Why choose Y. Link over Link?

[Ryaneatworld]

This thread certainly picked up. All I have to say is Y Link DOES do better against Good Foxes, because good Foxes Infinite Waveshine to shine spike Link. ALOT.

 

[Aesir]

This thread certainly picked up. All I have to say is Y Link DOES do better against Good Foxes, because good Foxes Infinite Waveshine to shine spike Link. ALOT.

Wrong so utterly wrong -_-

waveshine is di-able gg sir.

 

[Ryaneatworld]

more like die-able.

 

[Aesir]

more like di-able just because you can't DI it doesn't mean no one else can.

 

[Brookman]

gg sir.

Stop saying that! It bugs me for some reason.

more like die-able.

the only way you can get killed by being wave-shined off the stage is if you double jump into a shine spike. Link does have it a little rough off the stage vs a good fox, but there is no reason for you to get killed by wave-shines. If you don't dj into a shine spike you can survive, and even if you do you can DI the shine spike and potentially hook shot. You could up b early to thwart the shine spike (potentially?). So no johns kid.

 

[Ryaneatworld]

If you play a good fox you'd know, if they can waveshine fast enough its an infinite combo.

 

[Brookman]

WAVESHINING only lasts as far as the stage, unless they are doing the cross-over reverse waveshine infinite, which is retardedly hard, and stupid/useless anyway. Also, you neglected to address the part where you mentioned link dying off the stage because of waveshine into a shine spike. What good foxes are out in oregon again? OOPS, none.

 

[Cort]

I double jump into shine spikes all the time. Therefore, Young Link does better against Fox than Link does.

 

[Ryaneatworld]

LOL because Oregon sucks.

 

[Deva]

Don't know, but from my experiences, the only trouble I've had with Fox's waveshine is waveshine > up-smash. Nothing you can do but DI and hope you don't die. waveshine > grab > upthrow > U-air isn't that bad since you can DI away from it at high percents, and waveshine off the edge has never been a problem since you can DI towards the ledge when you approach it, grab the ledge and start ledge hop U-air combos on the Fox. lol, I've actually scared the Fox I play into U-Smshing me before reching the edge for fear of the U-airs. Maybe there's something he can do to get me off the edge he doesn't know about, though I learned the trick from match I saw between Azen's Link and Chillin's Fox so I believe it's a good way to avoid the waveshine>shine spike.

 

[btk Ace]

WAVESHINING only lasts as far as the stage, unless they are doing the cross-over reverse waveshine infinite, which is retardedly hard, and stupid/useless anyway. Also, you neglected to address the part where you mentioned link dying off the stage because of waveshine into a shine spike. What good foxes are out in oregon again? OOPS, none.

Noobert.
thats all I have to say about that

congradualtions Ryan you made a huge topic
good Job

anyways
Y.Link has better Projectiles, wavedash and is faster
He aslo probley does better against some high teirs characters such as peach and sheik
but I think Link is an all around better character
hes basicly more efficent then Y.Link
Y.Link could be used to face a Peach
but other than that Link is a better chose of character

 

[Aesir]

Lol no y.link doesn't do better agianst sheik then link does. unless you think dying earlier is a good thing. lolz

 

[SuPeRCuSsIoN]

three words...speed over power

 

[Ryaneatworld]

Noobert.
thats all I have to say about that

congradualtions Ryan you made a huge topic
good Job

anyways
Y.Link has better Projectiles, wavedash and is faster
He aslo probley does better against some high teirs characters such as peach and sheik
but I think Link is an all around better character
hes basicly more efficent then Y.Link
Y.Link could be used to face a Peach
but other than that Link is a better chose of character

Thank you for the kudos. And yeah I like how you give reasons and your opinion instead of bashing other opinions of people like everyone else.

