Why do we laser?

[Tommy_G]

No this isn't another stupid thread asking why we laser or even a thread saying falco can win without them.

This is a discussion on Falco's laser game.
Aside from the obvious physical effects of adding damage, also discuss the mental stress lasers put on the opponent and when you think is the best time to switch to close fighting(because you will lose if you dont or do it at the wrong time.)

I'll explain more about what to discuss later. I have to go to work.

 

[PhantomX]

Laser is too good against people with strong backairs.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Force an approach and cancel out some of their air game. Also puts stress on opponents, but opponents with good crouches and who can crouchwalk, it's kinda useless. It's fun when you do a soundless laser and immedeatly attack. Lol I do that with full jump F-air, Laser immedeatly when done and U-smash. It's so stupid, it works.

 

[magikguy]

to annoy people honestly.

 

[PK-ow!]

• You do it to rack damage.
  
• You do it to make a brick wall. -> You do it to demoralize the opponent; You do it to be safe.
  
• You do it to soften your opponent's defenses.
  
• You do it to put your opponent on the defensive.
  
• You do it to screw up an aerial maneuver.
  
• You do it to gimp Ness. (jerks...)
  
• You do it to look flashy. -> You do it to win the crowd; You do it for your own morale.
  
• You do it to force an approach.

...
Personally I do it for the pew pew sound. X_X

 

[King Funk]

Lasers are great to keep the enemy under constant pressure because it forces him not to take too much damage. To avoid as many lasers as possible and in order to approach you, your opponent's game will limit itself in quite a few aspects. Falco is the type of character which is like poison for the other characters because he makes them play pretty bad.

There are two main things you hinder in your opponent's game. First of all, movement. Your opponent, to go through your defence (lasers), will either have to powershield, jump (or fly), or use higher priority movement-based attacks. Some characters of course will have less problems getting to you than others (Meta Knight > King Dedede). Secondly, planning/preparation. Lasering prevents the enemy from preparing certain moves (DK Punch, Lucario/Samus projectiles), but it prevents them most importantly from thinking. And thinking plays a large part in characters like Snake or Diddy.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Acutally, the mental part is something I've been thinking about for awhile now. I think Falco's laser game could be taken to a whole new level if applied correctly. I've just yet to see anyone really do it. First off, you have the whole SHL/SHDL and empty SHs you can do. But really everyone just focuses on throwing out SHDL/SHL just for the heck of it. Empty SHs aren't really a big thing. And pretty much everyone takes falco as using SHLD/SHL to start up stuff and to not keep up constant pressure.

Then you have ground lasers, that even though are easily punishable, can still be effective. I mean after throwing out SHDL and SHL most know to powershield when the hit is coming, but a good chain of maybe 2-3 ground lasers throws people off for like that split sec. It irrates some. Throw in the aspect of phantasms and reflector you are really getting to them.

I hope this gets across what I'm trying to say. It's sort of difficult to explain what I mean.

 

[B-Mon]

I dos it for teh m4D l33tness of teH l4z0rZ.

I do it pretty much to keep my fingers moving and to liven up the match.

 

[Z1GMA]

I'm....... Surprised no one's mentioned how good it renews decayed attacks o___o

 

[Blistering Speed]

Also puts stress on opponents, but opponents with good crouches and who can crouchwalk, it's kinda useless.

Nope, Falco is severely limiting his opponents options and putting them in a disadvantaged position from a crouch walk. From an actual crouch, it's even worse, Falco has free reign to move anywhere whilst his opponent can only sit there, not to mention that if the Falco is at the percentage advantage (which is likely in a starting neutral position because of initial laser spam) then THEY will be the ones to eventually be forced to approach.

I'm....... Surprised no one's mentioned how well it renews decayed attacks o___o

Because glaring grammatical errors glare.

Lasers are proof that Sakurai has no concept of fighting game balance, he took an incredible Melee projectile, one which played a large role in a character in a top 4's tier postion and overall metagame....and buffed it.

