Why MK should NOT be banned (the opinion from someone who actually fights them)

[Inui]

Ledge grab rule and no DDD infinite says hi.

Then they are in the wrong place, because I have no idea why they say hi to me.

Those rules don't cater to n00bs.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Then they are in the wrong place, because I have no idea why they say hi to me.

Those rules don't cater to n00bs.

That MK you mentioned doesnt even play brawl. Hes a melee player that participated in crews to at least let PR enter crews cause they didnt have enough ppl. You are very wrong if you think theres only a good ddd and peach here.

 

[DMG]

I remember someone arguing for Dedede's infinite to be banned...

Because it ruined Donkey Kong's already questionable viability.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Then they are in the wrong place, because I have no idea why they say hi to me.

Those rules don't cater to n00bs.

For Samus, luigi, and mario the infinite rule caters to people who can't mash out of grabs.


That definitely caters to noobs.

 

[Kaffei]

I remember someone arguing for Dedede's infinite to be banned...

Because it ruined Donkey Kong's already questionable viability.

This game seems to have a lot of stuff to ban lol.

 

[Chuee]

The rule is probably mainly for dk.

 

[Feels]

No. ROB sucks. He loses to Snake, Dedede, ICs, etc. MK being gone just removes one problem of many for this character

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't R.O.B. have the advantage/even matchup over IC's?

 

[HeroMystic]

I like how the post frequency spiked when Inui posted.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The rule is probably mainly for dk.

Why does this remind me of Inui's, "I came to a gunfight with a club, pity me" line?


Cause it's pretty much the same circumstance.


Characters have bad match-ups, it happens. Do the best that you can but avoid that MU at all costs, same as a fox should avoid pikachu and shiek, and Ganon should avoid... well everyone that's not Ganon.

 

[BSP]

D3's infinite doesn't really matter IMO. Mario, Luigi, and Samus can mash out, and besides, they probably won't show up in brackets at a large tourney anyway due to their other bad MU's, etc.

That would leave DK and Bowser, who, even with a banned infinite, have a pretty bad MU against D3 (and so do the two up there, minus luigi). Are we really going to cater to 2 semi-viable characters?

And if we banned D3's, wouldn't we have to ban Marth's too? And wouldn't we have to ban punishing wario out of an air release?

 

[Chuee]

I was just saying the rule isn't exactly a rule to cater noobs.

 

[Ripple]

if D3 didn't have his infinite Dk he would be very viable.

lets not discuss this though. this is for MK

 

[Eval]

No, you don't. You're from PR. You have a good Dedede and a good Peach there and NOTHING ELSE. I played an MK from PR in crews at Genesis and my 3 stocks beat his 5.

Someone pointed me to here.

Anyway, the MK you are talking about is a MELEE player that played in the Brawl crews because the PR crew was way too small to participate. So i signed up and used MK for the hell of it. What an achievement beating someone who doesn't play the game, LOL! Good job on falling on my Up b and down smash spam, it was hilarious.

Inui, nobody likes you and Im pretty sure you know the reason. Besides its not like you care.

This is all I wanted to say. I don't want to be involved in anything Brawl related. Bye.

 

[adumbrodeus]

My understanding is that Bowser is quite good at not getting grabbed in that MU. He's not infinited either, just small-step CG'd which is only a 0-death at certain FD locations pretty much.

I was just saying the rule isn't exactly a rule to cater noobs.

By inui's definition it seems to, and I tend to agree, but that reflects badly on the rule in question more then Inui being wrong here.

 

[Yubi]

You guys not better mess with Inui...

Messing with him means dealing with the tears that fall from his eyes after losing his first bracket match to some n00bs. This is when he's feeling less physical and more sentimental by sparing your life.

IF he's feeling "physical" and in need of Godly powers to pass his judgment upon mortals, drinking a cup or two of alcohol turns him into a Vegeta-like warrior (like the one in his avatar only dumber, uglier and without the muscles) punching everyone and blasting insults no matter the consecuences (by "consecuences" meaning, getting banned at tournaments).

