Why do people say chaingrabbing is lame?

[★Malik★™]

@OP

because they can't escape it. i mean they can but you know, at a certain % level.

 

[Apollo$]

Chaingrabs are completely legit

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

You have to be really good to use infinite chain grabs on a Kirby ._.....

 

[superyoshi888]

Or have two Dededes. Team brawl, get kirby by himself, surround him, and keep dthrowing and grabbing him.

Just goes to show you Dedede doesn't need a monstah to clobbah dat dere Kirbeh.

 

[GreenFox]

Or have two Dededes. Team brawl, get kirby by himself, surround him, and keep dthrowing and grabbing him.

Just goes to show you Dedede doesn't need a monstah to clobbah dat dere Kirbeh.

This isnt gonna work if you have a teamate with a brain unless hes out of the game which then you probally lost anyway

Also having 2 dededes on one team isn't the best of ideas

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

"Look at me, I caught you in a nearly inescapable combo. I am so much better than you. Ignore the fact that I don't know how to play the character any further than this and that many people's reliance on this tactic has resulted in a good number of stages being banned. It's a perfectly legitimate strategy."
The fact is, chain grabs let bad players pretend to be good, like Game & Watches getting people to fill their buckets and then killing people, playing as a character with a reflector on Super Mario Bros., or, playing Meta Knight.

 

[superyoshi888]

No johns. Play to win. No items, Meta Knight only, Final Destination.

This is the competitive mindset. Whether you like it or not doesn't matter, it's how the game is played. So what if the bad players think they're good? The better players will still beat them at the higher levels of play.

 

[REL38]

"Look at me, I caught you in a nearly inescapable combo. I am so much better than you. Ignore the fact that I don't know how to play the character any further than this and that many people's reliance on this tactic has resulted in a good number of stages being banned. It's a perfectly legitimate strategy."
The fact is, chain grabs let bad players pretend to be good, like Game & Watches getting people to fill their buckets and then killing people, playing as a character with a reflector on Super Mario Bros., or, playing Meta Knight.

lol upcoming wall of text

But a better player SHOULD be able to punish and counter the bad players moves. The bad player will more than likely do nothing but make attempts to grab you which will become VERY predictable. Bad players will more than often lose when all they rely off of is the chain grab.

A mediocre player will be less predictable since they'll use other tactics to get you into the chain grab. They'll still gonna grab 2-3 times OoS in hopes that you'll come into range so that's something to expect and counter.

A good player will not only rely off of the CG to win the match. They'd have more knowledge about the character and utilize everything in their moveset to screw you over. The CG will help their game, but chances are they don't really need it to screw you over. The CG would just be something to build % if their tactics aren't working.


More people have a problem with the mediocre player than any of the 3. Bad players can't win. Even with the chain grab. Their only objective will be going for the grab. Decent players might lose a stock or so because they're just decent players. They most likely run straight into a grab without thinking. The thought of "Argh! Stop chain grabbing!" is going to cloud their judgement with frustration and fury.

A good player will NOT lose to a bad player who CG's. The good player will read the bad one right from the beginning and know how to counter. Good players don't lose to bad players who CG. If you do, then you suck since reading the moves of a player who relys souly on CG's is like reading "See Spot Run"

See D3 run
See D3 approach
See Ganon roll
See D3 turn and grab
See Ganon wait and Stomp
See D3 try grabbing again
See D3 be predictable

A mediocre player still relys off of CG's, but not exclusively. That makes reading the opponent a bit more difficult leading to CG. You might lose a stock, but you should have figured him out by then.


The CG problem (more notibly D3) isn't as bad as people make it out to be. You're only really at disadvantage on FD. Every other stage (tourny legal) has platforms to avoid it. Pick up a 2nd to take care of the bad MU.

Every character has their own fair share of bad MU. Some with more, some with less. That's what you gotta consider with your main.

My Kirby gets screwed by Gayman Watch, IC's and MK (My Kirby sucks against MK). So I picked up Snake to take care of those MU's. That's why people HAVE 2nds.

I've stated varies times in this thread that CG's are legit and WILL remain legal. There's no reason it should EVER be banned. Nothing merits it that. It may seem "gay" or "********", but tough.

D3 infinite is understandable for being stupid and is banned (for the most part). But the CG isn't game breaking at the very least.


tl;dr version
As Superyoshi said, "No Johns. Play to Win"


Btw stages getting banned due to certain char. ain't new. Look at Melee Fox and Yoshi's Island.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

Kudos for the long speech, fellow Kirby player . I'm glad you're angry about the Ice Climbers as well as I am ._.