 

[J4pu]

Lasers are proof that Sakurai has no concept of fighting game balance, he took an incredible Melee projectile, one which played a large role in a character in a top 4's tier postion and overall metagame....and buffed it.

please explain, because I am curious.
it doesn't fit in AS well because of increase jump height combined with no FF during special moves, while these aren't properties of the laser itself it still doesn't add as much to Falco as a character.
on the flip side this is made up for because brawl is a camping based game.

but I'm curious to hear your reasons.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Why do fish swim?
Why do birds fly?
Cept Falco. He fires his lazors. BLARGH

 

[Z1GMA]

Because glaring grammatical errors glare.

That's very mature... lol, man. just lol

 

[iPikmin]

it anoys and forces an aproach to get a hit by the reflector, get defensive and stressed and continue lasering or chaingrabbing for extra stress

 

[SpongeBathBill]

Acutally, the mental part is something I've been thinking about for awhile now. I think Falco's laser game could be taken to a whole new level if applied correctly. I've just yet to see anyone really do it. First off, you have the whole SHL/SHDL and empty SHs you can do. But really everyone just focuses on throwing out SHDL/SHL just for the heck of it. Empty SHs aren't really a big thing. And pretty much everyone takes falco as using SHLD/SHL to start up stuff and to not keep up constant pressure.

T3h mindgames. Can you expand on this? What would you do with a simple SH when the opponent was expecting an SHL?

I can think of three things:
1. They might shield for no reason, disrupting their rhythm and possibly leaving them open as they lag on their shield-dropping animation.
2. If you do it often enough, they may end up getting faked out when you do a real SHL when they were expecting an SH, and end up taking damage.
3. They'll time for a barrage of SHLs that you can -> into something else.

Am I thinking in the right direction, or is that way off-base? There anything else?

 

[Hawks go Caw]

T3h mindgames. Can you expand on this? What would you do with a simple SH when the opponent was expecting an SHL?

I can think of three things:
1. They might shield for no reason, disrupting their rhythm and possibly leaving them open as they lag on their shield-dropping animation.
2. If you do it often enough, they may end up getting faked out when you do a real SHL when they were expecting an SH, and end up taking damage.
3. They'll time for a barrage of SHLs that you can -> into something else.

Am I thinking in the right direction, or is that way off-base? There anything else?

Way off. Not really. What you said is good, though I haven't heard of people just straight up punishing a shield drop. Most character's have some sort of projectile reflector, and some of them are laggy (reflector, ROB's side B, Zelda's neutral B come to mind). You can try to bait that and punish. You can empty SH and if they tend to shield, you can grab. Just mixing things up also helps to prevent you from going into autopilot and repeating patterns. Makes you think a bit more.

 

[Alphicans]

Lasers are just the filler really. After a satisfying 60% cg combo it's nice to relax and get another 10% from lasers and then get in some dairs and maybe a bair or smash in. It's all those things already listed, but in reality all lasers are are the filler between arials. Also It helps to keep your hands in motion, so you never slow down, you're always fully functioning, so the time it takes to react to something will be significantly shorter.

 

[Teran]

Laser pressure helps to force errors far more easily. Sure they can powershield and manoeuvre through it eventually, but having a merciless barrage of lasers obviously affects their overall game when they're focusing on getting round them.

Yeah, lasers piss your opponent off too, a lot, and that's always a good thing.

 

[vKo]

Because we can.
Because if we didn't, it'd irritate us that we have a blaster and don't use (see Captain Falcon).
Because we like to annoy people.
Because it stops enemy movement.
Because it adds damage.
Because it makes us look professional.
Because it opens windows for other moves.
Because it's a defensive offense.

In free for alls, I personally enjoy lasering people as their offstage.
Selling someone out by shooting them, so that they're stunned - allowing them to get spiked by another player..
Is just WINJUICE.

 

[Runawayfire]

Space control.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Because if we didn't, it'd irritate us that we have a blaster and don't use (see Captain Falcon).

We are like Captain Falcon. We have a blaster we don't use either.

Sniper Rifle

Falco: HANDS OFF PUNK!

 

[eRonin]

^It's true, in SSE he has two blasters, where's the other one, Falco? WHERE IS IT??

 

[Vlade]

Back on topic please

 

[Tommy_G]

Here are some questions for you. I'll get some better ones soon. Headache is killing me...no johns.

What are things you see people do(other than the obvious) that lets you know they're frustrated with lasers? As in how do they play differently?
What are some of the things each character does to get around lasers that make them vulnerable to other attacks?

 

[PK-ow!]

