Who do you believe has the worst set of B moves?

[iggy204]

wolf too hard to use the up and side B and his gun leaves him vunlbrale his only good moves is the down b

 

[cjrocker]

wolf too hard to use the up and side B and his gun leaves him vunlbrale his only good moves is the down b

I beg to differ
You shouldn't be using his gun in the first place if it leaves you vulnerable
How is his recovery too hard?
His overB covers a good distance when cancelled, his upB probably is his worst special but definitely isn't hard to use

 

[Yaya]

Wolf's Up-B can be used as a great suprise attack move.

 

[rinoH]

yoshi prbably has the worst

 

[-NEOLINK-]

I'd have to say Yoshi too.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I'd say personally say Jigglypuff.

B (roll out) is virtually useless on stages with platforms and, even without them, is extremelly easy to predict and avoid.

B forward (pound) is one of Jigglypuff's best approaches so it's basically her only useful B move.

B up (sing) just plain sucks and I haven't even seen professionals find a use for it.

B down (rest) is extremelly situational and no where as good as it was in Melee.

 

[Vect0r]

Captain Falcon... I mean, what point do they- *gets hit by FALCON PUNCH*

 

[Ham Enterprises]

Hmm, I say that Jigglypuff has the worst? I'm not a Jigglypuff user though..

Side-b = Only good one in my opinion.

Up-b = I haven't seen this being useful, even in FFA.

Down-b = Hard to land and doesn't KO as early as it did before.

B = Decent, but usually easy to see coming.

I agree, side b= good recovery, and down b= nerfed

 

[Brinzy]

KoJ, thank you for the post on Ness's projectiles, but even PK Flash isn't terrible. I have some of my older videos still up (and I don't do all that great, but the point is to show how PK Flash can be used).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElBkyzb5MXc 0:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLWhWzp85wk 0:27

That's how I mainly use PK Flash, along with the typical edgeguard and mindgame playing. It's not a bad move at all. Usually it just means an extra 10% to a string of attacks I get in.

 

[ArowYoshi]

olimar...

down-b useless
up-b only good with four or more pikman
over-b basicly killing your pikmen
neutral-b only good six times and not an attack.

and i think yoshi's B moves are quite desent, then again i main him so im a bit bias on that.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

that is a good question. but i gotta say sonic. i mean his up+b is a good recovery and regular+b hones in on others but his side and down+b are the same. its just, one you hold b and one you repeatitly press it.

 

[Banjodorf]

Yoshi and Sonic hit me as the worst. Ike comes in third.

 

[NintenJoe]

probably jigglypuff. most of them are situational at best, and some (up-B) are almost unusable in an actual fight. -.-

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Squirtle probably has the worst set of special moves. Water Gun is difficult to use right, and Withdraw could cause unavoidable SDs. Waterfall is pretty decent though.

 

[the Lexx]

Anyone who posted ness has probably never seen a ness, ever.

I'd say the Captain.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Sonic by a long shot

 

[Crystanium]

Ness could be in the running.

Neutral b takes quite some time to charge.

Up-B only hit's once, is easily punished, and is probably the worst of the up-b recoveries out there.

his down-b is alright, but not every projectile can be absorbed (Samus' missiles i.e.)

not too sure on his side-b other than when used in the air can have a lot of lag.

Ness relies less on Special moves, unlike Lucas. Ness' PK Thunder is excellent for mind games, which can cause the opponent to shield out of the fear of getting hit, when in fact PK Thunder isn't going to hit anyway. It can also be used with mind games to bring out PK Jibaku (PK Thunder 2). PK Flash is used more often for edge-guarding than anything else, though it can be used against opponents who are coming back down after being hit upward.

Ness players will sometimes use the PK Flash and bring it toward themselves, which makes Ness' opponents hesistant to get near. PK Fire is good for racking up damage, as it creates a pillar on the opponent. PK Fire can also be used to gimp Ness' opponents since it becomes a pillar. When it hits the opponent who is returning, the pillar falls with the opponent. I've seen this a few times. My brother mains Ness. PSI Magnet limits opponents who weild projectile that can be absorbed. Yes, even Samus becomes limited, depending on Homing and Super Missiles.

 

[Yinlong]

jigglypuff
it was O.K. in melee
but now it just plain sucks.
why would they nerf down+B, its hard enough to land already...

 

[OmegaXXII]

it's pretty much Jiggs, always has been always will be

 

[Fatmanonice]

Squirtle probably has the worst set of special moves. Water Gun is difficult to use right, and Withdraw could cause unavoidable SDs. Waterfall is pretty decent though.

