Smackledorf
Smash Rookie
yea i get what you're saying. i think it's after i jump that i can't get to the b button fast enough to pull off 2 consecutive lasers.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.
- Thread starter DaShizWiz
- Start date
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
I use the control stick method. It just takes practice. The hardest part once you get used to getting both lasers is getting them LOW enough. You will SD a lot in practice trying to make the correct height muscle memory. You can get the first laser at standing head height, and the second one almost right along the floor. That is ideal LHDL. If someone is spaced away and coming in from above, just do it REALLY fast, and you can shoot two high lasers to intercept.
Smackledorf
Smash Rookie
yea i tried DIing forward a little more than usual after the first laser to get more air time and to safely get back on the stage and it sorta works.
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Can you waveshine normally? If you can't I suspect you aren't getting your thumb from B to your jump button fast enough. If you CAN waveshine normally, then, you are probably trying to jump out during the hitlag of hitting someone, in which you can't. You just have to learn to delay your jump a few frames. I suspect though it's more or less the first one, in which case all I can tell you is practice to get faster.
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Then you are doing it while still in hitlag from hitting them. (I am about to state frame data, if anyone can site more accurate data< go with that). Shine can normally be canceled on frame 1 I believe. But if you hit someone with it, it can't be canceled until frame 4. This means, combined with Falco's 6 frame jump start up, you can't begin the wavedash until 10 frames into the sequence. So in short, you just really have to learn to slow it down by fractions of a second, there is no easy way as far as I know. I just trained my hands to make the hitlag muscle memory by really only practicing waveshines against people and their shields.
shine can be cancelled on frame 3...it comes out on frame 1....its frame 3 or 4....
Milos
Smash Lord
and and with hitlag it's frame 7 or 8. 14 frames pre airdodge
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
I don't think so lol. Just set it to like a level 4 cpu fox and practice drill shine waveshine out.
need not worry i got it down now lol just needed 2 slow down lol. dont know how i got it, it was like everything just clicked
. when i get recording equipment i'll show you guys what ive learned in 3 weeks
Smackledorf
Smash Rookie
whats a drill shine?
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Down air -> Shine. You can't do it without an l-cancel on the down air.
ShiftingShadows28
Smash Journeyman
New to the competitive game and i am getting on fine with the ATs .
My question is about dair to shine..
Should i be fast falling dairs into shines ?
and if so then can you explain how to do that useing A
My question is about dair to shine..
Should i be fast falling dairs into shines ?
and if so then can you explain how to do that useing A
Pengie
Smash Lord
Yes you should always fastfall your attacks. It's better to use the C-stick because you can DI away to help your spacing and you won't fastfall before you have to.
gkrackerr
Smash Ace
sorry if it's already been said, but what are the percentages on peach's/marth's/fox's chain grab on falco?
from what point should i start spamming shine/jump to get out of it?
also, are there any ACTUAL applications for a triple shine... besides showing off?
from what point should i start spamming shine/jump to get out of it?
also, are there any ACTUAL applications for a triple shine... besides showing off?
If you are fighting a Peach on Corneria (or even more rarely, Green Greens), you can triple shine to death from 0-30ish (on corneria's wing and I think it's the platforms on Green Greens, though it might be the floor - it's been so long since I've played on GG).
It might work on jiggs too, but I don't have much experience against jiggs.
It might work on jiggs too, but I don't have much experience against jiggs.
Pengie
Smash Lord
I think he was talking about 3 consecutive JC Shines. To my knowledge it's best to only do 2 JC Shines because after that they are pushed to far away for the third shine to hit their shield.
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
I've been busy, sorry guys.
Well, if you are doing the pillar, you should always fast fall. In general, it's best to fast fall when going in anyways, because it allows you to get to the ground fastest and out of lag fast enough to do something before their stun wears off from shield stun or a crouch cancel (at the right percents). I use c-stick personally. If you are using A. SH, fast fall, delay it slightly, then hit A. You don't want to wait too long, because you will create a larger window of vulnerability from the shine. Getting grabbed out of a shield pressure string ruins your day.