Here are some questions for you. I'll get some better ones soon. Headache is killing me...no johns.

What are things you see people do(other than the obvious) that lets you know they're frustrated with lasers? As in how do they play differently?
What are some of the things each character does to get around lasers that make them vulnerable to other attacks?

They stop feinting.

They get up to you and try to hit you. There may be dodging and shielding still, but they stop trying to interfere with your rhythm. They become more impatient like that.

It's rather beautiful. They totally don't know they're doing it.

 

[kismet2]

They stop feinting.

They get up to you and try to hit you. There may be dodging and shielding still, but they stop trying to interfere with your rhythm. They become more impatient like that.

It's rather beautiful. They totally don't know they're doing it.

Not all people are impatient. In order to make them irritated, you have to find out what annoys them(they make more mistakes). Simply lasering your opponent and making them frustrated won't happen with everyone.

 

[PK-ow!]

Not all people are impatient. In order to make them irritated, you have to find out what annoys them(they make more mistakes). Simply lasering your opponent and making them frustrated won't happen with everyone.

Ah, but I was answering his question, how do you know they are impatient?

I never depend on frustrating people. In truth... I don't think about that dimension at all. I just play.
(I give the answer in my last post in virtue of things I've done as a spectator of some matches.)

... probably a weakness, if I can't tap into my opponent's frustration, but I have more fruitful things to work on right now.

 

[King Funk]

Not all people are impatient. In order to make them irritated, you have to find out what annoys them(they make more mistakes). Simply lasering your opponent and making them frustrated won't happen with everyone.

It totally depends who you're playing against... A Kirby or Meta Knight player won't find it too annoying, but a D3 or Snake player will definitely feel irritated being lasered all the time. The more the character struggles with Falco's lasers, the more the one who plays him feels impatient and frustrated. I think it's more about the character than the player.

When I play with the opponent at low or mid percentages, whenever I'm far away and out of harm's way I always SHDL because I pratically nothing else to do. I try to make it as hard as possible for him to approach, and also probably to make him play more aggressively, thus dropping progressively his dodges, armor, and make him commit errors (which makes it a lot easier for me, because I consequently get easier kills).

 

[kismet2]

Ah, but I was answering his question, how do you know they are impatient?

I never depend on frustrating people. In truth... I don't think about that dimension at all. I just play.
(I give the answer in my last post in virtue of things I've done as a spectator of some matches.)

... probably a weakness, if I can't tap into my opponent's frustration, but I have more fruitful things to work on right now.

Most aggressive players are impatient.

I kind of don't find anything great with Falco's lasers imo. They seem so situational to me.

 

[Denzi]

Most aggressive players are impatient.

I kind of don't find anything great with Falco's lasers imo. They seem so situational to me.

What. They have the ability to completely change matchups. Is Peach going to be able to float through a wall of lasers? No. They do similar things to other characters. Basically, they allow us to control the pace of the match.

 

[Alphicans]

By situational do you mean in all situations? Cause lasers are good always.

 

[Vlade]

Some players I verse start to spotdodge every single SHDL I throw at them.

Sometimes I catch them with an IAP, but every now and then they spot dodge that as well

I guess to solve that problem I could just space a phantasm so I land right next to them, and then quickly jab combo.

 

[zyklon]

Some players I verse start to spotdodge every single SHDL I throw at them.

Sometimes I catch them with an IAP, but every now and then they spot dodge that as well

I guess to solve that problem I could just space a phantasm so I land right next to them, and then quickly jab combo.

I think this is one of the situations brought up earlier where a few grounded lasers could be very useful. Do a few retreating SHLs and if they just spotdodge, do SHSL -> 2-3 (or more even if your opponent is confused) grounded lasers. I can't even count the amount of damage I've racked up this way when opponents thought they would be clever and just spotdodge my SHLs...

 

[Blistering Speed]

please explain, because I am curious.
it doesn't fit in AS well because of increase jump height combined with no FF during special moves, while these aren't properties of the laser itself it still doesn't add as much to Falco as a character.
on the flip side this is made up for because brawl is a camping based game.

but I'm curious to hear your reasons.

Well, when I said the projectile was buffed I meant the projectile solely. Granted there are a lot of mitigating factors to this (such as the ones you listed), but I was merely talking about the move itself, which is unarguably better.

