WHOBO 3!! 3/18-20/2011!! Livestream: http://brawlstream.vgbootcamp.com/

[Ghostbone]

Why do you think the Smash Workshop was created? It's not like the problems in Brawl aren't capable of being patched, it's that no one wants to play with the patches.

Brawl hacks will never become standard, like ever.

And I even wish Project M would, but there's like a 99% chance it will at most just become a small side event at major tourneys.

 

[Zigsta]

Brawl won't die just because an Olimar got planked out by a DK. Don't blow this out of proportion.

 

[Slashy]

Brawl hacks will never become standard, like ever.

And I even wish Project M would, but there's like a 99% chance it will at most just become a small side event at major tourneys.

I never said it would, I know people won't play these mods despite all the issues Brawl faces in competitive play (Though Project:M isn't really a fix to Brawl, Brawl+ and Brawl- are better examples of that)

Also when fighting Metaknight, Mario Bros. should be a legal stage as a counterpick.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Brawl won't die just because an Olimar got planked out by a DK. Don't blow this out of proportion.

didnt say that

brawl will die if this stupid rule stays in place


that i can promise you.

no ones going to want to play this ****.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Also when fighting Metaknight, Mario Bros. should be a legal stage as a counterpick.

HEAVILY SUPPORT.

Mario Bros. is the best stage in the game.

 

[Ghostbone]

didnt say that

brawl will die if this stupid rule stays in place


that i can promise you.

Brawl will die if we don't arbitrarily buff characters like Falco and Olimar?

I doubt this

 

[Chuee]

I'm sorry but...Will used something that he knew he could take advantage of. To Will, I say: Good ****, because you're playing to win. To you I say: It happens, it's a bad rule, I agree. But it happened, and didn't everybody see the rules before they showed up?

I would say so.

You use a character who can beat it (anyone with a projectile they can throw downwards or put a large hitbox over the ledge), which quite a large variety of characters can, who also happen to beat DK normally. The same way how you beat IC's by not using ganondorf, apply the same process here. I'm not being sarcastic, the CP system exists for a reason and if you choose a character who has a severely bad matchup vs another once they get the lead and then complain about losing, thats your own damn fault.

So you're saying people should learn a new character just to deal with planking?

Course I'm not saying planking should be allowed, Ive been arguing it should be outright banned for years lol. But people knew the rules before they entered and they agreed to them the instant they paid the entry fee.

That doesn't mean you can't complain about it being a bad ruleset.

Read the 3rd sentence. Please read my whole post before responding to it.

I did, I was referring to the first part of that.

I can't believe people still play Brawl for fun.

How about, rather than *****ing about every single part of the game (stages, Meta Knight, camping, planking, scrooging, etc...) you either:

a) Use a character who can abuse said tactic

or

b) Don't play

once again suggesting we play entirely new characters to deal with planking...........

Oh, and just thought I should bring up the irony (if it hasn't already been brought up) of an Olimar main complaining about gay tactics.

Olimar isn't even that gay lmao.
At least not as gay as planking.
EDIT: @ghostbone: More like nerfing half of high tier.

 

[TeeVee]

wow lmao, are people really discussing this?

yea will was not at fault cause he didnt break the rules

but this is not about what rich said to will

or whether or not what will did was right.

the problem is the stupid *** ruleset, and the braindead people whoever created that ruleset.

this cannot happen again.

or brawl will die very very soon.
the game is already defensive enough, why the **** would you allow everyone but mk infinite planking options?

there are some characters that by their design, cannot handle planking.

so if this stupid ruleset stands, some tiers, as well as MU's, need to be changed immediately.

we've had the lgl so long people forgot why it was implemented. it was not because "oh this is gay and matches are too slow" it was because "in theory once metaknight gains the lead, there is no way to get the lead back if he stays on the ledge". brawl is a slow, campy, bad game to begin with but that doesn't give ANY reason to artificially nerf characters like dk, rob, and pit and super buff characters like falco, diddy, and olimar just so the game could be "more fun to watch" or "more enjoyable".