 

[btk Ace]

three words...speed over power

that is a good point
Y Link does have speed
and speed does seem to be more important in most situations
but Y.link isnt balenced enough
he doesnt really have any finishing moves like Link does
which is a big problem

but Speed is a great thing

also speed is the reason why I think Y link does better against sheik than Link
but still can't finish her off

 

[Aesir]

sheik grabs y.link at 0 chain grabs to 70%, then gets you in a tilt combo the fairs you off the stage around 90ish, then edge guards you you die around 130ish%

sheik grabs link at 0 chain grabs to about I dunno 80? gets in in a tilt combo the fairs off the stage at about 120 edge guards you die roughly around 160. depending.

this is if the sheik is nice.

now if the sheik is mean.

tilt combos you link fairs off stage around 70% edge gaurds you die around the same percent just this is alot faster.


link can survive longer with good DI longer then y.link can. So please don't argue about this stuff with me, I know the sheik vs link match up better then I know when my birthday is. =\

edit: sad thing is, sheik doesn't even need to CG, all she has to do is tilt and fair you off the stage and keep you off. >_> link can survive well beyond 150% due to his weight. then again its situational you can live to like 200 sometimes, or hell die at 10%.

 

[Brookman]

sheik doesn't even need to cg to **** link/y.link. It most certainly makes things a lot easier though.

"Noobert.
thats all I have to say about that"

Not a very good response.

Also, young Link doesn't do better than link in anything, just less bad.

 

[brdy_]

Y-link is better. I can play a Big-Link, but the differences in versatility between Young Link and his older form are undeniable. Y-Link lacks the spikes and raw power, but he's fast and he's stout. He isn't as user-friendly because of his lag (that has to be dealt with) but a good Y-link can take the lag cuts and run with them, turning L-canceling into an art form.

btw, the smashers in that video aren't that good, they just stall, and bomb recov is actually not consistent enough to be good, just use link's ridiculous recovery abilities to get back on, better than popping your own bomb and maybe giving you enemy a chance to jump off and spike you- making all that trouble totally not worth it. just up b or R+hookshot

Did you just say Aniki isn't good? It may be a couple years ago, but Aniki is the ****.

Don't know, but from my experiences, the only trouble I've had with Fox's waveshine is waveshine > up-smash.

Your experiences aren't against a good fox..... but I guess that's besides the point.

Oh and Brookman... Less bad IS better. But I think you know that.

 

[Chip.]

All right, from what I've mentioned from my last post, it seems everyone has gotten like a gizzilion posts in here.

I don't want to bother going over and quoting everyone and just trying to disprove/clear up any junk.


So I just kind've skimmed through everything:

Aesir said something like "my post had no logic" or something like that. You also wanted a Sheik vs. Young Link mm, you say? Ok, but we bump it up to be for 100$.... that is if your so confident with your inexperienced Sheik?/sarcasm/ lol whatevs.

Buzz said "I don't know how to fight Marths and Falcos".....?

................ >_>...............k..


Cort was summarizing my post with somehting like "Young Link happy chambers!!!!" and what not and other stuff I didn't fully bother/care to read whatever it was.

Brookman was being random/funney with his posts, yet again, but was still pertaining to the topic, for the most part. Yaaay, Brookman ^_^

..But made an earlier post that was addressed "Dear Chip" (I think) but was utterly nonsensical, untrue, long, and boring. No offense...

Deva and Aesir get into a debate of better top tier matchups which was, lol, quite interesting to read. Basically, Deva said relatively what I was going too, just didn't have the time to.... thanx? ^_^

Brdy, your sig, it's very cool but something about it is just.. eerie.


More or less other people just posted their own ideas.



..I think that's everthing, right?


...





But the thing you have to remember when fighting Sheik with Young Link is that she can actually only start chaingrabbing at 30-40%, not 0% like what Aesir stated...>_>. Weight? Weight isn't the de facto that will decide who does better in this matchup; it's just one thing. Young Link's advantage with speed allows him to keep up with Sheik's speed in the battle and not get murdered by it like with Link. Link is slow and doesn't match as well with this since he is just as floaty as Young Link and can be comboed with f-tilts, and other moves, just as bad. If you get hit by a Sheik fair, your still going to die fairly fast even with Link, just because of the maginitude of this attack. Now while Young Link may die slightly faster than Link, however, Young Link will be able to execute his combos faster and better and thus killing Sheik faster as well. Since in this fight that all your doing is spaming to keep her away before she gets close to you, Young Link would get the most outve this strategy than Link would. Young Link can dish in combos all day long while Link has to have distance and physical game as two separate things. Don't get me wrong, Young Link still does fairly sucky against her too, just not as bad as Link.