Usually along the same percents Fox can get cg'ed, but something like 10% higher. I usually don't try to jump out. Especially against Marth. If Marth catches you without a jump, consider your stock lost. If the Marth is any good at chain grabbing, I shy away from Final Destination. Go to stages where you can DI to a platform, and force them to correctly guess your tech if they want to keep going. You can shine out at any percent provided they mistime the regrab.
This does not work. If they have half a brain to hold away, they can get free after the second shine from low percents.
You can DI during the shield string so you follow the knock back you put on their shield. I think it's just more useful to JC grab after the shine than showing off.
****, looks like KoJ's been holdin' it down in here since I went to my thread, good **** son.
People should go to my thread to ask questions since I answer quickly and stuff.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781
For reference...
If you start your dair before your fast fall, the fast fall is really difficult when you use A. This is because you have to hit down and A, then let your stick return to neutral, then smash down again to fast fall. If you're fast falling before the dair, A is fine since you can just smash down to fast fall and hold it there and tap A to dair, but you usually dair a little before you fast fall, which means than jump, c-stick down, smash down on control stick is physically easier.
I don't remember the exact %s, but against Fox it's a little over 30, Marth it's around 35/40ish, Peach it's retardedly high, like 100+, but doesn't start until 30ish.
People should go to my thread to ask questions since I answer quickly and stuff.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781
For reference...
My suggestion is to learn to use your c-stick and this is why:
If you start your dair before your fast fall, the fast fall is really difficult when you use A. This is because you have to hit down and A, then let your stick return to neutral, then smash down again to fast fall. If you're fast falling before the dair, A is fine since you can just smash down to fast fall and hold it there and tap A to dair, but you usually dair a little before you fast fall, which means than jump, c-stick down, smash down on control stick is physically easier.
To get out of chaingrabs, you just wiggle out of your tumble and shine. You will be able to escape earliest by not DIing, but this frequently gives Marth/Peach/Fox better combo options out of the uthrow while shutting down the chaingrab.
I don't remember the exact %s, but against Fox it's a little over 30, Marth it's around 35/40ish, Peach it's retardedly high, like 100+, but doesn't start until 30ish.
It sorta works if you hit them with the bottom of your 2nd shine and do the 3rd shine extremely quickly out of the 2nd shine, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svWW98l2Me4&feature=related but probably won't kill at 0. Either way, the 3rd shine is so unreliable, you're better off doing a bair or uair out of the shine.
multishining has a lot of utility. Done perfectly, it only gives them 2 frames out of shield stun, as opposed to at least 9/10 frames in a standard pillar. Shine JC grab is excellent to a point, but gives them noticeably more frames to roll or do anything else OOS, and is laggier, which means they can punish it easier if it doesn't connect. Shine JC grab is a good counter for people who like to shield grab or WD out of shield a lot, but is a poor counter vs. faster options OOS (shine, upBs), to which you must learn to space or approach vs. shields differently, or learn to multishine their shield. After the 2nd shine, they are less useful, since most opponents have either committed to rolling (escapes the shield pressure regardless) or an OoS option (will get hit by the 2nd shine), but still technically good, just not practically terribly much better than continuing the shield pressure (or combo if you connected) with a dair.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Can I get some general advice vs Falcons?
ShiftingShadows28
Smash Journeyman
Thanks for the advice but scarily ive started using the c stick to fast fall my aerials and i can generally shffl any aerial intol a shine apart from a nair 
any advice on shffling a nair to shine and when i should do that?
any advice on shffling a nair to shine and when i should do that?
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
You might be fast falling too early, espeacially if you just hit something with your Nair. Its what I had problems with when I first picked up Falco
i down + b, then jump with y with thumb, push my control stick in direction of the wavedash, prss R with my index
ShiftingShadows28
Smash Journeyman
i learned to wave dash with the L button and this makes it much simpler to waveshine
it does take a while to get used to but the you can wd with both L and R and its awsome ^_^
it does take a while to get used to but the you can wd with both L and R and its awsome ^_^
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
That's how I roll haha.
