Why are level 9 cpu's impossible to beat?

[Davy Jones]

This is true, just like the AI in Mortal Kombat 2. The moment you press the button, the AI trys to come up with a move to counter it.

Yes, it usually uses dodge.

The only Time I loose to Ai 9 is when it gets powerfull items, or when I play olimar on edgeless stages (most custom)

 

[Fatmanonice]

The level 9 CPU in Brawl also has retardedly good reaction time which is what drives me nuts about some of them. For example, when the CPU can perfect shield four or five of Kirby/Captain Falcon's jabs in a row, shield grab you out of the edge of DK/King Dedede's ftilt, or get a "third jump" when you try to edgeguard them because they can perfectly time the "invisible footstool" during your attack, you know that they made their reaction time a little too good. Overall, the only level 9s I consider "hard" though are Pit and Luigi mainly because it seems that that my computer has figured out how to edgeguard (I hate to admit it but I've actually been double footstooled by Pit before), reverse grab, and how to buffer most attacks. Despite this, I usually only lose if I screw up royally and die at like 20% on one of the stock. I think it has a lot to do with how often I play against the computer since my wifi sucks balls and no longer have time to compete or even host tournaments.

 

[Sigrid Fiinikkusu]

I don't find most level 9 cpu's particularly hard just annoying because of their reaction time. They always seem to fail to keep their shield up against Lucarios Dair and Ftilt because of the double hit properties of those attacks.

 

[★Chaos★]

impossible to beat? at first i lose to them easily but now i can 2-3 stock them every single time

me too.the times i lost were because i just got it and were used to melee.now i dominate like wally said.

 

[Kaffei]

I was fighting a CPU at Temple because I was bored, and every time I hit it at like 200%, it kept teching my hits. I was trying to see how much it could tech. Around 350%

 

[SSBA]

I was fighting a CPU at Temple because I was bored, and every time I hit it at like 200%, it kept teching my hits. I was trying to see how much it could tech. Around 350%

their teching beats, its usually slips my mind when i get hit that i can tech out of it, but not theres.
but some level nines are pretty rough like MK and snake
unlike when u used to obliterate pichu in melee..

 

[GHNeko]

how is this thread still alive? xd

 

[SpongeJordan]

I just spike them. Just about every character has one, and they ALWAYS follow you off the stage.

 

[Hyesz]

ROFL, in Melee the CPU level 9 like BUFFERMETEORCANCEL everything.

 

[theunabletable]

^In Melee CPUs used their jab to solve everything.

 

[JUDGE]

how is this thread still alive? xd

xDDD
i was thinkin' the sme^^
guys, lv9 are incredible easy
they airdodge everytime after they got hit
abuse this and punish
and! they die incredible fast due to the fact that they won't DI and momentum cancel
i don't see why people can't defeat them xDD

 

[Ajna]

I never lose to a solo computer anymore... i dont really find them that challenging in comparison to a real person.

 

[MarioMariox2]

^In Melee CPUs used their jab to solve everything.

CPU LVL 9s: >80% Meteor-cancel success rate Effective use of jabs to jablock and even EDGEGUARD? Man, those are tourney-worthy skills.

We need more pros like this lol.

 

[phantomphungus]

Level 9s are incredibly easy for me, but that's probably because I don't have many friends who like to play, nor who are as good as me. Therefore, I almost only practice on them.

 

[MarioMariox2]

Level 9s are incredibly easy for me, but that's probably because I don't have many friends who like to play, nor who are as good as me. Therefore, I almost only practice on them.

IMO, their difficulty also lies in how you're trying to play them.

Using only spaced smash attacks and waiting for a dash-grab fail from them = LVL 9s are noob.

Trying to play legitimately with edgeguarding, attempting to combo and such may lead to a more difficult (even if slightly) opponent.