Fox is, well, a very fun matchup for Link ^_^. Fox's super speed can cause wonders of how well he can apply pressure to you, but even if Young Link's faster it still does him no good against Fox in this matchup at all. Basically, waveshine is bad for Link but not incredibly, like Deva said, just DI towards the edge. The only thing Young Link needs to watch out for is drillshine combos->jab->usmash and combos of the similar sort. Hmm, perhaps they both do even in the matchup (bad) except it's quite a bit more annoying to fight him with Link

Young Link and Link both have hard times with Falco, but Young Link doesn't do as bad. Deva explained many reasons why... but yet again they BOTH do bad in this matchup.

Marth has ownage at small stages, both for Link and Young Link, and I admit there is hardly anything to at these stages. At FD and Dream Land, they both can do better here if you play your cards out right; Link still does slightly better than Young Link would.



And Aesir, it's not like I hate you or anything, it's just your posts made before my last one really had no logic or anything of the sort behind them. I'm sorry for degrading your mental capacity and such so I don't want any hard feelings. gg sir.

Also, young Link doesn't do better than link in anything, just less bad.

Brookman, that just proved another big point in the long run that I was trying to make, sorry bro. "Less bad" just means "doing better", just in a different way of saying it.

 

[Brookman]

Chip, you're bad at posting, and should probably stop.

Dear Chip,

Judging by your level of reasoning and some fo your responses to what people have said in this discussion it's quite apparent that you lack a great deal of experience i this game and in life in general. "Undoubtedly you don't know what you're talking about" and "I know more than you do in this debate of "who's better." You most certainly displayed your knowledge of debate and smash in your post so very well there is not too much one could do to refute your points, if they were brain dead.

You start off by insulting Aiser. The mark of a true thinker, for certain you must have many years of experience debating, and several in smash. Claiming to know more than anyone else who has posted and then responding so poorly to points, or just completely ignoring them demonstrates your vast amounts of knowledge. In regards to Aiser's first point that you quoted: Link at the TOP OF THE LOW TIER. THIS MEANS LINK IS MISSING PLENTY OF THE QUALITIES THAT MAKE HIGHER RANKED CHARACTERS SO GOOD. If you quite a few places downward you'll see that Young link is where? BELOW LINK. Meaning he is, you may have guessed it, worse than his older counter-part. I had a good laugh when you talked about reasoning, and how bad Aiser's was.

Claiming to be tired is a pathetic John. If you want to say silly things, don't John about them afterward. The only advantage ylink has over link in the sheik match up is that he dies faster off the top, which means Sheik ends his suffering much faster than Link's. Aiser's sig is more of a joke than anything, it's not like he has some blood-thirsty hatred for a video game character. Though I do congradulate you on yet another high-class assumption. Chip, I fail to see how you could have played any good fox players when they all live on the East coast (Read: KDJ, PC. M2K). In regards to the (y)Link vs Falco match up, I don't see how Young Link having a superior (though annoying at best) range game matters in the least vs. Falco. You must think Falco can only laser camp or something. A good Falco player will run you down and murder you, and potentially **** your fragile frame Young Link has very little hope against Falco, he may as well just jump off the stage and down air.

I scroll down to the next section and see an insult. NICE!AN ENTIRE SENTENCE DEVOTED TO INSULTING AISER, EXTRA NICE!. Link vs. Falcon is definitely pretty even. It doesn't matter if Aiser ever plays young Link because him playing Young Link doesn't (DOES NOT) Dictate anything in regards to a match up. Niether does anything you acheive in any random match-up. Chu uses Young Link cause he is a cute little boy who sexes up the older women (Peach). Chu is just reminded of himself. In all honesty, the fact that Chu plays Young Link as a peach counter doesn't make Young Link better. Link does just as well vs. Peach, I like how you just assume Chu thinks Young Link is better -.- . I really like how all the people you named have never placed well in a tournament using strictly Young Link, or beaten any good players.

I like how you totally ignore all my posts, then tell me no one cares about my posts after typing an absurdly long-winded and inane post.The best part is when you tell the "young Link guys" to not listen. "Cover your ears! Don't listen to them!! Like when Sephiroth is telling the truth to Cloud and Tifa begs him not to listen. I can't bear to read any further, because now you've started talking about "Logic" which is just silly.

