Why isn't Brawl+ the competitive standard?

[UltiMario]

Well as Ecks obviously corrected me on it, I'd say that it happened.

 

[Ecks]

http://kotaku.com/5585802/nintendo-doesnt-want-to-criminalize-obsessed-fans

"it would not be appropriate if we treated people who did something based on affection for Nintendo, as criminals."

"We think one of the criteria for deciding how to respond is whether the expression in question socially diminishes the dignity or value of our intellectual properties or not."

If Nintendo sees something as harmful to their IP in anyway they'll take action. Turning Brawl into Melee? No problem. Turning Brawl into Mortal Kombat (or something way beyond what a Nintendo character should be doing)? Good luck with that.

As for when I said Nintendo viewed it as fan art, I was wrong, Capcom said that.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

The one that edits copyrighted material and hosting it for money, is less illegal than ones that don't?.

Project M is non-profit. Mods are completely legal, because you need Brawl to load it. You have a serious misconception about how smash mods work.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Project M is non-profit. Mods are completely legal, because you need Brawl to load it. You have a serious misconception about how smash mods work.

Technically there are a lot of things you can do that are non profit but can still get you in trouble for doing, copying and distributing music for example. Nintendo doesn't care as much but I don't think some companies want to take that chance.

Granted this is just one issue I see with using mods for a set standard.

 

[Crispy4001]

Is there even a Brawl mod distribution out there that includes music?

The point is moot anyhow, since they can just as easily be removed from the distro to make it more legit. As if you can't already find the 'offending' music on Youtube, which practically makes its business off that sort of thing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It was an example.

 

[Crispy4001]

An example of something that isn't applicable.

 

[Radian]

Why do people still think you need to hack your wii in order to play a Smash mod? I figured the general message was put out there enough.

I love smash but I can't bring myself to take brawl seriously at all with its many, irritating faults that just make the game just plain unfun on a competitive level. Meta Knight is just half the problem.

I will post only once. Brawl+ is unfinised. Why play an unfinished game competitively?

Then why are people playing Brawl and Marvel 3?

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

^This is a lot more true than you think it is even though you're joking.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

An example of something that isn't applicable.

It's very applicable when copyright can be an issue.

 

[Strong Badam]

It isn't an issue because Nintendo won't take action.

 

[Crispy4001]

It's very applicable when copyright can be an issue.

By not including copyrighted music, a mod doesn't infringe on copyrighted music.

Modders can refrain from distributing said music in their mods, as most of the Brawl 'codesets' already do. So no, your example is not applicable in the slightest. Not. At. All.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It isn't an issue because Nintendo won't take action.

Good luck getting a company like MLG to think like that.

By not including copyrighted music, a mod doesn't infringe on copyrighted music.

Modders can refrain from distributing said music in their mods, as most of the Brawl 'codesets' already do. So no, your example is not applicable in the slightest. Not. At. All.

Do you think I'm talking about Music being the issue and not a comparison?

I'm talking about hacking and some issues that come from it related to copyright laws that are similar to copyright laws of music. You should read what I post dude.

 

[El Duderino]

Relax man, it is only an issue if the mod http://kotaku.com/5585802/nintendo-doesnt-want-to-criminalize-obsessed-fans in question socially diminishes the dignity or value of their IP, according to Nintendo. Project M is doing the exact opposite.

When you get down to brass tacks, Brawl's scene is much smaller than Melee's was at this time in its life. Not that there are less people playing it or talking about it, just less of a dedicated community pushing the core game. Brawl+ never made it because it did not set out to make the game many competitive players hoped Brawl would be. Project M, on the other hand, stands a better chance.


Normal Brawl's future as the sole standard depends more on its own legs than anything else. Ultimately the type of players that this topic concerns will play which version they want to play. At that point, if the community can support both, it will. Also who cares if MLG recognizes it, all that really matters is we do.

 

[popsofctown]

While I'm not very well versed in copyright laws,

Then why are you stubbornly disagreeing with so many other posters?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Relax man, it is only an issue if the mod http://kotaku.com/5585802/nintendo-doesnt-want-to-criminalize-obsessed-fans in question socially diminishes the dignity or value of their IP, according to Nintendo. Project M is doing the exact opposite.

When you get down to brass tacks, Brawl's scene is much smaller than Melee's was at this time in its life. Not that there are less people playing it or talking about it, just less of a dedicated community pushing the core game. Brawl+ never made it because it did not set out to make the game many competitive players hoped Brawl would be. Project M, on the other hand, stands a better chance.


Normal Brawl's future as the sole standard depends more on its own legs than anything else. Ultimately the type of players that this topic concerns will play which version they want to play. At that point, if the community can support both, it will. Also who cares if MLG recognizes it, all that really matters is we do.

While it's not bad they are doing it, getting picked is a goal of our community and pushing a hack as the main attraction or set standard is not gonna work too well. People can play what they want, that is true. There are issues, even if Nintendo is question don't have a problem. The people who might want to make Smash of any sort apart of their curcuit might.