Good that you have started using c stick. As far as nair shuffling goes, the best advice is to just practice it over and over. You can to account for the fact that you need to do it low to the shield to get the stun out. Fast fall at the highest point of your short hop to give you even just a few more frames to get your finger to A and nair. You also have to account for hit lag that may mess up your fast fall timing.Thanks for the advice but scarily ive started using the c stick to fast fall my aerials and i can generally shffl any aerial intol a shine apart from a nair
any advice on shffling a nair to shine and when i should do that?
I use X and R for everything. I only use Y to sdhl with Fox, and JC Shines sometimes. I also use R to shield normally, so pretty much all my needed dexterity is kept in my right hand.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
how can i beat captain falcon? he's so fast and good
you dont
you accept ****
you accept ****
battousai555
Smash Ace
This quote made my day. Well put, good sir.
istudying
Smash Lord
How to Wave Shine?
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Shine -> wavedash. Repeat.
Da Shuffla
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,810
You can fast-fall with the c-stick?
Milos
Smash Lord
the end
gkrackerr
Smash Ace
how do most of you guys feel about the peach match up? I mean, I've seen people like shiz just switch to fox, but then I've seen people like Dope just **** face w/ falco.
Stick falco, or go fox? Or hell, go falcon or marth?
and really tedious, but does anyone have like a list of percentages of where falco can crouch cancel **** against sheik? I know earlier on I can CC like everything, but up to what percent should I stop trying to CC -> Shine/w/e her dash attack and d-smash?
Stick falco, or go fox? Or hell, go falcon or marth?
and really tedious, but does anyone have like a list of percentages of where falco can crouch cancel **** against sheik? I know earlier on I can CC like everything, but up to what percent should I stop trying to CC -> Shine/w/e her dash attack and d-smash?
Milos
Smash Lord
dash attack CC's til around 40 i think?
downsmash you can only CC shine til like 20, unless she hits you with an afterleg
peach used to have the advantage, but i think it's in falco's favor now, just mad lasers and space keeping and stuff. but fox has a much bigger advantage
downsmash you can only CC shine til like 20, unless she hits you with an afterleg
peach used to have the advantage, but i think it's in falco's favor now, just mad lasers and space keeping and stuff. but fox has a much bigger advantage
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Peach can't move against lasers unless she can reliably powershield. So this leaves Peach the options to go above lasers. Because she always is going to generally float at a certain height to get over them, it leaves her options obvious. I prefer to not run back to the edge to outspace her. I'll generally go to a platform, or try to approach her head on with things like nair, shine, or upsmash. You can also try to bait her move with a double jump and come down really fast with fast fallen dairs and try to combo. I'd rather have Shiz or Mogwai handle this one because those two can probably offer more insight on Peach.
I'd don't have a list, but I generally stop trying to crouch cancel most characters around mid thirties to low forties. Sheik is a really risky character sometimes, because aerials are generally the best things to crouch cancel in my experience, and she isn't a character that wants to be taking to the air too often. So her ground options will be her most used, and if the players sees you crouch canceling a lot, they will just grab and start doing really stupid things like combos and gimps
.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Alot of people who use falco are also good at using fox and while falco v peach isn't that bad, fox v peach is so stupidly unbalanced of a match up that its usually worth it to go fox anyway, I usually go falco just because I'm comfortable with a matchup. Fox is the better choice usually but if you're more comfortable with falco then just use him anyway. Shiz just seems bad at the peach match up and his fox is really good so why not? lol
Really though if you plan on using falco just use his superior mobility, peach can't really punish his jumps unless she is right next to you anyway, dair eats her for breakfast and stuff, just don't get gimped grabbed dash attacked or dsmashed lol
as for falcon utilt ***** all his aerials for free, use lasers to force him into a chokepoint where he kind of has to either run away and get maneuver more or approach you
Really though if you plan on using falco just use his superior mobility, peach can't really punish his jumps unless she is right next to you anyway, dair eats her for breakfast and stuff, just don't get gimped grabbed dash attacked or dsmashed lol
as for falcon utilt ***** all his aerials for free, use lasers to force him into a chokepoint where he kind of has to either run away and get maneuver more or approach you