Who beats Falco?

[Statistics]

I hit a knowledge barrier today. I'm pretty sure that Falco's counters were Luigi and... well I don't think he had another one.

I guess I don't really understand how Falco has any weaknesses. If an opponent has a reflector, then that's actually good for Falco because he can bait it out and grab. Plus, he's got the full package of safe aerials, platform pressure, good recovery, and of course the chaingrab which works on freaking 90% of the cast after boost-grabbing.

 

[clowsui]

Luigi's not a counter, not in Brawl.

Game and Crotch and ROB are the primary CPs...Wario is also a decently bad matchup but I don't think he's a hard counter just a soft one.

 

[iDizZzY]

idk why, i have a terrible time versus Metaknights. I completely hate them.

 

[homicidalrapist]

meh... falco has some problems with some of the faster characters if he misses his chain grab opportunity. also, lucario is a hard fight since he out ranges falco and can have more power, he also has annoying aerials.
Zelda can be a hard fight since she also out powers and out ranges falco, but she's slower. Zelda can also gimp falco's recovery easily.

 

[Rogue Pit]

Pit Counters everyone except MetaKnight hes anticounterable

 

[cutter]

Pit Counters everyone except MetaKnight hes anticounterable

Explain why please.

 

[zamz]

Pit is not a Falco counter. Ignore him.

 

[Statistics]

Pit is not a Falco counter. Ignore him.

Thank you.

It seems like so far you guys have said MK, Lucario, and Zelda.

How does Zelda keep pressure on Falco? If you say Din's Fire I'm gonna slap you.

And aren't all 3 of them chaingrab-able?

How do any of them deal with laser?

 

[1001]

i'm pretty sure the only matchup that falco mains switch to alts for is game and watch

 

[Rogue Pit]

Pit can reflect falco with 2 different things, pit can curve arrows, pit is faster, Pit has muiltiple jumps ie. a better recover and pit has a lot of mind games in his arsenal

 

[zamz]

ROB and G&W are most commonly considered Falco counters. I don't believe anyone is a true counter to Falco, but if such a thing existed, ROB and G&W would be the best possible characters to choose to demolish Falco.

MK has a slight advantage against Falco, but it's hard to call him a counter. Why? Because if you're choosing MK because you think he'll "counter" Falco and give you a strong advantage, you're gravely mistaken. MK users find Falco one of the most frustrating characters to fight. Falco users also find this matchup painful. This is a case of: "worst possible matchup in the history of SSBB." We're talking a complete snore of a fight, where absolutely nothing happens. It's a -painful- matchup for both characters, but I don't think that is grounds for considering MK a counter for Falco. Falco CAN compete with MK. It's just not fun at all =). It's slow,and Falco finds himself in an extremely defensive position with MK in an extremely offensive position. The ending result is typically both characters out of their comfort zone, with lots of camping and quick skirmishes hoping for a couple % lead + a gimpfest. Although MK does have a slight advantage, I don't believe this advantage is large enough to make him a true counter.

I won't comment on Zelda, because I've never had a single problem with her. For a counter, I'd expect someone of equal or lesser skill than me still being able to compete, but it's never happened. I've obviously never played a good enough Zelda to comment on this matchup.

As for Lucario, I'd say the match is dead even. He doesn't have a significant advantage over Falco. He's just a good character with strengths that outweigh his weaknesses. A good character does NOT equal a counter. A counter has qualities that make the matchup significantly disadvantaged for one side. There is no disadvantage for Falco, it's just a frustrating matchup for both sides.

I think people are getting 'counters' and 'characters they do not like to face' mixed up.

 

[Hawks go Caw]

Zelda kills my Falco. And Din's Fire is a completely viable answer. It can go through the reflector and and explode behind Falco making it usless. If you shoot Zelda in the beginning of the animation, it'll continue to go as far as possible until it explodes or reaches an object, so it's still an annoyance. In fact after you shoot her during the Din's fire, she recovers quick enough to pull out a second one and have two on screen. Not to mention it makes recovering even more difficult.

Her Usmash outprioritizes all your aerials and, for me at least, it's hard to DI out of.

Nayru's Love lasts a long time, is a good reflector and a solid attack as well.

Dsmash is uber-quick and very strong at higher percentages. It makes attacking close very difficult as Zelda can shield/spot dodge > Dsmash to get space.

High priority Ftilt and Utilt make the match even harder.

Also, I find her hard to spike because of her transformation. When she's recovering and gets in spiking range she'll see you coming and use her teleport in which case if you're too early you get hit, if you're too late you miss.