banning things just because "its gay" is the most ******** argument i've seen in a while. i think its gay, as a rob main, that my matchup with falco and snake went from being even to almost unwinnable because i cant use my character to his full capabilities. dk mains, think its gay that every time they see a olimar or falco in their bracket its an auto loss because THEY cant use their character to its full capabilities. pit mains think its gay that the diddy matchup becomes almost unwinnable for them since they cant use their character to its full capabilities.



everything in brawl is "gay" but thats not a ****ing reason to ban it, planking is not broken with anyone aside from mk so why should everyone else who has a strong ledge game be punished?


if DKs planking is so OP and warrants a ban, why didnt will (the best dk in the country and the MAIN focus of rich browns argument for keeping an implented lgl) even ****ing place top 5?



DIDNT EVEN PLACE TOP 5 AND WE WANT TO BAN IT.

 

[Ghostbone]

So you're saying people should learn a new character just to deal with planking?

That's like saying people shouldn't have to learn a new character just to deal with Pikachu.
Those fox mains :/

 

[Grim Tuesday]

once again suggesting we play entirely new characters to deal with planking...........

I was actually suggesting you play a completely different game.

Spoiler

Like Melee.

Oh, and TeeVee is right.

 

[Slashy]

didnt say that

brawl will die if this stupid rule stays in place


that i can promise you.

no ones going to want to play this ****.

Well if Brawl dies then people will have a reason to move on to better things, like other fighters .

Grim Tuesday, why should people go back to Melee, Melee isn't exactly a suitable replacement for Brawl.

 

[MintyFlesh]

Will, Look what you did!

 

[Player-1]

Just ban Will, problem solved =D

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Grim Tuesday, why should people go back to Melee, Melee isn't exactly a suitable replacement for Brawl.

It's a great replacement.

Same console, many of the same characters, VERY similar gameplay mechanics, etc...

 

[TheLastCacely]

we've had the lgl so long people forgot why it was implemented. it was not because "oh this is gay and matches are too slow" it was because "in theory once metaknight gains the lead, there is no way to get the lead back if he stays on the ledge". brawl is a slow, campy, bad game to begin with but that doesn't give ANY reason to artificially nerf characters like dk, rob, and pit and super buff characters like falco, diddy, and olimar just so the game could be "more fun to watch" or "more enjoyable".




banning things just because "its gay" is the most ******** argument i've seen in a while. i think its gay, as a rob main, that my matchup with falco and snake went from being even to almost unwinnable because i cant use my character to his full capabilities. dk mains, think its gay that every time they see a olimar or falco in their bracket its an auto loss because THEY cant use their character to its full capabilities. pit mains think its gay that the diddy matchup becomes almost unwinnable for them since they cant use their character to its full capabilities.



everything in brawl is "gay" but thats not a ****ing reason to ban it, planking is not broken with anyone aside from mk so why should everyone else who has a strong ledge game be punished?


if DKs planking is so OP and warrants a ban, why didnt will (the best dk in the country and the MAIN focus of rich browns argument for keeping an implented lgl) even ****ing place top 5?



DIDNT EVEN PLACE TOP 5 AND WE WANT TO BAN IT.

the lgl for most tourneys are around 40

red halberd legitimately timed out an opponent with just 26 ledge grabs. he even told everyone how simple it was on the livestream.

im sure rob, pit etc, can still be used to their full potential with 40. Even though 40 is waaaaaaaaaay to ****in much in the first place.

so really, i dont see what argument you have. all the characters can be used fine.

this rule is completely ********.

Brawl will die if we don't arbitrarily buff characters like Falco and Olimar?

I doubt this

what are you even talking about?

 

[Life]

-9001 to anyone suggesting Japan ever.

Can't Oli beat planking DK with fsmash off the ledge? Even if that requires a specific color, you can just throw pikmin off until you pull the one you need. Or does he get outprioritized or something stupid?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

@Koru: I bet Diddy Kong can still be good without down air, lets remove that too! =D

 

[Slashy]

It's a great replacement.

Same console, many of the same characters, VERY similar gameplay mechanics, etc...