I'm thinking about making my secondary Bowser, but I'm worried about the fact that he's easy to chain-grab that I shouldn't use him ..

 

[JUDGE]

lol guys think ABOUT IT
just don't get grabbed
no grab,no infintes
playing smart, space him,read his pivot grab,shieldpoke
or beeing a scrub and say cg are gay <.<

 

[Scipion121212]

@OP

because they can't escape it. i mean they can but you know, at a certain % level.

Yet Melee combos are so praised...

 

[urdailywater]

Yet Melee combos are so praised...

cause they take more skill to use at most times. and look better

though that's all i really came to say in this thread.

other than that i have no other way of contributing.

huh, i should've thought my plan through more.


...play2win. there. done.

edit: skill and video games.

.. i now find that funny.

ok i'm gone.

 

[Crazy_mofo213]

Yet Melee combos are so praised...

Because they take skill and practice.
Not to mention that's what makes fighting games.

 

[JUDGE]

^this

in brawl you just have to tilt the control stick down and follow up the opponent
(except IC's)

 

[Roarfang]

I tend to not grab. Definite break from the action and just doesn't fit in the smash and mindgames category, in my oh so sought after opinion. XD Maybe biased because I just hate grabbing, and now because of that I am better off not even attempting it and sticking with traditional methods of racking up damage.

 

[BSP]

I tend to not grab. Definite break from the action and just doesn't fit in the smash and mindgames category, in my oh so sought after opinion. XD Maybe biased because I just hate grabbing, and now because of that I am better off not even attempting it and sticking with traditional methods of racking up damage.

Really? IMO grabbing is a great option. Like i use mario luigi and sonic. grabbing with mario and luigi means 6% and maybe a follow up if im good, or 12%, and pummel damage. Sonic's throws set up for spindashes, edgegaurds, kills kinda, and good damage. I grab a lot actually.

 

[Roarfang]

Really? IMO grabbing is a great option. Like i use mario luigi and sonic. grabbing with mario and luigi means 6% and maybe a follow up if im good, or 12%, and pummel damage. Sonic's throws set up for spindashes, edgegaurds, kills kinda, and good damage. I grab a lot actually.

Ah yes really. A definite hubris of mine. Players who grab against me tend to at least give me minor annoyances in matches. XP I would try but I have degenerated so much of it that I find it awkward. But oh well. X3

 

[Insetick]

What if MK had a chaingrab to 80% on everyone? And it could be followed up by a dsmash?

 

[BSP]

What if MK had a chaingrab to 80% on everyone? And it could be followed up by a dsmash?

ice climbers DO have that and worse

 

[De4th-4ng3l]

What if MK had a chaingrab to 80% on everyone? And it could be followed up by a dsmash?

That would make MK even godlier and there would b no point in playing IMO.

 

['V']

For the record, chaingrabs aren't the only things in this game that I think are lame.

 

[GALE 14]

chain grab is cool but with ics
it's boring cuz in matches he and she do this f**** sh**chain grab ever time
and i hate it so much

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Yet Melee combos are so praised...

Usually the people who praise combos also chaingrab.

Hornet Man

When the flower blooms, the bees come uninvited.​

Hornet Man is one of 8 Robots in Mega Man 9 developed by Dr. Wily, whose expiration dates had expired. He was originally designed to manage a Flower Park, a trait which shows up rather heavily in his Playstyle. His weapon is the Hornet Chaser, which shoots out three Hornets to chase Megaman. Well named.

His weakness in MM9 is the Magma Bazooka. In Brawl, while he only takes an additional 1.2x damage from fire effects, any Hives and Hornets will catch on fire if they're hit. This makes them take 5% a second until they collapse into a pile of ashes. Please note that if a Beehive is destroyed in this manner, it will not create any new Hornets like it usually does.​

Height: 8

Weight: 6

Power: 7

Fall Speed: 7

Jump: 3

Air Jump: 5

Speed: 6

Traction: 5

In this moveset, I use the term "Honeyfied" a lot. What exactly IS this term? Well, several of Hornet Man's attacks will cover the foe (or himself, even) in Honey. This delicious, gooey substance sticks to the foe much like a Gooey Bomb would, except that they can't pass it off. When Honeyfied, their idle stance changes to them wiping the honey off their body, and licking their fingers. Animal-like Brawlers (such as Pikachu) will instead directly lick their bodies. If left alone, they'll be able to recover 2% every second by doing so.

