Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[MarkLoo]

That's not true...You're saying that because I'm not holding down the shield for longer than necessary that I'm gaining no extra protection. This is faulty thinking. What I'm saying is that for the split second that Falco lands on the ground, he is unprotected. If a Marth counters one of Falco's lasers as he's landing and is within range, he'll hit the Falco. If the Falco had been holding L or R he may or may not powershield, or just normally shield the counter. This applies to other approaches to Falco's lasers as well that involve attacks. What I was suggesting was minimalizing the time that Falco was unprotected.

The times that Falco are unprotected while SHLing are when he jumps prior to shooting the laser and when he lands (given that the opponent gets hit by the laser). If Marth counters the laser, the counter should come out sometime when Falco lands (something he could shield). Because he's holding L or R he will shield the first frame he can and will also hold it until he goes to fire another laser. Because of this, we have minimalized the unprotected moment to only when Falco is in the air prior to shooting a laser. Because he hasn't shot a laser, Marth could not counter it.

But this is only taking it into the context of Marth's counter. I'm sure there are other situations which this could be useful in as well.

This is true, you're right. Shield shl-ing does narrow the window in which falco is vulnerable, which is useful against counters and possible powershielded lasers. My point was simply to refute your point that shield shling adds protection AND adds no extra lag. One or the other. Also, shielding after a SHL does limit some options, such as a shine, smash, tilt, or anything that can't be done out of shield.

 

[Proverbs]

Of course it's limiting, but I was merely suggesting it as a possible strategy. But I don't see how shield SHLing adds extra lag. You shield the moment you land and you can jump out of your shield the moment you shield. Doesn't seem to be any different from normal SHLing.

 

[Da Shuffla]

This is true, you're right. Shield shl-ing does narrow the window in which falco is vulnerable, which is useful against counters and possible powershielded lasers. My point was simply to refute your point that shield shling adds protection AND adds no extra lag. One or the other. Also, shielding after a SHL does limit some options, such as a shine, smash, tilt, or anything that can't be done out of shield.

Shine and Usmash can both be done out of shield.

 

[Broken_HitBox]

Can anyone help me with multi shines when i do it i only end up jumping although im clearly pressing B maybe it snot the right timing or something?

 

[I.B]

maybe you're not pressing down+b quick enough.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Maybe you're doing it too fast. That happened to me when I first picked up Falco as a secondary. I was doing the multi-shine with Fox-speed. Travel along the outer edge of the Y button when you are doing it. Helps to control your speed.

 

[Broken_HitBox]

Maybe you're doing it too fast. That happened to me when I first picked up Falco as a secondary. I was doing the multi-shine with Fox-speed. Travel along the outer edge of the Y button when you are doing it. Helps to control your speed.

oh tha tmakes alota sense cause i can do about 6 with fox so i guess im used to that speed then and i slide from X lol

 

[RestInPeace]

Wow. 209 pages to this thing.

Anyway, how do you deal with Foxes? Because I get grabbed to triple USmash at low percents. I don't even know where to DI.

I just Dair to Shine and WD forward going for another SHFFL'd Dair and repeat. I know UAir is good instead of SHFFL'ing Dairs every time, but I don't know the percentages. And how else do you combo/kill a Fox? I know ledge hop Bair works.

 

[Falcinho]

if he always usmashes after an uthrow either DI the uthrow up and away if he sucks at chaingrabbing.
However it's really easy to learn, so be sure to DI those usmashes away.

repeat dair-shine combos until about 50%.

SH uair is cool at around 50-70% (somewhere between these %s uair-->fsmash is possible, but it requires bad or no DI)

But it's difficult to tell you how you should combo.
There are thousands ways of following up.
For example on platformstages, you can use those platform very well.

SH nairs and fairs can also be used to push your enemy offstage/set up a techchase/set up a fsmash (if they are afraid of being sent too far to recover = bad DI)

and the utilt. Learn to love the utilt.

 

[RestInPeace]

When do you use Fair? I never use it.

So I just try to SDI directly outwards (the direction the fox is looking)?

 

[Falcinho]

well, very rarely.

and i use it rather against floaties, FJ-fair hits several times with fail DI, so it can be better than FJ-bair/nair.

Basically you can also do fair-->fsmash against all chars where you can nair-->fsmash.
Just use fair when your enemy is slighty too high to hit with a nair.
Both combos require bad DI, but if you nair somewhen near the ledge it even works against decent players sometimes, bcuz they instinctively do survival DI.

 

[JPOBS]

question about bair and dair from shine
not talking about combo'ing with sh dair and bair from shine like pillaring etc.

Im talking about shine->full jump Bair thats used as a finisher.
what i want to know is, does DI affect this at all? or is it a matter of doing it so quickly that the DI doesnt have time to take hold?

i've been working on adding this to my game and i wondered if good players can DI out and avoid a sweetpoted Bair?

 

[Falcinho]

Good DI makes it harder to hit with, but if you space it right (hit with the bottom of your shine) and DJ-dair/bair fast enough, it should connect until high %ages.