Again, I bring up the Smash Workshop

Brawl+
Same disk, all of the same characters, VERY similar gameplay mechanics

Brawl-
Same disk, all of the same characters, EXTREMELY similar gameplay mechanics

Unstoppabrawl
Same disk, all of the same characters, practically the same gameplay mechanics

Melee may be an amazing game, but there are plenty of things that I like in Brawl that aren't present in Melee.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

we've had the lgl so long people forgot why it was implemented. it was not because "oh this is gay and matches are too slow" it was because "in theory once metaknight gains the lead, there is no way to get the lead back if he stays on the ledge". brawl is a slow, campy, bad game to begin with but that doesn't give ANY reason to artificially nerf characters like dk, rob, and pit and super buff characters like falco, diddy, and olimar just so the game could be "more fun to watch" or "more enjoyable".




banning things just because "its gay" is the most ******** argument i've seen in a while. i think its gay, as a rob main, that my matchup with falco and snake went from being even to almost unwinnable because i cant use my character to his full capabilities. dk mains, think its gay that every time they see a olimar or falco in their bracket its an auto loss because THEY cant use their character to its full capabilities. pit mains think its gay that the diddy matchup becomes almost unwinnable for them since they cant use their character to its full capabilities.



everything in brawl is "gay" but thats not a ****ing reason to ban it, planking is not broken with anyone aside from mk so why should everyone else who has a strong ledge game be punished?


if DKs planking is so OP and warrants a ban, why didnt will (the best dk in the country and the MAIN focus of rich browns argument for keeping an implented lgl) even ****ing place top 5?



DIDNT EVEN PLACE TOP 5 AND WE WANT TO BAN IT.

well it might bring out full potential in certain characters, but it also degrades/makes it nearly impossible for others. There should be a LGL for all characters, cuz not only MK can plank.

 

[Ghostbone]

what are you even talking about?

Stuff about how apparently Brawl will die if we don't put a LGL on the whole cast, basically just to help a few characters.


Oh and Slashy
Those hacks don't work in PAL as far as I know.
(plus they'll never become tourney standard)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Brawl+ works with PAL.

 

[RichBrown]

Well I've had some time to calm down, so I wanna say a few things then leave this alone:

-I apologize to Will and everyone else for the things I said after the match and on the livestream. Will and I talked and we are cool. It's very, very hard for me to not be mad at him, because let's be honest: any one of you would be mad too if you had a legit chance of placing high in tourney, spending 300 bucks to do so, then have someone plank you that hard (especially after you 3 stocked them the previous game lolol). But as ******** as it was, my displaced anger should have gone towards the situation, not Will.

Xyro just approached me a few minutes ago and apologized profusely for what happened, and also informed me he would be enforcing a LGL at all future tournaments.

I'm more sad than anything right now, but ultimately something good came out of this, and if I had to be the one to suffer for it then so be it.

I'm sorry for anything rude I said to Xyro/Will/anyone else in this discussion. I just hope you all at least understand my frustration with what happened.

 

[Slashy]

Stuff about how apparently Brawl will die if we don't put a LGL on the whole cast, basically just to help a few characters.


Oh and Slashy
Those hacks don't work in PAL as far as I know.
(plus they'll never become tourney standard)

I think there is a better chance of a Brawl mod becoming tournament standard than it dying out in favor of Melee.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

-It's very, very hard for me to not be mad at him, because let's be honest: any one of you would be mad too if you had a legit chance of placing high in tourney, spending 300 bucks to do so, then have someone plank you that hard (especially after you 3 stocked them the previous game lolol).

Actually, no, I wouldn't have been mad.

What Will did was perfectly legitimate and showed that he is a more skilled player than you in that particular match-up of characters/players, whether you like it or not.

 

[TheLastCacely]

Actually, no, I wouldn't have been mad.

What Will did was perfectly legitimate and showed that he is a more skilled player than you in that particular match-up of characters/players, whether you like it or not.

your trolls are way to obvious.