However, they're not the only ones with an interest in the Honey... if they are in the range of any Hives (explained in the Neutral Special), idle Hornets will flock to them, and "harvest" the Honey just like they would from a Flower Garden. (Down Special) They aren't exactly gentle about it, however... this harvesting is still treated like an attack from the Hornets. Thus, even one Hornet will be able to completely counteract the Honey's healing affect,and even throw an additional 1% into the mix. That said, however, the Hornets are sitting ducks while they gather Honey from the foe, completely vulnerable to any form of counterattack. Lastly, Hornets gathering Honey WILL drop what they're doing in response to a Neutral Air, so they're that much more controllable than Aggressive Hornets.​

​

Neutral Special: Beehive

Hornet Man turns to face away from the screen, and some wet, slimy sounds are heard as he lowers his head. This is chargeable just like DK's Giant Punch, meaning that you can store it as you go. Once you reach full charge, press B again and Hornet Man will vomit out a large amount of wood pulp, which smushes onto the ground and reforms into a perfect beehive, just like the ones you see all over the country these days. (If you don’t fully charge the move, the pulp doesn’t take shape, becoming a useless sticky blob on the ground.) This beehive has 50 stamina, meaning foes can attack it... but it doesn't serve as an obstacle. Also, you can shoot more pulp from this move into hives. This replenishes stamina for half the amount of the charge. (So, if you charge it all the way, 25% will be restored, etc.)

Every second, the beehive will release a single Hornet, which will hover aimlessly around. Up to 10 Hornets may be created from every hive. Each Hornet has 15 stamina, and will only attack the foe if the foe first attacks it, sticking on like a Pikmin. They will attack 3x a second, dealing 1% per hit, and will not let go until they are destroyed. All the while, any Hornet who comes out of the hive at this time will immediately chase after the opponent, until they escape the range of the nest. When they exit this area, all Hornets revert to being passive, and will return to the nest to resume their duties, if they have any. Please note that there is no limit to the number of Hornets the hive can produce, just the number of Hornets in play from the same hive.

Hornets will also chase the opponent down if they attack the nest itself. If it's destroyed, three additional hornets will pop out in addition to any that are already in play, and every Hornet from the destroyed Hive becomes aggressive. They'll chase down anything that enters their range at 1.5x their usual speed, milling around awkwardly around the broken Hive when there is no target. Yes, that includes Hornet Man himself. If you create a new Beehive within their range, they will stop being aggressive, and treat the hive like their own. Of course, they’re added to the running total of this Hive, taking away from the maximum number of Hornets.

Lastly, (yes, I promise you this is the last point), be careful about where you set these up, as Hornets from opposing hives will fight with eachother if they get within the range of a battlefield platform, completely ignoring their duties until all the involved Hornets are either dead or victorious.

Note: The hive looks like the one at the start of the move, not the one in the image. About the same size, though.
These Hornets (and any other Hornets Hornet Man makes) are affected by wind to an even greater extent than a grounded character, since, y'know, they don't have any friction. However, Hornets called to you with your Dash Attack and Neutral Air are only affected as much as Hornet Man himself is.

Additional note for Plorf: This move can be used in midair.​

[0%]​

Side Special: Hornet Chaser

Hornet Man's Honeycombs open up with little lag, and out of each comes a single Hornet. These Hornets will each seek a different foe (if possible), moving at the speed of Mario's run. They can't go through solid surfaces, but they have pretty good AI. Once they reach the foe, they will latch on and perform their basic, 3 hits per second attack. If there is no enemy onscreen, they will simply fly away at an upwards angle. Each of these Hornets has a mere 8 stamina, and unlike the ones formed by the Beehives, have infinite range.

Note: These Hornets can also be manipulated using your moves that require Hornets, although they will once again fly away as soon as the move is over. They cannot be called back by your Neutral Air or Dash Attack, and they won't attack other Hornets. Finally, you cannot use this move again until all the Hornets spawned by the Hornet Chaser are gone.​

[3% per second x 3]​

Up Special: Hornet Lifter

Hornet Man gives a quick whistle, and then pops out a pair of gossamer wings from his back, flapping them furiously. Regrettably, they prove to be far too flimsy to support his weight, and he falls towards his doom (admittedly, a bit slower)... how sad. However, if there are any non-aggressive Hornets in the area, they will swarm down to Hornet Man at double their usual speed; we're talking Falcon's dash, now. It takes the power of three Hornets to stop Hornet Man's fall, and for every additional three, he'll fly upwards at his falling speed. Regardless of the speed, this recovery lasts two seconds, and all Hornets will return to their hives at its end.