But made an earlier post that was addressed "Dear Chip" (I think) but was utterly nonsensical, untrue, long, and boring. No offense...

it may be long but it's certainly not nonsensical or untrue. You just refuse to address anyone who is more intelligent/posts better.


I guess the bottom line to this is I have more experience and I play against better players than you and I know what I'm talking about, solid reason to ignore everything I say I guess.

I'll have to look into the chain grab on young Link, but I'm pretty positive Sheik can start at 0.

Onto more important business. Link weight, coupled with his far superior recovery, and ability to die off the top a lot later than young Link pretty much makes him better in any match up. Regardless of y. links speed there is still really nothing he can do against sheik. Even if she can't CG till mid-percents she can get to 30% from one or two grabs. The only thing either of the two characters can do against sheik is hope to land hits and build percent and then hope to land a strong enough hit, then hope that they can edge guard well enough to keep her off stage till she dies. While sheik can pretty much mindlessly **** both characters, without chain grabs.

I'll hopefully have the power of will to stop posting here since none of you, save a few people, have any idea what they are talking about and just ignore anything that you don't agree with, or brush it aside and label it "nonsensical" or "not very logical."

Did you just say Aniki isn't good? It may be a couple years ago, but Aniki is the ****.


Your experiences aren't against a good fox..... but I guess that's besides the point.

Oh and Brookman... Less bad IS better. But I think you know that.

Character No Direction Holding Down
Dr. Mario............13 ft.............6 ft
Mario................13 ft.............6 ft
Luigi................33 ft............15 ft
Bowser...............12 ft.............5 ft
Peach.................8 ft.............4 ft
Yoshi................12 ft.............6 ft
Donkey Kong...........9 ft.............4 ft
Captain Falcon........9 ft.............4 ft
Ganondorf............10 ft.............5 ft
Falco................falls..............5 ft
Fox..................falls..............5 ft
Ness.................14 ft.............6 ft
Ice Climbers.........25 ft............11 ft
Kirby................falls..............6 ft
Samus............... 12 ft.............5 ft
Zelda.................8 ft.............4 ft
Shiek................10 ft.............5 ft
Link..................7 ft.............3 ft
Young Link...........falls..............5 ft
Pichu................falls..............5 ft
Pikachu..............falls..............4 ft
Jigglypuff...........falls..............5 ft
Mewtwo...............falls.............10 ft
Mr. Game and Watch...falls..............8 ft
Marth................15 ft.............7 ft
Roy..................falls..............7 ft

Why even bother playing link/ylink when you can just waveshine all the characters off into a shine spike with fox?! Also, all the characters that fall down conviniently get ***** by up throw up air, so instead of drill shining I'll just drill grab. AKA y.link is really at a disadvantage from falling from the shine.

 

[Aesir]

Chip I think what you should do is have a sit down and go play some good players preferably a good sheik. The reason why sheiks don't chain grab you is because they don't have to, a good sheik won't even need to CG you it just makes this so easy its sad.

Sheik can and probably will CG you at 0% and go until 70, and by some fluke they can't really do that they'll just jab reset and grab, or they'll tech chase or something though tech chasing probably won't occur. so in any case you're gonna get grabbed then after the molest fest is over, sheiks going to start tilt juggling you then smack you off where you have no chance of coming back.

Sheik can do the exact same to link however if sheik tries killing link early it probably won't work because no matter how good your survival DI is because y.link is so light hes able to to so much faster the fact that link can live longer with survival DI is proof enough he does better. Furthermore links stronger hits allow him to knock sheik back farther if she gets close and to spam, now granted you have a point that y.link is the better spammer however, if sheik gets close its just gonna be a **** fest. Same can be be said with link but he can knock her around a bit and sets up for good juggles since they both combo each other very well.


as for your other points its just a conflict of opinion that I'm really lacking the energy to even humor.

 

[Brookman]

>_> I'm not kidding.

lrn2logic.

First point: yes she can chain grab y.link from 0 its very easy, have you even played a good sheik? <_<

No she can't

second point: Weight isn't the deciding factor however its a huge factor Weight allows for better survival DI.

Young Link can DI better than link though, which makes up for him being lighter.

Wrong Y.liniks speed is nothing compared to sheiks. Sheik can literally run laps around y.link he can't really do anything about it. Also link and y.link aren't just as floaty y.link stays in the air longer then link does.

sheik can't run laps around y.link cause his spin attack covers bother sides.