You guys better choose your words carefully when addressing to him.

Inui, much love and respect amigo. Usted es mi heroe!!!

 

[MarKO X]

Then they are in the wrong place, because I have no idea why they say hi to me.

Those rules don't cater to n00bs.

DDD's rule basically says, "OMG, I can't beat DDD with *insert character that gets infinited here*. Help me TO!"
There's evidence in a tier list and in other fighting games (Melee) that shows that it doesn't matter.

Ledge grab rule basically says, "OMG, I can't beat MK when he's doing his gayest tactic! Help me TO!"
There's no hard evidence that shows that planking is an unbeatable, overcentralized tactic that can't be beaten.

inb4othercharacterscandoitto because while MK isn't the only one who can do it, he is also the one best equipped to deal with it... of course, there's no hard data that says this, but I can imply things too, right?

 

[Chuee]

lol at the Inui hate. You just mad.
@Marko: Then I guess GNES, Ally, and Meep are all noobs for not being able to get past planking/scrooging.

 

[DMG]

The criteria I have seen for banning Dedede's infinite is some of the most lenient criteria I think I have ever witnessed.

"It will improve tournament attendance."

"It will allow 1-2 somewhat viable characters to shine."

"It's gay."

Seriously, if we applied that criteria to anything in question, you could ban IC infinites, Meta Knight, maybe even Snake, air camping, tilt locks, infinite release grabs, etc.

Trust me, if you applied tougher, but still soft, criteria to Dedede's infinite grab, there's no question it would stay in the game.

"Is 1/3rd of the cast completely invalidated by this?"

Like, you could have a debate over whether DK and Bowser are truly viable and would prove this with the infinite banned, but even then that's not admitting in the first place that you don't ban things for 1-2 characters, or ban things for reasons solely like it will improve tournament attendance. This is aimed more at Inui/others than Ripple.

 

[RDK]

The criteria I have seen for banning Dedede's infinite is some of the most lenient criteria I think I have ever witnessed.

"It will improve tournament attendance."

"It will allow 1-2 somewhat viable characters to shine."

"It's gay."

Seriously, if we applied that criteria to anything in question, you could ban IC infinites, Meta Knight, maybe even Snake, air camping, tilt locks, infinite release grabs, etc.

Trust me, if you applied tougher, but still soft, criteria to Dedede's infinite grab, there's no question it would stay in the game.

"Is 1/3rd of the cast completely invalidated by this?"

This is what they're not understanding. Even if 1/3rd of the cast was completely invalidated that still doesn't overcentralize. People kill me with that line.

"BUT 5 CHARACTERS ARE INVIABLE!!11!!" Good. There are 34 others to choose from. Pick up your cursor and move it.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The criteria I have seen for banning Dedede's infinite is some of the most lenient criteria I think I have ever witnessed.

"It will improve tournament attendance."

"It will allow 1-2 somewhat viable characters to shine."

"It's gay."

Seriously, if we applied that criteria to anything in question, you could ban IC infinites, Meta Knight, maybe even Snake, air camping, tilt locks, infinite release grabs, etc.

**** that, we could ban Ganon with that criteria.

You guys not better mess with Inui...

Messing with him means dealing with the tears that fall from his eyes after losing his first bracket match to some n00bs. This is when he's feeling less physical and more sentimental by sparing your life.

IF he's feeling "physical" and in need of Godly powers to pass his judgment upon mortals, drinking a cup or two of alcohol turns him into a Vegeta-like warrior (like the one in his avatar only dumber, uglier and without the muscles) punching everyone and blasting insults no matter the consecuences (by "consecuences" meaning, getting banned at tournaments).

You guys better choose your words carefully when addressing to him.

Inui, much love and respect amigo. Usted es mi heroe!!!

Lol, epic post is epic.


Believe me I know, I was there.

 

[Ripple]

"Is 1/3rd of the cast completely invalidated by this?"