Note: Hornet Man's wings count as 1 Hornet Power, meaning that it actually only takes two Hornets to get him to stop his momentum.​

[0%]​

Down Special: Flower Garden

You know, Hornet Man was actually designed to manage a flower park... and those Hornets of his are just dying for something to do. When you use this move, the flaps on his chest will open, and three seeds pop out, immediately embedding themselves in the ground. Over a period of time, they will sprout, grow, and blossom, reaching full bloom in a mere ten seconds. The flowers cannot be attacked, but they have 20 stamina.

Now, any Hornets within range of these flowers will fly over to them if they aren't currently aggressive, and begin to gather nectar. Each Hornet can carry 3% worth of nectar (this takes one second, just like they had been attacking an enemy), which is subtracted from the flowers' stamina. Once they get as much nectar as they can hold, they'll fly back to the hive at half their normal speed, and drop off their nectar. This process repeats until the flowers wither away at zero stamina.

Any nectar that is dropped off at the hive will turn into Honey. You can eat Honey in the same manner that you would food... just stand next to the hive and button-mash A. You'll recover 2-3% each press, meaning that it's possible to recover 20% worth of health from every patch of flowers. Nice.
Opponents can also steal the Honey, so be warned. However, if there are any idle bees around, they'll become aggressive and begin attacking the foe, hopefully making up for any damage they may have recovered.

Note: If a Hornet is attacked while carrying nectar, it will not fight back. They also cannot be used for any other Hornet-based attacks until they drop off their load at the hive.​

[0%]​

​

Neutral A: Shears

Hornet Man pulls out a pair of garden shears from hammerspace, and will begin to clip with them as he slowly walks forwards. Each time the shears close, a hitbox causing 4% damage and small, set knockback occurs, just enough to get the opponent out of the way if they move. At all.

Yeah, it's a pretty pathetic attack. A bit of starting lag and ending lag, no KO OR damage-racking potential. You'll mainly be using this move to either remove an ill-placed Flower Garden, or to sever the rope from your FThrow.​

[4%]​

Dash Attack: Relocate

Hornet Man makes a beckoning motion over his shoulder while looking backwards, calling any Hornets within the general area behind him to fly along with him as he runs. While this deals no damage to opponents in front of Hornet Man, anyone caught behind him as he continues to run will suddenly find a swarm of Hornets coming towards them, dealing 2% with flinching knockback as they pass through. Using this move when you already have Hornets following you will disband them, and they will fly towards the nearest unfilled hive, now treated like they came from that hive in the first place. If this overfills the number of Hornets per hive, they will fly back to their original Hive.​

[2% x (varies)]​

Front Tilt: Honey Swab

Immediately after you input his FTilt, the honeycombs on Hornet Man's chest will begin to leak, causing Honey to spill all over his chest. No problem, however... with a bit of starting lag, Hornet Man wipes this goo off, and flicks his wrist forward, splattering it in front of him. His hand is the hitbox, here, dealing 10% with knockback that kills well into the 200%'s. There's an additional, disjointed hitbox from the honey splatter that deals 1%, and Honeyfies the opponent. This is a good spacing tool, and a quick way to cover the foe in Honey, if you're having a spot of difficulty.​

[10% + 1%]​

Up Tilt: Prick

Better put that spike on his head to some use, huh? Inputting his UTilt will cause him to suddenly stand straight up, creating a hitbox the size of Marth's USmash. Foes caught in the path of the spike will stick to it, taking 6% as they do so. With a spot of lag afterwards, Hornet Man will bend down slightly, and then fling his foe forwards with set knockback the length of two Battlefield platforms.