I somewhat agree with this. Water Gun is like a crappy version of FLUDD and your opponent can basically get a free hit with withdraw if they 1. use a strong attack to significantly slow down the momentum before attacking again or 2. jump on you resulting in Squirtle flopping flat on his back resulting in a free smash attack.

 

[Skywalker]

it's pretty much Jiggs, always has been always will be

haha. really?

B -- nice priority, speed
B > -- One of the better recoveries in brawl (assuming you DI properly)
B ^ -- mindgames
B v -- it has its uses

it usually helps to play as jigglypuff before bashing her.

 

[Sosuke]

haha. really?

B -- nice priority, speed
B > -- One of the better recoveries in brawl (assuming you DI properly)
B ^ -- mindgames
B v -- it has its uses

it usually helps to play as jigglypuff before bashing her.

Meh not always Giga, but In brawl:
B- Come on you can't honestly say this hits anyone except nubs.
Side B is and will always be amazing.
Up B - no. Should never work on anyone except at the ledge. And even then people shold see it coming.
Down B is mindgames.

 

[Zenthewanderer]

I'd say either Jigglypuff or Ganondorf. Namely how useless Jiggly's are and slow Ganon's are. There's also the fact that Jiggly's only remotely useful move (Rollout) can easily get you killed on the wrong stage. Yes Side-B is great for recovery horizontal recovery, but not much else. But her specials are superior to Ganon's, no question.

For people that say Sonic, you obviously don't know how to play him. I'll say no more here- not worth my time. Same for Yoshi really, but I know what you all mean here.

I'm afraid I have to agree about Ness... his have quite a few flaws. They fixed a good bit of my issues with them in Lucas thankfully. ^^" But if Ness players have learned not to rely on his specials, good for them.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

For people that say Sonic, you obviously don't know how to play him. I'll say no more here- not worthy my time. Same for Yoshi really, but I know what you all mean here.

Sonic's are side and down b are lame. They're almost like the same exact move. Each one has unique properties but the fact still remains that they look almost exactly the same.

I vote Sonic's.

You seem pretty confident,Zenth. Maybe a match sometime.

 

[Greenstreet]

i dont think you can say ganon has bad b moves.... his b down and across are pretty gr8, its all about using em in the right way.

 

[Skywalker]

Meh not always Giga, but In brawl:
B- Come on you can't honestly say this hits anyone except nubs.
Side B is and will always be amazing.
Up B - no. Should never work on anyone except at the ledge. And even then people shold see it coming.
Down B is mindgames.

B - actually no. again, it has its occasional uses and is unpredictable in some cases. it's not fox's dB but still
B > - yep
B ^ - see B neutral
B v - yep

I agree with you for the most part.

 

[Negi-Kun]

Jigglypuff, Yoshi.

 

[Frown]

Yoshi:

B: Was only useful in SSB64.
Forward B: Some n00bs think it's invincible and jump instead of attacking it.
Down B: Not too good.
Up B: Always handy.

 

[KoJ]

I'm afraid I have to agree about Ness... his have quite a few flaws. They fixed a good bit of my issues with them in Lucas thankfully. ^^" But if Ness players have learned not to rely on his specials, good for them.

Ness is no where near the bottom. Even though Lucas still has better specials, Ness can PK jump to immobilize and slaughter enemies, use PK thunder mindgames, and his Magnet is useful against projectile spam.

Seriously, read the earlier posts.

 

[AnAardvark]

wolf too hard to use the up and side B and his gun leaves him vunlbrale his only good moves is the down b

Wolf's Up B is a pretty simple move, and can do some damage. Also, I've seen some people use it as a flashy move to end a match by dragging their opponents to the bottom of the stage.

His Side B is a pretty good recovery move, but not really good for attacking, since you can't really catch people on the ground in the sweetspot of his Side-B. Than again, I've also seen some people who've been daring enough to use it to spike off stage and have succeeded in doing so.

Wolf's Gun is a pretty good projectile move, and it doesn't leave you as vulnerable as some other moves, so it's not as bad as other moves.

Wolf's Down-B... Hmm, I've never really seen this used besides as a projectile reflector and as an edge-guard, and even rarely is it successful at edge-guarding.