Like, you could have a debate over whether DK and Bowser are truly viable and would prove this with the infinite banned, but even then that's not admitting in the first place that you don't ban things for 1-2 characters, or ban things for reasons solely like it will improve tournament attendance. This is aimed more at Inui/others than Ripple.

I understand DMG

we'd also have to ask ourselves if the character is unviable because of DDD or just because they are low-tier/mid tier

 

[DMG]

Yeah. Like I don't think DK is bad, and I agree that he would improve slightly with the infinite removed, but it's kinda like how some places seriously considered banning Wario's super long CG (not infinite, but CG) on DK because it gave him a 65:35 or arguably worse matchup. Like after seeing that, that's when I started to think people were REALLY catering hard to this character to try and make him more viable with kinda weak criteria lol.

 

[Ripple]

Yeah. Like I don't think DK is bad, and I agree that he would improve slightly with the infinite removed, but it's kinda like how some places seriously considered banning Wario's super long CG (not infinite, but CG) on DK because it gave him a 65:35 or arguably worse matchup. Like after seeing that, that's when I started to think people were REALLY catering hard to this character to try and make him more viable with kinda weak criteria lol.

Yeah even I don't agree with that.

its just so bothersome that the second least viable character in the game is DK.

 

[BSP]

Well, it's better than being un viable at all.

 

[Overswarm]

He's viable, just only as a CP character.

If it makes you feel any better, D3 is the same way.

 

[Ripple]

Well, it's better than being un viable at all.

technicly DK by himself is completely unviable. you have to have a secondary or you'd lose every set guaranteed

 

[Kaffei]

DMG is all about gay.

 

[RDK]

DMG is all about gay.

You've added nothing to this thread in the way of content. Every post I see from you is solid uncut Tard.

 

[Eddie G]

You've added nothing to this thread in the way of content. Every post I see from you is solid uncut Tard.

And it affects you enough to insult him how?

10butthurts

 

[WindMajor]

Inui, there was NO reason at all to start flaming or trolling. This is a discussion over an internet forum, with people you don't even know, but will probably know in the future. Have some respect.

I spent a lot of time on this post, so I don't know how late it may be. There's no TL;DR.

No, you don't. You're from PR. You have a good Dedede and a good Peach there and NOTHING ELSE. I played an MK from PR in crews at Genesis and my 3 stocks beat his 5.

Are you aquainted with all the Puerto Rican smashers, and saying that only two of the many smashers here are good, or are you saying that you only know two smashers (didn't even mention names), and that based on assumption, everyone else is trash?

By the way, the MK that you played isn't even the best one in the island, since he didn't even go to Genesis. But then again, I'm sure you know that, since you've met everyone in the island, and know how they play.

EDIT:

Someone pointed me to here.

Anyway, the MK you are talking about is a MELEE player that played in the Brawl crews because the PR crew was way too small to participate. So i signed up and used MK for the hell of it. What an achievement beating someone who doesn't play the game, LOL! Good job on falling on my Up b and down smash spam, it was hilarious.

Inui, nobody likes you and Im pretty sure you know the reason. Besides its not like you care.

This is all I wanted to say. I don't want to be involved in anything Brawl related. Bye.

Epic stuff. Further proved my point.

Then 99% of you are bad. Learn more. If ADHD, Ally, ChuDat, Atomsk, Lain, Meep, etc. are taking out MKs without MK, then guess what? It's possible. It's possible even if you're the lesser player, like when Atomsk's ICs beat Anti's MK twice and ADHD scores wins on Mew2King. You need more high-level experience.

Where to start.... Just because 99% of us aren't as good as Ally, doesn't mean that we're all bad. It just means that we aren't the best, which is completely natural because we can't all be the best.

Now, if you've read more of the posts here, then you would've known that a lot of the pro-banners agree that he's beatable. Not only that, but that he's NOT BROKEN. I am a pro-banner, and I understand that he is beatable. I've seen it, and I think we all have seen it. I also understand that he's not broken. This is not the argument anymore.