 

[BEES]

level 9s discourage ATs

 

[phantomphungus]

We all know that... :\
And... Why does it mean that I'm a n00b if I beat level 9s? I mean, sure, I sometimes hit them when they fail a dash grab, but I don't just WAIT for it. I fight them ALMOST how I fight everybody else.

 

[★Chaos★]

I never lose to a solo computer anymore... i dont really find them that challenging in comparison to a real person.

me too! know i only use cpu's when warming up or to practice with a character before wifi.

 

[Aibou]

I usually play a CPU for fun. I'd pick one of my crappy characters, pick a wild stage, and maybe turn some items on. Like today, I played a C. Falcon with Sonic, turned Smash Balls on, and made the game 5 stock. I suck with Sonic but his final smash helped me win by a landslide.

 

[★Chaos★]

for some reason i can't go straight into a battle on wifi without warming up with a lv9 cpu.don't know why.maybe it's just a habit.lol

 

[MarioMariox2]

How to beat Lvl 9 CPUs: Sandbag on ALL characters and all Lvl9s will get those bad habits :D

 

[★Chaos★]

lv 9's are basically computers that record your battle habits. do what mariomanx2 said

 

[KingSlimeKnight]

Brawl+ Lvl.9 > Brawl Lvl.9

It is possible to beat them, but not all the time, and they usually perfect shield most attacks or roll, they don't side step as much and some lvl.9 characters are easier to gimp. They airdodge after their super DI so sometimes throwing them off the stage works with heavier characters. They suck at recovering from a strong spike. Moving stages are your friend. Strongest character for CPU? It's a character that has a very good recovery but annoying. I don't know, but I hate Mario...stupid cape won't let me Ganoncide.

 

[Naota489]

I haven't fought any lvl 9's on brawl, but i used to fly through them on melee

 

[Damien = God]

Lvl 9's aren't too terribly difficult. I can beat them easily one on one. It's when I add in more it gets difficult. I can win 3/4 of the time against three of them, no teams. Maybe less, who knows. You ever try to fight three of them on a team? Dang...

 

[AuraStUrm]

The problem with training against level 9's (taken from Typh's essay) is that they have practically superhuman reflexes that are rarely encountered in the real world. They will, most of the time, easily perfect shield or roll out of the way of your attacks and counter. That said, they don't know how to DI or momentum cancel either, so they are still generally much easier than actual human opponents. The advice that Typh gave in the same essay is to practice against level 8's if you need to play against computers, and practicing against humans is the best way to go - playing a real brain is always better than a simulated one. So when I need to, I generally practice against level 8's, but I try to play against humans (no matter how awful) whenever I can.

 

[NeoTLkid]

Brawl = easy lvl 9s
Brawl+ = cpu god mode
and if you play spammy they get worse,

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

._. this is by far the most scrub-tastic thread ever

 

[Woozle]

 

[PurDi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLyiu8QcUA


They learn. It's scary sometimes...

 

[MarioMariox2]

We all used to be scrubs, so it's okay. Even Ken. He didn't want 64 at first but became the king of Melee.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

We all used to be scrubs, so it's okay. Even Ken. He didn't want 64 at first but became the king of Melee.

I agree. Everyone started out with practically no knowledge of ATs.

 

[liljp112]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdtQxUUcVGY&feature=related

taunt cancel and insult to injury????
too good

 

[TCRhade]

They're not impossible to beat. I once three-stocked a Lv. 9 Samus with Wario. Come to think of it, they're kinda repetitive. If they have projectiles, they're more than likely to spam them. They dodge a lot too, but that's not a problem.

Might be because of this button reading code I've heard about on SmashWiki.

 

[NEWCOMER: Shadow Kirby]

Your concerns are entirely justified in Brawl+: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGem5mFTAzU

Brawl+ enemy difficulty is a godsend.


Anyway, to be perfectly on-topic...Level 9 CPU's don't seem to hard to me; at least, not to my Kirby, Lucario, Falco, ICs, and Olimar...others, probably a different story.

Just keep practicing. And, like others have said, it's best to fight them without items.

