Why isn't Brawl+ the competitive standard?

[Steam]

No, because Project M goes WAY beyond any other mod in terms of hacking, and it's what everybody wanted from Brawl+ anyways.

It's what melee players wanted :/

I like melee more than brawl but eh, I just don't get that melee is some standard we're shooting for. it shouldn't be more than a side tourney, ever.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pretty sure there are legal reasons as well.

 

[link2702]

if the next smash gets even more dumbed down/casualfied then brawl, making hacks the competitive standard might be the only option.

 

[Le vieux lapin]

Unfortunately, I don't have high hopes for the next game.
That new system doesn't look cricket.

 

[Mr.C]

Project M is amazing and it SHOULD be the tournament standard, unfortunately, Brawl has been out for far too long so people aren't willing to change even if the game is terrible, that and it would be pretty hard to get EVERYONE to mod their consoles.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the next game. I had my hopes up high for Brawl but it was an extremely large let down for the people who played Melee professionally. If the next game doesn't take a step in the right direction (Melee) and continues down the Brawl path, the competitive community will be completely dead.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Loading Project M is a lot easier than you think.

 

[JoFTWin]

Project M is amazing and it SHOULD be the tournament standard, unfortunately, Brawl has been out for far too long so people aren't willing to change even if the game is terrible, that and it would be pretty hard to get EVERYONE to mod their consoles.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for the next game. I had my hopes up high for Brawl but it was an extremely large let down for the people who played Melee professionally. If the next game doesn't take a step in the right direction (Melee) and continues down the Brawl path, the competitive community will be completely dead.

Are all of our Melee discs just going to vanish when Smash Bros. 4 releases? Lol.

 

[Strong Badam]

You missed the point of my argument. When you hack your wii, you run the risk of it being broken and thus having to buy another Wii all over again, since Nintendo will not fix it if its hacked.

you can play Brawl+ (or any mod for that matter) without hacking your wii.

I like melee more than brawl but eh, I just don't get that melee is some standard we're shooting for. it shouldn't be more than a side tourney, ever.

because brawl sucks and melee is amazing despite its faults

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Are all of our Melee discs just going to vanish when Smash Bros. 4 releases? Lol.

Compatibility with the next console with the Melee discs will.

But seriously, my expectations for SSB4 are rock bottom now. I HOPE that they can balance the characters well since Sakurai isn't doing that anymore.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I love how people say that you can load PM with ease so it has the potential to be common-place when PAL users (LARGE amount of Smash players) still have to hack their Wiis lol.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

because brawl sucks and melee is amazing despite its faults

Wasn't it's those faults that made the game interesting? Unintended wave dashing mechanic and other things.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Glitch/exploit isn't necessarily the same thing as a fault.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I love how people say that you can load PM with ease so it has the potential to be common-place when PAL users (LARGE amount of Smash players) still have to hack their Wiis lol.

You know there does exist a port of the Stage Builder Hackless Method in PAL right?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?

Link me to it + I'm an idiot.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Standards and practices prohibit that on SWF. Sorry. Ask people in the PM chat.

Or Google it.

It was confirmed working on 4.3e BTW.

 

[Ghostbone]

No PAL version of P:M though

No real public version of P:M either lol.
But when the next demo thing does come out I don't expect a PAL release, and after the full release PAL probably won't come around for a few months.

So we do have to hack our wiis...so we can play NTSC so codes will work.

 

[JoFTWin]

Compatibility with the next console with the Melee discs will.

But seriously, my expectations for SSB4 are rock bottom now. I HOPE that they can balance the characters well since Sakurai isn't doing that anymore.

Same. I have basically no expectations for the next Smash being competitive. I think Sakurai has officially adopted the "everyone should be able to win" mindset for good. I'll still look out for it though. Who knows, he may be trying to change his approach again. Competitive or not, it should be fun, but here's to hoping.

And lastly, before I end up turning this to a Smash Bros. 4 topic. I really hope Nintendo makes a nunchuk-less classic controller option on the Wii U. What the hell were they thinking by making us hook a nunchuk up to a simple, regular controller? Smh. I just don't know about Nintendo in general these days anymore.

*Rant over* I hope Project: M has a possibility of at least getting more popular than Brawl+ did. Whether it becomes the "Standard" or not.

 

[Steam]

because brawl sucks and melee is amazing despite its faults

I get that. but what's the point of two melees? it would be better to have brawl and melee or brawl and M so you have 2 games...