 

[Teran]

@ Tommy's new question

By lasering and putting them under pressure we condition them. Even if we don't anger them per se, we're still making their movements more predictable by restricting what they can do. Still, most cases of frustration in my opinion are either people just jumping and holding on to the edge and regrabbing until I chase them down, or just charging in and attacking wildly and leaving themselves open. That's the kinda stuff annoyed people have done.

Non crawlers that can duck under lasers may just camp in a ducking position until you stop lasering, but that's stupid and can be punished with an IAP anyway. Besides, we'll probably have got the first hit or two so just fire lasers and run down the clock lol, if they're gonna play that game. Some characters with good aerial mobility might try and SH Airdodge through, but the most simple and effective way is just to dash > powershield. That's especially annoying when you're faced with opponents like Marth, MK and especially Sonic (I think so anyway).

I'd think of more but right now I'm not in the best shape =\

 

[kismet2]

What. They have the ability to completely change matchups. Is Peach going to be able to float through a wall of lasers? No. They do similar things to other characters. Basically, they allow us to control the pace of the match.

They don't help controlling paces of matches imo. Peach can short hop air dodge through lasers and all she has to do is stay just outside of Falco's attack range(which isn't very long), once the players sees the Falco try to laser he is able to be punished. And the opponent shouldn't approach Falco since he can't do anything about ledge camping.

@ Tommy's new question

By lasering and putting them under pressure we condition them. Even if we don't anger them per se, we're still making their movements more predictable by restricting what they can do. Still, most cases of frustration in my opinion are either people just jumping and holding on to the edge and regrabbing until I chase them down, or just charging in and attacking wildly and leaving themselves open. That's the kinda stuff annoyed people have done.

Non crawlers that can duck under lasers may just camp in a ducking position until you stop lasering, but that's stupid and can be punished with an IAP anyway. Besides, we'll probably have got the first hit or two so just fire lasers and run down the clock lol, if they're gonna play that game. Some characters with good aerial mobility might try and SH Airdodge through, but the most simple and effective way is just to dash > powershield. That's especially annoying when you're faced with opponents like Marth, MK and especially Sonic (I think so anyway).

I'd think of more but right now I'm not in the best shape =\

IAP can be punished/interrupted.

 

[superglucose]

Camping can wreck an opponent. I don't mean damage wise (though that helps), but I was behind in a match recently and there were four minutes left on the clock. I camped the hell out of my opponent for three of those minutes, overcoming an 80% deficit against lucario. After those three minutes were up, I was at 85% and he was at 160%, and so mentally wrecked that sh->running usmash killed him because he shaded expecting another laser. He also lost his next set he was so frustrated.

 

[kismet2]

Camping can wreck an opponent. I don't mean damage wise (though that helps), but I was behind in a match recently and there were four minutes left on the clock. I camped the hell out of my opponent for three of those minutes, overcoming an 80% deficit against lucario. After those three minutes were up, I was at 85% and he was at 160%, and so mentally wrecked that sh->running usmash killed him because he shaded expecting another laser. He also lost his next set he was so frustrated.

A smart player would expect an Usmash or any killing attempt at any point if they're at killing percentage. So they'd space more, bait attacks and such. And camping with Falco doesn't wreck opponents, it only works great on people who get annoyed easily, a.k.a. scrubs.

 

[Kais3000]

And the opponent shouldn't approach Falco since he can't do anything about ledge camping.

Yeah coming from an MK main. Not every character can play ledge games, i.e planking, as well as MK and as such they HAVE to approach.

A smart player would expect an Usmash or any killing attempt at any point if they're at killing percentage. So they'd space more, bait attacks and such. And camping with Falco doesn't wreck opponents, it only works great on people who get annoyed easily, a.k.a. scrubs.

Yes a smart player would expect a killing attempt. But if your opponent is not capitalising on your percents by just sitting there and camping, then your mind will relax as it doesn't look your opponent is going to kill you anytime soon. This is then when you slip up and get punished with a stock gone. It happens to the best of us and you just have to pick yourself up and make sure you win the next match and hopefully the set. Also the fact that some characters have to approach. If this character is also a slow character, i'e bowser, then they can't really bait attacks and punish, they'll just get their punish punished and so stock gone.

 

[NJzFinest]

To not get grabbed and safely reposition myself.