Oh, and she can't be chaingrabbed so you're going to have to work hard to get damage on her.

She's just a pain for my Falco. I go G&W against her.

Edit: Lucario also can't be chaingrabbed (from what i've read at least) and Meta Knight requires stricter timing to chain grab.

 

[Statistics]

I think people are getting 'counters' and 'characters they do not like to face' mixed up.

Well, you know how a good Falco pretty much can't lose to snake on a neutral stage? I'm looking for THAT kind of a counter. Or to be painfully specific, any characters that have 6:4 or better against him. If he doesn't have one then I'm wondering why Falco's not God Tier right below MK.

Oh, and she can't be chaingrabbed so you're going to have to work hard to get damage on her.

She's just a pain for my Falco. I go G&W against her.

Edit: Lucario also can't be chaingrabbed (from what i've read at least) and Meta Knight requires stricter timing to chain grab.

Play against Sethlon. Yes, Zelda can be chaingrabbed, at low percentages at least. Besides, I want to know if there's a character who CAN'T be chaingrabbed by Falco, assuming perfect execution.

 

[zamz]

Well, you know how a good Falco pretty much can't lose to snake on a neutral stage? I'm looking for THAT kind of a counter. Or to be painfully specific, any characters that have 6:4 or better against him. If he doesn't have one then I'm wondering why Falco's not God Tier right below MK.

In the Japanese tier lists, he is. He's actually second, right under Metaknight. But that's completely besides the point, Falco obviously has disadvantaged matchups. But if you're looking for a 'counter'--a character with a STRONG advantage against Falco--you're looking for ROB/G&W. A slight disadvantage is not a counter.

Most of the characters mentioned in this thread could be considered 'soft counters' to Falco. But I wasn't sure that's what you were looking for. I thought you were looking for strong counters...characters that have a significant advantage against Falco (significant enough to counter-pick when you know your opponent will choose Falco). Sorry about that!

Pit can reflect falco with 2 different things, pit can curve arrows, pit is faster, Pit has muiltiple jumps ie. a better recover and pit has a lot of mind games in his arsenal

-Falco has 1 reflector that can go through and hurt Pit while he's reflecting. Falco doesn't need two reflectors when he has a single reflector that gets the job done.

-Falco can SHDL his lasors. Every character has their 'kicks,' but a curved lasor is not a winning trait. You're listing off advantages of Pit, but I can do the same for Falco. This doesn't mean anything. Instead, explain exactly how Pit defeats Falco. Btw: Pit's lasors are slow and bulky while Falco's lasors are quick and--when shot in the air--almost lagless. Falco will out-spam Pit every time. Falco will also out-reflect Pit.

-Every character has mindgames, buddy.

-If pit was a real counter to Falco, you'd see Falco users SAYING SO. You'd see us struggling against him and complaining about it. We're not hiding Pit's greatness. No, we just don't have a problem with him. A Pit main probably won't convince Falco mains that they don't know their own character's weaknesses. You can think you dominate Falco across the board, and that's fine. But be aware that very few will agree with you.

 

[Statistics]

In the Japanese tier lists, he is. He's actually second, right under Metaknight. But that's completely besides the point, Falco obviously has disadvantaged matchups. But if you're looking for a 'counter'--a character with a STRONG advantage against Falco--you're looking for ROB/G&W. A slight disadvantage is not a counter.

Well there we go. I knew it! Falco's just too good...

Oh well, off to learn GayManWatch.

I asked because at a recent tournament (AZoneTwoStep) I was doing just fine with Snake, but then I met two REAL Falcos; SK92 and Sethlon. Both great players, both showing me that I haven't had real Falco practice. My other characters were no match: Fox & Pit.

Hopefully, after G&W, I'm done with learning counterpicks

 

[clowsui]

Meatyknight is nowhere near a counter for Falco...the matchup is 50/50 and is actually pretty boring. Unless you decide to play an offensive Falco which is absolutely ******** once you realize that you will get thrown off the edge and gimped if you're below the stage in any way. So yeah, Falco v Meta = NOT FUN which is why I go for Meta dittos =)

I forgot about Lucario...consider him as a "soft counter". It depends on how the other person plays Lucario...an offensive Cario is less difficult to deal with than the defensive Lucario.

Also Sir Lucario stfu and gtfo, Pit doesn't counter Falco.

EDIT: Oh and your anti counterable Metaknight is countered by Snake and DK.