 

[JoFTWin]

I get that. but what's the point of two melees? it would be better to have brawl and melee or brawl and M so you have 2 games...

Well technically Project M really isn't another Melee since it will have more characters and a few different attacks for certain characters. It's just adopting Melee physics. But I understand what you mean. If it came down to it, I wouldn't mind having Brawl and Project M. As opposed to Brawl and Melee. It'll all depend on if the community is open to it though.

 

[MechaWave]

well i play online sometimes and i've seen a couple of Warios start out as super Wario. how does that happen?

This is incredibly off-topic but people use codes to start out as "super Wario". xP

Anyways Sakurai really needs to move away from this "everyone needs to win" bull****. It's a fighting game. Besides when I was young playing Melee without knowing about L-cancel/wavedash was still fun regardless.

On-topic I support Project M coexisting with the real unmodded games. Forums, ruleset, tier lists and everything.

 

[Mr.C]

Are all of our Melee discs just going to vanish when Smash Bros. 4 releases? Lol.

It's already hard enough for the Melee community since Brawl is out, most of the professional players within the 2001-2007 era quit because of the new-era Brawl community. I know the major states in the EC/WC still have healthy Melee scenes but everywhere else? Pretty much dead.

Hardly anyone in Texas plays Melee now because it was overran by Brawl players so tournaments aren't worth traveling for anymore since the average Melee bracket consists of 10-16 players.

 

[JoFTWin]

Interesting. If that's the case. I wonder if a bigger push for Project M would be enough to re-awaken the scene. Supporting it as if it was a "Smash Bros. 4" so to speak.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Melee players don't want to see Melee replaced, however. They like it just the way it is.

Whatever the new game is, in this case vBrawl, is where the majority of the community will be centered around. Hacks are too foggy for most people.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Wasn't it's those faults that made the game interesting? Unintended wave dashing mechanic and other things.

lol people still think wavedashing was unintended

 

[Kholdstare]

Making an unofficial, cheap, and possibly illegal hack the standard is just silly.

 

[xYeti]

While hacking you're wii (at least for most of the people in this thread) is easy when you know what your doing, it can be sort of sketchy for those who don't know much about it. Just the chance of bricking your wii is frightening enough to not want to try it, no matter how little of a chance it is. It's just difficult for me to see the general ssb player going out of there way to hack their wii when they can just play the game they've bought, without any risks. That's why I believe a mod becoming the "standard" will be difficult, no matter how good P:M is, or becomes.

 

[Revven]

Making an unofficial, cheap, and possibly illegal hack the standard is just silly.

I'm assuming cheap as in little cost, yes? If so, yes, it doesn't cost anyone really anything!

While hacking you're wii (at least for most of the people in this thread) is easy when you know what your doing, it can be sort of sketchy for those who don't know much about it. Just the chance of bricking your wii is frightening enough to not want to try it, no matter how little of a chance it is. It's just difficult for me to see the general ssb player going out of there way to hack their wii when they can just play the game they've bought, without any risks. That's why I believe a mod becoming the "standard" will be difficult, no matter how good P:M is, or becomes.

Uh, you don't have to hack your Wii at all to play any of the mods. This is the exact problem people are missing, you aren't required to hack your Wii. You only need a copy of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and an SD Card. You can load the mod directly through SSBB without ever having to install anything onto your Wii. Your Wii would be homebrew free.

It is possible for it to become standard, the community is just sketchy on everything and most people do not want to deviate from a game made by the actual company to a mod made by the community.

 

[Ecks]

But you don't need to hack your wii. Everyone I know who finds out about kc:mm practically begs me to hack their wii.


And how is modifying your stuff illegal? I paid for my game so I can do whatever I want to it because it's MY copy. I can give it away if I wanted to, I can make a backup if I want to, I can pretend it's a frisbee if I want to, I can draw profanities on it if I want to, and there's not a damn thing Nintendo can do about it because it's MY copy.


@Mr.Jackpot. Wdash wasn't intended. They accidentally did it, thought it was cool, and left it in.

Edit: Falco kinda beat me to it. Stupid mobile!

 

[xYeti]

I'm assuming cheap as in little cost, yes? If so, yes, it doesn't cost anyone really anything!