How, what combos? all sheik has to do is wack away the projectiles she can do that, her range is almost as good as marths. <_<

Yea, but if you mind games the projectiles sheik won't see them coming and will get hit, and, with the stun from the projectiles, she'll get comboed to death, since young Link is fast enough to follow her after she gets hit and keep stringing hits together.

not only that link can make it back with proper DI

Young Link can wall jump though, while link can't. See, his recovery is actually a lot worse than y. Link's.

While technically thats true you're forgetting how fast sheik is. she can easily get past your projectile spam and get inside of you easily and without your sword range that link has you can't really hope to get her out of it unless you get lucky and run away in which case she'll probably run after you.

Not logical, sorry.

It is bad cause if link is close to her he can still have a chance to land hits since the power he dishes out is much more then link added onto his range it just works out better then y.link. he can knock her back better so he can start spamming again.

Sheik can just crouch cancel into ftilt or grab, though, at higher percents your statement isn't logical.

I'm just gonna disagree with that but I'm not gonna make a fuss over it.

That's cause you know I'm right, about everything

Oh but they do >_> I'm being realistic, and pointing out that y.link is worse in match ups then link is.

then link is what? AKA not logical.

however there are some match ups where y.link does better then link.
Like say y.link vs peach. Link does very well in this match up however I just think y.link deals out damage faster to her.

Wow Aiser, congrats. That's the first logical thing you've said all topic. I'm glad you're starting to accept that y. Link is better.

edit//Aiser, your new post is highliy not very logical, so I'm not going to bother reading it or responding to it.

Young Link does better in ALL match ups than link, just cause he can control his boomerang better, his projectiles have more stun and he is faster. Young link isn't even missing a kill move, he can definitely edge guard every character in the game well enough, so if you just throw them off the stage you can keep them there without a doubt. Also, against floaty characters young Link can mind game into down air. Young link's moves aren't as powerful/have as much knock back which means he can pretty much infinite combo with up air, ESPECIALLY against fast fallers.

Y. link's sword and hookshot are both smaller, and pretty much equal in range. That means if you can hit with your sword you can grab them too, and then combo out of young link's great grab game. Link, on the other hand, has shorter range than his hook shot which means he can't hit them, even if he can grab them

Also, even though y. Link's shield is smaller, he is also smaller. If his shield were bigger he wouldn't be able to run fast, and he doesn't need it anyway, cause when he crouches he is basically invinicble. Link's spin attack is also worse, cause if it gets blocked he is vulnerable, while y.Link has multiple hits on the ground, so he can't get shield grabbed while doing it. I think the only match-up young Link doesn't do as well as Link in is Link dittoes.

 

[Aesir]

But you see link does better vs the IC because he has pants so those cold attacks don't effect him, which means he can't be freeze glitched if you add his blue tunic too all freeze attacks do 0% damage as well were as with y.link hes just to cold to run around and do anything.

 

[Deva]

Why even bother playing link/ylink when you can just waveshine all the characters off into a shine spike with fox?!

With proper DI, this rarely works. when being shined off the edge, DI towards the ledge and you will grab it. From there ledge hop U-air into U-air combos **** Fox. Watch a match between Azen's Link and Chillin's Fox if you don't believe me.

 

[turner]

uhh lol, you realize they're like one in the same right? especially in smash the more experience you have the more skilled you are as a smashers.

you do realize you can the most experience out of everyone but that doesn't mean you have teh 1337 Ub3R skillz that you talk about ive been playing since the release of smash 64 but i bet half the people on here could beat me (your attitude makes me believe your not one of these people though)that is because i dont learn tech skills cos i like to keep it simple and play like i played as a small child when first discovered it thats how i have fun so i keep with it and do surprisingly well.

 

[Aesir]

you do realize you can the most experience out of everyone but that doesn't mean you have teh 1337 Ub3R skillz that you talk about ive been playing since the release of smash 64 but i bet half the people on here could beat me (your attitude makes me believe your not one of these people though)that is because i dont learn tech skills cos i like to keep it simple and play like i played as a small child when first discovered it thats how i have fun so i keep with it and do surprisingly well.

way to not get what I was saying, everyones been playing since the 64 version, I'm talking about experience in the competative scene

edit: deva you knowhow old those matches are? lol

 

[Plairnkk]

I love how chus ranked and plank isn't.