 

[JPOBS]

i see, thanks

 

[RestInPeace]

So, in other words, SH and shine to DJ Bair/Dair?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

So, in other words, SH and shine to DJ Bair/Dair?

in essence, yes.

 

[RestInPeace]

I tried it today, but my aerial attack never hits them. They always fly too far away, I don't know why. By 'hit with the bottom of your shine' do you mean the direct bottom of my shine? Or hit with the shine at a 225 degree angle (if so, if they're behind or in front of you)?

 

[LumpyCPU...]

it doesn't matter if they're behind or in front of you.
the hard part for me is that my friend know how to DI. lol

 

[CommanderCody08]

In a lot of Falco vids I see people use a quick jump-cancelled shine while recovering. Is this just to be flashy or does it have a useful purpose? Does the shine cancel your backwards momentum because if so I should definetely start to use it.

 

[Falcinho]

yeah it slows down your momentum.

But if you DI properly youwon't really need it very often, because by the time you can shine your backwards momentum already is over =/

 

[TTTempesTTT]

hey shiz, it might sound kinda stupid but i need to now how to shine combo.im not going to lie i just learned how to wave dash,and now i usually only normal shine.
(i mean just press down B)
so if youll help thatl be great

 

[DtJ Jungle]

shiz doesnt answer in this thread anymore.

learn to waveshine

then watch vids of shiz, chops, zhu etc and see what they do vs certain char.

 

[Incronaut]

i'm having trouble once i get them into the air... I always dair because i figure it always gives me a chance to re-shine them and then etc. But when i see other (better) falcos play, i see them switching it up with pretty much every other aerial (except fair of course) and i can never tell when i should be doing that cause im always just tempted to re-dair them again -.-

 

[saberhof]

^ all you have to do is be sure that you can continue it, and not mess up :O...if your going for another DAIR and then a shine, make sure you cancel it right and keep it going, if not, just bair them, and get back with some lazo0rs! x)

mix it up..doesnt matter, even if its fair =D

 

[falcofox121SHL]

hey DSW do you wavedash with control stick or y??
im just curious

 

[Da Shuffla]

I can't answer for Shiz, but imo, Y is the best choice. Using the control stick makes it needlessly complicated.

 

[saberhof]

yep, wavedashing with Y is your best choice by far, more control really...

 

[falcofox121SHL]

thanks=) iv used Y since the beginning but my friends said control stick was easier so i just had to ask
haa

 

[botulismnator]

What are the best inputs for ledge hop reverse double mid-low laser? ie. DSW vs fox player

 

[DtJ Jungle]

uh. what?
can you link the vid...waht do you mean mid-low

like one mid one low? or what?

 

[Mogwai]

What are the best inputs for ledge hop reverse double mid-low laser? ie. DSW vs fox player

don't drop as low as with the standard double low ledge hop laser, then fast fall after the first laser when your DJ peaks.

 

[Denthorn]

I know Ganon and Falcon can waveland by air-dodging at a completely horizontal angle to get ridiculous wavelands off of platforms and such, and I've been trying to replicate it with Falco. I didn't think it was actually possible for awhile, but then I realized that you can do it from a ledgehop on Yoshi's Story onto either platform on the side, and I can get that to work fairly consistently but can't for the life of me do it starting from a position on stage. Is it actually possible to waveland onto a platform during your initial jump with just a horizontal input for the airdodge (aka my timing is just off)? Or is there something about the way Falco's body distorts (for lack of a better word) when he double jumps that makes it possible only while in the double jump animation?

 

[botulismnator]

I'm pretty sure you can waveland horizontally during any jump. In my opinion, it is easier to do on the stage, as in an empty short hop followed by "perfect" waveland or fastfall waveland. However, it's not as advantageous to do so with falco as with ganon. Better to dodge at an angle so you can control distance and mess up less. It's also way easier to do this with ganon.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

it is incredibly hard to perfectly waveland from falco's initial jump simply because his jump has more start up lag than other chars and he moves through the air faster than other chars. So learning the timing is just a ***** to do.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

like ganon..if you dj you can immediately press R/L and you waveland...its ridiculous.

falcos isnt that simple

 

[orbit]

question about the full jump double laser - i've been trying to get that technique down, where you laser at the top of your full jump, fast fall, then get one more laser off close to the ground. I can get the second one about midway through the jump, but how do you do it where the second one is at the ground level?

example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cY1YGUP3l_Q
@ :52

 

[DtJ Jungle]

ok. go to mogwai's falco school. theres a whole section on lasers.

 

[PB&J]

hey falco mains..who are the best falco's on the west coast..im pretty curious

 

[Mogwai]

Zhu and Mango. Lunin also has a really good Falco iirc. Silent Wolf's Falco is pretty nice too.

EDIT: If you count AZ as West Coast too, then add Forward and Axe to that list.

 

[Binx]

Mogwai covered it pretty well, probably Zhu or SW overall.