Uh, you don't have to hack your Wii at all to play any of the mods. This is the exact problem people are missing, you aren't required to hack your Wii. You only need a copy of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and an SD Card. You can load the mod directly through SSBB without ever having to install anything onto your Wii. Your Wii would be homebrew free.

It is possible for it to become standard, the community is just sketchy on everything and most people do not want to deviate from a game made by the actual company to a mod made by the community.

I'm sorry, I sort of miss wrote what I had initially intended. I know your wii does not have to have homebrew, and mods can be loaded through stage builder. What I mean, is really exactly what you wrote, that the smash community does not want to stray away from the company made game, because their simply sketched out. I would really love for P:M or some other competitive brawl mod to become the standard, I just don't have high hopes of it happening.

 

[link2702]

just to clear something up real quick

wavedashing "technically" wasn't intended...it was just a byproduct of the natural physics of the game, the airdodge system, it has NEVER been a glitch, its a simple physics exploit, but honestly its something that isn't anywhere NEAR the kind of big deal casuals have made it sound like, really to complain about something like that at all is foolish,

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

And how is modifying your stuff illegal? I paid for my game so I can do whatever I want to it because it's MY copy. I can give it away if I wanted to, I can make a backup if I want to, I can pretend it's a frisbee if I want to, I can draw profanities on it if I want to, and there's not a damn thing Nintendo can do about it because it's MY copy.

Yeah but when you host a tournament, that is where the issues are. Your using something that is copyright changing it and using it to host a tournament.

While I'm not very well versed in copyright laws, I think Nintendo would have issues with that if money got involved.

~

Also preference on which game is better. Not like it matters since both games get similar turn outs number wise at a national level and results show people do enjoy both games.

 

[NoAh MenQui]

Yeah but when you host a tournament, that is where the issues are. Your using something that is copyright changing it and using it to host a tournament.

While I'm not very well versed in copyright laws, I think Nintendo would have issues with that if money got involved.

~

Also preference on which game is better. Not like it matters since both games get similar turn outs number wise at a national level and results show people do enjoy both games.

You aren't doing anything illegal tbh if you charge for a tournament of B+/-PM

you are chargibg them to play "Brawl" regardless the mod you loading with geckoOs or stage builder exploit

You are still charging them to play brawl, and it's still nintendo's character and all

My opinion was given

- Also, P:M might become a tournament standard, the community is who does this and look, they have hopes and won't stop -

 

[Ecks]

I'd say you're charging them to enter the tourney, not to play Brawl or the mod, since they can do that at home. If that were the case, any tourney, mod or not, would be illegal.

Besides, Nintendo considers mods and fan games as fanart so I doubt they mind. Furthermore, believe it or not, I've heard of people buying Brawl because of Project M. I doubt anyone objects to that.

 

[link2702]

errr actually in no way whatsoever does nintendo consider mods anywhere near like Fanart.

they do seriously consider them hacks, and do whatever they can to stop em, the only reason they can't with the smash mods is the community found a loophole nintendo can't fix with the stage editor(or was it the replay mode? i can't remember which it is.), but believe me nintendo doesn't like mods.

They don't welcome mods with open arms like some developers do(usually western developers like Valve), they never really have.

 

[Strong Badam]

^they haven't sent smashmods.com a C&D.

Wasn't it's those faults that made the game interesting? Unintended wave dashing mechanic and other things.

the faults being imbalance and a lack of stage variety, not mechanics lol.

Red Ryu: Project M tourneys aren't any more illegal than Brawl or Melee tournaments are. Brawl discs are still required for the game to be played, the TO isn't charging per play or whatever.

 

[UltiMario]

I believe that some big-name Nintendo person made the stance that hacking a game was fine to them, as it showed the fan's love and how devoted they are.... I think it was actually Sakurai himself.... or was it Satoshi... no.... maybe? Bah I can't remember....

 

[Ecks]

It was Iwata lol

 

[UltiMario]

God my memory

so ****ing terrible

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Sakurai stopped supporting us after no tripping code.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Red Ryu: Project M tourneys aren't any more illegal than Brawl or Melee tournaments are. Brawl discs are still required for the game to be played, the TO isn't charging per play or whatever.

The one that edits copyrighted material and hosting it for money, is less illegal than ones that don't?

I believe that some big-name Nintendo person made the stance that hacking a game was fine to them, as it showed the fan's love and how devoted they are.... I think it was actually Sakurai himself.... or was it Satoshi... no.... maybe? Bah I can't remember....

I don't recall this.