 

[MarKO X]

My thoughts on Yoshi, Ness, Jiggs, Sonic, and Ganon:

Yoshi kinda does need a new set of B moves. Egg Laying is ok, not great, but not disgusting either. UpB needs to change, he needs one that allows him to recover, period. Egg toss should be done like it is in either Yoshi's Island on SNES or Yoshi's Story in N64 so that it can be... effective, and downB has its uses. It should have a LOT less lag though, if you played the yoshi games previously mentioned, then you'd know that technically, it shouldn't lag at all.

Ness's netural B is situational... the edgeguarding thing actually makes sense. His PK fire is okay, but worse now in Brawl because of the lack of hitstun and how you can basically shield out of it. PKT... there's a whole discussion about it somewhere in the BTD, and the Psi Magnet is useful against the right characters, obviously.

On Sonic... his B moves are garbage. B is not a homing attack, and as a loyal Sonic fan, i promise it's not. Side B and Down B deserve more priority for what they are. UpB is his second best B move... FS neutral B is the bestest.

With Ganon, his attacks have similar properties to Falcon's obviously, and I don't think that their B moves are that bad. The fact that they suck in general make them seem horrible I believe.

Jiggs... B is situational, but useful, and it's rarely punished if used properly. SideB is great, DownB is nerfed, and UpB is ********. You can literally get out of your sleep before she finishes her song, unless you do the ledge thing, and even that is questionable.

 

[Ultimate Dark Yoshi]

Yoshi's isn't that bad. You don't SD if your smart enough to pay attention to what your doing. Nuetral B racks up damage, up b is great after a aerial combo, plus the Edge Cancelled Eggs is great too.


On-Topic: Sonic

 

[Firus]

Samus's B moves suck... but then again, so does Samus.

B: this blast doesn't kill like it's supposed to.
SideB: the missilesaren't nearly as devastating as they're supposed to be.
UpB: average recovery, can be used for anti-air, yadayadayada... whatever.
DownB: *yawns*

Samus does suck, but I'd like to contest Down B...no explosion on collision makes it sort of useless there, but it saves me thousands of times with recovering, and if you're falling down it helps too -- slows your descent and makes it hard for your opponent to hit you while you're in the air, because they'll either want to dodge the bomb, or get hit by it. Would be better in that situation if it exploded on contact, but it still has its uses.

This made me laugh.

Meh not always Giga, but In brawl:
B- Come on you can't honestly say this hits anyone except nubs.
Side B is and will always be amazing.
Up B - no. Should never work on anyone except at the ledge. And even then people shold see it coming.
Down B is mindgames.

Neutral B SPAMMED is useless, obviously. It's predictable and anyone with a brain can dodge it and probably send Jiggs flying off the edge. But noobs are the only ones who would be spamming it. You can easily use it when your opponent is unprepared, and while you can die from it, as long as you prepare to press the opposite direction to turn around and stop yourself every time you use it just in case it's dodged, you're golden. And if you turn around at the right moment you may hit your opponent on the way back.

I'm going to vote on...Sonic or Yoshi. I've always hated Yoshi's specials, and Sonic's got two extremely similar ones. Up B has its uses but it can gimp you if you mess up and activate an "air trip" with it (landing at the climax of the recovery before you start flipping down, and then when you jump again you go into that animation and are helpless). Neutral B is predictable since it has such a long startup, and has limited uses.

 

[MarKO X]

Samus does suck, but I'd like to contest Down B...no explosion on collision makes it sort of useless there, but it saves me thousands of times with recovering, and if you're falling down it helps too -- slows your descent and makes it hard for your opponent to hit you while you're in the air, because they'll either want to dodge the bomb, or get hit by it. Would be better in that situation if it exploded on contact, but it still has its uses.

Bomb recovery and slow falling. Yeah, I definitely forgot about that. Forgive me, it's been sooooo long since I played Samus in general. lol

 

[popsofctown]

Jiggs is definitely up there as far as bad specials, but i don't know if she can actually take the cake.

B- Horrible move. It really and truly does not hit people who aren't bad, and aren't having a bad day.
Up B- Best used as a taunt.
Side B- this does have offensive uses in addition to recovery. It is disjointed, and so it outpriotizes whole lot of crap, and hits you faster than you think it would. It also has enhanced shield damage effect, if it hits a shield it takes out about 1/3-1/2 of the total shield. The only problem is that shield pressure isn't really complemented by the rest of Jiggs' moveset.
Down B- It is very nerfed, but nerfed does not mean useless. It can still kill at pretty low percents. And most people don't know this, but Jiggs can combo into rest. Dair->*it trips successfully*->Rest is a true combo. The trip rate on dair isn't that bad either.