The argument is that MK has negatively impacted the community. It's impacted us so much, that we fear that the game will slowly die because of him. We all know that MK is part of the problem, because if he wasn't, we wouldn't even be considering a ban for him. The existence of this thread, along with many similar threads are proof that he's impacted the Brawl community in a negative way.

Second, how do we know for sure that he will kill Brawl? We don't know for sure, because we can't see into the future, but then again, nor can the anti-bans. From what we predict, he will kill of Brawl in the following ways:

1.Metaknight's Gay Playstyle: Before I begin, I MUST have you understand this: Playing gay DOES NOT MEAN that he is broken/unbeatable. It just means that he plays.... really gay.

How does he play gay? Well, simply put, he's arguably the best planker, scrooger, and camper in the game. He's the best abuser of the game's defensive tactics, and the clear best character in the game. He is the pinnacle of most smasher's frustrations.

By now, the anti-bans would have already told me to just learn the matchup and get over it, just like YOU did! Well, I will, and this is how I plan on doing so:

I play Toon Link, and I love that character to death. Now, the matchup for Toon Link is 40:60 (arguably 35:65 in favor of MK). Let's say that I'm the best TL in the universe (which is far from the truth), and I'm going against M2K, who is the best MK in the universe. We both have learned anything and everything that we need to know about the matchup, and even though it took me a million years, I eventually learned it, and now, we are finally going to brawl. M2K has a better chance of winning against me because he's using a better character.

Stop right there. I didn't say that I couldn't win, I just said that he has better chances. BUT WHAT IF I WANTED EVEN BETTER CHANCES OF WINNING? I could just pick up MK, put the same amount of effort, and make the matchup 50:50. This would be the best solution for me to beat MK, since winning a 50:50 matchup is a lot more reliable than trying to win a disadvantaged matchup. A lot of people will do this, AND HAVE DONE THIS. They pick up MK so that they could have better chances of winning. But what happens if everyone does this?

MK would dominate the game.

Back in 2009, during the last MK ban poll, I was told by the anti-bans that we shouldn't ban MK because the metagame is still evolving. What do you guys have in mind when you guys say that? Will there be a new mysterious AT that will defeat MK? Who is to say that MK won't be able to learn this technique? Will the entire cast except for Metaknight learn a character-specific AT that could destroy MK? How do we know that they are coming, or that they're even there? The argument is loosely saying that we have faith that something will come, and it will defeat Metaknight (If this isn't what you guys mean, then please tell me what you guys have in mind. I would love to read it).

The way I see it (in other words, IMO), the future metagame will just revolve around Metaknight, since he's clearly the best choice for a secondary character, or a main for that matter. Instead of finding ways around MK using different characters, more people will probably just pick MK to make the matchup even. If this were to truly happen, MK would eventually be banned, since he would over-centralize Brawl. Not only that, but people would eventually quit Brawl, for whatever scrubby/non-scrubby reason, which would lower our attendance, and pretty much kill Brawl. This leads me to my last argument.

There is evidence of a slow decline in tournament attendance, as well as an MK dominance. Someone made a graph based on Ankoku's thread, and like someone above me said, it showed a steady decline, with the exception of one short spike. In that same thread, we can see that the #1 used character in the game is Metaknight. I don't know what your definition of dominance is, but the one I'm using is that he is used more than any other character. I can't see into the future, so I can't argue with facts that MK's dominance will continue to grow, but I can honestly say that if it does, I wouldn't be surprised.

This is supposed to be a point by point analysis, but I guess I got a little carried away.

KOS-MOS is from bumble**** Oklahoma and he got amazing at both Melee and Brawl by manning up and traveling. That's what you have to do if you live in a garbage area. Deal with it.

I don't have to man up in order to travel. What fantasy world are you living in?! People live in different places, and have their own personal issues, situations, and priorities that they need to attend to. If you want me to be less of a scrub and learn the matchups better, then how about YOU PAY MY TRAVELS?! C'mon Inui, MAN UP FOR ME.

 

[Inui]

Oh no, the tiny island territory is after me!