 

[Blad01]

Counters :

- G&W

- Hard matchs (even) :

- Lucario
- Snake
- ROB
- Marth

- Wario
- Zelda

- Beaten by Falco :

- Everybody else (MK included).

 

[Gindler]

Yeah I don't think falco has any counterpicks, unless someone has a bucket or something that absorbs lasers into a ridiculously powerful attack.

 

[Keitaro]

I don't know what people think against DDD but I find him extremely hard to kill. On allisbrawl I only have 2 doozies. A G&W player Velocity "1-2" and a DDD player named Atomsk "0-4" I just can't seem to kill them early like I do to just about every other character. It's also impossible for me to beat M2K but that's obvious, lol!

Oh, and NJ is running crazy with Marths and boy are they hard. Laser camping works until they rush you and predict your forward b's.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

Mr.GaymanWatch is the only character who has a real advantage over him, Zelda, MK, R.O.B. and the other ones have only slight advantages, its well known that MK has a hard time against progectiles, Falco's Laser is the 2nd(or 1st) best projectile. Zelda isn't that much of a problem so as Lucario. Snake R.O.B.(maybe) have a slight disadvange over falco. Falco is top tier, 3rd or 4th best character in the game. IMO after Snake/MK and G&W.(maybe hes better than G&W )

 

[boss8]

mario FTW....

 

[BEES]

G&W is the hardest matchup. You need to be better than your opponent to some extent to win. Metaknight is the second hardest.

'Jump into the ****' characters like ROB, Pikachu, and Zelda are right after that, but it's difficult to say if they actually have an advantage.

Everyone else is even or at a disadvantage probably.

 

[J4pu]

I agree with Blade except I would add MK to the even level

and everybody else says ROB is a good counter, but i have no experience against a good ROB so I dont really know.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

lol Kirby is a counter to any space animal, i guarantee it 0_-

Friendly Falco vs Kirby match 1

Friendly Kirby cs Falco Match 2

 

[PhantomBrawler]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

Counters of Falco are MK,GW,and Zelda

 

[zamz]

lol Kirby is a counter to any space animal, i guarantee it 0_-

This is another case of a main claiming their character is a counter to our character. I know you'd like to think your main is a counter to [insert character here], but please. If your character was a true counter, we would know about it. We would complain about it. Fact is, there are other characters Falco needs to worry about. Kirby isn't on our list of worries. If you know Seth is going to choose Falco, you DONT pick Kirby to counter him. You pick Game and Watch. You pick someone else. You don't pick Kirby.

You're the first to even mention Kirby in this thread. Kirby has not had a big enough impact on Falco mains to be considered a true counter. Sorry.

 

[PhantomBrawler]

^QFT

not only is kirby not a counter for falco,but falco is a counter for kirby....sorry, you fail.

 

[~Switch]

Well, that thread isn't perfect, but the counters aren't that far off, kirby, is definitely not a falco counter.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

After playing PikaPika! a lot, I think Pikachu is a deceptively hard match-up. It's almost impossible to get grabs off on Pika, because of the nature of his projectile, it is exceedingly hard to camp back. Pika's CG is also stationary, and his Fair is a monster of priority. Thank God his down smash is no where near the same league as ROBs.

 

[homicidalrapist]

i find lucario and zelda the hardest fights cuz they can really gimp falco's recovery.

 

[iMeeHow]

Id say game and watch is probaly the biggest counter

 

[FEJunkie]

Game and Watch is easily the hardest match-up for Falco. His pressure game can really give the Falco some trouble. He also has an answer to alot of Falco's options and can edgegaurd him rather easily.

ROB is not as bad as G&W, but it's still hard for Falco due to ROB's range and his good edgegaurding game.

Zelda and maybe Pikachu are probably the only other characters who have an advantage, but not a big one, vs Falco. Everyone else generally goes even with or has a disadvantage to Falco.

 

[BEES]

lol Kirby is a counter to any space animal, i guarantee it 0_-

Friendly Falco vs Kirby match 1

Friendly Kirby cs Falco Match 2

There are a hundred of these. Candy loses in all of them, no matter what character he plays. It's pretty obvious that Gonzo is simply better. Same thing with the umpteen million Vericx vs Hiro videos. Hiro's just a much better player. You're not getting any reliable feedback about the character matchup from those.

 

[redgreenblue]

Falco counters are... hmm Game and Watch and Metaknight mostly. I've heard some use Zelda though.