I nominate Sonic for worst specials.

 

[Furbs]

hahaha have any of these people even touched yoshi?

his b moves are NOT that bad, and hes far from the worst in regards to his b's but that said he's far from the best

Up - B is a useful projectile, great for anti air, 8% damage, impressive knock back and pretty good hitstun, allowing yoshi to take the offensive or set up for a grab or up smash.

B - eh, it can catch people off guard if they aren't careful, the only good use it has is in the last part of this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj9DpmAAISc

Side B - is good too, it can be used to approach, has good priority (it can eat through the tornado) and does 12% for each time you roll over someone. plus it usually gets canceled when someone attacks it, but it leaves yoshi with NO lag setting up for a jab combo

down b- is meh, helpful if you want to return to the stage, and if used on the ground can KO metaknight at 94%. its hitbox on the ground is actually 2 boxes, one that sets them up and yoshi falling on them, plus the fist hitbox pokes shields


just something to think about.....

 

[Rigor Mortis]

lol metaknight

No but seriously the worst B set in brawl is roys pichu's mew2 young link and dr. mario

 

[peeup]

hahaha have any of these people even touched yoshi?

his b moves are NOT that bad, and hes far from the worst in regards to his b's but that said he's far from the best

Up - B is a useful projectile, great for anti air, 8% damage, impressive knock back and pretty good hitstun, allowing yoshi to take the offensive or set up for a grab or up smash.

B - eh, it can catch people off guard if they aren't careful, the only good use it has is in the last part of this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj9DpmAAISc

Side B - is good too, it can be used to approach, has good priority (it can eat through the tornado) and does 12% for each time you roll over someone. plus it usually gets canceled when someone attacks it, but it leaves yoshi with NO lag setting up for a jab combo

down b- is meh, helpful if you want to return to the stage, and if used on the ground can KO metaknight at 94%. its hitbox on the ground is actually 2 boxes, one that sets them up and yoshi falling on them, plus the fist hitbox pokes shields


just something to think about.....

QFT. Yoshi's specials are situational, but not bad. Something to add to his egg lay, it pwnz against olimar. Egg lay+dsmash=goodbye pikmin

As for who has the worst specials?
Snake...
His up-b is easily caught under FD's ledge, and if you grab him during it, he dies
His side-b is too slow, you can just jump over it
His neutral-b explodes several seconds after being thrown. In other words, predictable and easy to avoid
His down-b is easy to avoid, just stay away from the mine

Snake's specials fail.

 

[pirkid]

lol... I was just about to mention him too.

B: that's not a homing attack.
SideB: a spindash that lacks priority after the initial frames.
DownB: a spindash that lacks priority after the initial frames.
UpB: excellent recovery, would be his best move if it wasn't for...
Final smash neutral B: 0ver 9000 mode.

Samus's B moves suck... but then again, so does Samus.

B: this blast doesn't kill like it's supposed to.
SideB: the missilesaren't nearly as devastating as they're supposed to be.
UpB: average recovery, can be used for anti-air, yadayadayada... whatever.
DownB: *yawns*

It sucks but it's true...Samus lost most of her projectile power.

 

[Firus]

Bomb recovery and slow falling. Yeah, I definitely forgot about that. Forgive me, it's been sooooo long since I played Samus in general. lol

It's okay, I can certainly understand that, given how badly Samus got nerfed undeservedly.

QFT. Yoshi's specials are situational, but not bad. Something to add to his egg lay, it pwnz against olimar. Egg lay+dsmash=goodbye pikmin

As for who has the worst specials?
Snake...
His up-b is easily caught under FD's ledge, and if you grab him during it, he dies
His side-b is too slow, you can just jump over it
His neutral-b explodes several seconds after being thrown. In other words, predictable and easy to avoid
His down-b is easy to avoid, just stay away from the mine

Snake's specials fail.

Up B has good recovery, though. Lots of recoveries are FD ledge gimped, and FD is only one stage.

Side B is slow, but an opponent that's in the air or trying to recover could fall prey to it.

Neutral B, you can hold B just like in all games with grenades to get the clock ticking on the grenade and throw it with perfect timing to explode without giving a chance to escape.

Down B can be stuck on people if he's close when he lays it, which guarantees a hit unless the opponent shields and dodges constantly until it explodes (CPUs will do this). But if you lay it and wait a while your opponent can only sit there for so long, just go up there and grab them. And then, if you strategically place it on the stage, it'll be harder to avoid. Even so, in the heat of battle it can be harder to avoid than you'd think.