I will agree, level 9's do have the upper hand; if they were more intelligent, they'd be godly. The reason that they have the upper hand is that, while humans naturally have more than five-frame delay before they can fully comprehend what to do, CPUs are part of the game, and therefore immediately sense what is happening...makes 'em Powershield like teh proz.

 

[ace156]

so if they learn button inputs and such howcome the snake on my file doesnt ever DACUS or grenade insta-throw. since those are button inputs that they should be able to read and repeat....

not trying to start a war, but im 99% sure that the CPU's dont actually learn anything from us.

erase your brawl data, start over and watch as the lvl9CPU's practice the same stuff they did before you erased your data.

 

[XxMurderingQu33nXx]

lvl 9's havent been that challenging to me as far as I can remeber. When I first faced one I thought "This isnt to hard they should bump it up a little" but if its hard for you to figure out for one Id strongly suggsest not playing with items beacsue they can come up with osme pretty facy strategies with those. And 2nd you might wanna start at like lvl 7 and work your way up after say 2 or 3 matches?.

 

[HailCrest]

Mainly because computers react to your button presses. Yup, they are looking at what buttons you're pressing and can react in a few frames decided by the devs who programmed the CPU's. Level 9's can react in one frame. Yes, they have powershielded all of my zamus' jabs before, all three hits. Level 3's are closest to a human's reaction time, 14-15 frames.

Even then my Lucas can beat them 90% of the time, meh.

For some reason I find a level 9 Mario harder than a level 9 Luigi. He uses his cape and fireballs too well.

 

[GooseMainsDiddy]

CPU's find things that work but they won't copy your inputs. Let's assume that a character has a fair that combos directly into another fair. If you do this a lot the CPU will learn that it is a good idea to fair close to you because it has good combo potential. The CPU won't combo but you will see it use fair a lot more. It's like chain grabs. They process that Chain Grabs can set you up well but no matter how many times you chain him, he won't repeat. All he will do is use that grab more and move on from there.
Basically they experiment on what works but will never copy things that are too advanced for them.

So yes, they do learn from your actions but they aren't really smart enough to copy you. All I know is that if I play them alot, it becomes very hard to get banana trips on them because they powershield them constantly. Their reactions get really annoying eventually.

 

[Planet Mars]

They can be devious at times, but usually i just end up laughing at their pathetic attempts. The most formidable level 9's are Jigglypuff, Lucas, Toon Link, Link, Olimar, Snake, and Ike. There are a few more, but most of the rest are just pushovers.

A good tip is to start at level 5's and work your way up. Do a stock match with 3 lives, 3 minute time limit on final destination with no items. Once you can beat 3 level 5's in a free for all match, increase the level up. If you're having trouble winning against 3 other CPUs, drop it down to 2 or a 1v1 match.

Eventually you'll be able to beat a level 7 CPU in a 1v1 match. Then you'll progress up until you get to 9. Now the best way to beat a 9 is to study how they fight. Try watching some CPU only matches. The only disadvantage about CPU only matches is they seem to want to hug each other instead of beat each other up at times. Don't worry--that's what the time limit is for.

I started my training by doing a free for all match against level 5s with 99 lives in Hyrule Temple, back in the days of melee. Now i can beat 5s without getting damage. It just takes practice, and you have to set up your matches accordingly to make sure you aren't putting too much of a challenge on yourself. Another good practice is doing Classic mode on various difficulties. Once you find the difficulty that you can't beat, fight those level CPUs. The highest difficulty only has a few level 9 CPUs--most are level 8s.

Again, it just takes practice. If you've already chosen your main guy that you want to master, then all you have to do is practice, and practice, and practice, until you can beat 3 level 9s on a team against you.

Oh and by the way, don't EVER put items on until you can beat your CPUs without them. Items give them an advantage, and if you become accustomed to playing with them on, you'll be at a disadvantage when they aren't available. It's better to learn with them off, then learn them, instead of vice versa