 

[Isatis]

Again, I bring up the Smash Workshop

Slashy, at this point you're bringing in unnecessary advertisement in a topic that doesn't want it. Stop.

 

[Slashy]

Slashy, at this point you're bringing in unnecessary advertisement in a topic that doesn't want it. Stop.

Can this apply to "Go Play Melee" arguments then too?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

your trolls are way to obvious.

I rarely troll, I stand by what I said and if it happens to pi$$ off Rich, then so be it.

 

[Slashy]

I rarely troll, I stand by what I said and if it happens to pi$$ off Rich, then so be it.

You did irritate some of the Melee players by suggesting a Wobbling rule change

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Since when did trolling become synonymous with irritating?

 

[Vinnie]

1ally
2razer
3dojo
4adhd
5vinnie
5atomsk
7will
7shugo
9logic
9tyrant
9trela
9inui

 

[Alex Strife]

Im so glad I live in europe LOL

3 minute matches on smashville all day !

seriously though, hope alex wont use the same rules at apex

To clarify I am using my standard NY/NJ ruleset for LGL ( 40 most likely )

I am glad rich apologized ( figured he would he isnt a bad dude just was upset )


This situation will be covered in Episode 5 of my Alex Strife Introspective. So people please see it if you want my opinion.

The least I can do is say this.




This game is not a conventional game. It is not a 2D fighter where there is a limit on where you can go. Games will not be about offense but, rather, playing safe and playing to win. What will did was in the right but that does not mean the ruleset was correct. I can debate what is better and what is not for the community but the bottom line is that we are at a point where we need to sit down and really think what is best

is it a "fair" ruleset that promotes competitive play ? If so we also have to understand what it is to be competitive. Is it playing a super boring way to win or is it flash? Is there a way to have a mixture of both? Those are things we need to think about.

Think of it this way...

The San Antonio Spurs play fundamental basketball but are not looked at as a dynasty more so because it was considered boring.

The lakers are the showtime lakers...flash, Kobe, and all this. People want to see them play.

Now forget how basketball is setup and really understand that. We want , as fans, to see something fast paced. We never want to watch something boring and usually turn it off ( Golf , Nascar, etc ) so that is why a LGL was made. It was more so for the casuals to keep interested and keep our community in good standings in regards to our casual players. Those players are MORE important cause those players will become our mid-class players that stay on for years to come ( after some of us have gone ). Let us be honest here. Get our minds off of playing to win and realize why that LGL is there...we want to entertain our fans much like any sport or e-sport is...that is why a rule like this was made.



This is just my thoughts. If I feel the need to respond to other questions ( if people want PM me )

 

[Slashy]

I think it has to do with game balance, you choose what character you play as. If the match up is bad for you...then that's your own fault.

 

[Ghostbone]

We want , as fans, to see something fast paced.

Then...don't watch brawl?

There are a billion other tactics besides planking that slow down the pace of the match significantly.

 

[Mampam]

1ally
2razer
3dojo
4adhd
5vinnie
5atomsk
7will
7shugo
9logic
9tyrant
9trela
9inui

didnt halberd get 9th?

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

didnt halberd get 9th?

he got 13th iirc.

 

[Alex Strife]

Character balance is one thing but to be honest TOs put it there to appease casual players.

Let us be realistic. We want to balance a game that is not able to be balance. I love both melee and brawl but those games are not balanced. We try to create a level playing field but sometimes it cannot happen.

Our goal should be to keep the community together and help our players reach events. Creating situations that do not help our community is something we should try to avoid.


Again this is my opinion I understand if this not the opinion of others but after years of TOing in the Smash Community. We cannot appease everyone but if we try our best to level the playing field and make it about skill rather than play-type or stage-list then IMO we have done our jobs.

 

[Typ_Ex]

Since when did trolling become synonymous with irritating?

im pretty sure thats textbook trolling

L. afk.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I was under the impression that the purpose of trolling was always irritating people, but irritating people isn't always trolling.

If I make a point that I actually agree with, it's not trolling, no matter how many people it annoys.

 

[Typ_Ex]

of course, cause i never agree with what i say at all...