. OoT was the most current LoZ console game in the time of SSB64 and SSBM. This is different for SSBB and they've obviously taken representation of TP into account, but undoubtedly, it's far from how much we'll actually see when it's out.

Edit: Stop posting so fast, people.

 

[SiD]

Also Vesper, you act like I should be giving you chances why shiek is in. That's stupid, with a sequel we should just assume all characters return then weigh their chances of being removed. If it was about adding Shiek, you're right, she'd have very little chance. But removing her? There is very little reason to do so.

 

[Iris]

There's more reason to remove Sheik than there was to remove Ness. Just saying. :x

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

Midna was a star, Sheik was a supporting cast member. OoT is out of date, TP is what's going to be acknowledged most.

True and false. While Sheik wasn't around all the time, it's becasue she had to HIDE.

 

[Drake3]

There's more reason to remove Sheik than there was to remove Ness. Just saying. :x

Oh god, you'll restart the post-per-minute debate!! >_>;;

 

[SiD]

There's more reason to remove Sheik than there was to remove Ness. Just saying. :x

But like I said, that's different. The didn't just remove Ness, they changed him to Lucas. His B moves are all the same with minor changes. On the other hand, what Zelda character could take up Shiek's moves? None.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

And how the hell can you people go around saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for there to be an update sounding something like this:

"What's this? A Shiekah warrior!? It's Zelda in her Shiek costume from OoT!!

She dashes across the field of battle with quick moves... etc."

I (and many others) have no problem with it, why should I vesper?

 

[Drake3]

But like I said, that's different. The didn't just remove Ness, they changed him to Lucas. His B moves are all the same with minor changes. On the other hand, what Zelda character could take up Shiek's moves? None.

But his A moves and grabs changed.

 

[SiD]

But his A moves and grabs changed.

Yes, but personality wise, A moves aren't that important.

 

[vesperview]

This is the last thing I'm gonna say in this thread, cause by the title you would think the first post would contain amazing reasoning and facts as to why Sheik should return, truth is, Sheik's fans have no good reason to keep her.

Sheik was a supporting character in OoT, which I recall happened in 1998, she just appeared to teach Link some tunes, she is a minor character in terms of Zelda games, even Skull Kid being a puppet of Majora's Mask has more importance to it's own game than Sheik, Twilight Princess is taking precedence over OoT in Brawl, if Sheik wasn't a Zelda alter ego, she wouldn't have even been in Melee, there are newer Zelda characters out there, if her fanboys support her is because they are biased cause she is n00b friendly and way overpowered in Melee, there's more reasons to remove Sheik than to keep her and SiD, just because a character was in Melee, doesn't mean you can't weigh their chances to appear in the next installment, characters get removed from fighting games all the time, just in this case there are better reps to represent the series than Sheik and considering how the typical idiot only wants Link, Zelda and Ganon to represent the Zelda franchise in Brawl is ridiculous to think a 4th more recent and more important rep won't make it to the game.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

This is getting insanely chaotic, even for me.

 

[SiD]

Vesper, your arguments have been pretty much pointless from the beginning, and have obviously been driven because you think Midna can't be in if Shiek is in. Then, you go and make "one last post in this thread", a classic sign that you can't really win this argument so you just run and think we'll think you one cause you got the last post. Well, as I'm sure you're still reading this thread, you're wrong. I don't support her cause I'm biased, you think I'm biased because you are.

You have lost, and now you have two choices: Accept your defeat, or prove me right and post again. Sucks to be you.

 

[HollabackRyu]

vesper pretty much said it right, SiD ur the one who cant keep up with the argument, u lost, accept it.

 

[SiD]

vesper pretty much said it right, SiD ur the one who cant keep up with the argument, u lost, accept it.

I lost because he said "You're a fanboy so what you say doesn't matter"? You're wrong, silly nub.