Do I need to be blunt? >_> skill > counters thats how it works and I've never gone against that.

those matches aren't even to be taken serious, im sick of people referring to them. i intentionally didnt DI ANYTHING so i could get more moneymatches at smashtality (tourney coming up) and it worked.

i've beaten chu in multiple $20 MM's vs his pichu and his ylink and anything but his ic's, so screw u guys

 

[Aesir]

those matches aren't even to be taken serious, im sick of people referring to them. i intentionally didnt DI ANYTHING so i could get more moneymatches at smashtality (tourney coming up) and it worked.

i've beaten chu in multiple $20 MM's vs his pichu and his ylink and anything but his ic's, so screw u guys

lawl plank is an *** with mm's

 

[Kanzaki]

I didn't read anything. I got 2 stocked my DSF's Link! =/

 

[btk Ace]

young Link can mind game into down air.

Brookman you can't say that Young Link can mind game into anything
Mindgames are all on the skill of the player
Saying Y.Link can mind game into down air
is like saying "Link can Mindgame into 4 stock"
it matters whos playing
nothing about that character

 

[Aesir]

man look it those mindgames brookman administered I'm impressed

 

[Brookman]

Link can mind game into four stock though >_>

 

[El_LoVo]

Link does better than ylink vs sheik. if you know what you're doing at least.

 

[btk Ace]

Link can mind game into four stock though >_>

Anikis Link can mindgame into **** = 4 stock
just the way life works

 

[turner]

aesir how wrong could you be i know plenty of people who never played the n 64's version and if you mean tourny people then thats just bull aswell i can guarantee that there will be people alot better than alot of the people who play in tournaments that could kick thier ***'s and they didnt play the original

 

[Aesir]

aesir how wrong could you be i know plenty of people who never played the n 64's version and if you mean tourny people then thats just bull aswell i can guarantee that there will be people alot better than alot of the people who play in tournaments that could kick thier ***'s and they didnt play the original

>_> okay I was exaggerating it a bit. but a lot of people have been playing since the original just because you've been playing a while doesn't mean you're good. if you have tourney experience thats generally thats what skill is based off of.

and if you're implying that theres people outside the tourney scene that can beat some of the top players I think you should think a little bit before you post lol.

 

[turner]

im not saying there is im not saying there isnt in the end we have no idea who plays smash so that is un answerable if you think it through which you obviously didnt

and you obviously didnt read my post else you would have realized that i said im not skillfull and ive been playing it since the release of the original

so learn to read before you post again

 

[Aesir]

im not saying there is im not saying there isnt in the end we have no idea who plays smash so that is un answerable if you think it through which you obviously didnt

Lol its pretty answerable actually, unless they have tourney experience chances are they suck.

and you obviously didnt read my post else you would have realized that i said im not skillfull and ive been playing it since the release of the original

You're obviously not understanding what I'm saying, you may be experience as a casual player however, the type of experience I'm talking about is competative experience. Do you understand now?

 

[turner]

oh my god you are the biggest **** wit on this forum you automatically assume that because they aren't in tournaments that their ****, that just shows how mentally closed off and ******** you are

 

[Brookman]

With proper DI, this rarely works. when being shined off the edge, DI towards the ledge and you will grab it. From there ledge hop U-air into U-air combos **** Fox. Watch a match between Azen's Link and Chillin's Fox if you don't believe me.

THAT is exactly why link is so good vs. fox.

Brookman you can't say that Young Link can mind game into anything
Mindgames are all on the skill of the player
Saying Y.Link can mind game into down air
is like saying "Link can Mindgame into 4 stock"
it matters whos playing
nothing about that character

Right, excellent players with excellent mind games can mind game everyone so hard that it doesn't matter what the characters are, and then the tier list stops existing too.

man look it those mindgames brookman administered I'm impressed

You aren't an excellent player with excellent mmind games. you wouldn't know excellent mind games if they combo'd you into an up air juggle.

Link does better than ylink vs sheik. if you know what you're doing at least.

Pichu is top tier, if you know what you're doing at least., cause when you mind game the tier list doesn't matter

Anikis Link can mindgame into **** = 4 stock
just the way life works

LOL.

All of turner's posts

LOL.