The obvious use for this move is to throw opponents into an area where there are a lot of Hornets, as if they hit any Hornets on their way, they will turn aggressive.​

[6%]​

Down Tilt: Pollinate

With very little starting lag, the flaps on Hornet Man's chest open, and release a yellowish powder, which covers an area about the size of Bowser, lingering in the air for about a second. This cloud deals 2% without any form of knockback, and also will apply a Lip's Stick effect to any foe who walks through it.
More importantly, however, this will restore stamina to any nearby Flower Gardens, even if they're withered. Use this well, and you may never have to watch another garden die.​

[2% + Lip’s Stick]​

​

Front Smash: Stinger

Hornet Man bends over for this attack, and begins to tense up... his whole body language just screams "get out of the way". After releasing the charge, (and a bit of lag, as he steps back slightly), Hornet Man takes one step, and jabs his head forwards, the stinger extending slightly as it does so to increase the range. Fully extended, this reaches about the same distance as Marth's Neutral B, and deals 22-28% with diagonal knockback that kills somewhere around 130%. As it sounds, this is Hornet Man's ideal KO option. With its range and small starting lag (it does have some ending lag, though. Imagine Link's FSmash.) it'll be up to you to distract the opponent with some Hornets while you ready their doom.​

[22-28%]​

Up Smash: Nectar Spout

Hornet Man cranes his neck upwards to look at the sky, and some churning noises are heard as you charge this Smash. When you release the charge, he will shoot a fountain of nectar from his mouth, in a straight line 1-2 Stagebuilder blocks high, depending on charge. If this hits a foe, they will take up to 6 hits dealing 2-3% damage each, with no KO ability but very high hitstun. They will also be Honeyfied.
If there isn’t a foe in the way, the Honey will splatter back onto Hornet Man, Honeyfying him. This is Hornet Man’s only way of getting Honey on himself, and it can be used as an alternative to the Down Special.

While this move has too much ending lag (around a third of a second) to be chained into itself, you'll probably be able to follow this up with an UTilt. Honey 'em up and throw them into some hungry Hornets.​

Note: Hornet Man himself does NOT get the same "Honey" effect as his foes. He cannot recover health from the honey he splatters on himself, but having a bunch of Hornets on-hand can certainly help him out.

[12-18%]​

Down Smash: Hornet Cluster

Hornet Man gives a brief whistle, immediately calling any Hornets within two Battlefield Platforms to his side, much like Olimar's DSpecial. These Hornets align symmetrically, forming the points of a regular shape. (If you call 4, they'll make the points of a square, 2 will make a line, 7 makes a heptagon etc.) As you charge the move, they'll turn slowly to face Hornet Man, and begin to tense with energy. Releasing the charge will make them suddenly shoot outwards from the center, the length of Mario's head. Regardless of the amount of Hornets you have, this move will deal 14-22%, with med-high knockback in the direction of the Hornet that hit the opponent. Remember, the more Hornets you summon, the more hitboxes you'll have.

If you don't have ANY hornets with you, Hornet Man will instead perform a maneuver similar to Sheik's USmash, but with more horizontal range. This deals a pitiful 8-12% with low knockback, but at least it'll nab those opponents rolling around you.​

[14-22% or 8-12%]​

​

Neutral Air: Sweet Scent

The Honeycombs on Hornet Man's chest open up, and out of them comes a thick, pink fog, that will cause any non-aggressive Hornets within Battlefield's length to come to him, and hover around him as he moves through the air. You're going to need them for a couple aerial moves, so it would be wise to use this move soon.

Note: You can only have a maximum of eight Hornets following you through this move.
​

[0%]​

Front Air: Impale

Turning himself horizontal in midair, Hornet Man will then proceed to deal a quick jab with the stinger on his head, dealing 8% and moderate horizontal knockback with good priority. Expected a fancy Hornet-based attack? Too bad.​

[8%]​

Back Air: Chibees

This is a pretty laggy move at startup, so watch out... Hornet Man digs in one of the honeycombs in his chest, obviously trying to find something... and after about a half-second of lag, he finds it! A more conventional-looking hornet nest, sticky with Honey. With no thought, he discards it, dropping it behind himself with no further lag. When it lands, four tiny Hornets (known as Chibees, according to Plorf) spawn. These little guys are purely aggressive, and will hunt down the nearest opponent wherever they are. These little guys only have 8 stamina each, and deal only 2% a second instead of 3%. They also will fly offscreen after 10 seconds, assuming they survive that long. Still, they're a good distraction to the real threats.​

[2% per second x 4]​

Up Air: Cluster Missile

Hornet Man points upwards with his finger, a horrible, low priority hitbox that deals 6% with weak upwards knockback. If you have any Hornets around you, up to five of them will follow your finger, flying to a point about half an SB block above Hornet Man. Once there, they will be "blasted" outwards at the speed of Sonic's dash, forming a perfect shape like in the DSmash. Each Hornet deals 8% as it travels through a foe dealing flinching knockback, and keeps flying until it goes offscreen, never to be heard from again. Oh, and the first part of the UAir links into this. Have fun, but don't kill all your Hornets racking up the foe's damage with this move. You have plenty of other options to do that.
Finally, don’t expect to hit with every Hornet, even if you pull this off perfectly. The absolute maximum number of Hornets that’ll hit any given foe is 3.​