 

[vesperview]

I don't understand people that think the Smash Bros. series has anything to do with continuity. It's a fighting game, story doesn't matter in the slightest in reference to each characters individual games, their movesets are made to be fun/unique, often times not having anything to do with ANY of their games. Honestly, Shiek transformation is a good, unique mechanic that just needs some balancing issues. There is no reason to remove it from a gameplay standpoint, so therefore, no reason to remove it from a Smash Bros. game.

Okay, I'll try to compile everything I've said:

I don't understand people that think the Smash Bros. series has anything to do with continuity. It's a fighting game, story doesn't matter in the slightest in reference to each characters individual games, their movesets are made to be fun/unique, often times not having anything to do with ANY of their games. Honestly, Shiek transformation is a good, unique mechanic that just needs some balancing issues. There is no reason to remove it from a gameplay standpoint, so therefore, no reason to remove it from a Smash Bros. game.

From a storyline standpoint, think about it like this. The Shiekah are supposed to be the guardians of the royal family, are they not? And in OoT, Zelda transformed into Shiek using magic. Magic she got from using the triforce of Wisdom. Given that these are both still true, and what we know about Zelda being somewhat of a reincarnation of herself just as Link is, it's not that big of a stretch for TP Zelda to transform into some form that's better fit for fighting, nor is it a strectch for that transformation to be based on the Shiekah. Since we already have Shiek, why not make her transform into Shiek.


Lastly, even if not as a transformation, Shiek deserves to return because she was in Melee, she wasn't a clone, and she has a fanbase. I can vouch for that, I am a fan of Shiek, not because of her moveset or because she's good in Melee, but because I think she is a really cool alter ego to Zelda. She was really cool and mysterious in OoT, and the way she moves and attacks in Melee are very cool looking, very smooth.

So yes, Shiek should return in one of the two ways. And yes, she more than likely will.




How was that Berkus? RDK?

Vesper, your arguments have been pretty much pointless from the beginning, and have obviously been driven because you think Midna can't be in if Shiek is in. Then, you go and make "one last post in this thread", a classic sign that you can't really win this argument so you just run and think we'll think you one cause you got the last post. Well, as I'm sure you're still reading this thread, you're wrong. I don't support her cause I'm biased, you think I'm biased because you are.

You have lost, and now you have two choices: Accept your defeat, or prove me right and post again. Sucks to be you.

Oh God, you're just taking a last breath to keep this going aren't you? if I took too long to reply is because I took my time to go back a few pages and see how amazing your reasoning behind Sheik's inclusion is, which in the end, is the same stupid "She was in Melee", "Continuity" argument, accept it, you don't have a better argument than that, there's more reason to remove Sheik than to keep her... unless you have something new or actually interesting to say about the matter consider yourself the one who lost this argument.

At least I have better reasons to support Midna than you to support Sheik, so we'll just wait and see what happens shall we?

 

[SiD]

Oh God, you're just taking a last breath to keep this going aren't you? if I took too long to reply is because I took my time to go back a few pages and see how amazing your reasoning behind Sheik's inclusion is, which in the end, is the same stupid "She was in Melee", "Continuity" argument, accept it, you don't have a better argument than that, there's more reason to remove Sheik than to keep her... unless you have something new or actually interesting to say about the matter consider yourself the one who lost this argument.

At least I have better reasons to support Midna than you to support Sheik, so we'll just wait and see what happens shall we?

Um, no, I didn't lose, because you haven't given me a single reason to remove her that I haven't argues against in those quotes.

Also, **** I'm good. I hella called you coming back.

And stop feeling like you have to defend Midna, this has nothing to do with her.

 

[Iris]

But like I said, that's different. The didn't just remove Ness, they changed him to Lucas. His B moves are all the same with minor changes. On the other hand, what Zelda character could take up Shiek's moves? None.

Why does it have to be a Zelda character? Lucas's B moves have changed slightly from Ness's, so it's unlikely that we'd be seeing a Mario character or something using Deku nuts. They'd find a way to make it original and with that, apply it to a character from a different series if they wanted.

 

[vesperview]

Um, no, I didn't lose, because you haven't given me a single reason to remove her that I haven't argues against in those quotes.