While we don't need MLG, we still would want their support one way or another. Getting Alex Strife to have APEX host Project M as a bigger thing than Brawl is probably not gonna happen because of what a larger part of the community wants and where people are more willing to put their money into playing.

Then why are you stubbornly disagreeing with so many other posters?

Because I am pointing out the issues that can come up.

 

[Ussi]

The community is unwilling to ban MK

Ya think they are going to be willing to change to a brawl mod?

"omg i have to practice to be good now"

/brawlcommunitydoesn'tchange

 

[DaBeast]

I personally think brawl- is more balanced as anyone can win. I'm not trying to troll btw.

 

[Steam]

I personally think brawl- is more balanced as anyone can win. I'm not trying to troll btw.

when people start taking a game like that seriously it becomes 100-0 matchups across the board once the metagame starts to develop.

besides it's like... melee's 0 deaths with brawl's difficulty.

 

[Strong Badam]

Good luck getting a company like MLG to think like that.

Melee has been fine for over 4 years without a huge company backing it. next?

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

when people start taking a game like that seriously it becomes 100-0 matchups across the board once the metagame starts to develop.

besides it's like... melee's 0 deaths with brawl's difficulty.

No, it's actually kind of balanced like BBrawl. Difficulty wise it's about right on with Smash 64.

 

[El Duderino]

While we don't need MLG, we still would want their support one way or another.

Not that it matters anyways but MLG dropped Brawl, one of the reasons being unsteady attendance figures. It all goes back to the point I was making earlier, Brawl doesn't have the numbers Melee had at this point in it's life, which in comparison was picked up by EVO.

What is standard or not doesn't really matter if the scene is loosing traction. Project M, if anything is an opportunity to re-ignite interest in the game. You could argue that the barrier of entry is too big as a mod, but I'm an optimist and want to see Brawl and the Smash franchise stay relevant in whatever way possible. I believe the idea of an Ultimate Smash Edition will be big enough to move people past the mod factor and give the game second legs. (ultimate as in potentially most polished and balanced, best is subjective).


I understand your resistance to PM becoming a standard if it is not your cup of tea, but a mod becoming a recognized standard can not come soon enough. The Standard Brawl scene has been stunted by big flaws that could have been fixed with BB. I guess the question is what is more damaging, an extra barrier of entry, or self-inflicted issues poisoning the scene like cancer.

 

[Yung Mei]

why is Brawl+ considered bad anyways?

i never really kept up with the hacking scene until Project Melee started getting more hype

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I've been wondering the same thing too, Brawl+ got me into competitive smash and now I'm a Melee player but I still don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's too easy.

 

[holyv]

only balance problem is MK. only camping problem is MK. and the game is fine on depth.

no more arguing needed.

 

[Musical Rum]

Yeah it's soley MK that drags Brawl's balance down so much. P:M is a cool project though, but you have to hate Nintendo for refusing to ever do any update :/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Melee has been fine for over 4 years without a huge company backing it. next?

So has Brawl, we would be better with it.

 

[Mr.C]

only balance problem is MK. only camping problem is MK. and the game is fine on depth.

No, lol.

So has Brawl, we would be better with it.

No major company will back Brawl, it's a terrible high-level competitive game and an even worse spectator e-sport.

 

[Steam]

then how about explaining WHY the game is imbalanced without Meta knight?

and camping "problem" depends on how you define the word problem. pretty much everything else is easily beatable.

and sure the game doesn't have melee's depth. but it's still at a generally acceptable level. and sometimes less can be more. Just look at SF's success.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

No, lol.

Around half the cast shows up at nationals in the top 16 or so in the past year, though not as frequently, even with MK. That's a lot better than MvC2, 3rd Strike, and other games.

No major company will back Brawl, it's a terrible high-level competitive game and an even worse spectator e-sport.

MLG did.

 

[nLiM8d]

It's too easy.

I wouldn't mind if you would elaborate on that point.

Games should be designed to be accessible.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Learning how to play the game and winning doesn't feel like an accomplishment.

 

[nLiM8d]

WTF, does a player have to climb mount mordor to feel accomplished?

Personally I thought that playing to win was the name of the game, however I can only speak for myself.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I just invented a new game, it's called "nLiM8d's Game", here are the rules.

Rule 1. nLiM8d automatically wins.
Rule 2. There are no other rules.

That is an exaggerated example of how Brawl+ feels to me.

 

[nLiM8d]

That's fantastic. I love to win.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then why don't you just constantly play my game and enter an eternal state of nirvana?

 

[nLiM8d]

Well since you continue to talk, it would be nice to hear some reasoning as to why you feel the way you do. I mean, I could just play the game, but its more fun to reach outside my little bubble.

......
......
......

I guess folks outside of Brawl can be stubborn too.

 

[holyv]

Just one ban, brawl changes, i'm telling you, you just don't wanna ban you-know-who because you win with him, you cheap piece of cheese

 

[UltiMario]

I don't want to ban him because while he's really damn good, he's definitely not game breaking.

Also he's my favorite character you *** I wanted to main MK since he was in the Brawl trailer "you cheap piece of cheese" (wtf?)