[6% + 8% x (0-3)]​

Down Air: Suicide Bomber

Hornet Man waves his hand below him in an arc, a weak, low-priority hitbox like that of his UAir. This deals 7% damage with weak upwards knockback. However, (you saw this coming, didn't you?) any Hornets following Hornet Man at the time will fly straight downwards, their stingers extended. These bees move steadily downwards at Mario's fall speed, and their stingers are hitboxes that will steadily drag the foe down while doing multiple hits of 2%. It's pretty easy to DI out of, though.​

[7% + 2% x (varies)]​

​

Grab: Hornet Pull

Hornet Man reaches out, and attempts to grab opponents with pitiful range, and a bit of lag. Good luck landing it.

However, if there are any Hornets currently attacking the foe, they'll begin dragging them towards Hornet Man at the same rate as his Up Special. Opponents will be unable to resist their pull, but can charge up a smash as they slide towards you. Be wary.

If a foe breaks your grab, you have pretty hefty ending lag to deal with afterwards. Not enough to let them Smash you away, but just enough to prevent a Chaingrab from his UThrow.​

Pummel: Slather

Hornet Man reaches into one the Honeycombs on his chest, and grabs some honey out of it. He then slaps the opponent with it, covering them in Honey while dealing 3%. Needless to say, this is a slow Pummel, but as it leaves the foe Honeyfied afterwards, it's well worth taking some time to use, especially if you follow up with a Front or Down Throw.​

[3%]​

Front Throw: Tether

Hornet Man sneaks in one more Pummel before throwing the opponent forwards, underhand. This pitiful gesture deals only 6% with low knockback, and it has no ability to KO... you know why? Hornet Man, with that last slap of Honey, just attached himself to the opponent. The length of this sticky, gooey rope is one Battlefield platform, plus an additional half platform for each Pummel you pulled off beforehand. Hornet Man serves as a perfect anchor, not budging an inch against their attempts to escape. He can also pull them around with ease, harshly limiting their territory. Pull them into a Hornet-infested area and watch their damage climb up, especially since they're covered in Honey. The rope can be destroyed after taking 20%, but it's still a good way to distract the opponent as they're swarmed by Hornets.​

[6%]​

Back Throw: Poison Sting

In one smooth motion, Hornet Man flips the opponent so that they're on their back... on top of the stinger on his head. This deals 4%. Then, just like his UTilt, Hornet Man flings them backwards for an additional 5%. Just as they're about to leave, his stinger flashes purple... and the opponent takes on a greenish tinge. They've been poisoned! Every second for 5 seconds, they'll take another 1%, bringing the total up to 14% damage from one throw.​

[9% + 1% x 5]​

Up Throw: Hornet Lifter

After giving a quick whistle to call any Hornets within a radius of one Battlefield Platform, Hornet Man... releases the opponent? Yep, they just slide right out of his grasp. However, as you may have noticed, the title of this move is identical to his Up Special... any Hornets that you just called or were already on the foe at the time will begin to fly straight upwards, pulling them up with the strength of his Up Special. This also takes their weight into consideration... Kirby's going to go up much faster than, say, Bowser. Foes can escape with Grab difficulty, taking 8% plus 1% for every Hornet doing the lifting.
If you use this move without any Hornets around... well, you just released them from a grab. While this could be used for Chaingrabbing, theoretically, keep in mind Hornet Man's less-than-ideal ending lag on releasing the opponent.​

[8% + 1% x (varies)]​

Down Throw: Aggressor

Hornet Man releases a red fog from the Honeycombs on his chest, and drops the opponent to the ground, dealing a mere 5%. However, this fog isn't just for show... any Hornet within range (two Battlefield Platforms in all directions) will immediately become Aggressive, and chase after the opponent, only stopping once they escape the same range. If they don't get up and roll away soon, their damage is really going to climb...​

[5%, angers Hornets]​

​

Final Smash: Harvest Time

When Hornet Man activates his Final Smash, the screen zooms in to him, and takes on an orangeish tint momentarily. A couple of leaves blow in from the side of the screen as an aesthetic effect. Now, when the screen zooms back out, you'll see that any Flower Gardens you may have made have doubled in width and will never run out of Honey (during the Final Smash), and Hives are going into overdrive! Instead of one Hornet every second, THREE every second are being produced, and each hive can support up to 20! To top it all off, no Hornets from opposing hives will fight eachother. Now's the time to deal some serious damage to your opponent... or maybe just to recover from some heavy losses.​

[varies]​

Hornet Man is the epitome of a camper. With the smallest amount of setup, he has a fortress in which he can heal himself and deal damage from a distance. While he CAN fight this way, you're unlikely to get much respect... to make Hornet Man realize his true potential, you'll have to stray away from the nest.