Also, **** I'm good. I hella called you coming back.

And stop feeling like you have to defend Midna, this has nothing to do with her.

I've given you enough reason for Sheik to get cut, which if you go a few posts back you'll find, you probably didn't read it though, and if I returned is because you said prove me right and post again, which I proved you wrong, now we'll just see who gets the last laugh and call this off for a day.

 

[SiD]

Why does it have to be a Zelda character? Lucas's B moves have changed slightly from Ness's, so it's unlikely that we'd be seeing a Mario character or something using Deku nuts. They'd find a way to make it original and with that, apply it to a character from a different series if they wanted.

But that's purely a what if thing with no real basis, so isn't really relevant right now.

 

[Iris]

The same can be said about Sheik reappearing with her moveset. No harm in hypothesizing.

 

[SiD]

I've given you enough reason for Sheik to get cut, which if you go a few posts back you'll find, you probably didn't read it though, and if I returned is because you said prove me right and post again, which I proved you wrong, now we'll just see who gets the last laugh and call this off for a day.

Um, no, you haven't. All you've said was "They're updating it for TP." That's it, that's the only real reason you keep giving over and over again. Which, I already argued against. So no, you didn't prove me wrong. You pretty much confirmed to me that you have no real argument.

But, you're right. This argument was fun when we could all be civil, but with you constantly attacking me and that kin3tic-c4jun-3 dude being totally out of control, this is pointless. We'll just wait till Shiek gets confirmed or until we find out she isn't in, then, one of us will apologize. Sound fair?

 

[vesperview]

Um, no, you haven't. All you've said was "They're updating it for TP." That's it, that's the only real reason you keep giving over and over again. Which, I already argued against. So no, you didn't prove me wrong. You pretty much confirmed to me that you have no real argument.

That wasn't my only argument but whatever.

But, you're right. This argument was fun when we could all be civil, but with you constantly attacking me and that kin3tic-c4jun-3 dude being totally out of control, this is pointless. We'll just wait till Shiek gets confirmed or until we find out she isn't in, then, one of us will apologize. Sound fair?

Yes, it does, it's all speculation right now anyway.

 

[Fawriel]

Wow, what the hell happened here?
I tried reading through all those new pages, but I couldn't get myself to carry on when people started having the gall to claim that Sheik is more deserving than Midna. That's just... wrong. Especially when your reasoning is "ninjas is cool".

Anyone consider the idea that Zelda could still "transform"/get a different moveset by taking out her rapier? Her movement wouldn't change, but all of the hitboxes of Sheik's moves could be replaced by rapier-swinging. Hell, they could give Zelda two rapiers! Squee!

 

[SiD]

Good point Fawriel.

You know what? Let's just give everyone a sword!

 

[Fawriel]

I see what you did there. ;o
Well, it would appease the transforming fans, those who don't like the idea of losing a moveset, would add something from TP to her mix... Honestly, they have so much to work with now and she still seems to do everything the crappy former version did? What the hell.

 

[SiD]

Yeah, I agree, that is kinda stupid that they didn't revitalize her.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

The fact that Shiek looks cool is a good reason. How isn't it?

Some people just like certain styles of characters, some don't. Don't criticize the argument, it's valid.

I can garuntee you 99% of people like the idea of Snake being in Brawl than the idea of Otacon being in Brawl, simply becasue one is just "cooler". Cool means many things aside from JUST looks too BTW.

For example, I am cool. You are not.

Also, they DID go with the more stylized TP design for Link/Zelda didn't they? If 'coolness' didn't matter why didn't they keep the tighty whites huh??

 

[Fawriel]

The fact that Shiek looks cool is a good reason. How isn't it?

Some people just like certain styles of characters, some don't. Don't criticize the argument, it's valid.

I can garuntee you 99% of people like the idea of Snake being in Brawl than the idea of Otacon being in Brawl, simply becasue one is just "cooler". Cool means many things aside from JUST looks too BTW.

For example, I am cool. You are not.