 

[SpikeSpiegel19]

There are a hundred of these. Candy loses in all of them, no matter what character he plays. It's pretty obvious that Gonzo is simply better. Same thing with the umpteen million Vericx vs Hiro videos. Hiro's just a much better player. You're not getting any reliable feedback about the character matchup from those.

lol u dont know just how good Candy is. Number one Snake on the East coast. I'm willing to bet money on that.

Second he's the only Falco i can play against. If any of uall want to challenge me we can perhaps shed some light on this matchup. I will record the matches as soon as i get my camera back from Hova.

 

[Falconv1.0]

and pit has a lot of mind games in his arsenal

Another term for

"I'm lazy, I've run out of **** to say, insert buzzword here"

Anyways, G&W and ROB may give you some trouble, but even then Falco's match ups are fine.

You picked a very safe character, XP.

 

[SlashTalon]

Counters :

- G&W

- Hard matchs (even) :

- Lucario
- Snake
- ROB
- Marth

- Wario
- Zelda

- Beaten by Falco :

- Everybody else (MK included).

Completely 100% agree.

 

[SlashTalon]

lol Kirby is a counter to any space animal, i guarantee it 0_-

Friendly Falco vs Kirby match 1

Friendly Kirby cs Falco Match 2

I'm not doubting Candy's skill with other characters (or as a Brawl player in general), but He didn't use one Bair in either vid, and he Fair'd Waaaaaaay too much. He also either commited suicide or made a fatal mistake allowing you to win.

Kirby is also your main, and Falco is not Candy's

I dont see how that is proof of a counter.

 

[edde]

G&W... he can be chaingrabbed but his ridiculous power makes up for it + he can gimp falco easily and cant be camped
ROB... great gimper, camper and outpowers/outranges falco having a decent speed, not that tough though, its pretty beatable
MK... gimp king, his jumps make falcos bullets almost no challenge, MK is easier than G&W though
kirby... gosh, this guy's aerials can gimp falco easily, hes hard to CG, hard to camp and he both outranges and outprioritzes falco, this is a very tough one, maybe toughest
marth... hes pretty beatable and easy some times, but the gimp queen can effectively gimp falco
fox... faster, stronger, more range, better recovery and a better reflector... beat him with your CG, better jump speed and better projectile
olimar... his camp game outpowers yours by far, i think hes not chaingrabbable, he has the best grab game, falco has hard time gimping him and he is c-stick madness

those are toughest i can see so far

 

[zamz]

G&W... he can be chaingrabbed but his ridiculous power makes up for it + he can gimp falco easily and cant be camped
ROB... great gimper, camper and outpowers/outranges falco having a decent speed, not that tough though, its pretty beatable
MK... gimp king, his jumps make falcos bullets almost no challenge, MK is easier than G&W though
kirby... gosh, this guy's aerials can gimp falco easily, hes hard to CG, hard to camp and he both outranges and outprioritzes falco, this is a very tough one, maybe toughest
marth... hes pretty beatable and easy some times, but the gimp queen can effectively gimp falco
fox... faster, stronger, more range, better recovery and a better reflector... beat him with your CG, better jump speed and better projectile
olimar... his camp game outpowers yours by far, i think hes not chaingrabbable, he has the best grab game, falco has hard time gimping him and he is c-stick madness

those are toughest i can see so far

Again, you guys are getting 'matchups you struggle with' and 'counters' mixed up. Just beacuse you have a really good fox/kirby friend who is better than you and beats you a couple times does not make them a counter to Falco. A character's counter is not determind by any single video or group of friends.

lol u dont know just how good Candy is. Number one Snake on the East coast. I'm willing to bet money on that.

Second he's the only Falco i can play against. If any of uall want to challenge me we can perhaps shed some light on this matchup. I will record the matches as soon as i get my camera back from Hova.

So, you're going to tell us you beating one player twice with Kirby makes Kirby a Falco counter? Lol. No. There are videos of Kirby beating Falco .There are videos of Falco beating Kirby. There are videos of Yoshi beating Metaknight. Showing a video doesn't prove a character's countering potential.

I figure the mains of Falco should have a better idea about Falco's weaknesses than someone who doesn't main Falco. As a community, Falco does not struggle against Kirby. You might have a friend who struggles against Kirby, but that's specific to your friend only. You might be a good Kirby, congrats, and you might beat a lot of people because of it. But countering has nothing to do with people of DIFFERENT skill.

A counter merely suggests when two people of equal skill face each other, the counter character should dominate. From the looks of your videos, there's no way you could possibly suggest you two are of equal skill.