When you first start the Brawl, set up a Hive as soon as you can. While you may not be defenseless without Hornets, you can sure defend yourself easier with them. Keep the foes away from the Nest at all costs at this early stage, especially if they have ANY fire attacks. Use your UTilt and BThrow to manage this, or even give them some Honey to keep them occupied. Whatever you do, DON'T plant Flower Gardens at this time, or the opponent will be able to pick them off one by one.

Once you have one or two nests readied, it's time to go on the offensive. Call some Hornets to your side with your Dash Attack, and do your worst. UAirs will rack up damage nicely, even if they do knock off several of your Hornets. Your best bet for damaging the foe is to anger the Hornets yourself, and then knock them into their range. This, however, will weaken your own abilities to control the Hornets, since they won't listen to you while aggressive... ah, well. Sometimes it's a risk you have to take.

While the foe is under attack by Hornets, you may want to take the time to set up another hive, out of range, along with a Flower Garden. This will be your Honey Hive, and you can return to it at any time to reap the spoils of your Hornets' labor.

All in all, Hornet Man is all about keeping the foes occupied with your Hornets while you do the dirty work of giving them a space to live and something to do. It's an unrewarding job; your tenants won't even stick up for you if you're under attack; but they'll listen to your every command and even provide you with a sweet reward occasionally. Keep them alive, and they'll keep you alive.​

Vs. Raven: 20/80, Raven’s favor

Playing against Raven is like pitting two snipers against eachother…and Raven’s the better of the two. In order to fight back, Hornet Man is going to have to approach Raven… and she has plenty of tools to deal with approachers. The fact that you’re thinking about approaching probably means there’s something wrong with this matchup anyway. In addition, she can set up a DTilt directly in front of a hive, potentially destroying it if you forget about the patch of darkness on your way to nab some honey. Still, overreliance on this technique can be Raven’s downfall as well… eventually, the area will be full of aggressive Hornets.​

Vs. Vaati: 80/20, Hornet Man’s favor

While Vaati may seem to be the ultimate counter to Hornet Man at first, since he can easily blow any number of Hornets away, the fact of the matter is that no matter HOW many times he blows them away, they’ll just keep coming right back. Hornet Man can abuse his Hornets’ aggressive nature in this matchup…if he attacks a couple Hornets from each Beehive, (and you’re going to want a few hives to beat Vaati, unless you want this matchup to drag on forever), and then runs out of their range, the Hornets will race after the nearest available target… Vaati himself. Once you get a couple on Vaati, the fight’s about over. Keep swarming him and you’ll have no trouble with this matchup.​

Vs. Baby Mario Bros: 30/70, Baby Mario Bros. favor

While Hornet Man has the range, power, and priority to devastate the babies, their saving grace is their Side Special. With Hornet Man’s poor grab, all it’s going to take is one Fire Bros. for them to charge right through Hornet Man’s defenses, destroying all the Hornets they touch and setting the Hive on fire. Still, if Hornet Man can hold them off until there are enough Hornets around, he should be able to keep them airborne long enough to get them to KO %’s, with their weak aerial game.​

Up Taunt

Hornet Man’s left and right Honeycombs pop open, and a single Hornet flies from one into the other, while Hornet Man follows it with his eyes. When it reaches the other side, both Honeycombs close again, and Hornet Man is ready for battle. This has the slightest amount of mindgame potential, as the foe may momentarily think you have more Hornets than you actually do.​

Side Taunt

Hornet Man pulls out a watering can from Hammerspace, and waters the ground in front of him for half a second.​

Down Taunt

The stinger on Hornet Man’s head suddenly glistens in the light, and a thin vein of poison runs down it. This poison evaporates nearly instantly, but will still leave a faint purple line.​

Bonus! A look inside Hornet Man's development...[/quote]

 

[Pikaville]

I think the whole point of the thread is really play melee....