Also, they DID go with the more stylized TP design for Link/Zelda didn't they? If 'coolness' didn't matter why didn't they keep the tighty whites huh??

I dare say that the underlined part ruined your argument as it clearly shows that you have no idea what coolness is about.

If you'll excuse me now, I've gotta go make snide remarks at random people whilst nonchalantly rubbing my chin.

 

[kin3tic-c4jun-3]

That was a joke. Your inability to understand the joke is what makes me that much cooler than you.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

This is the last thing I'm gonna say in this thread, cause by the title you would think the first post would contain amazing reasoning and facts as to why Sheik should return, truth is, Sheik's fans have no good reason to keep her.

Sheik was a supporting character in OoT, which I recall happened in 1998, she just appeared to teach Link some tunes, she is a minor character in terms of Zelda games, even Skull Kid being a puppet of Majora's Mask has more importance to it's own game than Sheik, Twilight Princess is taking precedence over OoT in Brawl, if Sheik wasn't a Zelda alter ego, she wouldn't have even been in Melee, there are newer Zelda characters out there, if her fanboys support her is because they are biased cause she is n00b friendly and way overpowered in Melee, there's more reasons to remove Sheik than to keep her and SiD, just because a character was in Melee, doesn't mean you can't weigh their chances to appear in the next installment, characters get removed from fighting games all the time, just in this case there are better reps to represent the series than Sheik and considering how the typical idiot only wants Link, Zelda and Ganon to represent the Zelda franchise in Brawl is ridiculous to think a 4th more recent and more important rep won't make it to the game.

But they do have facts. Being a pretty major role in one Zelda game is enough to warrant being in. Who's that blue dude with the hat that was in one Mario game that everyone is supporting and will probably get in? Oh right, GENO, who had a similar role to Sheik in the Zelda series.

the bolded points I don't agree with at all.

first bolded- If it was, why would the Zelda series get an item from oot and mm (Deku Nut) which wasn't an item in TP? Also the Tingle trophy isn't in TP style. This argument is very weak.

2nd- You have no proof of that. INFACT Sheik was shown before Zelda in one of the earlier trailors, that Zelda herself wasn't even shown in. And there are newer character? Really? Like who? Who "new" can fight besides Vaati? Tingle? Tetra? Midna? None of them are even close to being a fighter as Sheik, and Sheik has presedant of being in Melee and having no one else in her series able to "fill her moves" like Lucas/Ness.

3rd- I like Sheik not because she's good for "noobs" but because she is a unique character and still a unique concept in Brawl. No other character shown in Brawl can switch freely without any penalty. Samus can't switch on will, and PT comes with stamina. Zelda/Sheik relation is still unique to the Smash games.

4th- Again... there are? People need to understand Midna can't fight, she was no better than a parasite in TP. She would require Wolf Link, and evident from ZSS and Samus being the same character, it appears Sakurai wants to avoid putting more than one "form" of a character into the game. Tingle can't fight, by your logic Skull Kid isn't new enough and couldn't POSSIBLY be updated AT ALL the thought of updating a character from Oot. That leaves Vaati, and it Young Link AND Sheik are cut and only replaced by Vaati, that still leaves the Zelda series, a major Nintendo series, down by one character from the last game. Think about the Zelda series and how Link, Ganon, Zelda, Vaati and Tingle are probably the only reocurring characters with any real meaning in the game, and the latter really wouldn't work in Brawl.

People forget the logic behind them using TP Zelda. She ISN'T TP Zelda, she, for all we know, could just be an updated version of Oot Zelda. Brawl Zelda is merely Oot Zelda in Brawl style, and brawl style happens to be similar to TP. TP Zelda was an updated version of Oot Zelda, which brawl is also using to update oot zelda.

Seriously, the arguments against Sheik are just as weak, if not weaker than those for Sheik. Using facts like the lack of Zelda information, lack of playable Zelda, lack of Zelda updates like FS and moves and official documentation that Sheik is somewhere in Brawl, and in Brawl style.