That MK you mentioned doesnt even play brawl. Hes a melee player that participated in crews to at least let PR enter crews cause they didnt have enough ppl. You are very wrong if you think theres only a good ddd and peach here.

Well, they are the only ones that travel and prove anything. Oh, and that HDL guy is the best Link ever. I don't know or care about anyone else because nobody else is a viable player to me. Why? They don't come here and play us.

Please correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't R.O.B. have the advantage/even matchup over IC's?

Why would he? One grab = death > ROB.

Someone pointed me to here.

Anyway, the MK you are talking about is a MELEE player that played in the Brawl crews because the PR crew was way too small to participate. So i signed up and used MK for the hell of it. What an achievement beating someone who doesn't play the game, LOL! Good job on falling on my Up b and down smash spam, it was hilarious.

Inui, nobody likes you and Im pretty sure you know the reason. Besides its not like you care.

This is all I wanted to say. I don't want to be involved in anything Brawl related. Bye.

I fell for your stuff? Huh? It was 5 stocks to 3 and I won pretty cleanly. Even if you're a Melee player, that's a pretty huge advantage you had, especially since it's Brawl and I was aggressive. =/

Messing with him means dealing with the tears that fall from his eyes after losing his first bracket match to some n00bs.

I can't cry. I honestly have had many horrible things happen to me in the last year, yet I could not cry despite feeling as sad as I've ever felt. Oh well.

I only lose to top players that are at or near the highest levels of play.

IF he's feeling "physical" and in need of Godly powers to pass his judgment upon mortals, drinking a cup or two of alcohol turns him into a Vegeta-like warrior (like the one in his avatar only dumber, uglier and without the muscles) punching everyone and blasting insults no matter the consecuences (by "consecuences" meaning, getting banned at tournaments).

You guys better choose your words carefully when addressing to him.

Inui, much love and respect amigo. Usted es mi heroe!!!

I'm pretty sure it was almost an entire liter of Captain Morgan in ~15 minutes with no chasers.

lol at the Inui hate. You just mad.

Indeed.

Edit @ Flan: Good post, I guess. I don't care enough to argue much anymore, but you're right that I could have been nicer. If a social or economic situation limits you from traveling to get better...then...oh well. Rules, like banning MK, shouldn't be put in place to make it easier for you. Get a job and save up or something like that, and you could make it to some national tournament and show us what you're made up, like Ling Ling, Excel Zero, and HDL have.

Oh, and you play Toon Link. Come fight me or Dojo.

 

[WindMajor]

Oh no, the tiny island territory is after me!
Well, they are the only ones that travel and prove anything. Oh, and that HDL guy is the best Link ever. I don't know or care about anyone else because nobody else is a viable player to me. Why? They don't come here and play us.

Who are you to determine who is a good player and who is not?

Was HDL a bad player before Pound 4? No. But more to the first example.

What if Puerto Rico had an MK as good as M2K and we all practiced with him. Does that make our practice "not good enough" since YOU don't know how good he is?

Edit: I'm glad you didn't flame back at me, and took my post constructively. Just don't reply to arguments with flames or taunts. It doesn't make your argument any more/less valid.

 

[slikvik]

adhd is right. we should ban diddy instead

 

[•Col•]

Why would he? One grab = death > ROB.

ROB has an advantage over the Ice Climbers.... <_<

 

[MarKO X]

Why would he? One grab = death > ROB.

With that logic, one grab = death > entire cast, and thus everyone looses to IC.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Inui logic at its finest.

 

[Kaffei]

You've added nothing to this thread in the way of content. Every post I see from you is solid uncut Tard.

And you insulting me does what, exactly? Get back on topic since you are so all knowing.

 

[Chuee]

Inui logic at its finest.

you still mad

 

[stingers]

lol @ inui...nuff said

ROB beats the Climbers, I'd wager to say one of the only characters that legitimately counters them.

 

[Yubi]

I've just finished watching an episode of the soap opera "My Dear Love"...

I cried...

I'm just too weak... I couldn't help it...