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

What, johns? I don't see any.
It's bull****, but that's about it. I don't get your logic saying it's johns.
Johns are excuses for losing. Saying Chaingrabs are bull**** ain't anything near it. Not like we're saying we're losing because they suck. We just hate 'em.



I agree.

Stop johning. You need to pick up a secondary character that doesn't get infinited by D3 and you'll be fine.

 

[shinyspoon42]

I don't really get why ICs are so praised for their CG's, everyone seems to think its ok because they take skill, but I can pick them up in less then a day, and learn to pull off the guaranteed kill. If its because of their crappy grab range, they have some sick nasty desynchs to land a grab, and they will keep the pressure on you until they manage to get a grab, and then they won that stock.

D3 is just really, really, easy. First try and anyone can pick it up, and he can infinite some characters to completely render the matches unwinnable.

Falco and other % based CGs are generally accepted better because they don't **** as hard.

Grab release CGs aren't exactly liked or disliked, because they don't do too much damage and they take a long time.

Brawls community (thats us!) is focused on winning, not flashiness, so we get things like camping and CGs because at the end of the day, it will help you win. Chaingrabs are part of the game, deal with it.

 

[Blackshadow]

Chaingrabs punish one mistake and can cause up to 40% damage (or death), with no chance of escaping through DI, and is very easy to pull off. Unlike in Melee, where one mistake with higher tier characters can lead into combos that make up the difference, Brawl punishment with most characters consists of a hit or two. Not to mention that almost all of Melee's chaingrabs are escapable if you mix up your DI.

 

[gm jack]

Chaingrabs punish one mistake and can cause up to 40% damage (or death), with no chance of escaping through DI, and is very easy to pull off. Unlike in Melee, where one mistake with higher tier characters can lead into combos that make up the difference, Brawl punishment with most characters consists of a hit or two. Not to mention that almost all of Melee's chaingrabs are escapable if you mix up your DI.

That's still player failure. It's just a bit more interactive.

 

[Blackshadow]

No, it's character failure, or character imbalance, actually. Anyone in this game with a chaingrab has a much easier time punishing one mistake with a moderate amount of inescapable damage, while characters without chaingrabs need to exploit more mistakes to make up the difference in damage. Whilst this concept was somewhat balanced in Melee (most chaingrabs could be escaped, characters without chaingrabs could combo and tech-chase to make up the difference), its imbalanced in Brawl.

 

[Naraku]

Say Chain garbing wasn't in this game. Explain to me what would change.

 

[superyoshi888]

Say Chain garbing wasn't in this game. Explain to me what would change.

Ice Climbers would drop, seeing how it's a major part of their game. Falco MIGHT drop a spot, along with Dedede....and maybe DK would rise a spot. That's pretty much it, but it still majorly affects one character....being the ICs. So I don't really understand the point of this post.

 

[Naraku]

Ice Climbers would drop, seeing how it's a major part of their game. Falco MIGHT drop a spot, along with Dedede....and maybe DK would rise a spot. That's pretty much it, but it still majorly affects one character....being the ICs. So I don't really understand the point of this post.

If CG was gone wouldn't there be more players of the characters who are effected by CG tho?

 

[uhmuzing]

I'm beginning to see alot of the points the "anti-CG's" say.

 

[REL38]

If CG was gone wouldn't there be more players of the characters who are effected by CG tho?

Not really.

Those who are serious about competing would participate regardless of the CG being banned or not.

(with obvious exceptions)

Character representation would remain about the same as those rep'n the ones affected most by the CG are still gonna place regardless.

If anything, it's allowing those affected by the CG to have the best of the best to rep them.

Besides, Tourney attendence would only have a very slight increase.

w/e

 

[JUDGE]

don't get grabbed

 

[Naraku]

don't get grabbed

For real?

10char

 

[REL38]

For real?

10char

More like:

"No Johns

Don't get grabbed

Play to Win"

 

[Naraku]

More like:

"No Johns

Don't get grabbed

Play to Win"

Don't get grabbed sounds kinda kool. But it seem just like its missing something.

 

[superyoshi888]

Ar... I think it be "Play Meta Knight and Don't get Grabbed. I could be wrong, but I be doubting that.

Why ain't ye lubbers talkin' like pirates? Yar....

 

[JOE!]

"dont get grabbed"- easier said....thats about it.

why do you think the CGer chatracters go over ways to setup into grabs?